The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

SC Harrison · Dec 3, 2005

I once said I would never do this, but...

I'm pretty sure she won't mind me posting this:

To the President of Pa and the entire support team,

I would like to start by asking why you would send me this. Do you truly think that I am stupid? I am asking this in regards to what you said:

quote: "With the holiday season now upon us, this is the time to thank those bookstores. Therefore we are offering them a special discount that we are also making available to any individual, our own authors included, who consider this the ultimate book buying (and giving!) season:

25-50 copies of any book title: 40 pct discount;
51-100 copies: 45 pct discount;
101 or more copies: 50 pct discount.

How is this a special discount. This is the same discount you offer to the bookstores regularly. Only problem is that bookstores do not purchase 1 book in 25 or more. Usually it is done in six at a time at the very most. Now maybe if this would be the standing discount that once a company as a whole or author has purchased 25 books this will be your permanent discount, or once you have purchased 101 of this particular book we will offer a permanent 50 % discount. Now that sounds more legitimate than what you are proposing above.

Asking a bookstore to make the risk of ordering 25 at one location for the particular discount is a risk that any intelligent company would turn down. You may print thousands of books but your printing them does not make money for other companies. The only way you will ever make it to the top of the Traditional publishers is if you clean up your acts and stop being dishonest to your clientele... the authors.

Why do you send me this crap when you BANNED me from your author board for offering to fax you a copy of the letters that I get from Ingrams or Barnes and Noble? Are you really so scared of all us authors learning the truth for ourselves? That PA, as a company, is there to pretend to fulfill our dreams of being traditionally published when in reality PA is the pro at SHATTERING the authors dreams and hearts. What I mean by that is that through your business schemes you lock a persons book, dream, and life accomplishment or story into a contract for 7 years, knowing all along that on your end of the bargain you will do the very minimal to produce a book with cover. Now to define minimal... The bargains (so called, in reality shady or misleading discounts as the one in your letter below and mentioned above,) Editing (or lack of), The promoting of our books is left to us, Sending out review copies (It is like pulling teeth from a lion that is awake and alert.)

I was never a PA basher, but I have learned through my experiences with you, including one very illegal act on your part of removing my book from the market completely without my permission (I have the proof still. You removed it without even looking into the matter at hand to cover your butts when it reality that was illegal... and for that alone, I should have received my rights back. But I tried to give you a chance to prove yourselves bigger than you are.) That you and your company are out for #1 PA and will do all you can to make a buck without so much as a consideration to the fact that you could actually be honest and reputable lifting the industry to a completely new level. One where PA actually helps the Author become successful, PA offers great deals to bookstores helping them to make the money they deserve, and thus pushing PA to the top where they could belong.

I won't even begin to step on the issue of book prices and the royalties you offer. You know and I know that you have a real hum dinger of a program running there. Hope your holidays are filled with your conscience running miles a minute knowing what you are truly doing.

You know, it would be nice to get the rights back to my book, but it truly does not matter... You don't have it forever. Besides, I am writing some excellent pieces of work that will be published by a true traditional publisher. When my name gets out there, and people ask me... Who should I go through and who should I stay away from... I will always tell the truth. I will tell them of the experiences I have had with your personally and I will direct them to sites of many other authors that have been spit on by you too. You underestimate the power of WORD OF MOUTH... and that will be your demise as a company.

Sincerely,

CJ Wilkes
Daddy, I Forgive You

P.S. You are not the only ones reading this. I have sent it on to my list of friends. Let the truth be known... and you won't be able to twist my words here because there are several copies of this going around if one should ask. For those of you that read this you may post it or pass it on. These are my true feelings and I have nothing to hide. The question is what is PA hiding from you... think about it before signing the dotted line!

CJWilkes · Dec 3, 2005

No... I don't mind you posting it. You may post it where ever you choose or forward it. Thank you for posting it here, I sent it on to a few who sent it on to a few more... etc., but I truly don't mind.

Thanks again.

roach · Dec 3, 2005

A week or more ago Xlibris went about spamming people with their services. (I received one of their e-mails as an "author" and got a good giggle out of it.)

It was suggested elsewhere to complain to the ISP that sent the spam out for Xlibris and from what I heard that ISP ended up closing down Xlibris's account.

Soooo....there's a part of me that thinks perhaps those like CJWilkes who received this e-mail could send a copy of it along with a complaint to the abuse address at whoever the ISP is that it was sent out through.

