The Process And The Goal

egads · Apr 14, 2008

The Process And The Goal.

Moderator edit:

I merged the comments that were left behind in the abandoned Basic Writing Questions thread with this one.

-Derek

egads · Apr 14, 2008

Self-reminder.

Process, process, process!

A friend of mine is a huge Billy Joel fan. He recently told me that the prolific songwriter had once been quoted as saying (something like): I do not enjoy writing songs. I enjoy having written them.

When my friend finished telling me this, I found myself secretly understanding what Mr. Joel meant. As writers, I’m sure there are many of us who sometimes feel this way. Not all of the time, but often. It is a frame of mind that I do not like to feed, because it is a frame of mind that seems to completely miss the point of “being a writer”. Writing is hard, yes, and I don’t believe that one needs to always enjoy it, but one should love it; and by “it”, of course, I mean the process.

I find myself in constant need of reminders that writing itself is the goal. My daily bread. Finishing the novel is only a byproduct of that discipline, and publication only a byproduct of that. Being satisfied with little bites can sometimes be difficult when I feel as if I just want to be done. But if one writes, then what else is there?

It certainly feels good to “have written”…especially when others enjoy the finished product…but in the end, it always seems to come back to this daily meditation before the word processor. The flow, the struggle, the surrender, the coffee, the small victories, and the subtle defeats. The work.

DeleyanLee · Apr 14, 2008

Maybe it's just me, but the way I look at it is that a writer writes, and author has written.

While it's nice being an author (especially if it's an author who's getting paid, so I hope), being a writer is where the challenge is. Scene from mind to paper is an incredible challenge that just never ends. No matter how many scenes I've written, how many words have flowed from fingertip to book, it's always a new challenge to find the new twist, the new vision, to get it right in every moment.

That's what makes me enjoy being a writer more than being an author. An author knows how to write the book they've finished. A writer is still exploring the wonders of the challenge and is constantly learning.

I don't see that as a goal. To me, it's just a way of being.

ACEnders · Apr 14, 2008

egads said:
I find myself in constant need of reminders that writing itself is the goal. My daily bread. Finishing the novel is only a byproduct of that discipline, and publication only a byproduct of that. Being satisfied with little bites can sometimes be difficult when I feel as if I just want to be done. But if one writes, then what else is there?

It certainly feels good to “have written”…especially when others enjoy the finished product…but in the end, it always seems to come back to this daily meditation before the word processor. The flow, the struggle, the surrender, the coffee, the small victories, and the subtle defeats. The work.

I think that was written beautifully, and I totally agree. There are days when I make myself write. Not because I'm enjoying it at the time but because it's in me and I have to and because ultimately, I love writing. But there are days when it's hard, when it's not easy, when I want to pick up my laptop and throw it across the room. There are times when I sit in front of the screen and try to make something work, only succeeding in turning out something below my worth.

I have to remind myself why I do it. I haven't even found an agent yet. But I have to remind myself of that feeling I get when I complete another chapter, when I get the characters right. When I make the story come together. I have to remind myself that I love to write.

And eventually, the process leads us to that ultimate high of completion.

raegan_1 · Apr 14, 2008

Very well written, and a timely reminder for me. The destination is never so important as the journey there.

gettingby · Apr 14, 2008

Being a writer is a job. Maybe, for you, it is more of a hobby. There is nothing wrong with that. But maybe you are over thinking it. I did not start calling myself a writer until I was published and getting paid. But I think of it as my job and not who I am. It is what I do.

Phaeal · Apr 14, 2008

Many published writers have said that the process never loses its challenge. And why should it, unless the writer stops challenging himself? So writer, author. No big difference to me.

As for when you can call yourself a writer? Any day you've written. Publication has nothing to do with it.

Phaeal · Apr 14, 2008

Whoever said love was easy?

shelboselby · Apr 14, 2008

That's what I keep having to remind myself. That's why I've pledged to write something on my new novel everyday, even it's only ten words.

