Another Lyrics / Copyright Question

(First off, if this is in the wrong place, I apologise, wasn't sure).

I'm not really up on the music / copyright issues but as far as I know using lyrics in a novel would require (possibly expensive) permission, but to use the title alone is all right. If the lyrics, though, are in the public domain, am I right in thinking that they're fine to quote?

Another slight problem is that the song lyrics I would ideally like to quote come from Gilbert & Sullivan's 'Mikado', which, so far as I've been able to find out, is in the public domain. However, because of concerns about racism or sexism in some of the lyrics, a lot of modern companies have altered the songs slightly - so what's the position with those altered versions of the songs? Are they still public domain?

I should know the answer to this seeing how I'm in the middle of a law course, but we haven't done anything to do with music in particular yet and none of my textbooks is any help either.

KTC said:

Yes. attribution is needed or it's just plagiarism. But I think public domain is okay to use and attribute.

Click to expand...

Oh, thank you. Attribution actually didn't occur to me as it's explained in context where the song is from - take it a note at the beginning of the book would do in terms of attribution? I'll need to add the musical hall songs I have in there as well, then, even though they're anonymously authored.

Also, is that only the case for song lyrics? I mean, if I quote from a public domain play or poem or film, I don't attribute it and have never seen that done in published fiction.

Shweta said:

I think if anything is in the public domain it's fine to quote -- isn't that what makes it public domain? Only, I think one still needs attribution...

As for the altered versions, I'm not sure.

I'm also not sure whether this is the best place to get your answer, Jess. So, going to leave it here long enough to see if people know, and if not, bounce it over to story research because maybe people know there.

Click to expand...

Oh, out of all the threads I was thinking this could go in, I forgot about Research. *slaps forehead*. Thanks once again Shweta.

Medievalist said:

Read the Copyright FAQ.

(Y'all are makin' me feel unloved ... sniff, sob)

Click to expand...

I had scanned those discussion threads listed there before posting, though some people there were claiming that the use of public domain songs was still required permission, which was why I asked. I was still a bit confused also as to the position where a public domain song had been altered.

(although I am now wishing I'd put this down as a possible topic for my law dissertation - bound to be 10,000 words to find for this issue!)

IceCreamEmpress said:

If a revision/edited version of a public domain work is copyrighted, then that particular version is covered by copyright. So you'd have to check the copyright statements on the particular libretto you were using.

I know that might seem odd, but "performing editions" of all sorts of public domain works are copyrighted--the idea is that the intellectual property in question isn't the work itself, but the editorial expertise involved in preparing this particular version.

I'd just avoid using any sections that weren't W. S. Gilbert's original words.

Click to expand...

It doesn't seem odd at all, no. That confirms what I'd been thinking to be honest, since the rewritten version involves the creative work of another person - similar to the lyrics of a parody version, I would assume.