Fantasy with Magic

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Zelenka

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I'm looking for some reading recommendations again. We have a thread for fantasy novels that don't feature magic, but what I'm looking for are ones that do, in an interesting way or ones you've thought were particularly good. I'm specifically interested in adult fantasy books, though, not young adult or childrens'.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

ETA: I realised I didn't phrase this so well - what I'm after are books where the system of magic or the way magic is used is particularly noteworthy, as opposed to just any book that features magic. Sorry if that was confusing.
 
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sunna

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CJ Cherryh's Fortress series is excellent, IMO. Her magical system is well defined, consistent, logical, and overall pretty interesting. Also Rusalka, Chernevog and Yvgenie by the same author.

I also liked Robin McKinley's Sunshine - less logic and a lot more intuition, and she gives a good feel for how chaotic the experience is for the wielder. Plus, not only do you get magic, but vampires, demons, special police and extravagant baked goods. :)
 

Zelenka

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CJ Cherryh's Fortress series is excellent, IMO. Her magical system is well defined, consistent, logical, and overall pretty interesting. Also Rusalka, Chernevog and Yvgenie by the same author.

I also liked Robin McKinley's Sunshine - less logic and a lot more intuition, and she gives a good feel for how chaotic the experience is for the wielder. Plus, not only do you get magic, but vampires, demons, special police and extravagant baked goods. :)

Added to the list, thank you!

Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell.

I feel a bit daft at forgetting this one, but then I haven't been able to get into it so far so it's been buried a bit at the back of the 'to read' pile.
 

kellysarah

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I'm currently reading a trilogy of books by Trudi Canavan. It's called The Black Magician Trilogy and it is amazing. It's all about a Magical Guild and one of their new Novices. I can't put it down, and I almost missed my tram stop the other day because I was so into it!
 

lkp

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I like Alice Hoffman's novels for their unusual and understated use of magic. Practical Magic might be a good place to start.
 

Phaeal

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I feel a bit daft at forgetting this one, but then I haven't been able to get into it so far so it's been buried a bit at the back of the 'to read' pile.

No problem. JS and Mr. N. isn't for everyone. Jane Austenites and lovers of the massive 19th century novel are most likely to fall in with its expansive, richly footnoted, leisurely style. It's kind of the War and Peace of fantasy. ;)

But, oh, it has some of the loveliest writing of the century, in any genre.
 

Cathy C

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Peh. Ick. Didn't like that book AT ALL.

I'm all about urban fantasy, though. Don't know if you like the contemporary stuff, or if you prefer the sword and sorcery sort. I have suggestions on both, depending.
 

Smiling Ted

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Specifically for magical systems...

The Wraeththu trilogy, by Storm Constantine. The author drew on a lot of Golden Dawn occultism and made it work. It's also one of the few explicitly "Goth" fantasies I've really admired; I imagine it would appeal strongly to those who liked Interview With a Vampire.

The Lord Darcy books by Randall Garrett - alternate history, a well-worked out magical system, and a detective. How could you not like it?

Larry Niven's Magic Goes Away stories. Many of these are anthologized shorter works. The most well known are What Good Is a Glass Dagger? and Not Long Before the End. They are the first to treat magical energy as a non-renewable resource - and they were written during the 1973 oil crisis.

And the winner is....

Ursula K. Leguin's Earthsea trilogy, plus short stories that include The Rule of Names and The Word of Unbinding. She drew on her anthropology background to create magic that was more than a set of laws - it was a point of view, a system of belief, a way of thinking.
 
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Smiling Ted

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Re Strange and Norrill

Peh. Ick. Didn't like that book AT ALL.

I'm all about urban fantasy, though. Don't know if you like the contemporary stuff, or if you prefer the sword and sorcery sort. I have suggestions on both, depending.

Thank God I'm not the only one.

Slowest.

Fantasy.

EVER.

No, wait, I mis-spoke. That was Assassin's Apprentice. JS&MN is the second slowest, then.
 
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DeleyanLee

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Holly Lisle's The Secret Texts which consists of Diplomacy of Wolves, Vengeance of Dragons and Courage of Falcons.

Without the magic, there would be no story.
 

JimmyB27

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The fantasy series I always like to recommend should fit in here. The Farseer trilogy, the Liveship trilogy and the Tawny Man trilogy by Robin Hobb. The magic is less important in the second trilogy, but the three trilogies go together to make one big overarching storyline.
The main character in the other two trilogies is a chap called Fitz, and he has two kinds of magic, the Skill and the Wit. They are both well thought out, and well used in the story. In the Tawny Man trilogy, especially, a lot of the plot centres around Fitz and his Wit, which is a largely reviled magic, with a lot of prejudice against it's users.
 

