A curious thing

[Jerome Price]

Back about a 100 years ago when I was in college, I was taking some writing classes needed for my major (Broadcast Communications) which kinda got me interested in creative writing. Fast forward to 2018, I'm now retired, with a little time on my hands. I ended up taking a couple courses out at the local community college, one of them a creative writing class. Well...
Between the years of 1974 and 2018 something has gone dreadfully wrong. Now mind you, here I am a guy 68 years old sitting in a class of 18+ year old kids who can't figure out what this old guy is doing there. Well as you might guess, we had to do a lot of reading, and writing (on computers of all things) One long story, one short story, and a piece of flash fiction okay no problem. We also had to read and listen to other people's work. Well, needless to say, I not only learned about the modern short story but the state of modern education as well...pack up kids, it's all over!

Imagination and creativity is a thing of the past (for the most part)

Nobody could write about things in general, every story centered around the author (me, I, myself)

Kids aren't required to read the classics anymore

A couple of the facility started an English club but the only way they could get any attendance was to offer free pizza
There were a few other things that concerned me but I won't go into them. However, out of a class of twenty, only two showed any signs of creativity or a possible career in writing.

 

[cornflake]

Back about a 100 years ago when I was in college, I was taking some writing classes needed for my major (Broadcast Communications) which kinda got me interested in creative writing. Fast forward to 2018, I'm now retired, with a little time on my hands. I ended up taking a couple courses out at the local community college, one of them a creative writing class. Well...
Between the years of 1974 and 2018 something has gone dreadfully wrong. Now mind you, here I am a guy 68 years old sitting in a class of 18+ year old kids who can't figure out what this old guy is doing there. Well as you might guess, we had to do a lot of reading, and writing (on computers of all things) One long story, one short story, and a piece of flash fiction okay no problem. We also had to read and listen to other people's work. Well, needless to say, I not only learned about the modern short story but the state of modern education as well...pack up kids, it's all over!

Imagination and creativity is a thing of the past (for the most part)

Nobody could write about things in general, every story centered around the author (me, I, myself)

Kids aren't required to read the classics anymore

A couple of the facility started an English club but the only way they could get any attendance was to offer free pizza
There were a few other things that concerned me but I won't go into them. However, out of a class of twenty, only two showed any signs of creativity or a possible career in writing.

You were expecting every kid in a community college writing class to want or be somehow geared toward a career in writing? What? Were you preparing for, or even interested in, a career in the subject of every college class you took?

Every kid I know is required to read classics of some sort -- a school I know has juniors read the entirety of Moby Dick (in addition to other things), which is just sadism.

Telling people to write about themselves, or write what they know, is common advice, especially for beginning writers. In addition, they're basically teenagers -- what things in general do you want them to write about, with their vast stores of life experience? It sounds like you're judging kids in community college -- LEARNING -- as if they were experienced people applying for jobs with their coursework.

 

[Marissa D]

However, out of a class of twenty, only two showed any signs of creativity or a possible career in writing.

Sounds about right for the proportion of writers/other creatives in the population at large.

Also, what cornflake said.

Just curious--is there something wrong with writing on computers?

 

[PyriteFool]

Oh dear, there is a lot to unpack here.

Look, I’m not even ten years out of high school and unless 1984, A Tale of Two Cities, Crime and Punishment, and Pride and Prejudice are not longer considered classics, I think the Western literary canon is safe. Now I did grow up in a relatively privileged area. Or are you trying to say schools are teaching these books but students aren’t reading them? Because I’m pretty sure dodging the reading has been a tradition for as long as education has existed. It wasn’t invented in 2018.

A lot of community college students have jobs, families, and other responsibilities. That might explain low attendance at the English club better than the theory that “kids these days” don’t value literature.

As Marissa D said, 10% is actually pretty good. Though I question how you feel so confident in gauging someone’s potential when they are just learning their craft. Which is the entire point of a class. Most of these students are young, they don’t have the craft experience OR life experience to write at a professional level. Thats’s okay! It’s why these courses exist! Also to fill course credits, which tbh is what a lot of those people were their to do, not kickstart their writing career. This is also fine.

Why the need to pass judgement? I totally get the urge to snark at amateur writing efforts (I’m petty, I’ll admit that), but if you want to write about complex social issues, which I assume you do based on your posts about your current MS, I’d expect a more nuanced take than “kids these days!”

