PAMB and its quotes

Didn't say 'print', just said 'sent'.

Kind of how marketing is done 'at their discretion'.

This has probably been asked and answered in the 1000s of previous PA posts, but I don't have enough years left to me to read through them -

What state is PA doing business out of? And is that state's Attorney General looking at them? If not, why not? This should be stopped.

Queen of Swords said:

A friend of mine recently asked me when I was going to hire an agent. I explained that one doesn't hire agents, but if that's what so many people think, no wonder they shell out to scamster agents (and vanity presses like PA).

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Someone on a copyediting list I belong to once asked for advice. She needed an agent, and she said she was considering hiring one who charged a flat-out fee because she didn't want to leak royalty money to that agent. I hope I was able to set her straight. Still, if copyeditors (who often work in some form of publishing) can think fee-charging agents are OK, then is it any surprise that people with no connection to publishing think that?

nerdsRus said:

This has probably been asked and answered in the 1000s of previous PA posts, but I don't have enough years left to me to read through them -

What state is PA doing business out of? And is that state's Attorney General looking at them? If not, why not? This should be stopped.

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PA is based in Frederick, MD. I don't know if the AG is interested in them or not - but I believe they've managed to slither under the radar because they haven't technically broken any laws AFAIK. Unfortunately, being sleazy isn't against the law.

They suck

I’m surprised PA author, Cheryl Pillsbury, hasn’t added pay-for-reviews to her list of services she offers newbie writers.

Learning from the PAMB, she used that “expertise” to form AG Press (a pay-to-play agency) and sends her “clients” to pay-to play/vanity publishers such as Roval and PA. Her most famous client (to date) plagiarized Kemmel’s, “Dark Prince.”

Here’s a link to that fiasco.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80354

Who says you don’t learn anything from the PAMB?

Jersey Chick said:

PA is based in Frederick, MD. I don't know if the AG is interested in them or not - but I believe they've managed to slither under the radar because they haven't technically broken any laws AFAIK. Unfortunately, being sleazy isn't against the law.

They suck

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Thank you. This sounds like a good meaty job for John Stossel.

nerdsRus said:

This has probably been asked and answered in the 1000s of previous PA posts, but I don't have enough years left to me to read through them -

What state is PA doing business out of? And is that state's Attorney General looking at them? If not, why not? This should be stopped.

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This has been addressed time and again on PA. (But yes, it would take time to track down the specific responses to your inquiry.)

The relationship between PA and its authors is BUSINESS TO BUSINESS. Consumer protection issues are irrelevant. Many people (including myself) have written to the governor (Maryland) and AG and consumer protection agencies and have all been told the same thing: not our issue. Authors who sign those contracts apparently do not realize that they are businesses engaging in a business contract.

If one strips away the hand-wringing and recriminations and emotionalism, it all boils down to this:

Two businesses, A and B, have signed a contract. If A decides that the contract is not satisfactory (or for any reason no longer desirable) after having signed it, A has the option to request termination of the contract. B is not obligated to agree to termination. However, A and B can negotiate mutually acceptible terms for early termination of the contract.

In the cases at hand (A is an author and B is PublishAmerica), it seems often the case that:

A says "B, you are a lousy publisher," and B might respond, "A, you signed the contract; presumably you read it, understood it, and did your homework; we have done what we agreed to do and we expect you to honor your end of the contract, including use of arbitration as specifically provided for in the contract that you signed if you feel issues require resolution other than through direct communications."

Alternatively, A can suggest terms for B's consideration, or might simply explain to B why it does not benefit B's interests to continue the contract in force, in hopes that B will agree to early termination of the contract without compensation for invested time, effort, and expense.

There is also the option for A to whine and moan and to heap insult, inviting response in kind.

--Ken

The PA author who’s guestbook was slimed did contact me.

Here’s a link to that guestbook.

http://www1.freewebs.com/zanadib/guestbook.htm

Unfortunately, she didn’t provide me with the full IP addresses so that a mod could determine if the poster was a member of AW. She provided only the partials. I found it interesting that the only other thing she said to me was this…

And by the way since you guys like to bash PA all the time are you published at all????

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I did reply to her message with an email requesting, again, the full IP addresses but she hasn’t replied back. I also explained why the PA threads exist on AW and that many of the members who post to these threads are published authors and provided links to some of our members' webpages.

