The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

mreddin · Aug 21, 2005

Jean Marie said:
because authors come on here one at a time asking/stating what you are Shelagh!! And each and every time, posters have to play peat and repeat. What else are we supposed to do? I suppose we could gather aspiring authors worldwide in one enormous convention center. Jenna & company could present the facts one time and move on with their lives. Until that happens, it's one author at a time, like yourself.

This might not be quite as ludicrious as you intended Jean. Even a modest sized convection (one that rivals the size of PA's assembly of 14,000 "Happy" authors) would generate significant press, especially if some of the established writers utlized their existing media contacts. It would be the resultant publicity that would serve as the broadcast medium, therefore the conference need only be sufficient in size to generate "buzz".

I'd be willing to donate $1,000 to the organization that can pull that off.

I would not expect this to be a "basher" conference, but rather something that offers the "real world" advice and data that has been shared in this forum over the past couple of years, contrasted with what PublishAmerica states to their authors. Invite a few politicians and suddenly PA might finally might receive the closer legal scruitiny they have invited upon themselves through their nefarious actions.

Mike

astonwest · Aug 21, 2005

shelagh watkins said:
All the advice I receive on this thread is well meant but I've had to accept that my work, no matter how good, is not going to be accepted. PA may not be your first choice but it was my only choice.

Your book was "not going to be accepted" by mainstream publishers, do you mean?
Because it's been proven a number of times what kind of acceptance criteria PA uses...

mreddin · Aug 21, 2005

As for saying that my book is not worth buying unless it is on a bookshelf...
Many excellent books are not available in bookstores but they are for sale online. My book is worth every penny, whether bought in a bookstore, charity shop, garage sale or online. The retailer does not diminish the quality of my book.

Unless someone deleted a post or edited the offending content out, I cannot find the aforementioned quote that "Your book not worth buying unless...". Given the dozen of posts in the last 24 hours, apologies if I missed it.

However, I have seen a number of people opine the following:

Statistically speaking, the vast majority of books purchased in the United States of America is done through a retail bookstore. Therefore, if you book is not found in a retail bookstore, then it shall sadly experience minimimal sales. Does this have diddly to do with the intrinsic value of your work? Absolutely not, nor do I see any post from someone with claims to the contrary. What it does say, is that your not going to experience the kind of reasonable sales most authors hope to obtain. Now, this could be a situtation where sales do not matter to you. If your writing to a niche audience, one perhaps that typically buys books online, then you might be all set. However, nothing you've stated thus far indicates this to be the situation.

Mike

Dawno · Aug 21, 2005

mreddin said:
This might not be quite as ludicrious as you intended Jean. Even a modest sized convection (one that rivals the size of PA's assembly of 14,000 "Happy" authors) would generate significant press, especially if some of the established writers utlized their existing media contacts. It would be the resultant publicity that would serve as the broadcast medium, therefore the conference need only be sufficient in size to generate "buzz".

I'd be willing to donate $1,000 to the organization that can pull that off.

I would not expect this to be a "basher" conference, but rather something that offers the "real world" advice and data that has been shared in this forum over the past couple of years, contrasted with what PublishAmerica states to their authors. Invite a few politicians and suddenly PA might finally might receive the closer legal scruitiny they have invited upon themselves through their nefarious actions.

Mike

I might not be able to afford that level of donation but I'd give what I could afford and I'd donate volunteer time as well.

LloydBrown · Aug 21, 2005

shelagh watkins said:
Bufty, I know several PA authors, who regularly post on the PA boards, who are in the process of receiving proofs/cover art for their second or third book (Mario Fedele, Ann Lebrecht, Carol Bennett, Jess Parker...)

Out of 14,000, you'll find several people who are willing to stay with PA just to hear the positive drivel they feed their authors/customers. These people don't sell many books, though.

That's the thing. If all you want is to see your books in print and don't have any desire to actually sell any significant number of books, go with a conventional (and self-admitted) POD printer. It's cheaper than buying your books through PA. And you don't lose anything--you even keep the rights to your own book. PA offers NO services at all.

