Pantsing a novel? Really?

[DeleyanLee]

When I wrote outlines, I could pull one together in about 3 hours. It always hit the major points, though lots of little points would change with every writing session. Then it would take me about 3-6 months to write the first draft. Always had FAR more editing on those books than I do on any book I've "pantsed".

But everyone's mileage will be different, so that's to be expected. I just get more good, usable words this way than I did the other. *shrug*

 

[Layla Nahar]

... If I try to follow an outline, I end up thinking too much about the plot and less about the character development, and it's the latter that matters to me. It's too easy to let the plot dictate what happens rather than the characters ....

Character arcs are what I hold in my head, not plot. The plot itself is merely a concept for me when I start a story. The events that happen aren't actually as important to my stories as where the characters go inside their hearts. The plot can change, but the characters are what matter to me, and their arcs are the true story, which is difficult to outline without writing an essay (literally, the critical kind, I mean).

I'm intrigued about what you've said. I'm wondering how you see the difference between character development and plot. (Or between character arc and plot? Do you see character arc as the same thing as character development?) I'm asking these questions because I'm interested in the insights that your point of view might offer.

 

[cryaegm]

I think I half-ass my outlines. I write a couple of sentences for what happens (e.g. This character does X. This character does Y. This happens here and here. This character sees other character do Z.), and I organize it all using a web diagram. Sometimes I don't even finish the outline before I start writing since I don't know what will happen in said story yet. I will have the first few chapters outline, have the middle chapters outlined, then I'll have the end outlined. The chapters not outlined end up blank until I get to them in the story. Then I'll go back and connect all the dots, or most of them for the first draft.

Some things might be missing when the first draft is done. That's okay for me because I'll have the story help me out on what might be missing and I can add it in when I revise. Sometimes a scene or two gets added to the outlined chapters, but the chapter outlines are usually just bare bones to begin with. The details and everything else are added as I write the story.

I choose to do a web diagram because I found it works best for me. I'm not wordy then and I can still add to the chapters while still sticking to the original outline.

 

[Axordil]

I need to find an old copy of Microsoft Project to see how a Gantt chart works as a structuring tool.

 

[Linda Adams]

I'm intrigued about what you've said. I'm wondering how you see the difference between character development and plot. (Or between character arc and plot? Do you see character arc as the same thing as character development?) I'm asking these questions because I'm interested in the insights that your point of view might offer.

I know for me character development is a different animal from a character arc. Characterization is one of my strengths, and yet, I have enormous difficulty getting character arcs into the book. That may be because I'm also good at plot, but I tend to get such a laser-like focus on plot that it's easy for me to leave things out.

 

[Nivarion]

I generally write by the seat of my pants. I have a general idea of where the story is going, and what sort of scenes the characters have told me about, but they change and grow as I write and change the scene frequently.

Last night when I was writing I got to a scene I have been visualizing for months, and it ended up playing completely different than I had seen it in my head. Because the characters emotions had changed in the conversation before and the MC was looking out for this other character.

Seat of the pants writing is epic fun though. The story is unfolding for you like you're an original reader. Sometimes I get to where I must write the next page like I must read the next page.

 

[Calle Jay]

I can't do outlines at all. They kill my writing mojo too damned quick!

And...I don't write linearly at all, either. I might have the beginning chapters, a few middle chapters, an ending, etc. all jumbled up in the first draft. When it comes editing time, I'll drag and drop into place until the story just kind of *snaps* into where it needs to go.

And I sincerely believe it happens when I...

Know my characters. Inside and out.

In my writing every action or event is caused by something that happened earlier. And then my characters have to react to those somethings. Will my anal, overly organized character do this? Will my flighty social character act this way in this situation? Is it believable? Is it realistic for the world I've set up? No? Then it doesn't go in the book. Would they say this or that? Would they panic? Lash out? Turn all melty-gooey-lovey-dovey? Yes? No?

Then during the editing phase (I usually do three drafts per book) I'll read it in order, do any rearranging needed, then write gap-filler scenes/revise scenes to make them fit the later events.