This might be an exercise in futility if the ISP is owned by Clopper (isn't he the one who used to run an ISP?). But you never know until you try.

Ken Schneider · Dec 4, 2005

And the wheel continues to turn.

The sad truth is, C.J., that a thousand others have written a letter just like yours. It may help you vent, but it will end there.

P.A. will continue to lie,steal and cheat their way along until someone with the law behind them gives a rat's a$$ about how they operate.

I can say one thing for those lurkers who want to bash those who speak against P.A.'s practices, and it is this. You don't know what you're are talking about when you spew ignorant messages on the P.A. board.

I have a book with your lousey publisher. So, I can't be jealous of you. I know what the contract says, but, you don't know what the wording means.

Let the air out of your over inflated, collective chests, and take a good look at what you've gotten yourself into.

And by the way, if you purchased any of your own books, you paid to publish.
Its called vanity in reverse.

P.A. and their rah, rah message board hyped you up, didn't it?

And you bought books, just what P.A. wanted.

Bufty · Dec 4, 2005

I wonder how many will read this and stop and think for a moment.

Uh, hi. I am a new author, and I'm only thirteen. My book is going through the editing stage right now and I'm dying for it to move on to the next stage. I'm literally checking my email every day to see if there's something there from PA. I just hope it isn't too long before I finally get to hold the finished product in my hands!
_________________
Prepare for the Worst
Hope for the Best

SC Harrison · Dec 4, 2005

Bufty said:
I wonder how many will read this and stop and think for a moment.

At least she put together an entire post without misspelling or misusing any words, which sets her apart from a depressingly large percentage of people in this world who want to be published.

Good girl. Now remember: stay in school, don't do drugs, don't chat with any perverts on the Internet, and please don't ask your parents to buy a big batch of your books for your fourteenth birthday.

Ken Schneider · Dec 4, 2005

SC Harrison said:
At least she put together an entire post without misspelling or misusing any words, which sets her apart from a depressingly large percentage of her fellow authors.

Steve, old buddy. Our fight is not with the authors, but P.A.

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, but, think about how you would feel if you were lurking, instead of posting.

yer pal, Ken

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Dec 4, 2005

This won't last long...

... but I saved it in html if anyone wants the whole thing (awfully long - in more ways than one!) posted to the thread for posterity:

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=8694

postshy · Dec 4, 2005

To: CJ Wilkes and SC Harrison....

Thank you. Maybe as more of you tell your story, more PA lurkers etc. reading this Board will realize that we DO have books published with PA. We are PA authors sitting on our books frozen in ice for seven years, unless we accept an "amended contract" designed only to extend our imprisonment.

PublishAmerica take note. You are shooting yourselves in the "metaphorical" foot over and over again. We WILL NOT take the abuse forever, even if you take to writing your own letters of praise on your PAMB about how great you are. We may have been fools to sign with you, but we are growing wiser by the minute.

And as far as CJ Wilkes being looked on as a spammer. I strongly disagree. If she is a spammer, then what is PA? I am constantly receiving their deceitful e-mails trying to persuade me to fall for their latest scheme. That is spam.
I, and many other "UNHAPPY" authors have asked them to desist, but they are still doing it. I will join any campaign designed to have this stopped. The only reason I even accept their e-mails is because I hope one day they will develop a conscience and pay me the money they have admitted owing me.

I heartily agree with CJ Wilkes, they may keep my book as long as they stay in business (which, hopefully, won't be for much lnger). In the meantime I have moved on and am talking to "real" publishers and I will use a different name if I ever make it into the marketplace, so holding my book will do you no good, PA. It just shows how spiteful and self-centred you really are.

Congrats, CJ Wilkes! That took courage.

postshy/Roberta

aruna · Dec 4, 2005

It's not quite clear from that first post which ofhis books is PA - it seems to me that the first one WASN'T PA, but his later work IS? A strange decision to make, if so.

postshy · Dec 4, 2005

Apologies, Roach...

I misread your post. Yes PA is sending the spam, not CJ Wilkes. And if hers was spam, it's the kind of spam I like.

Come on authors, let's get PA, before they take any more of us down. AW is behind us all the way and are a great help to those hurting after PA's treatment.

