[Agent] Mathew Ferguson

mathewferguson said:

Although I've stepped into agent work, I don't have a high opinion of the profession as a whole.

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I have to ask this: If you don't have a high opinion of the profession, why did you become an agent?

still alive said:

priceless1--at the risk of never being able to send you a query after this --I still have to dispute your take on doctors. I've been to doctors who have no patience at all with their patients. So why do so many go to them when they seem to loathe patients? Because they are superb at whatever their specialty is. Their attitude is trumped by their skill.

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Your analogy doesn't match the situation, however. This is more like a doctor who despises his own profession.

Or at least, that's what it sounds like to me. That's why I'd like to hear his reasons for getting into agenting.

still alive said:

I've been to doctors who have no patience at all with their patients.

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Yes, I knew this point was going to come up, and I should have clarified - or picked a better analogy. You answered your own question; attitude trumped by skill. Mat doesn't have any appreciable sales, so his skill is an unknown quantity at this point. I edited my original analogy, but let's get on with the bigger issue.

You suggest that Mat's attitude isn't a reason to write him off. My question to you is why? Isn't the idea to secure representation from someone who has agenting experience (which he hasn't), secured relationships with editors (which he hasn't), and has pride in his job (which he doesn't)? If he lacks respect for his own job, how do you think that will translate over to how well he represents and treats you?

What I'm hearing from you is, "well, I'm new and don't deserve any better." Pish, I say. I have signed many debut authors who went on to gather up fabulous reviews, handsome sales, writing awards, and movie deals. New only means that you haven't done this before. It's in no way a reflection of talent or lackthereof.

I wouldn't want to be represented by an agent who didn't have a high opinion of agenting, or who thought that agents didn't work very hard, or that they didn't work very long hours. Because to me that sounds like someone who has seen what he thinks is an easy job, and has stepped into it without any real experience of or training for the work required: which really doesn't bode well for his clients.

And to go off on a tangent, Still Alive: if you're looking for a UK agent to rep satire, just find out who represents Will Self. There's a good market here for such books, if they're good enough.

Mat is Australian and they have a laid-back attitude to almost everything.

That said, he has posted some questionable statements. I'm hoping he'll post again and clarify them.

Writing and the IRS view

This is a side-note - technically you could write off the trip, but at the end of the year, you have to show that you're making a diligent effort to make a living writing. In other words, make sure you have an income larger than your write-offs. Got audited for 2006, and they disqualified my Schedule C2, although as I argued, all of the income was "gifted" to me - they let that go, too. So, be very, very careful what you try to write off. My tax accountant was superb, handled us for many years, but that grave error cost him two clients (my husband is a professional musician).

-Maddie

still alive said:

priceless1, if what you're hearing from me is I'm new and don't know any better, you haven't been reading my postings.

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My apologies, Alive. Your questions indicated to me that you were somewhat unfamiliar with the industry.

However to answer you as to why I'd consider Mat: ... Mat appears to share my sense of humor...And so, if he can get an editor to even look at it, and can hype it, and maybe see that it at least has a chance, why shouldn't I take that chance?

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I appreciate your quandry, but getting editors to read someone's work hinges on the agent's ability and experience. He could love your work 'til the cows come home, but that won't mean a thing if he doesn't know what he's doing.

Mat says agenting so easy peasy that all he needs to do is pick up the phone and have the editor say, "sure, send it on over." What he doesn't realize is that we say this stuff all the time. That doesn't mean we'll stop what we're doing and actually read it. Chances are it'll go into a very large pile of queries.

So sure, he can tell you that Ms. Big Time Editor is "reading" your manuscript, but that's invariably not the case at all. As I said, agenting is about culminating relationships and creating a reputation. That is how agents get their client's stuff read.

It's just that you and I are on different sides of the fence.

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And that's why I post on AW - to give authors an inside view of how we think and operate.

it's hard to write the query letter--more especially the length--in which to "sell" it.

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But you need to do this when querying an agent, so I don't understand the problem. Writing a query is tough, but it's all a part of the business of writing. There are no shortcuts to this industry.

So in the meantime, what's to lose?

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Oh good gracious; you so do not want to know. In a word; everything. There isn't a horror story I haven't heard or seen.

I have to underline what Priceless said.

My agent has a solid reputation in the publishing business. She gets good deals for her clients, and when she submits my work it gets read and replied to within days--hours, even. Certainly within a week. Last time she sent one of my books out on its rounds it went to eight agents, four of whom replied within two days having read it in its entirety.

