There's no victory in safety

Nateskate · Apr 12, 2008

Okay, I'm not on a shelf in a store yet- so I may not exactly have won the right to say anything definitively. (Lol- I'm still waiting for publisher edits on Book One)

All the same, I think that when setting out, if we approach writing from a safe place, the story suffers.

When I first started, I'd never written a battle scene, a river scene, romance, and felt I was in over my head on a constant basis, because I was in over my head.

If we stay within our comfort zone, we limit the possibilities of the story. Therefore it's better to come out with a concept that's over our heads; and then fight to make it work, rather than sticking to what we know.

Of coures, as you grow and figure out how to make things work, some things may come naturally.

Question: How far are you stretching to make your story great?

windyrdg · Apr 12, 2008

I tend to agree. The things that I wrote when I threw caution to the wind and just went for it are some of the best things I've ever done. We stretch in different ways...topics, emotions, scenes...and so on. You always want to push the envelope as a writer. By that I mean honing your word skills and descritptive powers, not simply trying to shock a reader with some gory scene.

Pike · Apr 12, 2008

Absolutely! Playing it safe only gives milktoast stories. We're supposed to bend the rules, throw our portags into a blazing pit with little to no chance of escape.

I try to explore obsessions as much as possible in my writing. What people will do to get what they desire - in real life - is astounding, and a myraid scope of possibilities for fiction writers.

Pike

maestrowork · Apr 12, 2008

Take risks. Go for the unexpected. There's comfort in cliches and familiarity, of course. People keep buying the same kinds of books. But as an artist, I really believe in pushing some limits. It's not to say we all need to be outrageous. But for me, I go for the deep truth about the human condition, no matter how unsettling or uncomfortable it is -- there's no safe when it comes to that.

BlueTexas · Apr 12, 2008

Pike said:
Absolutely! Playing it safe only gives milktoast stories. We're supposed to bend the rules, throw our portags into a blazing pit with little to no chance of escape.

I try to explore obsessions as much as possible in my writing. What people will do to get what they desire - in real life - is astounding, and a myraid scope of possibilities for fiction writers.

Pike

I agree: go all in, deep into the blazing pit. The stuff I'm afraid to bring to my writer's group cause I think they'll think I'm demented or crazy or just plain weird is always the stuff that they like the best. The stuff I'm not concerned about bores them.

Michael Davis · Apr 12, 2008

Talk about stretching your zone, imagine a big 6'3" 54" shouldered bull writing romance. How much more out of the comfort zone can you get. Mine are not pure romance. There thrillers/suspense with a romantic core, but still, I had to survey a lot of ladies (friends/family) to understand what woman like/dislike. Haven't done to bad. First three reviews were 5 of 5, but I've still got a lot to learn.

I would definitely stretch, but also do your research if you're not familiar with the zone.

I wouldn't stretch into areas I don't read or like or agree with, but other than that, I think new areas refresh the muse and enjoyment, so go for it.

Phaeal · Apr 12, 2008

Stretch as far as you need to stretch to get to the other side.

It's either that or stay right where you are.

maestrowork · Apr 12, 2008

BTW, going out of your comfort zone is a way for a writer to grow.

JBI · Apr 12, 2008

Depends on your story. There are plenty of stories with no forward action, which are completely character driven, and are perhaps the greatest works of literature. The perfect example is Shakespeare's Tempest, which generally has minimal plot. Another good example is Virginia Woolf's To The Lighthouse.

lfraser · Apr 12, 2008

The best scenes I've written have been the ones that made me uncomfortable while I wrote them. Sometimes the discomfort came from the style I was using, sometimes it came from the content of the scene. One, in particular, is both blatantly sexual and deeply disturbing. I have no idea where it came from or what I was thinking when i wrote it, but it is powerful and it absolutely defines the relationship between two of my characters.

CDarklock · Apr 12, 2008

Nateskate said:
All the same, I think that when setting out, if we approach writing from a safe place, the story suffers.

Whereas when you approach it as a complete and utter novice at this kind of thing, the writing suffers.