Sorry Eric, I knocked you in the past. You have more than made up for your former opinions by your recent posts. Maybe with a few other well-known names, such as Dee Powers etc, on our side who have all gone through the Author Mill (PA), we can make a difference to those naive souls contemplating dreams of becoming authors through PA. You won't.

postshy/Roberta

SC Harrison · Dec 4, 2005

Ken Schneider said:
Steve, old buddy. Our fight is not with the authors, but P.A.

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, but, think about how you would feel if you were lurking, instead of posting.

yer pal, Ken

Point taken. I have edited my post to make it (possibly) less hurtful.

In an effort to explore, a little deeper, my motivations for bringing up this (apparently) touchy subject, I have some observations:

While the occasional misuse of words is common and does not (necessarily) indicate a lack of intelligence or creative ability, it may reflect a lack of depth in a person's vocabulary. Whether this limitation would (or should) keep an individual from pursuing and achieving success as a writer is debatable. I think we can all agree that good verbal skills are a plus, and leave it at that.

For the sake of argument, let's construct an imaginary writer, and give him/her below average skills in grammar, spelling, etc. Our imaginary writer has a story they want to tell, and they believe it is interesting enough to entertain a lot of people. Our writer constructs a query letter which has some flaws they are unaware of, and sends it to a literary agent, a well-known publisher, and PublishAmerica. I don't even need to finish this, but I'm going to.

The only positive response he/she gets (and it's a quick one) is:

Congratulations! We've decided to give your book Why I Dropped Out Of School the chance it deserves!

Thus beginning another in a series of relationships based on absolutely nothing but unrealistic hope. By the time the agent and/or well-known publisher do respond with whatever form of rejection they choose to employ, the quality of the manuscript is no longer in question; whatever skills our writer does have are "good enough", and do not need any honing. As long as our writer maintains a mistaken confidence in his/her work, buying books and selling them is a viable (and controllable) method for furthering their new career as an author.

It's been said here (and I agree) that pinpointing a specific author's mistakes, without an invitation to critique, is insulting and potentially counterproductive. It is also (often) a self-serving exercise, merely to showcase the critic's superior knowledge. While this behavior is often tempting, it is rarely (if ever) honorable. I'd like to say I have never done this, but rewriting history is best left up to politicians and the clergy.

Jean Marie · Dec 4, 2005

Ken Schneider said:
Steve, old buddy. Our fight is not with the authors, but P.A.

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, but, think about how you would feel if you were lurking, instead of posting.

yer pal, Ken

What Ken just said w/ one additional point-we're talking about a kid here, Steve.

BTW, where the hell are this kids parent(s)? Shame on them and double shame on PA for taking advantage of a child-sick, evil bastards

they don't care who they rake over the coals-they should hang for doing this to a child...PublishAmerica=Evil, Rotten Criminals

I honestly hope wee willie gets his whirly rotor stuck you know where for this-sorry, Jenna, I get crazy when I see children hurt, I can't deal w/ it

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Dec 4, 2005

Is a thirteen year old legally able to sign a contract?

PVish · Dec 4, 2005

It's too late to help this enthusiastic author, but maybe some others can be saved.From the PAMB "Marketing Ploys":

I see many on here that don't care about the money, they just want to get their message out there and that is great. I do not write for the money, I write because that is what I am but my passion for writing is so strong that this is what I want to do full time so this book is very important to me. Where I do not expect to "get rich" off of this first book I do expect it to open up doors for the future to put me in a position to see my goal someday in the near future. So, I was not willing to take any chances on this one.

Oh, dear. You took a chance on PA. though. PA will not let you open doors to the future. They slam the door shut for 7 years.

You wanted marketing ploys so here is mine. I have hired a professional publicist. All of the contracts were signed, sealed and delivered and they were paid about a month ago and we are now in the planning stages awaiting a release date. I then looked at about a million web sites and decided what I wanted and didn't want. Being a writer I wrote in great detail what all I wanted to have on my site and am very excited about it. I then went out and found the web designer that could make it happen for me. With all of the detail and special effects going into my site it will be another month or better before I will see it up and running but I have time. My book will probably not be released until around summer 2006 so time was the least of my issues, I want perfection.

With PA, you don't get perfection.

Yes, all of this cost a lot of money. I will be the first one to say that this was not a cheap venture but my reasoning was that I am investing into myself. I have 401k, stocks and little investments in other things running all of the time. This time I took my hard earned money and invested it in myself. I believe in my work and I believe in me and the only way that I am going to see my goals is to get out there and get-her-done!

