[Script analyst] Promedia Entertainment

[wickybd]

Has anyone heard of Promedia Entertainment. I bought this training video and software package from them that's supposed to teach you how to become a script reader, but I'm wondering if it's a scam. They say after you complete the training (although there isn't much to it) and submit samples that they will put you in their reading pool and you'll be a script reader. Does this even seem like a conceivable way to become a script reader?

[sassenach]

A lot of readers are in the union, which I understand is quite difficult to break into.

From what I've read, there are always more readers than jobs--both union and non-union.

It's telling that their site doesn't provide a client list or any staff cv's etc.

[Victoria]

There are similar schemes in book publishing--companies that sell materials that supposedly teach you how to become a publisher's reader or proofreader. Publishers use their own readers and proofreaders, who have professional credentials--they also know about the schemes, and it's extremely unlikely they'd hire one of the people who'd bought the materials. I'm betting it's the same with script readers. This is a variation of those "work at home" schemes the Better Business Bureau warns about, where you have to buy a kit.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware/ (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

[suzypooh]

I recently purchased software with this company and I too feel it is too simple. Were you able to return your software for a full refund within 30 days. If so, where?

[homerunscoxnet]

I too purchased the training video and software from
Promedia, but I'm afraid that it's a scam. I left a message on their answering machine and was promised
a callback--never got one. I sent them an email with a
question--never got a reply. My husband tried to track
them down (he used to be a skip tracer), and it seems
that the address is bogus. Face it, we've been had!

[coolaj]

I got a reply via email but I'm still skeptical. The reply to my question was that you dont have to buy the kit but you have to have taken a course somewhere like in college. He said there is one in LA for $625 plus materials. So I will wait to see what he says when I let him know I had a course already at Ohio State. I also asked for a list of clients.

Other than that I'm sure it is a scam. Email was very unprofessional.

AJ

[xples]

Sounds like immature "sour grapes" for no reason from people re: being a script reader. I ordered the software and training program and thought it was fine. I have no complaints about it at all. Furthermore, they have politely and professionally addressed my questions. In fact, I'm surprised it was only $50. Anybody who even has a fractional clue about the industry and script reading, would know they received a good deal from Promedia for their education.

Also, when I listened to their message it said if a person already has experience they don't need the training course, they just need to send in their resume and samples. This is common in many professions like graphic artists, writing, etc. People want to see actual samples of an applicants' work. This makes perfect sense. Completely logical.

They even refer people to college courses as another option instead of their training program. With their training program they give a 30 day guarantee.

What else do you thumb suckers want? Somebody to do the actual learning and work required? Grow up!

[marky1]

Again, note from Hollywood: You've been had. Listen to Victoria.

[xples]

Note to Marky...you missed the point. Promedia never told me that if I spend a mere $50 I will become a script reader.

Any intelligent screenwriter knows that BEFORE on staff script readers review scripts [for those studios that have them] agents what coverage done. If fact, agents prefer having coverage done BEFORE they will even consider representing a screenwriter. Furthermore, most screenwriters want analysis done BEFORE they even consider submitting their scripts to anyone at all. This is common knowledge in Hollywood.

[marky1]

Another one bites the dust. Next!

[xples]

Marky...

When you go to CompUsa and buy an accounting program does that make you an accountant? No my friend...you actually have to learn and do something substantial.

Likewise...spending $50 does not make one a script reader! Any intelligent non bright-eyed and bushy- tailed human being should know this. Most people can come up with $50. I spent $50 = now I'm a script reader?! Wow what a deal!

I have educated myself with the help of PM and have been assigned work from them because they liked the quality of what I did. Put yourself through the necessary paces and maybe the same could happen for you. But with your negative, cynical attitude, I doubt it.

[marky1]

See above posters.

[Dave Kuzminski]

Okay, you've got work assigned from PM. That makes you an employee of theirs, so you're not unbiased. I think your enthusiasm might be better appreciated if you were doing work for some other outfit as a result of what you learned from PM.

[xples]

Hi Dave:

I do not consider myself "enthusiastic" only realistic.

I did my homework. The going rate for learning script reading is around $500 - $800 and doesn't include a software program. That's an objective fact separate from me, you, the others on this website and PM.

