"Outing" pseudonymous writers

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Mr Flibble

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Ugh.

I'd been thinking RH's ten-plus years of trolling and blowing up online communities was just going to sink beneath the waves without so much as a ripple. Now I'm less sure.

In light of what was in that link, it doesn't deserve to sink. It deserves to be dragged screaming into the light of day so we can see what it is.

What is it about SFF do you think?

Some days I wish I'd stuck to writing romance, you know?

ETA: So after reading some more articles this afternoon...I knew RH was...polarising, but I was unaware of the extent of what went on, how relentless it was, and the depths it went to. So I shall revise my "I'll be cautious" to "will try to stay as far away as possible". I don't condone anyone wisher ill on her etc, but I understand the hate she has, ironically, caused to pour on her own head
 
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J.S.F.

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Have to admit, read through this thread with a morbid kind of curiosity. I had no idea who this person was--and she's certainly entitled to her opinions--but the depth of her vitriol went way beyond anything I expected. You don't like a book, say so, and move on. She took it to a whole other level.

This person has issues and is definitely on my 'no contact' list. Not that I'll ever be famous enough for her to take potshots at, but still...something seriously wrong here. As for outing her, well, that's a matter of debate. If exposing her hatred by this method is the only way to show her for what she truly is...complicated...that's all I'll say.
 

ULTRAGOTHA

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J.S.F., you don't have to be famous for her to go after you. Read the comments thread (yes, those words came out of my fingers in all seriousness) on Laura's post. There are very not-famous people who were targeted.
 

Amadan

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Wow, that rabbit-hole goes deep.

I just spent quite a bit of time reading Mixon's blog post, the comments, and the links.

In the past, I found RH a bit over the top, sometimes entertaining, and sometimes insightful. Also sometimes unnecessarily cruel, but I didn't have a lot of sympathy for thin-skinned authors.

I did not know about all the back-channel shenanigans, the lengthy history of stalking and harassing people across multiple platforms, and the cult-like acquisition of "followers."

At one time, I admit, I kind of found her snarkiness and her games amusing. Now, not so much - people have actually been hurt by her, to a degree I did not realize.

She's a significant reason why my attitude towards SJWs has hardened in recent months.
 

ULTRAGOTHA

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I would not dignify her conduct as Social Justice anything.
 

J.S.F.

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J.S.F., you don't have to be famous for her to go after you. Read the comments thread (yes, those words came out of my fingers in all seriousness) on Laura's post. There are very not-famous people who were targeted.
---

Just read it. Well, this person really has a major mad-on for anyone she perceives as being not to her taste...which appears to be much of the human race. And what the other poster said about the rabbit hole going deep...all true.
 

MacAllister

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Holy crap.

I'm a POC woman. I'm an American black woman with Native American ancestry. And I'm queer, if you need more points, and I have a mental illness, and I belong to a minority religion, because I guess in your world it's necessary to disclose all. And yeah, I've been defended by white women--not just now, but in 2009, when plenty of white women supported the voices of POC women during Racefail. White women supported me against the various white men who tried to take over SFWA. Did white women attack me, too? Sure. So have brown women. But white women supported me. This isn't the first goddamn time.

And yes, they're supporting me now, against RH, who attacked and silenced and threatened and blackmailed me.
 

Viridian

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Goddamn.

Thanks for the links, MacAllister.
 

Roxxsmom

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So there's this, tonight.

By way of disclosure, I've known Laura for nearly ten years. I like and respect and trust her, and she's one helluva good SF writer, besides.

I'd been thinking RH's ten-plus years of trolling and blowing up online communities was just going to sink beneath the waves without so much as a ripple. Now I'm less sure.

I've just been reading through this :(

It's really disturbing and it makes me scared of what's out there for aspiring writers. The anonymity of the web is clearly a two-edged sword. It can protect people and make it safer for them to speak out, to blog, to review and so on. But it also makes it easier for people to harass and attack others with impunity.