If you've never written a battle scene before, guess what you're going to write when you try? A bad battle scene! Which is okay, so long as you surround that bad scene with good scenes.

So there's a double edged sword here. You should never be afraid to follow the story where it goes just because you're uncomfortable writing that; but be moderate about it. If you've never written a boat scene, or a battle scene, or an alien landing scene, it's probably a bad idea to write an entire book about aliens landing on a pirate ship during a mutiny.

Zoombie · Apr 12, 2008

It's okay to start in a safe place, as long as you blow it up by page 10.

<depresses the plunger, watches the explosion> Whee...pretty!

kuwisdelu · Apr 12, 2008

JBI said:
Depends on your story. There are plenty of stories with no forward action, which are completely character driven, and are perhaps the greatest works of literature. The perfect example is Shakespeare's Tempest, which generally has minimal plot. Another good example is Virginia Woolf's To The Lighthouse.

I think you misunderstood the post. Stretching your limits doesn't have to be plot-driven. In fact, if you usually write very plot-oriented stories, then trying to write a, extremely character-driven story is stretching your limits. Forward action has nothing to do with going outside your comfort zone (unless your comfort zone is avoiding forward action...)

I definitely agree. Don't just push the envelope. Break it. If it's crap, try it again until it's amazing.

Claudia Gray · Apr 12, 2008

I would qualify this by saying you should push the envelope when it's right for the story. Do I see a lot of people trying to play it safe and thus doing their novels a disservice? Yes. But do I also see people straining for shock value/unnecessarily complicated framing devices/ungainly POVs/other "envelope-pushers" that ultimately detract from the story? Yes.

It's important to push yourself. But it's just as important to understand your story's needs and serve them.

ishtar'sgate · Apr 12, 2008

Nateskate said:
Question: How far are you stretching to make your story great?

I learned a long time ago not to selfcensor so I don't worry about leaving my comfort zone. I don't have one. I'll tackle anything that will move along the story. I admit to being a bit nervous about friends and family reading certain scenes but it never stopped me from writing them. I enjoy stretching my limits to see what I can do in unfamiliar territory.
Linnea

BlueTexas · Apr 12, 2008

ClaudiaGray said:
IYes. But do I also see people straining for shock value/unnecessarily complicated framing devices/ungainly POVs/other "envelope-pushers" that ultimately detract from the story? Yes.

I think she's right in that being tricky to be cool is bad, bad juju. Save that for the experts.

Shweta · Apr 12, 2008

I am spending the whole of draft 1 feeling like a total ignoramus.

The WIP is (probably) romance, never done that before, has complex cultures with their roots in cultures I've barely studied and need to do a lot more work on, the geography/climate is one I've never lived in, the people's professions are all (including, argh, the clockmaker!) ones I know little or nothing about.

I'm bumbling along at the moment and planning to do the most intense research after Draft 1 is done, or when I get really stuck. But if I can find kids' toys that are all gears and stuff, I oughta get some and play with them to get some more insight into that, since the advance of technology is sort of a big deal.

triceretops · Apr 12, 2008

If we stay within our comfort zone, we limit the possibilities of the story. Therefore it's better to come out with a concept that's over our heads; and then fight to make it work, rather than sticking to what we know.

I tend to agree with this. I'm totally outside the box now and daring to take up ground that I'd never thought of before. The concept is so risky, that I find myself doubting every sentence, scene and chapter. And I've never been this bold before. Because frankly, I'm really growing very weary of hearing some oft times repeated rejection phrases that span over five books.

"Didn't quite push the genre."

"Something too familiar here."

"It didn't seem to cover new ground."

"I don't think it would stand out enough."

"Not different enough to compete."

So I took a radical approach and departure, testing the limits in supension of disbelief. I'd rather fail on the side of unbelievability this time, than be told that my tale is unoriginal, tired or cliche. This time I've pushed so far past the ordinary, that even I am having trouble comprehending this tale. And I think that's a good sign that everything will really work out this time.