But yes, I think that old adage can be applied to writing -- "I love you, but I don't have to like you right now."

~grace~ · Apr 14, 2008

egads said:
A friend of mine is a huge Billy Joel fan. He recently told me that the prolific songwriter had once been quoted as saying (something like): I do not enjoy writing songs. I enjoy having written them.

Dorothy Parker: "I hate writing; I love having written."

She predates Billy Joel by a bit.

But it remains true, no matter who said it.

scribbler1382 · Apr 14, 2008

First time I heard it was when Murray Slaughter on the The Mary Tyler Moore show said it. But source aside, for me, it doesn't quite hold true. I love writing, I like having written, but I absolutely despise the time just before I start to write. For me that's when all the angst, fear, self-doubt and procrastination come into play. Once my butt is in the chair and my fingers are moving, all is well. Until next time, of course.

scope · Apr 14, 2008

I think gettingby has it right. Any and everyone can write, but as far as I'm concerned the primary difference is why one writes.

One can write as a hobby with no intention of being published or with the hope or desire that what they write will have meaning to others. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with that. It's a hobby like any other hobby.

On the other hand there are writers whose efforts are directed to being published and who write as a means to make money (now or in the future).

Writer -- Author -- semantics. The important thing is to know why you are writing and to conduct yourself accordingly. If you are looking for "definitions" you could call a writer a person who has never been published and
an author as someone who has been traditionally published. Does that work for you?

ishtar'sgate · Apr 14, 2008

scribbler1382 said:
First time I heard it was when Murray Slaughter on the The Mary Tyler Moore show said it. But source aside, for me, it doesn't quite hold true. I love writing, I like having written, but I absolutely despise the time just before I start to write. For me that's when all the angst, fear, self-doubt and procrastination come into play. Once my butt is in the chair and my fingers are moving, all is well. Until next time, of course.

EXACTLY!! I do a lot of research before I begin to write so I can delay, delay, delay. Although I'm miserable when I procrastinate, I'm afraid my writing will be crapola so all my creativity goes into planning new ways to avoid planting my behind in my chair and getting on with it. Openings give me hives but once I'm past the first few paragraphs it's fun again and I can stay the course.
Linnea

Lyxdeslic · Apr 14, 2008

First, I really enjoyed the op. I'm glad for you that you have formed this outlook.

That said, I'm the polar opposite: I love writing; I love revising (not initially, but eventually it won me over); but...I HATE having written. By that I mean I start thinking, what do I do now? Great, I wrote a book. I have no idea what to do with it. Landing an agent is ten times the struggle that writing was. Shit. I just wasted a year of my time. Nice one, dumbass.

But again, I'm glad for your view, egads. Don't let me and my pity-party jade you.

Lyx

egads · Apr 14, 2008

scribbler1382 said:
I love writing, I like having written, but I absolutely despise the time just before I start to write. For me that's when all the angst, fear, self-doubt and procrastination come into play. Once my butt is in the chair and my fingers are moving, all is well. Until next time, of course.

Well said. No doubt that is the toughest part of the job for me as well.

Lyxdeslic said:
...I start thinking, what do I do now? Great, I wrote a book.

Lyx

I hear you on that point. No doubt I have had similar feelings when I finish a project. And surly this is a fantastic illustration of how ridiculous it is for me to yearn more for completion than process. Because after the current project is finished, I am almost always straight on to the next thing. Of course when I am in the moment, enveloped in creation, such thoughts of "I wish I were done" are a thousand miles away. It’s true. As scribbler1382 pointed out, such thought are usually most alive just before I begin.

Shweta · Apr 14, 2008

I like writing better than having written myself, but...