In perusing the PAMB this morning, I find she has a new blog and here’s what she says about AW.

http://zanadib.blogspot.com/

Like if you go to absolutewrite.com they have threads there that all they do is talk bad about Publish America. And yeah that is perfectly fine to talk bad about the publishing company but when you go into a authors web page and go to their guestbook and pretty much tell them that they aren't a real writer because they are getting published by Publish America. If you want to see what I mean go to my web site. which is www.freewebs.com/zanadib and go to my guest book. The guy that I am talking about left a couple entries there

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I think I made it clear it wasn’t me that left the message on her guestbook and that AW would like to determine if it is a member of AW who left the nasty messages. Unfortunately, it appears she would rather go with the flow on the PAMB that we are jealous “bashers” who leave nasty notes in guestbooks.

Disappointing, but a good example of how blinded to reality some people can become when they drink the koolaid on the PAMB.

brianm said:

Disappointing, but a good example of how blinded to reality some people can become when they drink the koolaid on the PAMB.

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She's still a honeymooner. When they're in that state of mind, PA can do no wrong and anyone who criticizes PA is anathema. I thought your reply to her was very decent.

There's another nasty comment left in her blog this morning.

http://www1.freewebs.com/zanadib/guestbook.htm

Chuck: Your BIO is full of mispelled words...It is people like you who give a bad name to PA and its authors. Get into something else that does not require knowledge of the English language. Let me suggest ditch digging. It will give you time to think while you dig.

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Funny, I've always felt it was PA's scam vanity press reputation that hurt their authors.

I think it might also be a case of protesting too much. If she came over here and really looked around, saw that AW is much more than the PA threads, and that some of us really do know what we're talking about... and how much help is offered to writers in every stage... **sigh** And then there's seeing the forest for the trees. She hopes to get into a big house and it makes me sad to think that listing PA as a publishing credit won't help her (though I'm sure she feels the opposite) and that it can possibly hurt her.

Altho, I'd like to suggest she puts paragraph breaks in her blog. I went cross-eyed trying to read it.

ETA: These guestbook dopes aren't helping at all - I wish they'd shut up - if you can't say something nice...

brianm said:

The PA author who’s guestbook was slimed did contact me.

Here’s a link to that guestbook.

http://www1.freewebs.com/zanadib/guestbook.htm

Unfortunately, she didn’t provide me with the full IP addresses so that a mod could determine if the poster was a member of AW. She provided only the partials. I found it interesting that the only other thing she said to me was this…



I did reply to her message with an email requesting, again, the full IP addresses but she hasn’t replied back. I also explained why the PA threads exist on AW and that many of the members who post to these threads are published authors and provided links to some of our members' webpages.

In perusing the PAMB this morning, I find she has a new blog and here’s what she says about AW.

http://zanadib.blogspot.com/



I think I made it clear it wasn’t me that left the message on her guestbook and that AW would like to determine if it is a member of AW who left the nasty messages. Unfortunately, it appears she would rather go with the flow on the PAMB that we are jealous “bashers” who leave nasty notes in guestbooks.

Disappointing, but a good example of how blinded to reality some people can become when they drink the koolaid on the PAMB.

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You did all you could and what you did was the right thing. That is all you could do. It is that closed-minded mentality that you cannot get through. No sense shouting at the deaf. They have all the answers and know all about it, let them wallow in it.

Jersey Chick said:

She hopes to get into a big house and it makes me sad to think that listing PA as a publishing credit won't help her (though I'm sure she feels the opposite) and that it can possibly hurt her.

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When I was twenty-two I dreamed of getting picked up by a major publisher as well. I soon learned that you needed a little more than the ability to put words down on paper to make that happen. Maybe this author will learn the same thing and improve as a writer and realize her dreams, or maybe she'll decide that there's no point in aiming high when she has PA, which requires so much less in terms of skill and effort. It's sad, but there's nothing like experience to teach lessons like these.

Jersey Chick said:

I think it might also be a case of protesting too much. If she came over here and really looked around, saw that AW is much more than the PA threads, and that some of us really do know what we're talking about... and how much help is offered to writers in every stage... **sigh**

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The sad thing is that she has joined AW. Her correspondence with me was via pm.

So, even after I provided her with links to "green with envy" authors such as James D. MacDonald, to name one, she still thinks posters in the PA threads here in AW are jealous unpublished authors.

I also explained to her that first time authors get publishing contracts every day and used my friend Jersey Chick as an example.

Proof is in the pudding but apparently... she didn't like the pudding.

Well, point her towards these:

The rejections: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=28

and the accomplishments: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31

Let them decide for themselves.

I saw too much of attitudes like these at certain other boards and it just makes me mad...and sick.
Doesn't she/he see all the other PA authors here at AW? Why would they (we) all be "jealous"? Why does she/he suppose that we post here instead of the PAMB?
Just for kicks??

brianm said:

The sad thing is that she has joined AW. Her correspondence with me was via pm.