An acquaintance of mine has an agent who is starting out. Said agent has publishing experience--as a writer. To my certain knowledge the agent has misinterpreted at least three contracts, and so has lost her clients deals as a result; and it takes months for her clients' books to be looked at by the editors she submits to. The advances that she's negotiated for my acquaintance are less than half the ones my agent gets for me.

My agent works long hours, six days a week, and is spoken of with hushed voices. My acquaintance's agent is referred to as "who?"

Old Hack said:

Last time she sent one of my books out on its rounds it went to eight agents

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Your agent is sending your work to other agents? I haven't heard that one before!

Ooops. That's why I need an editor!

ShadowCat said:

Am I making sense? All I mean is you can hate (not have a high opinion) and love (be serious) something at the same time.

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If I were looking for an agent, I'd want someone who thought their profession did something worthwhile.

Maybe he wants to change what he doesn't like - not necessarily a bad thing.

misaditas said:

Maybe he wants to change what he doesn't like - not necessarily a bad thing.

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Then he should say that. No?

misaditas said:

Maybe he wants to change what he doesn't like - not necessarily a bad thing.

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Um, how is agenting bad?

Like I said in my previous post - it was a questionable statement. I'm not arguing that Mat should have clarified what he meant.

However the guy is Australian, which means he's in bed right now, so he can't answer his critics right now. I'm willing to wait to hear what he has to say.

priceless1 said:

Um, how is agenting bad?

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I didn't say it was! Please read my posts!

eqb said:

Then he should say that. No?

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Absolutely. Being able to communicate clearly is something I would look for in an agent. A dismissive attitude isn't.

Hi everyone! I'm going to answer everything in one long mega-post.

I'll start with ... yes, I hold opinions about publishing and agents that cause people to choke on their croissant. These opinions are based on evidence and experience and they do run directly opposite the myths built up around publishing, writing, editing and being an agent.

My first job was with an educational publishing company and it was there that I got the first hints of the difference between the way people say publishing is and the way it actually is. I had read every book I could find on publishing and writing. I had read every website and forum and studied the careers of every writer/editor/publisher/agent that I could. I had bought into the myth somewhat. I realised that publishing was its own little secret society with rules and structures and the only way in was to play along. So I did. I got a terrible job waaaaay down on the totem pole at the educational publishing company because I knew that I only had to get my hand stamped. Once I was inside the secret society I could move to another publisher.

I was right.

I spent a year with the educational publisher and then moved over to Funtastic Publishing as an editor. This is where my idea of what publishing was really got shredded. First up - editors don't read query letters. Huh? But there are all those sites on how to write a killer query letter! So? Editors read the manuscript itself. They don't really care what you have to say about your manuscript and they don't care what you've done before. If the manuscript is decent then your query letter is read. All those websites and books and all those people online stressing out over their query letter -- what a waste of time and effort.

Then came the agents. Now I was an editor I had the opportunity to meet a lot of agents and oh boy, did I get to meet some smiling sharks there. I also got to meet those agents who have been in the business for twenty years ... and have never heard of an e-book. Licensing - what's that? An interstitial flash animation of the main character to be sold to ABC television - gah?

I did get to meet some nice agents and a whole lot of incompetent ones and a whole lot of really old ones who might have been someone once but now the game has changed and they were coasting along on their previous glory. If an agent scoffs at e-books, they have no business being an agent. If an agent can't name three ways a children's character can be licensed, they have no business being an agent!

I remember the old-school been around since the start agent who took the standard contact and didn't alter anything. Didn't even try for more money. She had either no idea or no interest in the welfare of her client ... or couldn't understand modern publishing. Yes, it is possible for a publishing company to sell books to a subsidiary of itself at one cent per copy and the author royalty is based on this figure and yes you do need a specific clause forbidding it! Yes, it is possible for a publishing company to be linked into a multinational network and make sales in Lithuania and you do need a clause to cover this.

I studied the agents I met the same way I had studied publishing. They had time to get out of the office for a coffee so clearly they weren't reading manuscripts every day all day. Some of them had assistants who were slowly being ground into pulp. I got to know all their assistants and had conversations with these wannabe agents. Ah, so you do all the work while the agent does the schmoozing? Tell me more. Ah, so you actually wrote all those notes on the contract and the agent simply delivered the verdict. Tell me more.