All the advice I receive on this thread is well meant but I've had to accept that my work, no matter how good, is not going to be accepted.

Why do you think that is? Do you feel that your book's not good enough for a traditional publisher, is it your proposal skills, or are you too impatient to wait the required time? You tell us, and we'll be glad to offer alternatives.

PA may not be your first choice but it was my only choice.

PA isn't the best option for anything, regardless of your goal.

As for saying that my book is not worth buying unless it is on a bookshelf...Many excellent books are not available in bookstores but they are for sale online.

They might be good books, but they aren't good-selling books. Do you believe the lies that PA tells you about most books being bought somewhere other than a bookstore? That's not true.

My book is worth every penny, whether bought in a bookstore, charity shop, garage sale or online.

It is to YOU. It isn't to the readers that you'd like to sell it to. After they buy it, they might have been willing to pay more. However, the fact is that a book that costs $7 more on average than other books its size, sells in far fewer numbers than the conventionally-priced books.

astonwest · Aug 21, 2005

mreddin said:
Unless someone deleted a post or edited the offending content out, I cannot find the aforementioned quote that "Your book not worth buying unless...". Given the dozen of posts in the last 24 hours, apologies if I missed it.

I think she's probably referring to the number of posters who have said they would read her book if it was on a store's shelf.

Richard · Aug 21, 2005

I would not expect this to be a "basher" conference, but rather something that offers the "real world" advice and data that has been shared in this forum over the past couple of years, contrasted with what PublishAmerica states to their authors. Invite a few politicians and suddenly PA might finally might receive the closer legal scruitiny they have invited upon themselves through their nefarious actions.

Heh. PA CON?

(MIRANDA: Slander! Libel! Hot-dogs! Get 'em while they're spicy!)

Sheryl Nantus · Aug 21, 2005

shelagh watkins said:
I'm bored now. Life is too short for all this... and I have a novel to write.

go ahead.

but next time, try to get a publisher - not a printer.

Rose colored glasses · Aug 21, 2005

Anybody who says their book can do just as well online as it could if it were available from actual bookstores across the nation really needs a reality check!

Hey you other authors - how many authors copies of your book did you receive?

Susan Gable · Aug 21, 2005

Rose colored glasses said:
Hey you other authors - how many authors copies of your book did you receive?

Rose, I think the "standard" ranges from 20-100. Some pubs might do more. That's also one of the things that's definately negotiable in a contract.

Susan G.

TracySutterer & GaryRogers · Aug 21, 2005

Dear Shelagh Watkins

Hi Shelagh,

Argile Stox here. From an emotional point of view, I was in your shoes (well, not exactly. I am a man & wear a size thirteen - lol!) when I signed with PublishAmerica - and my book was released. I had thought - and I stress HAD THOUGHT that this nobody born in Brooklyn, New York and living in Illinois at the time, was now a Published Author.

In the big picture, I thought that this insignificant speck who lived on this third rock from the sun - could leave a legacy behind. Since my ego had been diminished for a few decades, it was then bolstered by virtue of a memoir that was 325 pages long, had sentences that made sense, which were printed in a trade paperback. I thought that my author's voice would be heard loud and clear - all over the world.

Alas, just the opposite occurred. My memoir was relegated to a small corner of cyberspace and is lingering on death-row for another six years. Yes, every once and a while my memoir does see the light of day, when it is purchased on the Internet. However, that happens very rarely.

I had hoped that my book would be shelved proudly in brick and mortar bookstores among other books - purchased and read, and that it would open a new world to individual(s).

Once again, my book and I remain a small speck on this planet. My author's voice has been silenced by treacherous wardens and despicable guards. The only hope is that the court will parole my memoir soon, so that it can begin a second life with a new publisher.

I wish you the best of luck, Shelagh. I hope your experience with PublishAmerica/Publish Britannia will be more pleasant than mine.