So, even after I provided her with links to "green with envy" authors such as James D. MacDonald, to name one, she still thinks posters in the PA threads here in AW are jealous unpublished authors.

I also explained to her that first time authors get publishing contracts every day and used my friend Jersey Chick as an example.

Proof is in the pudding but apparently... she didn't like the pudding.

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her loss.

she may have the talent to be a fantastic writer, but if she doesn't open her eyes she'll just be another wannabee in the PA stables whining about how the publishing conspiracy has kept her down.

sad.

so it goes.

brianm said:

The sad thing is that she has joined AW. Her correspondence with me was via pm.

So, even after I provided her with links to "green with envy" authors such as James D. MacDonald, to name one, she still thinks posters in the PA threads here in AW are jealous unpublished authors.

I also explained to her that first time authors get publishing contracts every day and used my friend Jersey Chick as an example.

Proof is in the pudding but apparently... she didn't like the pudding.

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brianm,

You did the best you could do. She/he will have to learn on their own what's up with Publish Anything. If you are hear reading this thread, let me take this time to welcome you to AW.

brianm said:

. . . Proof is in the pudding but apparently... she didn't like the pudding.

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The expression is, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

So it appears that she has not tried the pudding and may be unaware that it even exists, having settled instead for something with a vaguely puddinglike appearance but made from an entirely different substance.

--Ken

ResearchGuy said:

The expression is, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

So it appears that she has not tried the pudding and may be unaware that it even exists, having settled instead for something with a vaguely puddinglike appearance but made from an entirely different substance.

--Ken

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]You'd think the smell wouldtell her it's not choclate?

Regards,
Scott

brianm said:

The sad thing is that she has joined AW. Her correspondence with me was via pm.

So, even after I provided her with links to "green with envy" authors such as James D. MacDonald, to name one, she still thinks posters in the PA threads here in AW are jealous unpublished authors.

I also explained to her that first time authors get publishing contracts every day and used my friend Jersey Chick as an example.

Proof is in the pudding but apparently... she didn't like the pudding.

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If only she would tell us the IP addresses of the guestbook slimers! Even if she won't believe the rest of it, she should at least believe that there is a serious rule at Absolute Write against doing that sort of thing to PA authors' guestbooks.

ResearchGuy said:

The expression is, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

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I know it irritates purists to shorten up the original. My apologies.

JimmyD1318 said:

Now I'm going to be sick! This here is so stupid! Paying for a review! I'm with Jersey on this one! If I'm going to pay that it better be a good review and they come clean my house and throw in a bucket of POPCORN with it!

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The reviewer in question would be far too busy to fulfill those extra demands.

You should count yourself lucky. Just see below what you're already getting for your money and be eternally grateful.

Oh I agree, there are places you can get reviews for free. But there are also places you pay for a review.

My friend reads a lot and is also currently working on a novel and she has a college education, still going actually, while raising 3 children.

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Are writers seen as easy marks or something? The writing community seems to be a magnet for chancers and fly-by-nights.

xhouseboy said:

. . . Are writers seen as easy marks or something? The writing community seems to be a magnet for chancers and fly-by-nights.

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Some in the broad community of writers have other issues. In one case, I invested scores of hours, and some of my own money, in editing and formatting a book (worthwhile content, but not commercially publishable for several reasons, mostly length and limited market). I even offered to publish it, on incredibly generous terms because I saw social value in the project, in a way that would have gotten it to the intended market in a respectable fashion. (I have academic credentials that would have helped to legitimize the publication.) The author felt I had not given him enough FREE work and unreimbursed expenses, and offensively rejected the offer, implying that I was trying to cheat him. It will now never see print unless he pays someone to publish it. (I refused to become a subsidy publisher and made every effort to find a method that might let me break even on my out of pocket costs, at least, on legitimate sales to readers.)

In another case, an author (not a writer -- she had years ago dashed off what she thought was a children's book, but was in fact a rough draft of an outline) had to stop and think about my offer to publish her little story in book form (which I had edited, formatted, and illustrated at no charge -- even had a copy of the book printed at my expense). I cut that one off with the explanation that I could not meet her expectations. I did not add that her expectations were ludicrously inflated and that the only copy she would EVER see in book form was the one I paid to have printed (via Lulu). It was only on account of her very advanced age that I went to the trouble I did. But all that, for FREE, was not good enough.

Ingrates.

Fortunately, the folks I encounter are not all like that. But the ones above would have deserved PA.

--Ken