Having a Small Press Published Novel?

KTC · Apr 11, 2008

Without going into too much detail, how would you feel about having a very small press published novel in your publishing history? Just wondering if you would consider going to a tiny press, if given the chance. Would you see this as a benefit or a drawback? Just wondering what bigger presses and/or agents would think if they see this in your publishing history. I'm thinking it couldn't be a bad thing, but am I right?

David I · Apr 11, 2008

I don't know about "good" and "bad". That's too much into the whole Zoroastrian (later Judeo-Christian) realm for me ("I am Ahura Mazda, The Lord of Light!").

Plenty of successful authors have done it. To take one example, John Grisham's first novel, A Time to Kill, was pubbed by a small press (Wyndham?) and his huge $15,000 advance may have been what bankrupted the company. (It was not, as many rumors have it, self-published.)

Just make sure it is a genuine small press with some creds, and not a scam: a company with distribution, and preferably not a POD outfit.

And remember to save a bunch of copies for when you're rich and famous. Copies of the original A Time to Kill are valuable.

PS. Some agents--including some who post at AW--are jerks about this, insisting that they'd rather bet on an unknown than somebody who had a book with small sales volumes. But I'm sure you don't want an enemy of literature as your agent in the first place.

KTC · Apr 11, 2008

Thanks for the insight, David. I appreciate all the feedback I can get on this.

illiterwrite · Apr 11, 2008

Sometimes I wish I'd gone the way of small presses for my first novel. I certainly wouldn't consider it a liability.

Shady Lane · Apr 11, 2008

I have a novella with a small press, and I mentioned it in some queries and not in others...just when it fit with the flow of the letter. Didn't seem to affect my results much. The agent I ended up choosing didn't know about it until after we signed the contracts. She uses it in her editorial pitches.

CaroGirl · Apr 11, 2008

I'd love to be pubbed by a reputable small press. A lot of small presses are very highly regarded in Canada and many of their novels go on to win awards and even get picked up by larger presses. Certainly, many small press authors have moved on to the big guys after their first novel or two got pubbed by a little guy. I'd consider it a great credit to be pubbed by any small literary press.

Birol · Apr 11, 2008

As long as the small press is reputable and legitimate, of course I would publish with them.

allenparker · Apr 11, 2008

Only my guess.

David I said:
PS. Some agents--including some who post at AW--are jerks about this, insisting that they'd rather bet on an unknown than somebody who had a book with small sales volumes. But I'm sure you don't want an enemy of literature as your agent in the first place.

I may be wrong, but I have a different take on the opinions I have read on AW about this. I believe they are talking about an unknown source as opposed to an author whose track record was poor. The gamble is that the unknown has a better possibility of success.

Miss Snark (bows head in homage) stated that any commercial writing credits are positive because it showed someone liked your work enough to pay for it. I believe she also qualified writing credit to be an generally accepted writing credit.

So, the order would look something like this in their pecking order.

1. NYT Best Selling Author who will make them rich(er)
2. Good selling Author.
3. Unknown Author with a great manuscript regardless of what their past might be.
4. Unknown Author with a good manuscript.

5. First Time author with a good manuscript and willing attitude.
6. Unknown author with one or two books with small to average sales in a small market.
7. Unknown author with one or two books that sold very little.

I am sure I have this wrong somewhere. Maybe one of the agents here will make the necessary corrections.

Raphee · Apr 11, 2008

Right now, I wouldn't mind the size of the press as long as I get published. I am sure it won't harm my chances later.

Sheryl Nantus · Apr 11, 2008

it actually depends on what sort of business the small press is in - if it's got no distribution process other than being listed at B&T and Ingram's, you're not going to sell a lot of copies.

not selling a lot of copies could influence someone in the future if they look at your previous work. So if the publisher in question can't get books on the shelves or doesn't do any promotion and it all falls on your shoulders, it's not likely you'll be able to sell your book in high enough numbers to make it look good on your resume.

imo, of course.

Gillhoughly · Apr 11, 2008

A legit small press with distribution is better than many other alternatives. It may be a small (three hundred to twelve hundred $) advance, but it counts as a professional sale on your resume. (If they don't offer an advance--or are Publish America

--give them a pass.)

However, if you're just starting to make the rounds, get the lastest Writer's Market at the library, start at the top with the biggest houses, and work your way down.

It worked for me. I almost had my first book placed with a small outfit called Bluebird Press or something like that. They went bankrupt just as I was about to mail them my MS.

I was horribly disappointed and angry and did a silly and reckless thing and mailed my book to one of the biggest houses I could find.

Danged if it didn't sell.

I've heard many caught in the myth that a small press is easier to sell to, but the opposite is true. They tend to be pickier on submissions as they have more to lose.

Two of my buddies run small presses, and they are extremely careful on acquisitions. Before they sign anyone on they have to be certain they will make back their costs on a book. (It's not just the author's advance, but production costs, too.) A larger house has that same concern, but can absorb the loss better.

ishtar'sgate · Apr 11, 2008

KTC said:
Without going into too much detail, how would you feel about having a very small press published novel in your publishing history? Just wondering if you would consider going to a tiny press, if given the chance. Would you see this as a benefit or a drawback? Just wondering what bigger presses and/or agents would think if they see this in your publishing history. I'm thinking it couldn't be a bad thing, but am I right?