Oh god, now I’m flashing back to the stuff I wrote at 17...

ETA: Is “courious” and intentional misspelling?

 

[lizmonster]

Imagination and creativity is a thing of the past (for the most part)

Respectfully, I have to disagree. I write SFF, and I'm astonished every month at the beautiful work coming from new writers, many of them in their early 20s. Imagination and creativity abound, much to my personal delight.

Nobody could write about things in general, every story centered around the author (me, I, myself)

I'm not sure this is really a problem, especially for beginning creative writing students. Learning narrative structure while also finding your voice takes time and practice, and for some students writing about themselves is the easiest way to begin. Kudos to them for going through this in a classroom situation--it takes courage to expose yourself to a pack of strangers like that.

Kids aren't required to read the classics anymore

This is variable, of course. My kid (9th grade) just had to read Of Mice and Men. I'm of two minds about "the classics," really, and I'm not convinced there are any works of literature out there that Must! Be! Read! except for historical and/or cultural interest. Which may be enough, of course (and it's interesting that whatever my issues with OMaM, the observations about generational poverty and hopelessness are applicable to the modern day, but that also makes me wonder about modern work that might serve the same educational purpose), but I'm not the only person who wonders sometimes if our "classic" literature curriculum could use a little airing out.

However, out of a class of twenty, only two showed any signs of creativity or a possible career in writing.

Ten percent? That's terrific!

I'd also point out that it's impossible to tell, from a writer's beginning work, if they're ever going to "make it" or not. We all learn at different rates, and at different times.

(I'd also suggest that maybe taking a CC writing course doesn't necessarily mean a person is longing for a writing career.)

Just curious--is there something wrong with writing on computers?

I've never thought so, but I had a writing teacher in college (back in 1985) who got Most Annoyed when he found out I composed at the computer (a DEC TOPS-20 system; I had to go to the lab to write). He agreed to let me do it, but he felt quite strongly the only proper writing was done with pen (not pencil) and paper, without ever crossing anything out. (This was a man who confused his own personal methods with Gospel.)

Today? You can pry my laptop from my cold, dead hands, thanks.

 

[Coddiwomple]

Between the years of 1974 and 2018 something has gone dreadfully wrong. Now mind you, here I am a guy 68 years old sitting in a class of 18+ year old kids who can't figure out what this old guy is doing there. Well as you might guess, we had to do a lot of reading, and writing (on computers of all things) One long story, one short story, and a piece of flash fiction okay no problem. We also had to read and listen to other people's work. Well, needless to say, I not only learned about the modern short story but the state of modern education as well...pack up kids, it's all over!

Imagination and creativity is a thing of the past (for the most part)

Not to pile on, (honest) but I'd like to respectfully suggest that perhaps your sample may not have been truly representative of the entire generation. And even if they were, there is more often than not a lot more going on inside a reticent teenager, hunched in the corner of a classroom, than is apparent on the surface.

I work at a four-year college, have taken numerous classes that involved a high level of interaction -- including a three-week study abroad -- and proudly claim two twenty-something children of my own. I am constantly astounded by the breadth of creativity and admittedly weirdly-inconsistent intellect of these fascinating people.

Yes, things have changed -- I see a disturbing amount of anxiety lurking just beneath the surface of many of them -- but the kids are all right. It's the crap we're leaving for them that's the real trouble.

 

[AW Admin]

Imagination and creativity is a thing of the past (for the most part)

Nobody could write about things in general, every story centered around the author (me, I, myself)

It's the age of the students, not the era.

Kids aren't required to read the classics anymore

Sure they are. But "the classics" aren't necessarily what you think or want them to be.

A couple of the facility started an English club but the only way they could get any attendance was to offer free pizza
There were a few other things that concerned me but I won't go into them. However, out of a class of twenty, only two showed any signs of creativity or a possible career in writing.

I think you mean faculty; a facility is a building. I am known to dissuade people who want to write fiction for a career. It's rarely a viable career choice.

 

[Jerome Price]

You were expecting every kid in a community college writing class to want or be somehow geared toward a career in writing? What? Were you preparing for, or even interested in, a career in the subject of every college class you took?

Every kid I know is required to read classics of some sort -- a school I know has juniors read the entirety of Moby Dick (in addition to other things), which is just sadism.

