Could my first novel really be my second?

xDemode · Apr 7, 2008

Has anyone ever written a series, finished their first and second story, and realized that they could probably go back and write the storyline that preludes the first story?

George Lucas, put your hand down.

I'm stuck in a rut, to be honest. I'm editing my first story and I realize that it is not where the story begins. If I can be blunt, a lot of shit goes down before the first story.

So here are some questions:

How can you tell if your first novel should actually be your second?

If you're lucky and someone publishes your novel, is it too late to write the story that precedes it?

If the above is possible, do readers dislike when stories are "disjointed" and published out of order?

What would you do for a Klondike bar?

ILSinTexas · Apr 7, 2008

xDemode--

An example that comes to my mind is Thomas Harris. "The Silence Of the Lambs," and I believe a couple of other Hannibal Lecter books were published first.

Then, in 2006, Harris published, "Hannibal Rising," which is actually the story of how Dr. Lecter got to be so evil.

So the answer to your question is, Yes, it does happen.

ILS

Kryianna · Apr 7, 2008

Candace Havens just had "Like a Charm" come out, which focuses on a sub-character of her "Charmed" series. Events in "Like a Charm" pre-date the other books.

Tom Clancy's "Without Remorse" gave the backstory to John Clark, and was published years after we had been introduced to that character.

Elizabeth Moon wrote the "Legacy of Gird" books, published after the "Deed of Paksenarrion" trilogy, and told the history of the religious figure that was key in Paks's story.

There's plenty more examples. You're in good company.

bluntforcetrauma · Apr 7, 2008

There it goes again- someone mentioning 2nd novels. I'm beyond intrigued.

willietheshakes · Apr 7, 2008

ILSinTexas said:
xDemode--

An example that comes to my mind is Thomas Harris. "The Silence Of the Lambs," and I believe a couple of other Hannibal Lecter books were published first.

Then, in 2006, Harris published, "Hannibal Rising," which is actually the story of how Dr. Lecter got to be so evil.

So the answer to your question is, Yes, it does happen.

ILS

And all going well, your prequel won't suck to the hellish depths that Hannibal Rising did.

*shudder*

Talk about ruining a character - between Hannibal and Hannibal Rising, Harris all but destroyed one of the finest genre creations of recent memory...

*gagging*

I had blocked those books out...

Dale Emery · Apr 7, 2008

Isaac Asimov wrote two prequels to his popular and influential Foundation series: Prelude to Foundation and Forward the Foundation.

Dale

BlackViolet13 · Apr 7, 2008

On a personal note, I'm doing it right now. I'd had the whole damn thing plotted out and was happily plugging away (I had over 50K of a 100K+ novel complete) when I realized that I was leaving out too much, things that couldn't be explained by mere backstory incorporation.

*sigh*

So now I've starting over from the very beginning, quite literally. My ray of light in this is that I am not yet published, so at least it's not happening after the book has been printed and in the hands of the masses. And of course the stuff I'm writing now is making the parts I've written previously so much richer, I think.

Best wishes to you, and take comfort that you're not alone!

Wolvel · Apr 7, 2008

Sometimes it is best if the reader does not know everything about the MC, gives them a little mystery about the character.

Also prequels are fine if done right, and there is a demand for more info about the character.

yttar · Apr 7, 2008

xDemode said:
Has anyone ever written a series, finished their first and second story, and realized that they could probably go back and write the storyline that preludes the first story?

Yes. Though I only wrote one novel, but had a pretty good outline for the second novel.

The novel I'm working on now is the result of writing a novel and attempting to edit it, only to realize that my main character's story starts much earlier than the events in the novel I had written. I tried pulling out what plotlines (or sub-plots) were needed for the first book, only got intimidated by the massive amount of work I thought it would be and ended up letting the novel sit on the shelf for a while. (I also realized it wasn't nearly as difficult as I was making it out to be.)

Sometime later, I realized that in order to write the "prequel" as it were, I would need a new villain, and I would need to delve into my main character's childhood. I'm almost finished with the story now, and I think it's a much better introduction to my main character and the world she lives in than the first book I wrote for her. Plus, it opens up a lot of possibilities for a series.

xDemode said:
How can you tell if your first novel should actually be your second?

