Heacock Hill Literary Agency

Tom Dark said:

I hope you who strive for integrity and fairness have read this and understand it clearly.

Click to expand...

And if there's one among you who can reply to this with an affirmative, I shall eat my hat and promptly choke on it.

Whoa.

Huh...

I had a brief interaction with Tom Dark a few months ago. I liked him. He was quick and funny and he introduced me to the phrase "harder than herding cats" for which I'm eternally grateful.

That's all I got.

How very...illuminating.

Perks said:

And if there's one among you who can reply this with an affirmative, I shall eat my hat and promptly choke on it.

Whoa.

Click to expand...

I tried, but my eyes kept glazing over. It was very grandoise and long-winded.

Good news for me! It's not like I want to eat my hat.

Sigh... and this is what happens when I don't send form rejection letters. That'll teach me.

Priceless and I never see eye to eye as she will confirm.

But when I am in the market for an agent I will want to know: what sales have you made? Loving the Art is hardly the point.

If you've made some sales, Tom, brag about it. That will win the argument. If you haven't, better make some and THEN come back and brag about it.

Till then you can't really claim to be an agent, can you?

I am the "M.G."

which Dark rather smears in his long post here and elsewhere.

Dark jumped to a conclusion. I have not posted here whatsoever since ca last June (post removed).

Peace be with you, Dark, and best wishes.

--Mark M

http://www.myspace.com/myspace_markm

http://www.webspawner.com/users/mkm/

Oh dear god. Is it juicy enough for me to actually have to wade in there and find out? My eyes kept rolling back in my head the first three times I tried to get through it.

Actually, we're rather hoping the thread will die a natural death.

I think all the info necessary to form an educated opinion has been revealed.

-Ann C. Crispin

You were right, Tom Dark has disappointed me.

My name is James Clark. I don't know if any one will read this reply. I was hoping to be able to come back to this site and win the argument by telling you that Tom Dark sold my book. Well, that has not happened.

I'm back to let you know that you were right. When I first came on this board it was at Tom's request. He wrote and called all of his clients and friends and asked them to come here and defend him. At the time, I did so gladly because at that time he had been loyal to me.

Over the last few months though, Tom has bragged to me about getting an agent at Bantam books fired because she did not want to read my MS.

He has told me that he had a dream that Dori, a psychic will show me the way to get my book published.

He writes me and his other clients trying to get us engaged in time consuming debates with one another.

He writes me letters, not about what he is doing to try and sell my book but how the market is dead and how today's editors are fresh out of college and how "they are young and dumb"

I asked him a fair question, "How is the editor getting fired, conversations with a psychic you dreamed about, and debating your other clients getting me closer to publishing my book?"

I get back an anger and profanity filled letter telling me to not write him anymore until I jump through the hoops and do exactly what I'm told.

Someone of this board prognosticated that Tom will eventually disappoint me. Well you were right.

James Clark

No need to start multiple threads. The mods (namely me) will merge 'em into the main thread.

IMHO, this debate should be deleted. Although the debate contains useful information for writers searching for an agent, the negatives, in the form of too much information, outweigh that positives. It made me feel . . . kinda icky.

Very informative, in my opinion...thanks for the information!

Hmmm. Well, Catt, I didn't get the feeling James was boohooing about the fact his book hadn't sold. Lots of books don't sell. Lots of authors part way with their agents. (Happened to me, no biggie.) It's just business. No one agent is the perfect fit for every writer or every book.

To me, James' point (and cautionary tale) is that his agent behaved in a grossly inappropriate manner. Who wants to sign with an agent who sends out profanity laced emails, trash talks "young and dumb" editors, provokes problems between clients, and relies on dreams and psychics to guide his book selling efforts?

Hmmm. Well, Catt, I didn't get the feeling James was boohooing about the fact his book hadn't sold. Lots of books don't sell. Lots of authors part way with their agents. (Happened to me, no biggie.) It's just business. No one agent is the perfect fit for every writer or every book.

To me, James' point (and cautionary tale) is that his agent behaved in a grossly inappropriate manner.

Click to expand...

That's my takeaway as well.

Anyone else wondering whether the IP addresses of "Catt" and "Tom Dark" might be the same?

As a girl?

Appropriate for two jocks?

As a girl?

Sorry. I digressed a bit there.

Theoretically, they could show the same IP address and be two different posters, Parametric. But, the similiarities in posts are interesting. Needless, they are certainly giving us invaluable insight into their agency.

As a girl. *sigh*

Since both Catt and Tom work at Heacock, they would be expected to have the save IP address.

Since Catt and Rosalie Grace Heacock Thompson are in the AAR, they must sell books. But I guess if your book isn't about mystical or psychic phenomena, you might feel a little out of place at their agency. As for the profanity and unprofessionalism, it would certainly be enough to turn me off, but I guess some people might find it refreshing. But ultimately the purpose of your agent is to sell your books, and I'm not seeing much evidence that Tom's unconventional approach sells more books, even books about using mystical powers.

Yes, you can often tell who a writer is even if they post on bulletin boards anonymously.

Click to expand...

Very true, Tom Catt. Very true.

CLeBaigue said:

Did you know that many agents don't share what houses and editors agents their work has been submitted to, much less what kind of feedback the submission receives? Most writers want to know. The reason we've got writers who have long publishing histories is because they left the big agencies because they were kept in the dark regarding submissions and responses.

Click to expand...

With all due respect...this is nonsense. Agents absolutely do share this information with clients--not just because it's customary, but because editors' feedback can be immensely helpful in assessing a project's marketability. I'm with a big agency; I have ALWAYS been kept apprised of where my manuscripts go, and editors' responses (and names) are ALWAYS shared with me. Ditto for other writers I know.