And I always, always, always ask "Is this a logical behavior for my character/situation?"

And that's about it.

 

[kuwisdelu]

I'm intrigued about what you've said. I'm wondering how you see the difference between character development and plot. (Or between character arc and plot? Do you see character arc as the same thing as character development?) I'm asking these questions because I'm interested in the insights that your point of view might offer.

Some people might use the the terms differently, but most people seem to use character development and characterization more or less interchangeably to describe the process of building and painting a picture of a character vividly in the reader's mind.

By character arc I mean the trajectory of the character through life and through the story, their growth and lapses, and how they change, for better or worse.

I see plot as the external events. The "what happens". But experience is more than just the sum of events that happen to you. It's the experiences that I'm more interested in capturing than a particular set of events. How do you feel when going through something like losing a loved one or a moving on after a failed relationship?

That's my starting point. The seed of my plot is often a concept, a central image or metaphor, that becomes the building block of whatever events transpire.

That's why I often end up writing magic realism. If a break-up feels like the end of the world, and a break-up is the kind of story I want to tell, then the plot that arises from the character arc I want to convey might include, well, the end of the world. Because that's what the character feels.

 

[>compass<]

I am a pants flyer. I have this uncanny way of inserting some plot point/object/person/whatever somewhere in the story that becomes very useful to advancing the plot later without ever planning it. It's like pulling on an old pair of jeans and finding $20 in one of the pockets.

 

[Oldbrasscat]

It's good to see other people out there who write like I do. I can usually write fairly linearly for the first three chapters, then the ending gets written, then a few in the middle. And, compass? I do the same thing--insert things for no reason I can think of, only to have them become incredibly important later on.

I often say my subconscious is a better writer than I am.

 

[ap123]

I'm a linear writer, but I think it's because I don't do much in the way of outlining. I think about a new story forever before I begin writing, make some character notes, external/internal motivation, setting, and then start writing. Usually, once I've got the first few chapters, I'll write a few sentences worth of outline a couple of chapters in advance--POV character, where, major event, but this can change while I'm writing those chapters.

Once a chapter is completed, I do keep notes on each so as not to get confused as I go further along (names, ages, brief what happened).

I have a composition book for each manuscript, all notes are in the book.

 

[Bufty]

Non-outliners? John le Carre.

Debates over outlining or not outlining never seem to get anywhere except back to where they start.

Just because we prefer to use one method and can't or don't want to use the other doesn't mean we can't appreciate that the other method works equally well for others.

I'm not in the least surprised that some folk outline even though I prefer not to and the reverse should be the case, too.

 

[onesecondglance]

What I can't figure out is how outliners can outline a scene without having written what happens before it? Even if you have an idea of what should happen in a scene, how do you know what really happens until you write it?

I usually have an idea of where I want to go, sometimes more concrete than others. But I can't really know what happens in the next scene until I've experienced the scenes before it, so outlining is kind of fruitless for me (and tends to kill the fun).

It's kind of like how I have to go back and read a whole page to figure out if a word choice in the very last line is any good. (Everyone does that, right?)

It's an interesting question, and one I see coming up a lot in these sort of threads. I suppose it really depends what kind of outline you do. Mine tend to be like a menu - I work out what courses there are going to be and in what order they will happen.

I then have to write the actual thing - which, in this tortuous analogy, is cooking each course of the menu - and, in doing that, I can tell if the rest of the outline is going to work. It may not, in which case I adapt it as I go. Where I go "off-plan", I finish the scene I'm on and when update the outline so I know where I'm heading for the rest of it.

The major benefit of an outline for me is to save myself from getting caught in decision-making. I'm terrible for agonising over plot points, and without having worked out the big stuff up front I can get bogged down and never actually finish the story. I have enough songs I've shelved because I can't work out what goes next - I don't want to add novels to that list...

Debates over outlining or not outlining never seem to get anywhere except back to where they start.

Just because we prefer to use one method and can't or don't want to use the other doesn't mean we can't appreciate that the other method works equally well for others.

I'm not in the least surprised that some folk outline even though I prefer not to and the reverse should be the case, too.

Yup.