I came to know and understand the people I worked with. There are myths that exist simply to justify taking that 15 - 30%. Myth: agents need to have superhuman abilities to work the hours they do. Truth: agents work standard hours. Myth: agents put in incredible amounts of work in effort to secure a publishing deal. Truth: agents call publishers, send in material, have coffee at a meeting and talk about it. Myth: there is deep secret complex knowledge that only agents know. Truth: it is a fairly normal job, like being a salesperson who knows how to edit.

So there was the myth of agent work and then the observed reality. Some assistants were crushed under hard labour, others were cruising along under a brand name. It wasn't as the web/books told it.

But don't dare say the Emperor is wearing no clothes! All middlemen talk up their efforts because they are trying to justify taking a percentage. But there are jobs where the effort (a phone call) does not match the result ($10K advance). Part of the magic of agents is that people who are not agents also buy into the myth and start defending it also!

Publishing isn't the way the web presents it either. Blogs that purport to tell "the truth" about publishing are often laughably misguided. When I read a site that claims a query letter is vitally important, I start to laugh. No, the quality of your manuscript is vitally important. The story is the only thing that matters. Not your font, not your spacing, not your query letter. The. Story.

Working in publishing isn't some secret society. It is a job that is within the capabilities of most people. That is one of the key things about jobs: they are within our capabilities. We go to work and we can accomplish the work. We may be sometimes stretched and there are people who can't do certain jobs but on the whole, they are within our capability. Editors are not sacred beings who need to be sucked up to. They are people who love books and writing and want to bring beautiful things into the world. Agents are not slaving away with superhuman effort. They are working a fairly normal job that does require some specialised knowledge.

Moving on the next big myth: agents and editors are buddies. Friends even. They develop warm working relationships and this will get that query to the top of the pile. Oh my what a load of b.s. that one is.
Publishing is not the way it used to be. Agents are not hanging out with editors and there are no grand scandals back in New York. Publishing is a cut-throat business. Every single publisher is looking for the next Harry Potter (for example) and they will take a call from anyone who says they are an agent. They are desperately trying to get the big books, to find the new authors and lock them into contracts, to find those book-movie-theme park ride titles. It is not cups of tea and well yes chaps I do quite enjoy the protagonist's journey. It is marketing and sales and licensing and international opportunities and book to film, book to animation, book to lunchbox, book to television series. Publishers hide what they are developing even as they seek to uncover their competition's new list. Publishers directly take successful books and then seek out people to create read-alikes. They steal formatting and cover design. It. Is. Not. A. Friendly. Industry.

A part of this frenzy is the churn. Publishers churn. Editors churn. Salespeople appear and disappear. If an editor can't bring in the big money then they are out. It isn't enough to be able to fix up the grammar - an editor must be able to find new work and bring it to the company. This is why editors will meet with almost anyone. This is why junior editors will meet with almost anyone. This is why editors do skulk around writing sites and check out e-books and go to writing groups and lie about what they do for a living - they want to find the next big thing.

Let's go back to the myth though. Editors and agents have warm working relationships. Oh, doesn't it sound nice? Oh, doesn't it sound like someone trying to justify taking 15% would say to you? Agents are claiming a secret connection - a special connection that you as a writer cannot possibly make. This special relationship is worth 15%. Really? Editors change with such frequency that the idea is ludicrous. The churn and the expectations of profit have obliterated ye olde industry of publishing and replaced it with a hungry desperate one.

Let's go next to the apprenticeship myth. The only way to be an agent is to work at an established agency for years. Or to put it more accurately: the only way to be an agent is to slave away at an agency for years and after building up a lot of money for that agent who has promised you that one day you'll be a partner in the agency you realise it is never going to happen and so you head out on your own.
There is a package of skills one needs to be an agent, an editor, a publisher and a salesperson within publishing. They are essentially identical. One must know how to edit. One must know how to discern great books from merely good books. One must know how to pitch. One must understand contracts. One must feel comfortable talking to strangers.

That's it. Not too difficult really. This is why editors can become agents and publishers become agents and agents become editors and agents become writers ...

On to my opinion of the agenting profession. Yes, I can understand how it appears strange that I have a very low opinion of agents in general and then I am working as an agent. You see, I have many freelancer friends due to being a freelancer myself. Writers, editors, artists and illustrators and almost all of them have had the opportunity to meet up with agents. Agents who almost always lie and brag and are completely unscrupulous. They promise big but deliver little. They talk about agenting as though it were the most difficult job in the world and there is no way that poor little illustrator could possibly survive that big bad harsh world out there. They offer things like taking 40% for use of a letterhead. They hand over contracts that give the agent RIGHTS to material! Or they are simply clueless.