Cathy C

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For traditional fantasy, I like Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar world. In urban fantsy, I like Jim Butcher's Dresden Files and Kelley Armstrong's Otherworld. :)
 

MattW

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I'm not sure I want a magic system that is transparent and appears well thought out.

I want magic that is mysterious and foreign to the reader while maintaining internal consistency. A Song of Ice and Fire does it perfectly.
 

Richard White

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Older but still fun books

Organized Magic:
o "Master of the Five Magics" & "Secret of the Sixth Magic" by Lyndon Hardy
o "Sing the Four Quarters" by Tanya Huff
o* "The Riddle-Master of Hed" by Patricia A. McKillip

Less Organized Magic
o "Spellsinger" by Alan Dean Foster
o "The Darwath Trilogy" by Barbara Hambly (I still love "The Time of the Dark")
o "The Warlock in Spite of Himself" (The Warlock Series) by Christopher Stasheff

(*Note: Little less sure about this one, been a while since I read it, but if you find this series, I highly recommend it anyway, organized magic or no.)
 

Zelenka

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I'm not sure I want a magic system that is transparent and appears well thought out.

I want magic that is mysterious and foreign to the reader while maintaining internal consistency. A Song of Ice and Fire does it perfectly.

Hate to say it, but I don't like the Song of Fire and Ice series. Can't get past the first couple of chapters of the first book before I get totally bored with it. I have tried, given that so many people say it's good, but I honestly don't see it myself.

Anyway, having a magical system that's 'mysterious and foreign' doesn't work since my MC is a magician - obviously the system isn't going to be mysterious or foreign to him, is it? Plus, I'm really against the practice of sticking in vague or 'mysterious' terms into fantasy just to make it sound fantasy-ish. I like my world and the magic in it to feel as if it's real, fits in with the world and society and has a history or structure of its own. I prefer that when I'm reading so I try to stick to that when I'm writing as well. That's why I was asking for good magical systems in books - not just for ideas, to see how other people do it, but because in writing my own WIP I've figured that's one thing I really like to read too.
 

Shweta

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I feel a bit daft at forgetting this one, but then I haven't been able to get into it so far so it's been buried a bit at the back of the 'to read' pile.

If you want to read lovely prose about odd fae magic without wading though way-many pages, try Clarke's The Ladies of Grace Adieu. Short stories, lovely little bursts of flavor (every flavor from comedy to horror, as befits the fae), and some moments I like better than Strange & Norrell, and I'm one of the people who love that book.

Having said that. Books that really made me feel like I was reading magic and not just Fantasy --

Tim Powers, The Anubis Gates
Terri Windling, The Wood Wife
Emma Bull, Territory
Patricia McKillip, Song for the Basilisk (or really any others, but that one seems to me to match your criteria best)
Caroline Stevermer, A College of Magics
(Actually I also love the way they deal with magic in Wrede/Stevermer's Sorcery and Cecelia and sequels).
And.. this might be weird, but... Lord Dunsany, The Charwoman's Shadow (or pretty much any other).


Older books, harder to find, where the magic just felt right to me:
Nick O'Donohoe, The Magic and the Healing
Kara Dalkey, Goa
(But fair warning, both are first books in trilogies where book 3 is really hard to find, and magic is not the focus of either.)
Pamela Dean, The Dubious Hills
Delia Sherman, Through a Brazen Mirror
(I doubt you'll ever find this, but just in case! It is so lovely I had to mention it).
 

sunna

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Patricia McKillip, Song for the Basilisk (or really any others, but that one seems to me to match your criteria best)
Caroline Stevermer, A College of Magics

God, how did I forget those? I keep hoping Stevermer will decide to write something else about Faris. I loved her.

I'll also add McKilip's Riddlemaster trilogy: magic on an epic scale, plus her amazing prose.
 

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Jess, I have this habit that instead of listing what I like, I describe what I like and why, and how it works, then list a couple of examples. It may or may not help, but it's how I think and I hope it's useful.

What I like about magic in fantasy
After some reflection I've decided that I like magic that's unpredictable yet makes sense, evokes the morality and themes of the story, enhances the mood of the setting, increases the tension of the story and symbolises an issue that I care about in real life. It might be worth unpacking these a bit.

Unpredictable: The 'laws' governing magic aren't knowable or guessable to the reader, or the application of these laws is at least surprising

Makes sense: There's a deep, consistent sense of consequence that emerges as we read it - but which isn't necessarily apparent right away.

Morality and themes: The magic links closely to the choices that major characters make; their reasons for making those choices; the consequences that they encounter and my sense of whether those consequences are appropriately or inappropriately successful or unsuccessful, good or bad.

Mood: Self-explanatory. Magic evokes the world, just as setting does.