But PA doesn't believe in you. PA doesn't invest in you.

I realize that many have little to no funds to do what I have done but to those that do this is who this post is for. If you believe in yourself and your work invest your own money in you. Get help if you aren't a marketing professional. Since I hired this firm I am learning daily the ins and outs. I am going through media training on how to give the best interviews. They are absolutely wonderful and extremely supportive. I am honnored that they even accepted me as a client (they don't accept just everyone that has the money). It helps to have professionals in the industry that believe in you to support you and guide you through all of this. But, just because you hire someone does not mean that your job is over. I am still out there looking for ways to promote my book as well. They are great about giving me tips on the homefront and little tips here and there but a lot of the ideas have come from me as well. The work doesn't stop, not ever I am finding out, lol...

Anyway, just wanted to address a topic that I haven't seen on here. I know for many this isn't a possibility but there are some that it is and those are the ones that I wanted to address here. If you found out that you could buy shares of Walmart stock for 25 a share you would jump on that because you believe that Walmart will be around for a long time and earn you money. So if you believe in yourself why not invest in you?

If you believe in your work, don't give it to PA. Don't waste money publicizing a book that PA will prevent bookstores from ordering.

Sheesh!

rekirts · Dec 4, 2005

Is a thirteen year old legally able to sign a contract?

Not likely. I expect a parent would have to sign as well.

roach · Dec 4, 2005

postshy said:
I misread your post. Yes PA is sending the spam, not CJ Wilkes. And if hers was spam, it's the kind of spam I like. Come on authors, let's get PA, before they take any more of us down. AW is behind us all the way and are a great help to those hurting after PA's treatment.

NP, Roberta. I probably wasn't as clear as I could be.

Again, I think that if people are getting spam from PA it's time to fire up the old e-mail clients and send spam reports out. I don't know how to parse e-mail headers to find out who to send the complaints to. Perhaps someone else here?

Lady of Prose · Dec 4, 2005

According to "PA" policy anyone under 18 must have parental signature and they are not to post on the boards unless 18. I haven't noticed anything on the boards that says that has changed.

All of the above was in debate when I first arrived on the PA boards -- one of the rah, rah, PA authors complained enough to PA about one of the young authors who made some decent posts and had better skills than the complainer, until they kicked the young man off. He came back recently, now of legal age, but is fed up with PA. He is in college and plans on sending future books to "regular" publishers.

Jean Marie · Dec 4, 2005

STOP PA SPAM-ADDY

[email protected] Dave K put that addy up a while ago to send spam to. I use and it seems to work

rekirts · Dec 4, 2005

SC Harrison said:
Point taken. I have edited my post to make it (possibly) less hurtful.

In an effort to explore, a little deeper, my motivations for bringing up this (apparently) touchy subject, I have some observations:

While the occasional misuse of words is common and does not (necessarily) indicate a lack of intelligence or creative ability, it may reflect a lack of depth in a person's vocabulary. Whether this limitation would (or should) keep an individual from pursuing and achieving success as a writer is debatable. I think we can all agree that good verbal skills are a plus, and leave it at that.

For the sake of argument, let's construct an imaginary writer, and give him/her below average skills in grammar, spelling, etc. Our imaginary writer has a story they want to tell, and they believe it is interesting enough to entertain a lot of people. Our writer constructs a query letter which has some flaws which they are unaware of, and sends it to a literary agent, a well-known publisher, and PublishAmerica. I don't even need to finish this, but I'm going to.

The only positive response he/she gets (and it's a quick one) is:

Congratulations! We've decided to give your book Why I Dropped Out Of School the chance it deserves!

Thus beginning another in a series of relationships based on absolutely nothing but unrealistic hope. By the time the agent and/or well-known publisher do respond with whatever form of rejection they choose to employ, the quality of the manuscript is no longer in question; whatever skills our writer does have are "good enough", and do not need any honing. As long as our writer maintains mistaken confidence in his/her work, buying books and selling them is a viable (and controllable) method for furthering their new career as an author.

It's been said here (and I agree) that pinpointing a specific author's mistakes, without an invitation to critique, is insulting and potentially counterproductive. It is also (often) a self-serving exercise, merely to showcase the critic's superior knowledge. While this behavior is often tempting, it is rarely (if ever) honorable. I'd like to say I have never done this, but rewriting history is best left up to politicians and the clergy.