I suppose it would depend on the reputation of the small press. I sold my novel to a small press because quite frankly they were the only ones who would take a chance on a novel by a first time author that didn't fall easily into a genre slot.
They were, however, a very well respected literary press.
My novel was published in 2005 and nominated for the OLA White Pine Young Readers Choice Award in 2006. The book remains in high school reading programs in Ontario and Nova Scotia so although that doesn't translate into many more book sales it does translate into a large readership which will be helpful when my next book comes out.
The monetary rewards were quite small by industry standards, only several thousand dollars, but I learned a lot about the publishing business and hope to interest an agent with my next novel. I asked an agent about the possible drawbacks of having a small press publication in my bio and he said as long as it wasn't romance or mystery it earned pretty well and wouldn't harm my future chances of finding an agent.
Hope that helps.
Linnea

maestrowork · Apr 11, 2008

I'm published by a small press. As long as they're legit and they put out good work, you'll have credibility. You won't be laughing all the way to the bank or have it translated into 17 different languages or go on Oprah, but it gets your foot in the door -- especially if it's a niche market book without a huge mainstream appeal.

Do your research. Does the small press has a good reputation? Not all publishers are created equal. Do they have distribution? That's a really important thing. Can they get your book into stores (return policies, discounts, etc.) Basically, you need to really look and see if their business is sound, and they're not just pumping out crap to make a quick buck, or that their books go nowhere in the market.

Of course, eventually you would like to be published by a big house with a fat advance. But that may come later. There are pros and cons with being with a big house vs. a small press -- just like small companies vs. big corporations. You just need to see what makes sense to you (at this junction of your career) and your work.

But no, if it's a reputable, legit press, it won't hurt you. At least you'll have credibility now.

It's your next book(s) that are going to determine if you really have a career.

And congrats!

IceCreamEmpress · Apr 11, 2008

A legit small press? Fantastic, especially one with good distribution.

A micropress? Depends on the reputation of the folks running it. Some micropresses are very innovative niche publishers; others are hobby projects run by people with a poor grasp of the industry.

My guess is that you have enough grasp of the industry to know if it's a credit you'll be proud of.

As for the "agents don't like authors who can't sell books"--that's true. If you've published with a big NY house and sold fewer than 20,000 copies, you're considered box office poison. But if you published with a university press or a small press, your press run is unlikely to be anywhere near 20,000 copies; agents understand that there are different scales of success for different market segments.

Jackfishwoman · Apr 11, 2008

I had my first book published by a small Canadian Press and while small literary presses in Canada are more highly regarded than elsewhere, there is a down-side as well. Small presses have zero budget for marketing & promotion so it is very difficult to get the word out about a new title. Needless to say, these books don't do as well (sales-wise) as books published by the big guys with huge pockets for promoting.

Jackfishwoman · Apr 11, 2008

...having said that (above), I would also say that being published by a small literary press with a good reputation can be a benefit for your resume because they are indeed more selective. They look for quality & cultural importance rather than a book with huge mass-market commercial potential.

My book is not making any money, but it is being studied in universities!

I still like to think that there are agents out there who are looking for fine work and not just pulp-fiction crap that will make them filthy rich! (I haven't found one yet, but still hopeful.)

willietheshakes · Apr 11, 2008

Which small press?

(Feel free to PM me...)

KTC · Apr 11, 2008

I'd rather not go into anything right now, but I really appreciate all the feedback here. Really...it's helped an awful lot.

Constantine K · Apr 11, 2008

Speaking of this: Is there a good site that has a list of small presses? I've seen a few on the net but not many. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

maestrowork · Apr 11, 2008

There are thousands of small presses. Probably a better approach is to find their books in stores (especially indie bookstores), or go online to do some research on them. See if some of their books are on sale or in libraries -- then check out the books to see if they're of good quality. Ask questions. Know where their businesses are going, etc.

Pike · Apr 12, 2008

Just remembered an authour I've spoke with several years ago that tried to get his novel published through a big house but was lacking much success. He sold it to a smaller publisher and it did well. After the terms of his contract ended, he took his creds for the small press to a big house and finally caught their attention. They published it! It was a long gamble but it gave him a platform to work off of.

Pike

Michael Davis · Apr 12, 2008

I'm with a small press, and I love it. There are both pros and cons. To me:

PROS
- A lot of hands on personal time
- More of a team spirit with the other authors, and their very helpful.
- I have no schedule pressure applied to be on my "next" novel
- My stories cross multi-lines (Suspense, romance, political, techno thriller) and I'm allowed to cross genres( that's taboo in some big press operations).

CONS
- You have to do A LOT of self promo stuff (reread the word A LOT).
- The money you earn is a friction of what's possible with the big guys

Frankly, I prefer the publisher I have. My wife and friends have encouraged me to try and go with an agent as a conduit to one of the big five, but I prefer where I am. If something happened to my publisher, I might feel different, or if they started rejecting my submissions, but I enjoy the relationship. Course, my muse is to write to be read, not to make money (uncle sam would just take it anyway).

IceCreamEmpress · Apr 12, 2008

Constantine K said:
Speaking of this: Is there a good site that has a list of small presses? I've seen a few on the net but not many. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

Since the biggest factor in the success of a small-press book is distribution, I'd start with looking at the good small-press distributors' sites and seeing whom they represent. Among US distributors, I like the Independent Publishers Group; another distributor many people swear by is Perseus Distribution.

Between those two distributors, you've got a couple of hundred small presses to try right there.

And of course, as Ray says, the most important thing is to check it out on the ground--go into bookstores and libraries and see who's on the shelves.

waylander · Apr 12, 2008

It was good enough for Joe Hill.

I've heard UK editorial directors say recently that they regard the small press as important feeders for them

Jackfishwoman · Apr 12, 2008

All of this is spot-on advice. Great thread KTC!!

Having a Small Press Published Novel?

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