Increases tension: I like magic that makes things harder, not easier, on characters

Symbolises things I care about: I like it when the imagery of magic reflects stuff in my own life that I care about. This links to morality and themes. So, I like magic that somehow changes people, or holds up a mirror on knotty personal or social problems, or provides reflection on situations I can identify with.

The two earliest examples I found of magic that I liked were Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time, closely followed by Ursula Le Guin's A Wizard of Earthsea. To these I would later quickly add CS Lewis' The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and eventually Tolkien's The Hobbit. Each offered outstanding examples of the above qualities. But there have been a lot of stories with magic that I don't wholeheartedly like too. But a few remarks about these.

Unpredictability: Stories can feature very orderly magic or very chaotic magic. A Wrinkle in Time has very chaotic magic, while A Wizard of Earthsea has very orderly magic. Really, the quality of unpredictability is a story-telling quality, rather than a story-design quality. Le Guin explains her laws of magic early, but then surprises readers with how they apply. L'Engle simply keeps readers guessing by throwing new sorts of magic in every other chapter.

Makes sense: It's not hard or uncommon to provide glib justifications for deus ex machina plot devices delivered via magic. The mark of good magical design to me is that the consequences seem in retrospect to be the only reasonable ones. This is especially noticable in both Lewis' and Le Guin's stories - perhaps because their magic has such a strong moral dimension.

Morality and themes: In each story I mention, magic is used to symbolise some element of human existence or desire. In each case, these elements are put into conflict. In each case, the conflict includes a magical resolution that also offers commentary on the social, psychological or moral.

Mood:The magic in each story is unique to that world, and captures the feel of place perfectly.

Tension:All the characters who encounter magic in these stories don't get an easy ride from it. There's always dilemma and sacrifice.

Symbolism:In each story I mention, the imagery isn't chosen for the degree of flash, but for its degree of symbolism in terms of theme, and its addition to mood. This is visible in (say) the Turkish delight in Lewis' story, or the gold encrusting the dragon's body in Tolkien's, the Jungian shadow-monster in Le Guin's or the links between mathemagic and love in L'Engle's.

There have been many other writers since who've impressed me in this way. Tim Powers was mentioned, and I agree. I'd add some of Gene Wolfe's writing too. Zelazny at his best does this too. (The magic in Lord of Light worked for me; the magic in the Amber series did not)

Many other fantasy writers are impressive for other reasons, but their magic often is not. Very often it's punctuation or gratuitous special effects or mood without significance or deus ex machina plot resolution -- all of which irritate me greatly.

Hope there may be some use in this.
 
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Zelenka

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Jess, I have this habit that instead of listing what I like, I describe what I like and why, and how it works, then list a couple of examples. It may or may not help, but it's how I think and I hope it's useful.

It certainly is thought-provoking. I have no idea how my system of magic in my WIP would fit in with these sort of criteria to be honest, though I'm not in the best thinking-mode at the moment thanks to a rotten headache. I have no idea if the system I have is any good or not or just plain stupid, but this gives a good list of categories to consider and that might help me figure out whether it is or not.

Don't know if any of that made sense, but basically...thanks :D
 

Ruv Draba

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I have no idea if the system I have is any good or not or just plain stupid, but this gives a good list of categories to consider and that might help me figure out whether it is or not.
Well, these are just Ruv Preferences[SUP]TM[/SUP]. Ask someone else and they might give you a different shopping list, like: Magic has to be clever, colorful, theological, and say something satirical about human relationships.... :tongue

The thing I'd suggest is to put together your own shopping list. Chances are that whatever you like, a bunch of other readers will want to read more of that too. :D
 

Jeremy

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To go along with Ruv Draba’s post, I’m going to add a link to an essay Brandon Sanderson wrote on the subject of magic. Sanderson's First Law of Magics

That’s really why I like to refer to Sanderson’s work when it comes to magic. He not only has great magic systems in his books, he explains in the essay on the how and why magic can be used to create a better story. In my opinion it’s a must read for anyone planning on using magic in their writing.
 

Zelenka

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To go along with Ruv Draba’s post, I’m going to add a link to an essay Brandon Sanderson wrote on the subject of magic. Sanderson's First Law of Magics

That’s really why I like to refer to Sanderson’s work when it comes to magic. He not only has great magic systems in his books, he explains in the essay on the how and why magic can be used to create a better story. In my opinion it’s a must read for anyone planning on using magic in their writing.

Fantastic essay - I don't know how this would be done, but it occurred to me this discussion would make a very good thread in its own right, away from the book recs. A discussion on types of magic system?
 

Smiling Ted

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Fantastic essay - I don't know how this would be done, but it occurred to me this discussion would make a very good thread in its own right, away from the book recs. A discussion on types of magic system?

I second that.
I'd go a little farther - include a list of more essays on magic, like Sanderson's.
 
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