Ultimately, this writer needs to step up to the plate and face the tough world of the gatekeepers, the publishers. He complained about the agent not being a salesman. Agents are not salesmen! Ask an editor if they want to deal with a salesman? An agent simply informs the editor of the availability of the work and finds out what the editor is seeking so they can be on the look out for it.

Click to expand...

Certainly they're not salesmen in the used-car sense (it's a common misconception that sales skills acquired in different professions--advertising, say--are easily transferable to agenting). But you do want your agent to pitch your work, and to advocate for it to editors. If all your agent does is inform editors that your ms. is available, you need a new agent.

James brought his fight here, but this venue won't help him. If he is going to look for a new agent and a publisher, it would be best if this debate was deleted for his sake.

Click to expand...

Frankly, I think you might hope that it would be deleted for your sake. However, I'm going to leave it in place.

Tom Dark, does Catt LeBaigue know that you are posting under her name? Your writing style is quite distinctive. Not to mention...those telltale IP addresses.

- Victoria

CLeBaigue said:

You asked: "Who wants to sign with an agent who sends out profanity laced emails, trash talks "young and dumb" editors, provokes problems between clients, and relies on dreams and psychics to guide his book selling efforts?"

Click to expand...

I'm concerned that you feel this sort of behavior marks you as an effective agent.

It's important authors understand that agents do not send brow-beating, profanity-filled emails to their clients [or editors] and expect to maintain a satisfying relationship or solid reputation. This is not jock talk. It's shocking and unprofessional. Agents don't blame their authors for not "stepping up to the plate." If the relationship erodes due to writing issues, they part ways. No fuss, no muss.

Yep, we're deep here at Heacock. We choose authors whose work we believe in.

Click to expand...

This isn't a new concept. All agents do this.

I'm not as challenging as Tom is, not as intellectually brilliant,

Click to expand...

Oh good gracious. Now I know Tom is the author of this mess.

Did you know that many agents don't share what houses and editors agents their work has been submitted to, much less what kind of feedback the submission receives?

Click to expand...

Not true at all. I work with a number of very top agents, and every one of them provides a submissions list to their clients.

Agents are not salesmen! Ask an editor if they want to deal with a salesman? An agent simply informs the editor of the availability of the work and finds out what the editor is seeking so they can be on the look out for it. After the editor invites the material, it needs to deliver

Click to expand...

WRONG! Agents represent the author and their story, and they most certainly DO sell. I've had phone calls and email pitches from agents whose pitches made my mouth water. That's their job because they realize we have hundreds of queries sitting on our office floors. They want their particular pitcher of cream to rise to the top, and they do this by giving a solid synopsis that's presented in an appealing manner.

I wouldn't look twice at a writer who posted this kind of history in public. Yes, I do google even those whose work I invite.

Click to expand...

As do most editors. If there is a problem, such as this, we tend to do our due diligence and see where problem lies. We ask around and talk to other agents and such. We don't take anyone's word at face value. Authors should never be afraid to speak out, and I resent the implication that they should keep quiet in order to save their reputation. Silence is how abusive situations prosper.

Whoa. Catt, I absolutely did not want to see any dirty laundry. No, I wasn't trying to draw you out by calling the agent's behavior inappropriate. It's an opinion. That's it. I have no dog in this fight. I just posted because I thought maybe the point of James' post had been missed. That's it.

Yes, I'm quite knowledgeable about working with agents. I didn't need the play-by-play. For what it's worth, my last agent always shared her submission notes and responses from editors. My current editors are fabulous and professional.

Also I don't think James brought his "fight" here. I think he used this forum in the same manner other authors use this forum. We come here to discuss agents, editors, and publishers to better enable us to make the best choices for our careers. Sure, James' description of his agent turned me off, but there are probably writers out there who would enjoy Tom Dark's style. Different strokes and all that.

I think, however, that it looks a smidge petty to insinuate that James will never get another agent after posting here. That's blatantly untrue. Plenty of debut and multi-published authors post in this forum, sometimes with not so happy information about agents and publishers, and yet they continue to sign with agents and publishers.

Thank you Catt (or Tom) for posting.

This forum is used by hundreds (if not thousands) of unagented authors in determining which agents they will send queries to. Not all of them are hopelessly unsaleable.
I'm sure your post will have made the decision easier for many of them

Gracias Escritora y MLHernandez

por su punto de vista y ustedes tienen razon.

I didn't come here to sob in my beer about my book not selling. I didn't come here because I feel hopeless or even to help promote my book or find a new agent. I came here to tell Pricless1 that I now believe her story. I didn't at first, you can scroll back and see it was me that came here to defend Tom Dark on here(at his request and I have the emails to prove that). I didn't just come here to defend him because he asked me though. I came because in the beginning it seemed like he believed in me and in the beginning I believed in him too.

After working with Tom for nine months, I saw a pattern of behavior that supports Priceless1' testimony. I stand by what I wrote here and don't feel the need to remove it because I have emails that prove what I have said here; from the comments about editors being "young and dumb" to the insulting profanity laced tirades. I also have emails that will refute what Catt has written here. One editor of a smaller publishing house said that my book should be rewritten and Tom advised me not to heed that advice. But that is besides the point that I am trying to make here. That single correspondence with this editor was the last thing I heard about my book. The rest of Tom's emails consisted of his gloating because he was responsible for getting this editor fired at Bantam books, the psychic friends, debates about the existence of God with his atheist friend, and how these "fresh out of college young and dumb editors" are ruining the publishing business.

Tom seemed more interested in settling scores than helping me sell the book. That is what I am "disillusioned" about.