There are good agents. I have met them. They understand their market and what they are trying to do but they are far outweighed by the bad agents. This is why sites like Absolute Write exist. My view of what is a bad agent goes deeper than simply shifty behaviour. I repeat: if an agent scoffs at an ebook, they have no business being an agent. If your agents cannot tell you what the acronym SEO stands for, they have no business being an agent. If your agent doesn't know what a torrent is. If your agent doesn't know what an interstitial is. If your agent doesn't know that a children's character can be illustrated and licensed to appear on a tote bag for sale on the web to Americans ... they have no business being an agent. If they are not at least attending a licensing fair, they have no business being an agent. You get the idea. It is not enough to know the standard picture book length. One must know all the opportunities that exist in the world and know how to access them.

I became an agent because I love creative work and want to push it into the world. I want to find the picture book that becomes an animated series. I want to find the adult fiction book that spreads around the world. I have a deep and abiding love for creative pursuits and I want to spend all my time in this world. I have met so many people burned by bad agents that they give up or simply stick to their little website and don't look at more opportunities. I want to believe that it is possible to be an ethical agent and a good agent at the same time. I also want to push out those old agents who have kept Australian publishing in particular locked down and stagnant because they have no idea what Wordpress is.

To sum up my agent experience ... I do actually have it. I was simply doing it for free. I've negotiated contracts, put together concept documents, made the phone calls, gotten the work and I've done that all for free. When I was a freelance editor who worked for pay I also edited books for free on the side. That doesn't mean that experience has no value. I also did manage $10 million of books for two years and all that that entails. Contracts, negotiation, pitching, deals ...

Wow, long response! Moving along ...

It is incredibly easy for anyone to "hang out a shingle" as the cliche goes and call themselves an agent. Many websites have very skimpy "about" sections. A lot of these agents are really fronts for vanity publishing or fee-based terrible editing. For those that are not, I don't understand how they get any books published. No experience working in a publishing company and they expect to know what to say? No experience pitching a book and they think they can do it? Hmm.

If you have had this experience however then it isn't all that hard.

I'm a bit of an anomaly within my industry anyway. I'm an editor who can write. Or I'm a writer who can edit. Or I'm an editor who can publish. I don't think someone can be a good editor without being a good writer. I don't think someone can be a good writer without being a good editor. This is why many writers were schoolteachers or copywriters in their life. I'm a writer who can agent. And an agent who can write. And an agent who can edit.

Finally, regarding myths, part of the code once one steps into publishing in some way is an unspoken agreement to continue to spread the myth. Agents slave away all hours of the day and night! Query letters really do matter! Publishing companies who say they don't accept unsolicited manuscripts really don't accept them! Being an agent is the most difficult job ever created! All of these myths are not true and I maintain this not because I'm wet behind the ears or have no experience but because I have a lot of experience and have seen the levers behind the curtain. Writers who get rejected also buy into the myths of an arcane industry that does things for its own dark purposes because that is a better answer than "no, your work is terrible". They would rather believe they can't sell a book because the publishing industry is some mysterious flighty creature than believe it is a standard industry like any other and they simply were not good enough this time.

Query letters are vital! No ... your manuscript quality was vital and you can't sell your book because it isn't good enough.

Agents work superhuman hours and this is why I haven't got a response! No ... your manuscript quality isn't good enough and they've put your work in a pile to be responded to sometime in the next six months.

Agents and editors are best buddies and this is why an agent is worth 15%! No ... they are not friends and most times an editor has never spoken to that particular agent before. They are worth 15% but for other reasons.

cheers,
Mat

Fact: publishing obviously runs far different in Australia than the US and UK.

priceless1 said:

Fact: publishing obviously runs far different in Australia than the US and UK.

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Ah, special pleading. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading

No specific response but rather a "fact" that states that Australia is a special case. What applies in Australia does not apply in the US and UK.

I contend that there are no "obvious" differences in publishing between Australia, the US and UK.

From my experience, the UK care a lot more about content than the US. At a certain point, the US publishers stop working on on improving the work and focus on improving the marketing.

The US publishing industry is a lot more innovative than the UK or Australia but I put that down to the US being a culture exporting country.

The biggest differences are of scale. The US market is some 300 million. The Australia market is 21 million.

Could you expand on your "fact"?

mathewferguson said:

Could you expand on your "fact"?

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Goodness; where to begin.