If you have free time, please visit:

http://www.useless-knowledge.com/columnists/argilestox/index.html

The articles written on that site will give you a detailed timeline, which will indicate exactly how my relationship with PublishAmerica - deteriorated.

Honor & Respect For You,
Argile Stox

Computer-End Program
ISBN 1-4137-2496-5

Jean Marie · Aug 21, 2005

Lady of Prose!!!

Lady of Prose said:
Good news. I did a search at B&N, Amazon, Addall.com, Fetchbook.com, for "Treads in Time," and you did not show up! You've been pulled from their data base. Good for you, girl!
You are on your way!

Thanks for the effort, but, it's Threads in Time!!!

Christine N. · Aug 21, 2005

Sigh. Shelagh, if you happen to venture back here...

Only seven months? from Scholastic? I'd expect a wait of over a year for an unsolicted manuscript. Same from Random House, Tor or HarperCollins. Big houses, big wait.

There are a thousand other small publishers that get into bookstores with shorter wait times. If you only sent your ms to Scholastic and PA, you didn't give it a chance. You were in a hurry to see it in print, rather than wait for someone who was really going to do something for you. If Scholastic HAD eventually accepted it, you would have had a bigger advance than $1 too.

You said it would never be accepted, but you didn't wait to see, did you? Hmmm...

In this gotta have it now, instant gratification society of ours, we deal with a business where slow is the norm. <shrug>

Sakamonda · Aug 21, 2005

This is a stupid thread

When are all these poor folks going to get it through their thick, egotistical heads that PA is nothing but a vanity-publisher SCAM? There is SO much information on this all over the Web, but yet, people just keep getting suckered in. I feel sorry for all these people getting screwed by PA, but at the same time, they have only themselves to blame for not heeding all the thousands of warnings that are out there if they have enough gumption to do a Google search.

triceretops · Aug 21, 2005

One publisher gave me 12 copies and the other sent 20 copies.

Tri

NancyMehl · Aug 21, 2005

Sorry to bore you....

shelagh watkins said:
I'm bored now. Life is too short for all this... and I have a novel to write.

This may bore you too, Shelagh - but here goes.

You are supporting a "publisher" (printer) who has personally threatened writers, who has lied time and time again, who has used intimidation more than once against those who oppose them, who has paraded behind the identity of make believe PA authors to post personal and vile slams against people, and who has stolen money from authors.

Ask Dave K. who holds the doman names for "Preditors and Editors" in and attempt to intimidate and harrass them due to their warnings about PA. It's an interesting story. Ask Kevin Y about the "policeman" who showed up on his doorstep to warn him to leave PA alone after he proved that PA doesn't read the manuscripts they offer to print. Ask C.E. Winterland about the time that PA staff members, pretending to be PA authors, listed his home address, phone number, work place, and comments about his sexual persuasion (that were wrong) on the PA message board - and left it up for several weeks. (C.E. runs Mindsightseries.com. It contains a forum where authors have been allowed to tell the truth about their experiences.) And...what about Victoria Strauss and A.C. Crispin - who were called plagerizers - and worse on the PA board?

And, you might ask me about PA. I sold over 1300 books with them. When I notified them that I was working on a big deal with the Kroger stores in my home state - they cancellled my contract due to lack of sales. You see, I only bought books once - and it wasn't enough. They didn't want me to succeed commercially - they just wanted me to buy more books.

And, after being interviewed by a writer from the Associated Press - Larry Clopper stated for publication that I had sold "thousands" of books. Either he is a liar - or he is a thief. It has to be one or the other.

So...I guess I will stick to what I believe about PA because I've dealt with them since 2000. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but perhaps it would do you good to realize that many of us have had a lot of experience with PA. We may know more than you do. Is that possible?

No matter what you think of PA's "printing" procedures - you have aligned yourself with a publisher that has done a lot of really nasty things to its authors. I wouldn't want to associate myself with an organization like that.

