Modern things in a Fantast world.

thecraftteens · Apr 17, 2008

Modern things in a Fantasy world.

I am trying to re-write my fantasy novel, the first in my series. I am having a problem though. I can't help but include things that exist in our world, like dogs, cats, grocery stores, pens and pencils. Is this okay? It seems a little weird for the Fantasy genre....

My characters live on an island that was discovered by their ancestors. I want to shy away from being like Harry Potter and making everything medieval (sp?) like. A lot of people that have read the 1st draft say it has a lot of HP parallels, which I am trying to get rid of.

My characters go to a school and they are witches and warlocks, but the school is not magical in any way. I also keep wanting to put things like elevators, cars, and modern day houses.

Can someone help me?

Hummingbird · Apr 17, 2008

My current WIP is an 'Urban Fantasy' or a modern-day-in-town-type Fantasy. I've got cars, TV, video games, and all sorts of things. ^_^ The main character even hangs out at the Public Library a couple times.

Don't worry too much. If it fits for your story, put it in there. XD

kct webber · Apr 17, 2008

I agree with Hummingbird. If it fits and it is explainable, put it in. I've got nothing against a warlock driving to the cafe and surfing the internet--as long as it's supported by the rules of your world.

Colin McHale · Apr 17, 2008

Well, as was pointed out in the 'Guns in Fantasy' thread, just because your genre is fantasy doesn't mean it has to be medieval.

If your story is "telling" you there should be grocery stores, elevators, cars, and such, then why not listen? It might be for the better.

Straka · Apr 18, 2008

I think the trick really is that it all makes sense. I'm reading another friends work were one nation just invented muskets why another already as a monorail transit system. I told him to be that's just to much of a stretch and suggested that he not call it a monorail, to get rid of the modern feel and explain it as more magical in nature

Zelenka · Apr 18, 2008

What I do if I want to introduce an element that feels 'modern' into a fantasy novel is I do a bit of quick research into how that element was invented here. Would the people in that fantasy world have similar resources, even if they don't have factories or the likes to make the thing as we do here? For an example out of my own fantasy WIP, I wanted to have very early-style motorcars in it, so I looked into how things like the Ford Model T were contructed, what sorts of fuel the early models could use, and figured how, with the technology my people have, they could have made something similar.

My new WIP is actually set in a magic school on a rock in the middle of nowhere and I'm trying my best to distance it from Harry Potter, but since mine is focussed on the teaching staff rather than the students, and I'm going for a more 'realist' approach to it, if such a thing is possible, hopefully it is.

Very best of luck with your story!

dirtsider · Apr 18, 2008

I'm another person who is doing an urban fantasy. In my case, I'm building my magic system on how magic evolved over time - from the ancient religions to the occult/ritualist to Wicca.

Sarpedon · Apr 18, 2008

Yeah, the pencil thing is tough. a purely modern convenience.

The ancient Romans carried around wax tablets, and made notes on them with metal styluses. To erase, they would rub the thing out with their fingers, and periodically they would melt and re-pour the wax. I have one guy in my story who uses this.

Another common ancient substitute was chalk and a piece of broken pottery.

Dogs and cats have been around us for thousands of years. there's no problem with that.

Zelenka · Apr 18, 2008

Sarpedon said:
Yeah, the pencil thing is tough. a purely modern convenience.

The ancient Romans carried around wax tablets, and made notes on them with metal styluses. To erase, they would rub the thing out with their fingers, and periodically they would melt and re-pour the wax. I have one guy in my story who uses this.

Another common ancient substitute was chalk and a piece of broken pottery.

Dogs and cats have been around us for thousands of years. there's no problem with that.

Saying that though, I researched pencil history (don't know if I should admit to that) for a historical fiction and found out they'd been around a while. I don't recall the exact date but I kept it in my story, set in 1645, after doing the research. If you google 'pencil history' there is a pencil museum somewhere in England that comes up and that's where I got a lot of the information from.

Sarpedon · Apr 18, 2008

Yeah, I know there were earlier graphite thingys, like things that had metal holders for the graphite.

By 'pencil' I was assuming he meant the more modern, wood and graphite thing, which is an industrial product I believe.

The fact is lots of things have existed in some form or another pre-industrial, but were entirely different before hand. Like pins. Sure they've been around forever, but once upon a time a pin was an expensive thing. Can you imagine? The same with pencils. Sure there were pre-industrial pencils, but they couldn't have been common. Most people would have used a charred stick rather than a pencil.

Zelenka · Apr 18, 2008

Sarpedon said:
Yeah, I know there were earlier graphite thingys, like things that had metal holders for the graphite.

By 'pencil' I was assuming he meant the more modern, wood and graphite thing, which is an industrial product I believe.