It seems pretty clear, though, that she wasn't just about snarky, mean reviews (which are something all writers have to deal with from time to time), but about a systematic attempt to derail some writers' careers by harassing and intimidating anyone who supported them. It also sounds like a number of people were silenced by these tactics, and she destroyed some online communities.

Another thing that's clear is that she didn't just "punch up." Many of her targets were writers just starting their careers, a disproportionate number of whom seemed to be other women, people of color, LGBT and so on.

I have to admit that I wonder if she is who she claims to be even now. Is she really just someone who is trying to make the social justice movement look bad? What if "she's" really someone (or a bunch of someones) who hates everything SJW stand for and are trying to make them look evil and irrational.

She's a significant reason why my attitude towards SJWs has hardened in recent months.

If so, it's working.

The thing to keep in mind is that many of the people she seems to have targeted are also concerned with social justice issues, and many of them are clearly not members of the white, male, racist, heteronormative establishment.

It's impossible to tell, I guess, what really is going on inside her head, or what her objectives were and are. Some people exist for the sheer joy of stirring up drama and trouble, and they just love having a cabal of mean girls (and bullyboys) swarming around them. It's not about any particular cause (they'll pick whatever they think is divisive or contentious, or likely to stir up feelings). I've run into people like this in gaming guilds and other forums. Usually they get themselves banned eventually, but sometimes they create rifts that are so deep that the organization in question doesn't survive. She seems to have been able to do this with much more skill and in a much further reaching way than one usually sees.
 
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Amadan

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I have to admit that I wonder if she is who she claims to be even now. Is she really just someone who is trying to make the social justice movement look bad? What if "she's" really someone (or a bunch of someones) who hates everything SJW stand for and are trying to make them look evil and irrational.


Even if she herself is some white dude running a "false flag" con (I kind of doubt that, but at this point, would not be shocked), what she has illustrated is that anyone who masters the jargon can tie everyone who's bought into it in knots. She destroyed communities who couldn't just tell her to stop being such an asshole for fear of "silencing a WOC" with a "tone argument."

Even now, she has defenders claiming she's a victim because some of the people she attacked are supposedly higher than her (assumed identity) on the privilege axis.

It's not like she's the only one who uses these tactics to win arguments by establishing who's more marginalized - she's just turned it into a particularly vicious and cynical game.
 

Mr Flibble

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Well if that isn't just the shit-crust topping on the shit cake

Something tells me the Bees pseud may disappear (to be replaced by another?). Because it's going to be hard for people to forget this.

ETA: When it was just the blog (known to me anyway) I thought, well she's a bit OTT...but who hasn't ranted about a book they didn't like? I may not have liked the style, but sometimes under the tide of rhetoric, she had a point.

Now I don't care what point she was making, and I wouldn't blame anyone for deciding not to have a damned thing to do with her. And still some people are defending her. How is that even defensible?
 
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badducky

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Something tells me the Bees pseud may disappear (to be replaced by another?). Because it's going to be hard for people to forget this.

The amount of mental stamina it takes to maintain multiple personas constantly for years would become, I suspect, a habit.

This person will continue in one form or another, and will be outed again and again. Trolling at this advanced, psychologically-damaged level is ever protean.

ETA: I have very dear friends who loved the RH blog, and ones who hated it. I long ago looked away. My only real concern is to prevent more victims of bullying in the future, and I see no way to do that without the involvement of actual police where laws can support that. International law is not concerned about bullying on the internet.
 
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ULTRAGOTHA

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I’ve seen at least one person subtweet a bit on how it would be nice to have this kind of scrutiny for the toxic straight white males in SF/F fandom. Implying, I think, that this sort of thing is being pursued more for a female Asian lesbian than it would be/has been for a straight white person.