Telling people to write about themselves, or write what they know, is common advice, especially for beginning writers. In addition, they're basically teenagers -- what things in general do you want them to write about, with their vast stores of life experience? It sounds like you're judging kids in community college -- LEARNING -- as if they were experienced people applying for jobs with their coursework.

Oh I understand about all that, I guess I was just surprised by the lack of creativity and in some cases indifference I encountered. Certainly a lot different that when I was in college in the 70's.

 

[Jerome Price]

Sounds about right for the proportion of writers/other creatives in the population at large.

Also, what cornflake said.

Just curious--is there something wrong with writing on computers?

No, nothing at all, I do all my writing on a computer, just a big change from my previous classroom experience

 

[Jerome Price]

Not to pile on, (honest) but I'd like to respectfully suggest that perhaps your sample may not have been truly representative of the entire generation. And even if they were, there is more often than not a lot more going on inside a reticent teenager, hunched in the corner of a classroom, than is apparent on the surface.

I work at a four-year college, have taken numerous classes that involved a high level of interaction -- including a three-week study abroad -- and proudly claim two twenty-something children of my own. I am constantly astounded by the breadth of creativity and admittedly weirdly-inconsistent intellect of these fascinating people.

Yes, things have changed -- I see a disturbing amount of anxiety lurking just beneath the surface of many of them -- but the kids are all right. It's the crap we're leaving for them that's the real trouble.

Don't get me wrong, I ran into some bright kids there, and I am taking into account it was a community college. However, at times it seemed like I was back in high school if you know what I mean.

 

[lizmonster]

Don't get me wrong, I ran into some bright kids there, and I am taking into account it was a community college. However, at times it seemed like I was back in high school if you know what I mean.

For reference, I'm younger than you, but not by a lot (I'm 54).

It's worth remembering that college follows high school, and people mature at different rates. AW Admin has it right: most of what you're talking about here has to do with youth in general - and keep in mind some young people will work very hard to appear unconcerned about things that in reality matter to them a great deal. Just by virtue of the generational divide, you're missing a huge amount of context about their behaviors.

We also tend to redact our own memories, especially over time. I suspect if you could take a time machine back to your college days, you'd see a lot there that reminds you of this CC class.

I do understand if the class isn't giving you what you expected, though. It can be hard coming in as a much older student - I've done that, too! For me, I found the best thing I could do when I felt isolated by generational differences was to focus on my own work, and get what I could out of the class and the assignments.

I also found that the relative youth of most of my classmates didn't mean I couldn't learn from them - as it happens, an artist doesn't have to be particularly experienced to give a solid, useful crit. After a while I learned that for most of my classmates the age difference wasn't important; what mattered was what we could learn from each other, which turned out to be a lot.

Not that you asked for advice. But I'd suggest using the class time to work on your own writing, without comparing yourself to the others, and keep an open mind.

 

[Jerome Price]

All right, all right, UNCLE! I surrender. You all make valid points and I'm certainly not castigating a whole generation. Truth be told, I was probably that way when I was 18 but here's the thing; In my normal everyday life, which includes my friends and all the co-workers I've known over the years, very few ever picked up a book after high school. From time to time people will come to the house and remark at all the books I have in my bookcases and on the shelves, "Have you read all those books? The point I'm driving at is unlike most people I love to read. I don't get many opportunities to talk books or literature with people or even get them to read the stuff I've written. So when I took that writing class in hopes of sharpening my skills a little bit I expected something better than what I found. Okay, fine, being 68 years old you have acquired a lifetime of interacting, and yes, even judging people. Sorry, but that's life, unfortunately, a great many people I've met over the years have come up short, not my fault I deal with it and move on. I stand by my original premise in that a problem has been building over the years in education and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

 

[cornflake]

Oh I understand about all that, I guess I was just surprised by the lack of creativity and in some cases indifference I encountered. Certainly a lot different that when I was in college in the 70's.

I wasn't there, but I find it really hard to believe everyone in college in the 70s was really serious about their studies.