I just want to say that I read the title of this thread as "The Princess And The Coal".
Does that say something about me?

jst5150 · Apr 14, 2008

Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly used to hate when people would romanticize their dancing. It was hard work. Practice. Rehearsal. Practice. Rehearsal. And then factor in all the variables of making films and you could see why either would get a little short with people when they'd say, "Boy, you make that look easy." Well, yeah.

This process/result discussion is the crux of a lot of different vocations and professions. In business, the process yields profits when the execution is done right. In creative, something similar could be said.

Of course, the cliche philosophy here is, "It's not about the destination; it's about the journey." And sometimes, that's true. Ultimately, however, you want to get to that point of execution, release that widget to the world and have the glow of 100 arcangels shine upon you. Otherwise, reflecting on all that toil beforehand makes you want to quit it and just toss peanuts at baseball games.

Finally, I always liked the Bill Parcells take on this: "Don't tell me about the birth, just show me the baby."

We can talk romantically about how we get there. What ultimately matters however is what we achieve.

Matera the Mad · Apr 14, 2008

If it's just a job, I'll take one that pays. Writing means a lot mor to me than -- pardon the phrase -- gettingby. :e2point:

Matera the Mad · Apr 14, 2008

We all have the same final result -- a nice, solid tombstone.

Claudia Gray · Apr 14, 2008

I think I'm in the minority, but I actually really enjoy the process. Sometimes I get tired of it, and sometimes it's like hauling rocks, but generally speaking, when I'm writing, I'm having a lot of fun.

Shweta · Apr 14, 2008

Matera the Mad said:
We all have the same final result -- a nice, solid tombstone.

Nono, some of us get cremated.

egads · Apr 14, 2008

jst5150 said:
We can talk romantically about how we get there. What ultimately matters however is what we achieve.

It's an interesting perspective. At the moment I'm feeling more interested in "how" I achieve. Certainly one wants to achieve the big goal at the end of the road, but the reality--from my perspective--is that once the goal is achieved, that moment is quickly lost again. And when one spends months, or years even, working on something as enormous as a novel, then it seems advisable for one to focus on the little achievements, rather than the great big one. So, with that having been said, I suppose I agree with you, if you consider the small achievements on a daily basis.

Of course, this is all clever talk from someone not presently working on a deadline.

jst5150 · Apr 14, 2008

egads said:
Of course, this is all clever talk from someone not presently working on a deadline.

One of my suggestions for folks who want to get published is simply this: finish something. Talking about the process too much while you've got a manuscript sitting around is just a form of mental masturbation. All hunters like to talk about their guns. How many of them actually get out, hunt and kill something with one? To that extent, the hungry family is never concerned about the details of the kill; just the barbecued meat that gets chewed by the campfire that evening.

Back to the original point: the more finished stuff you have in your pocket, the more you can shop it around. The more opportunities you have to be published. Get publicized. Get more contracts. And so on. It is difficult to move on mere speculation.

Besides, the echoes you hear in the canyon come AFTER you've yelled, not while you're thinking about what to say.

'Night.

Shweta · Apr 14, 2008

All true, but being fixated on the goal instead of paying attention to the process is at least as big a pitfall.

Novelhistorian · Apr 14, 2008

ClaudiaGray said:
I think I'm in the minority, but I actually really enjoy the process. Sometimes I get tired of it, and sometimes it's like hauling rocks, but generally speaking, when I'm writing, I'm having a lot of fun.

I agree with this. Some days at the keyboard are frustrating, and they do feel like hauling rocks. But there's always another day. And if too many days go by when I'm not having fun, I start to wonder whether I'm writing the wrong way--I'm forcing the story, the characters don't make sense, the action doesn't feel spontaneous, or maybe I'm not writing the way I like but think I should. So in a way, if I'm not having fun, I'm doing it wrong.

That may not mean that if I'm having fun, I'm doing it right. But if I had a good time, there's a better chance my readers will. And no matter what happens to the book--published or not--I can look back on it with a smile and say, "I had a good time writing that."

The Process And The Goal

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the good old days

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