While I agree to an extent (Harlan Ellison, and the twelve rabid weasels of SFWA, anyone?) I think that once comparable evidence of harm surfaced on people like Jim Frenkle and Renee Walling it was disseminated. No one compiled a collection of evidence on BS/WF/RH until after the evidence was very strong. So I don’t get the impression, in my admittedly privileged space, that she is being treated markedly worse due to her purported ethnicity, sex or sexual orientation. In fact, I rather get the impression Winterfox, at least, was allowed all kinds of inappropriate leeway because of her minority status. (I’m reacting to the evidence being presented now. I never had any interaction with this person to my knowledge in any of her personas. I once clicked on a link to a RH review and clicked away fast and never read her again.)

I’d love a spreadsheet of all toxic people to avoid in fandom. But I think that’s not actually desirable until some level of evidence is reached.
 

Mr Flibble

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I'll note that SFWA voted to kick Vox Day out, too.

Damn you woman, you beat me to it! :D Others get called out fairly often too.

That she's female/Asian/lesbian might account for a small portion of the vitriol. But tbh, when the level of trolling goes to this level, you don't need to go looking for spurious reasons to denounce her. They're right there, smacking you in the face (or they are now anyway). I don;t think she's being treated any worse because of who she is, but because of what she's done. And the fact that she befriended people as BEes while attacking them or their friends as RH.... even VD never pretends to be anything other than himself

If the Bees persona does disappear, I kinda feel sorry for any female Thai writer who breaks out in the near future.
 
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ULTRAGOTHA

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Yes, point taken.

But that wasn't so much because of his toxic presence (The 12 rabid weasles weren't kicked out as far as I know) as for the fact he misused a SFWA channel to attack a fellow member.
 

ULTRAGOTHA

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Oh yes. No spreadsheet needed for that, he spews it all over in public.
 

Amadan

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I’ve seen at least one person subtweet a bit on how it would be nice to have this kind of scrutiny for the toxic straight white males in SF/F fandom. Implying, I think, that this sort of thing is being pursued more for a female Asian lesbian than it would be/has been for a straight white person.


That was her argument, too, at least a few weeks ago when she was still tweeting - "Why is everyone piling on me and not on Harlan Ellison, etc."?

She got away with her stunts because she wasn't a straight white person. She'd never have gotten the approbation she did for calling people "illiterate fucks" and "racist cockstains" and calling for them to be set on fire if she wasn't (supposedly) a lesbian Thai woman attacking the "privileged."
 

Thomas Vail

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Probably because people have been piling on Harlan Ellison since the 50s, and unless something slipped under my radar, he hasn't done anything comment worthy offensive.

Lately. :D
 

ULTRAGOTHA

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I think assaulting the Guest of Honor on a live international broadcast at the Hugo Ceremony is pretty damned offensive.

If he never shows up in another fan space it will be too soon for me.
 

Thomas Vail

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It was also nearly ten years ago. Hence why I said, 'lately,' because he hasn't done anything in recent memory that'd have social media buzzing about his transgession. People are still rightfully calling him out for it despite the age of the complaint (and for so many other things even so - it's a long list), which just calls out RequiresHate on a particularly flat-footed and artless attempt at a dodge.

I would not dignify her conduct as Social Justice anything.
Indeed - she's just a bully who found a particularly good issue to hitch her wagon to. Given how often bullies do that with any issue, it's really a disservice to attribute any of her behavior to the rest of the cause luckless enough to have her latch onto it.
 
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Roxxsmom

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Even if she herself is some white dude running a "false flag" con (I kind of doubt that, but at this point, would not be shocked), what she has illustrated is that anyone who masters the jargon can tie everyone who's bought into it in knots. She destroyed communities who couldn't just tell her to stop being such an asshole for fear of "silencing a WOC" with a "tone argument."

I've seen other online communities where a clever, charismatic troll ran roughshod for a long time without flying a SJW flag.

Sorry, but I'm not going to start believing the playing field is level and that women, PoC, LGBT people, and the disabled don't face extra challenges just because this professional troll (who may or may not be what she claims to be--who knows, really) poisoned the pot by playing to the enhanced sensitivities of some.



Even now, she has defenders claiming she's a victim because some of the people she attacked are supposedly higher than her (assumed identity) on the privilege axis.