All right, all right, UNCLE! I surrender. You all make valid points and I'm certainly not castigating a whole generation. Truth be told, I was probably that way when I was 18 but here's the thing; In my normal everyday life, which includes my friends and all the co-workers I've known over the years, very few ever picked up a book after high school. From time to time people will come to the house and remark at all the books I have in my bookcases and on the shelves, "Have you read all those books? The point I'm driving at is unlike most people I love to read. I don't get many opportunities to talk books or literature with people or even get them to read the stuff I've written. So when I took that writing class in hopes of sharpening my skills a little bit I expected something better than what I found. Okay, fine, being 68 years old you have acquired a lifetime of interacting, and yes, even judging people. Sorry, but that's life, unfortunately, a great many people I've met over the years have come up short, not my fault I deal with it and move on. I stand by my original premise in that a problem has been building over the years in education and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

You're again generalizing to people as a whole from the very small sample of people you know. I don't think I know anyone (I'm sure I probably do, but no one I know well enough to actually know) who doesn't read books.

If we're just talking about your experience vs. mine, they're equally likely to be representative. However, science says my experience is more common. Only a quarter of the adults in the U.S. say they haven't read a book in the past year (again, in the past year, not since school [for most people]). There are also, you may note, more people who said they've read at least one book in the 18-49 age group than those over 50.

The average number of books read by people in the past year is somewhere between 4 and 12

One notable aspect of the data is that people tend to read less as they age. Fully 80 percent of 18–29-year-olds reported reading at least one book, compared to 69 percent of seniors (65+).

I don't know what you expected from a community college creative writing course, but I wonder what level course it was -- and also why not take a course at a writing institute or some similar place, or find a critique group or something, if you're looking for people who all are interested in the subject and want to be there and are likely to be more experienced writers than the kids you met.

 

[lizmonster]

I stand by my original premise in that a problem has been building over the years in education and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

I won't argue that we've allowed the public education system in the US to degrade far too much. There are regional differences, of course, but at the risk of becoming political, we need to be putting our money where our mouth is where the next generation is concerned.

That said: all my daughter's Of Mice and Men assignment did was remind me how very much I dislike Steinbeck.

AW is a great place to discuss books, by the way - I know it's not like having an in-person peer group to chat with, but we're (almost!) all readers here.

 

[PyriteFool]

AW is a great place to discuss books, by the way - I know it's not like having an in-person peer group to chat with, but we're (almost!) all readers here.

And anyone who isn’t a reader is swiftly evangelized to We must all hear the good Word of the...word.

Agreed, US public education needs an overhaul. I have so many teacher friends, and they deserve better, along with their students.

 

[pseudowriter]

Dude, when I was taking Creative Writing courses back in college (erm... 20+ years ago now, ugh), I was CONVINCED I was going to write the next "Best American Novel EVAH"! And I was wicked, wicked angsty.

Did I show promise at the time? Maybe?

Was I particularly imaginative? Umm... no, no, I don't think I was.

Perhaps instead of assuming that our youth (American or not) are all doomed to write unimaginative drivel, look inward instead. Maybe show (or try to show) interest in what them youngin's are into. Start a conversation. Have one of them teach you about technology and all its glorious wonder. Seed some relationships. Use your wisdom to help these kids learn about some classics, but don't shut them down if they try to share something with you. Simply being interested and being engaged can go a long way with an impressionable youth. Your super power of age and experience could make an impact.

And that's my very opinionated rant for today. Cheers!

 

[pseudowriter]

All right, all right, UNCLE! I surrender. You all make valid points and I'm certainly not castigating a whole generation. Truth be told, I was probably that way when I was 18 but here's the thing; In my normal everyday life, which includes my friends and all the co-workers I've known over the years, very few ever picked up a book after high school. From time to time people will come to the house and remark at all the books I have in my bookcases and on the shelves, "Have you read all those books? The point I'm driving at is unlike most people I love to read. I don't get many opportunities to talk books or literature with people or even get them to read the stuff I've written. So when I took that writing class in hopes of sharpening my skills a little bit I expected something better than what I found. Okay, fine, being 68 years old you have acquired a lifetime of interacting, and yes, even judging people. Sorry, but that's life, unfortunately, a great many people I've met over the years have come up short, not my fault I deal with it and move on. I stand by my original premise in that a problem has been building over the years in education and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

One other suggestion, if you're keen. Have you thought about joining a group? You can search for Meet-Up groups in your area... people who gather to talk books, writing, whatever. I did that when I moved to Scotland and made a lot of relationships that was with other writers and readers (many of which are gentlemen around your age).

Anywho, just a thought. If you want to check it out, Google 'Meet-Up' and go from there.