"Better to write for yourself and have no public, than...

Upbeat · Apr 5, 2008

"to write for the public and have no self." QUOTE BY CYRIL CONNOLLY (1903-1974)
Perhaps that's not a welcome remark among writers who are trying to earn some money.
Still, some of the most luicrative prose is penned by those who tell it like it is as they see it, with no consideration for what the public might think.

Silver King · Apr 5, 2008

I understand Mr. Connolly enjoyed some success as a literary critic and editor, yet he failed as a writer of novels. Do you suppose the latter would have colored his opinion of what the public craves?

maestrowork · Apr 5, 2008

You write to COMMUNICATE. If you only write for yourself, for self-expression only, try a journal. If you write so that someone else will read it, understand it, enjoy it, get something from it, then you'll have to consider your reading public at least to some extent.

Devil Ledbetter · Apr 5, 2008

I just don't get how writing something other people can understand and relate to equates with, or results in, "having no self." Sorry, but that's ridiculous.

ErylRavenwell · Apr 5, 2008

Devil Ledbetter said:
I just don't get how writing something other people can understand and relate to equates with, or results in, "having no self." Sorry, but that's ridiculous.

You know what? He's probably one of those guys who uses grandiloquent words to tell some lame story that spells boredom to the audience.

bluntforcetrauma · Apr 5, 2008

ErylRavenwell said:
You know what? He's probably one of those guys who uses grandiloquent words to tell some lame story that spells boredom to the audience.

Cite sources, please. (Meant as humor).

ErylRavenwell · Apr 5, 2008

bluntforcetrauma said:
Cite sources, please.

I said "probably"! Don't crucify me, yet. This guy somehow reminds me of David Stratton, the Aussie movie critic. How I hate this guy!

celestialdancer · Apr 6, 2008

Did it ever occur to you guys that the quote means. Not writing for the public is not commercialising too much our work. To me writing is an art. The way we use certain words to show an emotion it reveals a authors point of view in life. I hate authors with big names and publish a book only to find out when your fingers are itching to flip the page that the content was garbage.

Exir · Apr 6, 2008

I hate authors with big names and publish a book only to find out when your fingers are itching to flip the page that the content was garbage.

Why hate them? For your record, I prefer novels with actual depth of meaning, as compared to mindless page-flippers, but I don't hate page-flippers. They have their place, just as chocolate and sweets have their place compared to proper food.

kct webber · Apr 6, 2008

celestialdancer said:
To me writing is an art.

An author's work only becomes art if it survives longer than the author.

Devil Ledbetter · Apr 6, 2008

celestialdancer said:
Did it ever occur to you guys that the quote means. Not writing for the public is not commercialising too much our work. To me writing is an art. The way we use certain words to show an emotion it reveals a authors point of view in life. I hate authors with big names and publish a book only to find out when your fingers are itching to flip the page that the content was garbage.

Interesting first post. Have you checked out the Newbie forum? Or did you come here specifically to argue Upbeat's position?

Welcome to AW.

Oh, BTW, I'm Devil and I've written a page-turner with emotional depth.

maestrowork · Apr 6, 2008

celestialdancer said:
Did it ever occur to you guys that the quote means. Not writing for the public is not commercialising too much our work. To me writing is an art. The way we use certain words to show an emotion it reveals a authors point of view in life. I hate authors with big names and publish a book only to find out when your fingers are itching to flip the page that the content was garbage.

You can have both a page-turner with emotional depth. Besides, if your readers are bored, if they don't understand what you're trying to say, if they feel the story goes no where, how is it going to benefit them because "there's such a emotional depth" by page 235 because your readers are not going to get to that point.

Writing is an art, but it's also a business. You can have both. You don't have to shun one for the other.

kct webber · Apr 6, 2008

maestrowork said:
You can have both a page-turner with emotional depth. Besides, if your readers are bored, if they don't understand what you're trying to say, if they feel the story goes no where, how is it going to benefit them because "there's such a emotional depth" by page 235 because your readers are not going to get to that point.

Writing is an art, but it's also a business. You can have both. You don't have to shun one for the other.