First up - editors don't read query letters.

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Here in the US, we most certainly do read query letters. Every day. The query letter is the agent's or author's pitch. Based on the pitch, editors ask for partials or fulls. If a query letter isn't up to standards, we will never even see the manuscript.

Your description of agents differs greatly from the agents over here. You make them sound like the majority are little more than bumbling fools. That isn't what you'd find over here. Of course, there are ineffective agents who are vastly undereducated, but they aren't the standard.

Truth: agents work standard hours. Myth: agents put in incredible amounts of work in effort to secure a publishing deal. Truth: agents call publishers, send in material, have coffee at a meeting and talk about it. Myth: there is deep secret complex knowledge that only agents know. Truth: it is a fairly normal job, like being a salesperson who knows how to edit.

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That isn't the case here in the US, and I know a few UK agents who would say the same about their country. I think it's assumptive to make sweeping generalizations about all agents and all publishers when your sphere of experience hasn't reached beyond Australia's borders.

You've only just begun your own adventure into the agenting side of publishing and have only managed to come up with your personal opinions of how the industry works. Talk to me in six months. If, as you insist, this silly game of agenting and publishing is as easy as a phone call, then I'll expect to read about your many large sales. Until then, it's all pretty much conjecture and hyperbole.

In the US, agents and publishers (or at any rate, publishers that accept unagented submissions) certainly do read query letters. If your query doesn't make the grade, your ms. probably will never be seen. Not so in the UK, where a simple covering letter is usually all that's necessary--and I would suspect Australia, with its much smaller book market, is similar. But please don't tell US writers that query letters aren't important--because over here, they really are.

- Victoria

priceless1 said:

Goodness; where to begin.

Here in the US, we most certainly do read query letters. Every day. The query letter is the agent's or author's pitch. Based on the pitch, editors ask for partials or fulls. If a query letter isn't up to standards, we will never even see the manuscript.

Your description of agents differs greatly from the agents over here. You make them sound like the majority are little more than bumbling fools. That isn't what you'd find over here. Of course, there are ineffective agents who are vastly undereducated, but they aren't the standard.


That isn't the case here in the US, and I know a few UK agents who would say the same about their country. I think it's assumptive to make sweeping generalizations about all agents and all publishers when your sphere of experience hasn't reached beyond Australia's borders.

You've only just begun your own adventure into the agenting side of publishing and have only managed to come up with your personal opinions of how the industry works. Talk to me in six months. If, as you insist, this silly game of agenting and publishing is as easy as a phone call, then I'll expect to read about your many large sales. Until then, it's all pretty much conjecture and hyperbole.

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Perhaps I should be less modest about my experience and accomplishments but I am Australian and we don't usually bignote ourselves.

I will say this ... I'm not making sweeping generalisations about all agents and all publishers. My experience does reach beyond Australia's borders. I'm not beginning my "adventure" into the agenting side of publishing. I've been on the agent side for about three years. I've simply made it official and started collecting money for it.

I disagree with you on query letters. You sound as though you are talking about the next level of absurdity - the query letter for the query. Who does such a thing? Query letters travel with partials. They don't travel alone.

I don't think agenting is "a silly game". I simply refuse to accord it some holy position.

victoriastrauss said:

In the US, agents and publishers (or at any rate, publishers that accept unagented submissions) certainly do read query letters. If your query doesn't make the grade, your ms. probably will never be seen. Not so in the UK, where a simple covering letter is usually all that's necessary--and I would suspect Australia, with its much smaller book market, is similar. But please don't tell US writers that query letters aren't important--because over here, they really are.

- Victoria

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I still respectfully disagree.

The work is the only thing that is important. Not the query letter, not the margins, not the writer's background as a zookeeper or whatever other bit of marketing fluff might be available.

The query letter is only important as a barrier to filter out wannabe writers. Paper based submissions serve the same purpose. By making it difficult to submit material for consideration, only the truly dedicated will jump through the hoops. This, in theory, gets rid of the writer who completes their first draft and then finds an email address to send it to.

I've seen the "query for the query" and look forward to the next ridiculous iteration: agents who work on submitting your work to agents. Then there will be agents who submit to the agents who submit work to agents. What fun. I suppose those terrible and useless manuscript appraisal businesses are essentially working in this area already.

My advice for US writers who come across agents insisting on the query for the query: find someone else.

mathewferguson said:

Ah, special pleading. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading

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Wikipedia is not a reliable source, and should not be referenced.