The fact is lots of things have existed in some form or another pre-industrial, but were entirely different before hand. Like pins. Sure they've been around forever, but once upon a time a pin was an expensive thing. Can you imagine? The same with pencils. Sure there were pre-industrial pencils, but they couldn't have been common. Most people would have used a charred stick rather than a pencil.

That's what I meant about looking into the history and manufacture of the thing though - what could be very difficult and expensive to a pre-industrial society here might not be so difficult in a fantasy world. It depends on your set-up.

And I have to admit that I don't have pencils in my school-based WIP - it's slates for the young ones then pen and ink when they get older.

Sarpedon · Apr 18, 2008

Well if magic is so common it can be used to make pencils, why not dispense with the pencils entirely, and write with magic?

that may just be me. I have a strong prejudice against high magic fantasy worlds. Inevitably in high magic fantasy worlds, the plot problems are solved by--magic! Also, the magic tends to grow to resemble technology. Which I find less than satisfying.

Zelenka · Apr 18, 2008

Sarpedon said:
Well if magic is so common it can be used to make pencils, why not dispense with the pencils entirely, and write with magic?

that may just be me. I have a strong prejudice against high magic fantasy worlds. Inevitably in high magic fantasy worlds, the plot problems are solved by--magic! Also, the magic tends to grow to resemble technology. Which I find less than satisfying.

I don't mean magic necessarily, and actually hadn't thought of that. But your world might have different natural resources, different minerals, a certain type of plant that is ideal for making pencils out of or a tree that pencils grow on...okay, being a bit silly there, but that's what I meant. I wasn't specifically talking about pencils either to be honest, but just any modern thing in particular. All I was trying to say was that it helps to look at the very early stages of production for a thing, where they started from, how they were made originally. Quite often there's a lot of ideas there that fit in well with fantasy societies.

thecraftteens · Apr 18, 2008

Thank you, Jess, Sarpedon, and others who responded. You helped A LOT! I think I'll get rid of the modern conveniences and only use them if it can be made from something on the island.

geardrops · Apr 18, 2008

To echo: Just make sure it all works in the context of the novel. Maybe fridges and microwaves work. Maybe they don't. You have to sort that out.

If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Write it with confidence, and if it doesn't pan out, at least you know you gave it your best shot.

maxmordon · Apr 18, 2008

Sarpedon said:
Well if magic is so common it can be used to make pencils, why not dispense with the pencils entirely, and write with magic?

that may just be me. I have a strong prejudice against high magic fantasy worlds. Inevitably in high magic fantasy worlds, the plot problems are solved by--magic! Also, the magic tends to grow to resemble technology. Which I find less than satisfying.

Me too, that's why I don't have magic in my world.

Why not to be original make make people write with brushes?

Sarpedon · Apr 18, 2008

Thats not original. Thats China, Korea and Japan.

maxmordon · Apr 18, 2008

Sarpedon said:
Thats not original. Thats China, Korea and Japan.

I know... but I meant original in the sense that outside Western world...

Smiling Ted · Apr 19, 2008

thecraftteens said:
Thank you, Jess, Sarpedon, and others who responded. You helped A LOT! I think I'll get rid of the modern conveniences and only use them if it can be made from something on the island.

There's a series of books out there called "Everyday Life in...." Elizabethan England, a Medieval Village, and so on. See if you can find them at your library. Even one or two of the pre-industrial ones would give you a solid context and help you make more informed decisions.

Sarpedon · Apr 21, 2008

Oh yeah, I've got the one on everyday life in ancient egypt.

JohnB1988 · Apr 21, 2008

If you’re interested in pre-modern, but not ancient, technology there’s Lindsay Publications who specialize in reprinting technology books from the 1800’s and thereabouts. Books and books of absolutely fascinating stuff, if you’re like me you’ll end up giving them a fortune. And yeah, those old guys did things way differently, but sometimes (often) the end product was equal to anything we have today. IE-- they had pure metallic sodium-- and they didn’t use electrolysis to produce it. You’d be hard pressed to find a chemist who could do that today.

Modern things in a Fantast world.

thecraftteens

Hummingbird

Pen, Paper, Prepared. ...Write!

kct webber

Squirrel, Sekrit type, 1 ea.

Colin McHale

Straka

Bored Fanatic

Zelenka

Going home!

dirtsider

Not so new, really

Sarpedon

Zelenka

Going home!

Sarpedon

Zelenka

Going home!

Sarpedon

Zelenka

Going home!

thecraftteens

geardrops

Good thing I like my day job

maxmordon

Penúltimo

Sarpedon

maxmordon

Penúltimo

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!

Sarpedon

JohnB1988