I agree completely. Art, science, and business. If you only write for yourself and with no care for the reader, that's fine. Just don't be surprised if you're the only one who wants to read it.

I get what you're saying, though, Upbeat and Dancer. I'll write 'til the cold of death freezes my fingers on the keyboard, whether anyone else reads it or not. But I'll still be taking "what readers want" into account while I'm doing it.

Upbeat · Apr 6, 2008

Fascinating thread so far !!!
So much excellent writing is ignored - a commercial failure - while big-name writers can succeed with anything - good, bad, or indifferent.
So, where does a writer find balance?
We're not talking journalists here. That should be a strictly objective endeavor.
This is about literary works. Publishers are seldom of much help to good writers trying to make a living if they've not a big name or a celebrity (usually with a ghost writer).
Some struggling writers will forfeit their souls in search of success - others will not.

MadScientistMatt · Apr 6, 2008

Well, I'm writing a how-to book - I have to make sure my audience will understand what I'm trying to say. With my WIP's genre, I'd have to wonder about my spiritual condition if I avoided trying to write in a comprehensible, and rather commercial, style.

But in the field of fiction, it sounds like Upbeat's question can be split into two different areas, the art of writing a good book and how the public finds books to read. Often book buyers go with books from authors they've read and enjoyed before. So a big-name writer might get away with writing a couple lousy books, although if you let your craft slide too long you'll be in trouble.

But if you don't believe in your own work, it's likely to stink regardless.

Devil Ledbetter · Apr 6, 2008

Upbeat said:
Fascinating thread so far !!!
So much excellent writing is ignored - a commercial failure - while big-name writers can succeed with anything - good, bad, or indifferent.
So, where does a writer find balance?

I don't think there is a pat answer to "Where does a writer find balance?" The answer should be as individual as the writer herself.

We're not talking journalists here. That should be a strictly objective endeavor.
This is about literary works. Publishers are seldom of much help to good writers trying to make a living if they've not a big name or a celebrity (usually with a ghost writer).
Some struggling writers will forfeit their souls in search of success - others will not.

I don't believe in souls, so I'm safe. To me, success is good writing. A best seller of crappy writing is not success, to me.

Upbeat · Apr 6, 2008

David Ledbetter - See? You DO have a soul, or you would not define 'success' like that!

Upbeat · Apr 6, 2008

MadScientistMatt...'How To' books are popular, with a good chance of publication, since more and more folks seek to help themselves rather than hiring.
Good luck with that. I'm curious about the subject.

Devil Ledbetter · Apr 6, 2008

Upbeat said:
David Ledbetter - See? You DO have a soul, or you would not define 'success' like that!

I might have a soul, but I don't believe in it.

My husband thinks I have one.

MadScientistMatt · Apr 6, 2008

Upbeat said:
MadScientistMatt...'How To' books are popular, with a good chance of publication, since more and more folks seek to help themselves rather than hiring.
Good luck with that. I'm curious about the subject.

Aftermarket automotive engine electronics - it's a bit of a specialty book for hobbyists.

mscelina · Apr 6, 2008

What is the point of writing if you don't write for yourself? Hmmm? How can you hope to entertain, tell the story, get your message across if it's not something you're at least marginally interested in? For that matter, how can a writer make money and garner a fan base if they're not writing stories that they love?

Nice sentiment. Completely inapplicable to the world of writers that gather here. I write for money, and I'm hoping to write for a hell of a lot more. however, I reserve the right as an artist to write about exactly what I want to write about--and learn a little something more about myself in the process.

William Haskins · Apr 6, 2008

writing for yourself doesn't mean that you can't write something many can relate to.

writing for the public doesn't necessarily mean you have a fucking clue what the public wants.

Silver King · Apr 6, 2008

This thread has garnered some interesting responses worthy of the Roundtable forum, so we'll move it there now and see what other writers have to say about the subject.

Phaeal · Apr 6, 2008

I write for myself, with the hope that I'm not so weird I'll attract no public.

Polenth · Apr 6, 2008

Phaeal said:
I write for myself, with the hope that I'm not so weird I'll attract no public.

If you are very weird, you'll just attract weird fans. So it'll all balance out.

"Better to write for yourself and have no public, than...

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