I agree. To pretend that all writers who are published by PA are potentially great writers who made a simple mistake is not productive. Some of them might have been accepted by a legitimate commercial publisher if they hadn't gotten caught in PA's clutches. Some will eventually make it after study and real hard work. Some just don't write well and never will. Sorry, but that's life.

The lack of quality control is an issue that may drive potential victims away from PA when they discover it. It should not be kept a deep dark secret. To say that there are some PA authors who write very badly is the simple truth.
The PAMB censors the truth. Do you really want to go that route?

Bufty · Dec 4, 2005

Oh my - someone is living in cuckoo land. What are you smokin' and what are you trying to say, friend?

PublishAmerica will send you a royalty check twice a year. One that check will be a number of how many copies someone bought, the price they bought them for and you royalty from that payment.

I do belive that you can judge for yourself how your book is selling. First, did you order some author copies to promote with? Every author should purchase some books for resale and some for promtion. Just don't think that just because you have written a book that eveyone will automatically know about your book and purchase it. You must promote yourself and your book. You are in the best position to do this, because you know better than any one else what you wrote. If you are not excited about it then how can you expect anyone else to be. Unless you are a famous person or have a huge following most people will not know who you are. PublishAmerica authors are in the same boat, we are all unknowns and we have to work to make oureselves and our books none. So, how do you know if your book is selling? Answer: How many books have you sold and how much promotion have you done to help yourself.
You can help yourself by linking with other authors. I have been on websites of other authors and found a link or a book that interested me, I went to that website from the website that I was on. We each help ourselves and others in the same business. ...

Bufty · Dec 4, 2005

For 10,000 pulp board coasters (give or take depending on the colors that you may want to add; probably a little more for me because I am having my book cover put on when I get it along with my website and a one line description of the book) for around 200 dollars plus shipping. I will simply walk into the bar where I am going to be staying prior to the start of the weekend event and ask them to use mine that weekend rather than napkins or their own.

This is something that you could all do as well. Go to your book stores that have coffee shops or the literary cafes and ask them to use your coasters rather than napkins or their own.

On this site you can also buy custon plastic table cloths for your signings for around 7 dollars a piece again depending on how much detail you may want to add. I think the minimum purchase on those is 10 so you are talking roughly 70 dollars and that will take you through 10 events. Pretty cheap if you ask me.

What????????

Cheap? Are you nuts? Do you have any idea how many books you have now to sell just to cover your expenses? And how about the cost of the travelling trunk to carry all the stuff - and don't forget the books! And do you honestly think folks in a bar are going to buy a book because they saw it on their coaster through an alcoholic haze?

postshy · Dec 4, 2005

I am with you Lady of Prose....

and SC Harrison. After those last two posts about marketing, if you do not want me to hurt any feelings - all I can say is "Ouch". There are other things that need taking care of before promotion. This can only reflect on all PA authors.

Not to say that we are perfect - look at the bottom of my posts sometime and see how often I edit, but at least I edit. Posters on the PAMB should learn to use that function if they want to impress their readership.

Sorry, I do not mean to offend but a pat on the back instead of a polite correction won't do the job. Please feel free to correct me anytime, I will not take it amiss just because I am a PA author.

postshy/Roberta

Bufty · Dec 4, 2005

(Re PA mispellings etc.,) Fair enough, but if you can see it, I can see it, and whoever browses can see it - what is gained by pointing it out?

Dawno · Dec 4, 2005

Bufty said:
And do you honestly think folks in a bar are going to buy a book because they saw it on their coaster through an alcoholic haze?

Last time I bought something advertised on a coaster in an bar it was a brand of beer.

Do they sell books in bars now? Because that's the only way I'd buy a book from a coaster - if it was actually on sale at wherever it was that I saw the coaster.

I'm not going to take the soggy thing home with me so next time I'm at a bookstore I can take it to the customer service desk and say "can you order this for me - I can't seem to find it on your shelves."

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Dances With Hamsters

annoyed and annoying

Absolute sagebrush

Where have the last ten years gone?

Dances With Hamsters

Absolute sagebrush

Hand? What hand?

On a wing and a prayer

Dances With Hamsters

calm waters ahead

Hand? What hand?

Cat hair collector

NOooooo!!!

annoyed and annoying

Member - the "Sting Gang."

calm waters ahead

NOooooo!!!

Where have the last ten years gone?

Where have the last ten years gone?

Where have the last ten years gone?

Shiny!