I tried looking at my book from a reader's perspective and asked myself, If this is the first I read about this character, would I think she's interesting? And how can I make her more interesting? Also, I wanted to know more about who she was as a person, and what her childhood was like.

xDemode said:
If the above is possible, do readers dislike when stories are "disjointed" and published out of order?

If the novels are mostly stand alone novels, then it usually doesn't matter which order I read the novels in. Same thing for if I pick up a novel that happens to be book 10 in a series and I go back to read the other books in the series.

But if a series is like a trilogy or something where each book contributes to the whole, then I would prefer to read them in order.

Yttar

Straka · Apr 7, 2008

right now I'm against writing series, having started 2 of them. From a practical standpoint as an unpublished author I've read stand alones are much more likely to get published. Less risk. So all I plan to do now is write stand alone manuscripts.

That said do what you think is best and keep writing. Everything evolves. Robert Jordan went back and wrote a prequel to the Wheel in Times series as well.

ShebaJones · Apr 8, 2008

I find myself doing the same thing on my series (series'? serieses? bleh), and there are many established authors with gigantic fanbases who've done the same thing. I think that if you really want to do it, go right ahead.

VC Andrews (a guilty pleasure of mine through the teen years) did it in the series made popular by Flowers in the Attic, and I think in a couple of other strings. They were formulaic, yes, and I can't really tell if they were put in by Andrews herself, or by her ghostwriter-successor, but she's still popular with the teenager romance/angst fans, and I can't say I'd be able to resist a little peek if I got to one of her newer books. The end-of-series prequels usually revolved around "What kind of hard life did (female antagonist of the first book) have to make her such a bitch?" A way to make sure that the memorable antagonist wasn't being evil just for the fun of it. Good times.

And baby, you don't even want to know what I'd do for a Klondike bar right now.

triceretops · Apr 8, 2008

right now I'm against writing series, having started 2 of them. From a practical standpoint as an unpublished author I've read stand alones are much more likely to get published. Less risk. So all I plan to do now is write stand alone manuscripts.

I really go along with this analogy. The seven novels I've written in the last three years all lend themselves well to prequels or sequels, possibly for the exception of one of them. However, books bought from new authors are primarily stand-alones, and I've certainly learned this through trial and error 17 years ago, having written several books with several sequels, doubling my time wasted when none of the primary titles sold.

Tri

Jeremy · Apr 8, 2008

Well, one of the best examples of this type of situation that I’m personally aware of is the prequel Robert Jordan did with the Wheel of Time series. I believe it was after the 10th book he wrote the prequel. Many were upset about it at the time, since they wanted him to work on the main series and not be side tracked.

If the story you’re working on stands alone without the idea for the prequel, I would continue on with the current story. After that was finished, then I would go into prequels. Not before the series was finished though.

After the ‘main’ story line is finished, I think there is a draw for readers to go back and enjoy the characters and world again. To gain insight into what happened before the main story. There is a nostalgia factor that can come to play, and you can take advantage of that.

Jeremy · Apr 8, 2008

triceretops said:
right now I'm against writing series, having started 2 of them. From a practical standpoint as an unpublished author I've read stand alones are much more likely to get published. Less risk. So all I plan to do now is write stand alone manuscripts.

triceretops said:
I really go along with this analogy. The seven novels I've written in the last three years all lend themselves well to prequels or sequels, possibly for the exception of one of them. However, books bought from new authors are primarily stand-alones, and I've certainly learned this through trial and error 17 years ago, having written several books with several sequels, doubling my time wasted when none of the primary titles sold.

Tri

I've read from an author who also suggests staying away from writing entire trilogies initionally. You can definitely get a better contract once you get a deal, but it’s harder to get it in the first place. He suggests writing the first novels in three different trilogies. You could now be marketing three different books to three different publishers and increasing your chances of selling threefold based on sheer percentages. If you have one series or trilogy you've only got one property that you can be sending out, since you can't really send book two to an editor after they've rejected book one. You could, however, send them book one of a different series. Just helps you beat the odds.

It's not going to work for everyone, but it's some good information to use if you're planning on writing for a living.

Nateskate · Apr 8, 2008

xDemode said:
Has anyone ever written a series, finished their first and second story, and realized that they could probably go back and write the storyline that preludes the first story?

George Lucas, put your hand down.

I'm stuck in a rut, to be honest. I'm editing my first story and I realize that it is not where the story begins. If I can be blunt, a lot of shit goes down before the first story.

So here are some questions:

How can you tell if your first novel should actually be your second?