Tri

kuwisdelu · Apr 12, 2008

ClaudiaGray said:
I would qualify this by saying you should push the envelope when it's right for the story. Do I see a lot of people trying to play it safe and thus doing their novels a disservice? Yes. But do I also see people straining for shock value/unnecessarily complicated framing devices/ungainly POVs/other "envelope-pushers" that ultimately detract from the story? Yes.

It's important to push yourself. But it's just as important to understand your story's needs and serve them.

This is also very true.

But then, the correct interpretation is that you should try to push your own envelope. If straining for shock value in order to try to push the envelope of your genre or story or something is what you normally try to do, then holding back is writing outside of your comfort zone, and is what you should probably try to do.

Madison · Apr 12, 2008

I agree. I was just talking with someone today about this. If a story doesn't challenge something, if it doesn't make the reader (or author) uncomfortable, then what's the point in reading/writing it?

I'm all for literary entertainment, but I'm even more strongly for writing literature that challenges and questions and pushes boundaries. Think of all the famous literary classics. They aren't famous because the author sat down and wrote what had already been written, or wrote within the social confines of that era. They're famous because they made people shift in their seats and think. So push boundaries! I'm all for it!

JBI · Apr 12, 2008

kuwisdelu said:
I think you misunderstood the post. Stretching your limits doesn't have to be plot-driven. In fact, if you usually write very plot-oriented stories, then trying to write a, extremely character-driven story is stretching your limits. Forward action has nothing to do with going outside your comfort zone (unless your comfort zone is avoiding forward action...)

I definitely agree. Don't just push the envelope. Break it. If it's crap, try it again until it's amazing.

I think I understood the post near-perfectly. The whole scene thing is plot.

Shweta · Apr 12, 2008

JBI said:
I think I understood the post near-perfectly. The whole scene thing is plot.

Not necessarily. A scene is just a chunk of text where something happens. That something does not need to be external.

Your definition of "scene" may be what's limited, here. In either case, there's something you didn't understood in the standard way, because you're interpreting the OP in a way that nobody else is.

David I · Apr 13, 2008

JBI said:
Depends on your story. There are plenty of stories with no forward action, which are completely character driven, and are perhaps the greatest works of literature. The perfect example is Shakespeare's Tempest, which generally has minimal plot. Another good example is Virginia Woolf's To The Lighthouse.

Really? Gosh, I've read both, and I didn't realize.

I like Stephen Koch's definition of plot as the details of how the story unfolds.

I think the distinction of "character-driven" and "plot-driven" is nonsensical in any well-crafted work.

Metaphor · Apr 13, 2008

Am I stretching myself?

Yeah, I guess you could say that. A novel which I've got in the planning stages right now is about a teenager getting pregnant, which ends up bringing her closer to the baby's father and falling in love with him. One problem. I've never had sex. (I've just turned 15, why would I have?) Obviously a book which revolves around a pregnancy must include a sex scene. That isn't playing it safe. Neither is the fact that I'm showing a teenage pregnancy in a good light.

It doesn't help that when I move onto WIP2 I'm writing about a whole country being destroyed and enslaved, and then an innocent young slave-girl getting raped.

Oh well. When I'm all stretched out, I can just dive into my fantasy world and lose myself in my safer WIP1. Except it's not actually safe, I mean she has an evil Enchanter and all his minions after her!

Yes, I know I'm an idiot.

lkp · Apr 13, 2008

I write medieval historical fiction. I think if I want to make it more vivid, and more accurate, I am going to have to write more about violence --- battle, rape, and just the everyday sense of imminent threat and danger. That is going to be a stretch for me. But otherwise, the Middle Ages are going to look too pretty and cute.

There's no victory in safety

New kid, be gentle!

Chivalry ain't dead

Fear the Death Ray

Back from self-exile land.

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

Fear the Death Ray

Bored and Frantic

Yes!

Dragon of the Multiverse

Revolutionize the World

living in the past

Back from self-exile land.

gone

Revolutionize the World

summertime...

gone

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