Oh, and by the way, they still owe me money. I have the receipts to prove it.

Nancy

Lady of Prose · Aug 21, 2005

Jean Marie said:
Thanks for the effort, but, it's Threads in Time!!!

How embarrassing--Thanks for understanding Jean Marie. I should have paid attention to my own typo. I was excited to think maybe PA had done something right for a change. Little chance of that.

Sorry.

Rose colored glasses · Aug 21, 2005

Nancy Mehl - that is very disturbing information.

Banned-Aide · Aug 21, 2005

Well said (or written) Nancy Mehl!
:Clap:

You are NEVER boring. Your story needs to be repeated from time to time.

You have always been my hero for standing up for what you know is right. Bravo.

BA

astonwest · Aug 21, 2005

Rose colored glasses said:
that is very disturbing information.

Which should fit, since it's a very disturbing company...

DaveKuzminski · Aug 21, 2005

shelagh watkins said:
I'm bored now. Life is too short for all this... and I have a novel to write.

Yeah, go back now and tell them you belled the cat. See just how much more consideration that gets you.

When you accept the truth, we'll still be here.

Gravity · Aug 21, 2005

Rose colored glasses said:
Can someone here who is with a mainstream publisher tell us what the norm is for author copies?

I was given 300. That was for my second novel (commerically published, non-POD, national distribution, bookstore shelving, full returnability, etc).

My first novel was with PA. They gave me 2.

John

JennaGlatzer · Aug 21, 2005

Damn, that's good. Usually between 25 and 50 for me.

Rose colored glasses · Aug 21, 2005

I received 2 free author copies, which is PA standard, unless you negotiate, which I forgot to do.:Smack: The most I've ever seen anyone say they received from PA is 5.

I just looked at Bookmanager, which someone else had mentioned. My book is non-existant on that site.

postshy · Aug 21, 2005

To Shelagh Watkins....

I was one of the first to answer your post and I hope to be one of the last. I am sorry that you have grown bored with this discussion. You obviously do not care about the woes of others as long as we acknowledge that you have got what you wanted and expected from PublishAmerica.

We have heard it all before and we will await your comments, as I stated before, after one year. You will then be an experienced PA author and not just a "honeymooner" taking the opportunity to point people on this forum to your website. Any advertising is good, right? I do not know whether this whole discussion was about PA, or about your book.

I wish you well and admire your spirit but, speaking just for myself, I feel this forum is for those who care about others. I have mentioned the name of my book just once on this forum because it is not just about my book. I am proud of it. It is a children's book also. However, I am not here to promote my book, or my writing. My goal, along with that of many people on this forum, is to expose PublishAmerica.

You may feel we are being unkind, but you are making assumptions about some of the most hardworking people on this Board, who are making every effort to help the authors caught in PA's web of lies and to PREVENT others from making the same mistake.

You have read the comments of a great many people who are hurting. Personally, I have got over it and moved on with my life, but I will continue the fight on behalf of those who have not, or may not, be as lucky.

Once again, this is not personal but I feel we need to return to the important subject - putting a scam publisher out of business, or at least getting them to acknowledge what they are. Best of luck with your sequel but I hope that, like me, you won't have to withdraw it when PA's true colurs come to light. I received at least one e-mail a week for some time, each from a different person, asking me to re-submit my second book, and that is after they assured me the first one was not selling. Does that tell you anything? They just want to meet their quota and they do not care how they do it.

Good luck with your second book but, believe me, remaining unpublished is a lot better than being printed by PA.

postshy/Roberta

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Dreamer

2 WIP? A glutton for punishment

Dreamer

Shiny!

2 WIP? A glutton for punishment

13th Triskaidekaphobe

Holding out for a Superhero...

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

Coffee Fanatics

calm waters ahead

haz a shiny new book cover

...

She Who Resonates...

Member - the "Sting Gang."

2 WIP? A glutton for punishment

Preditors & Editors

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go

wishes you happiness