If you're lucky and someone publishes your novel, is it too late to write the story that precedes it?

If the above is possible, do readers dislike when stories are "disjointed" and published out of order?

What would you do for a Klondike bar?

I did everything wrong. I wrote out the entire first story draft. (The whole series) When I realized there was too much backstory- too many info dumps, I wrote out a second series that told the backstory.

So, now I have two series. And being extremely dimwitted, I wrote a transitional book to tie the stories together.

Fastforward, I have a publisher, but it's for the origional series (Which is in various stages of re-writes) Book one is done- awaiting publisher edits. Books two and three are near done- the only positive in this whole mess was that I know where the story ends.

Where to start: This was my problem. The story I tried to market- the historical accounts of the Universe I created, reads more like the Silmarillion. The Second reads more like Lord of the Rings.

The Publisher said to go with the strongest story- and if the series sells, then go with the prequel, because there will be an automatic market for it.

So- whatever is the strongest part of your story, use first.

timewaster · Apr 9, 2008

xDemode said:
Has anyone ever written a series, finished their first and second story, and realized that they could probably go back and write the storyline that preludes the first story?

George Lucas, put your hand down.

I'm stuck in a rut, to be honest. I'm editing my first story and I realize that it is not where the story begins. If I can be blunt, a lot of shit goes down before the first story.

So here are some questions:

How can you tell if your first novel should actually be your second?

If your story starts in the wrong place you probably should rewrite it. Every story could probably have a prequel and writing that is a different issue as to whether your first book actually deals with the right events beginning and ending in the right place to produce a satisfactory arc. If you haven't picked the right events to write about, rewrite it with the right events. It is academic whether you call it your second book or not. My suspicion would be that if you have covered the wrong bits you might need to start earlier and rewrite your current thing so that the arc begins earlier. It doesn't usually work to just tack stuff on the end or at the beginning. It isn't unusual to find you have started in the wrong place with a first novel.

If you have already sold book 1 - don't worry about it. Move on.

ebenstone · Apr 9, 2008

George RR Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" is loaded with significant backstory. He's stated that he could write an entire book on the tourney at Summer Hall...not to mention Robert's Rebellion....it's just the way you integrate it into your story.

Erin · Apr 9, 2008

I had a fantasy book plotted out, ready to start writing, then I decided I needed to establish my world first by going back a year or so with different characters and how the world & magic evolved. Fortunately, I caught myself before I started writing the "2nd" book. I'm done with the "prequel" book (submitted & resubmitted to my editor and awaiting a decision). The 2nd book I had plotted out will now be #3 or 4, because of the way Book 1 evolved.

Now, I have two book 1's to 2 different series in two fantasy genres! My biggest decision now is to decide which series I want to write in next!

As a reader, I hate reading books out of sequence. If I see a prequel come out after reading several books in the series, I won't read it and if it's a good series, it ticks me off that the author is wasting time on a prequel rather than continuing on with the story line!

xDemode · Apr 9, 2008

Wow. All of these answers are good. And because everyone makes valid points, I'm still indecisive. But at least I know the pros and cons of both.

SPMiller · Apr 9, 2008

Just like in the Star Wars prequels, you know Anakin is going to become Darth Vader. You know he's going to hook up with Luke's mom. You know the Jedi are all going to get whacked. You know only the two Wise Mentors, Yoda and Kenobi, will survive.

That's why I think a lot of people didn't like the prequels. There wasn't the same tension as there was in the "original" trilogy of movies.

Also, you run the risk of ruining your rep just like Mr Lucas did. Look at all the whining people do about Star Wars these days.

Then again, I'm talking about space opera, which wasn't exactly a spring chicken in the late 70s and wasn't any fresher in the 21st century...

Could my first novel really be my second?

xDemode

Buying a stairway to hell.

ILSinTexas

requiescat in pace

Kryianna

bluntforcetrauma

Esquire

willietheshakes

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

Dale Emery

is way off topic

BlackViolet13

Wolvel

Write the Damn Book!

yttar

practical experience, FTW

Straka

Bored Fanatic

ShebaJones

I post in the nude.

triceretops

Jeremy

Infinite in Mystery

Jeremy

Infinite in Mystery

Nateskate

timewaster

present

ebenstone

Erin

Listening to my other selves

xDemode

Buying a stairway to hell.

SPMiller

Prodigiously Hanged