It's not like she's the only one who uses these tactics to win arguments by establishing who's more marginalized - she's just turned it into a particularly vicious and cynical game.
There are amazingly clever people out there who are really good at manipulating others through whatever means they can. It's one of the hallmarks of abusers, actually. The deleting posts and gaslighting victims thing is really, really chilling. Thank god for screenies. That's one thing the internet can give us that is less available in offline abuse. A refutation of that old, "I never said that, you're just making it up/mistaken/crazy" thing.

The behaviors she has exhibited also mesh with many of the hallmarks listed for antisocial personalities, though of course it's impossible for anyone, even psychologists, to diagnose someone they haven't met in person. It's possible she is deliberately imitating these "sociopathic" behaviors for other reasons. Maybe she thought/thinks it's creating an environment that's better for her own work by discrediting the competition (though it's interesting that she was doing this online trolling for so long before she got published. Though the RH blog popped out much more recently).

Or maybe she's one of those insufferable "queen bees" who can't stand to see other people getting attention and accolades for what she regards as her schtick.

Or maybe she's just evil and loves sowing discord and mayhem wherever she goes.

Who knows, really? Unless someone knows who this person really is, it's all speculation and all we can do is have "pet theories" that may or may not be right.

The online environment provides fertile grounds for this, not only because of its anonymity, but because it makes it possible for a person to connect with hundreds, even thousands, of others with the touch of a button.

The point is that this is very likely less about social justice than it is about her. The question is, will the community of writers who care about representation and social justice learn and move on, or will this become a toxic mire that drags everyone down with it?

One thing that's good to see is that there are plenty of people who do seem to be distancing themselves, and others who are coming forward.

I think assaulting the Guest of Honor on a live international broadcast at the Hugo Ceremony is pretty damned offensive.

If he never shows up in another fan space it will be too soon for me.

He's just suffered a major stroke, and has received an outpouring of support, here on AW and elsewhere. Interesting that once someone becomes ill or dies, no one seems to care what an asshole they were anymore. You automatically become a saint, no matter how many women you groped. Maybe future generations will be able to discuss his behavior more critically, though of course, there will be people who will insist that he was "just a product of his time" when it comes up (just as Lovecraft's racism and misogyny are excused today).
 
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ULTRAGOTHA

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He's just suffered a major stroke, and has received an outpouring of support, here on AW and elsewhere. Interesting that once someone becomes ill or dies, no one seems to care what an asshole they were anymore. You automatically become a saint, no matter how many women you groped. Maybe future generations will be able to discuss his behavior more critically, though of course, there will be people who will insist that he was "just a product of his time" when it comes up (just as Lovecraft's racism and misogyny are excused today).


I bit my tongue fingers so hard at that AW post-stroke thread. I did not post the You Tube video of his assault at the Hugos. I did not post the You Tube video of his assault at the Hugos. I did not post the You Tube video of his assault at the Hugos. I did not post the You Tube video of his assault at the Hugos.
 

MacAllister

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The thing about Harlan -- not to defend his groping Connie Willis, because it's indefensible -- is that he's a complicated mixture of good and awful, like a lot of other people. He's mentored a number of young writers over the decades, like Octavia Butler, who counted him as a friend, and helped pay for the educations of others.

RH is a deliberate construct -- there's no there, there.

I have no doubt, however, that the person or persons behind that construct are similarly complicated.

However s/he or they are also clearly willing to blackmail their "friends" with emails sent with an expectation of privacy and confidentiality. I keep waiting for the people to show up who will say, "Wait, I know this person -- yes, this was fucked up, BUT LOOK AT THIS good thing!" I use a pseud, too -- but there are tons of people who can and do tell those stories about me.

And all I hear from the pro-RH camp is "You're a bunch of racists! You just wanna whine about negative reviews! You're prolly just jealous of her talent!"

But what about Benjanun?

**crickets**

That's...troubling. Where are the real friends? Where are the people she's given rides to? Or who've crashed on her couch? Where are the people she's been a rock for? Where are the people who love HER, not her online performance rage?
 
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