Just as a friendly heads up [not to you Dave but others on this site], I read of a company in the midwest who someone called a "scam" on the internet. The company sued the server and the individuals for defamation. As I recall, the settlement in their favor was over $250,000. I would suggest that a company who offers a training course, ships it, honors their guarantee, refers you to others if you prefer to take your training another way, and tells you clearly that you don't need their training course if you already have experience, is not a "scam" by any stretch of the imagination, regardless of how fertile that imagination might be!

FYI, I have done outside projects from referrals and expect to do more.

[MUSETTE222]

YES, I'VE BEEN SCAMMED BY PROMEDIA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found an ad for Promedia, not online, but running in the local (Denver) paper last month. I checked out the phone message and the website, and sent an email with questions that were answered. The site and my email reply stated specifically that once the course had been completed, they would add me to their list of readers and start sending me scripts. I asked again when I ordered the software, and the girl who took my order verified that they hired anyone who completed the course.

I received my materials, which weren't too bad. The course consists of a videotape of a guy lecturing, a printed outline that follows the lecture, a couple of pages of industry terms, and some software that formats your treatment or story analysis. It instructs you to go online to one of the sites that has scripts to download for free, and do 7 each of the treatments and analyses, and fax it to them. They would evaluate them, and send me back copies of scripts they had on file, then compare my treatments to those written by their existing staff. The email had advised me that most people finish the course in about 2 weeks. I had my misgivings, but went ahead and did the work, and faxed copies to them last week. I hadn't heard anything, so I sent an email followup on 9/27. It bounced back as an invalid address. The fax number still works, but the website pages aren't working - except. of course, for the one where they're selling their software.

I knew I was taking a risk going in, since it was kind of unorthodox and cheap. but I thought maybe they'd discourage most people with the assignments. and have something to offer people who actually followed through. The 30 day "money back" has expired, of course, but I'm going to try and get my money back anyway. It's not "just 50 bucks" to me. I put a lot of time into doing the required work, and also put off searching for another part time job while I was doing it. We're not financially desperate, but we are hurting, just like a lot of other people out there. I'm sick of these cynical CRIMINALS preying on desperate people.They ran an ad in a major newspaper for a couple of weeks just in this city. They spent thousands of dollars doing it, if it was in more than one city. Who knows how many hundreds of people they defrauded? Worse yet, how many other people missed legitimate job opportunities while chasing this illusion?

Anyone who wants to refute this, send me the name and phone number of a real person at this alleged "business", and I'll contact them. If it turns out to be a misunderstanding, I'll post an apology, so I don't get convicted of libel, as the previous poster threatens. But frankly, I'm not worried.






Next Topic >>

[xples]

I really do hope you plan on posting your apology asap because...I just copied your last posting and sent it to:

contact@promediainc.net

and YES it was received...and responsed to,

and YES I tried all the web pages and they worked fine.

If you're unhappy or for some reason unable to use a product from any company, return it and get a refund. Don't fabricate stories about the people. Setting aside all the possible legal implications of defaming them, have some self-respect and common decency.

[capitalistwriter]

"Don't fabricate stories about the people."

What makes you think Mussette is fabricating anything? Sounds to me like you're the one defaming Mussette.

You had a good experience with this company. Fine. You told us about it. Others apparently have had less satisfying experiences. When you start attacking people who criticize the company you begin to sound less like a satisfied customer and more like a company shill. If you want to help and support the company, it would probably be best to leave these kind of comments out of your posts.

[xples]

I guess we must have read a different e-mail from Musette. Because what I read was PM doesn't have a website or e-mail. The fact is, they do. To write that a company doesn't have something when they do in fact have that very thing - what is this kind of writing called exactly? Please tell me so I can get clarification.

I'm just trying to be fair and reasonable. PM is not perfect. I am not perfect. Nobody on this site is perfect. But at least let's try to be sensible.

[webary]

I'm not offering legal advise, but based on my legal background for anyone to write in a public forum like this, that a person and/or company is a "scam", "criminal", etc. is libel. I don't recommend every being a defendant in a libel lawsuit unless you have very deep pockets. The discovery process can take months, if not years, totalling tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees alone. Not to mention the time and stress. Publishers [on the internet ISP's, Message Boards, etc. are "publishers"] may have insurance to cover some of the expenses. Most authors [those writing the e-mails] do not have insurance.

[capitalistwriter]

Mussette never said PM doesn't have a website or e-mail. What Mussette said was that he/she tried to send them an e-mail and it bounced. Mussette also said that he/she tried to go to their website but it wasn't working. Those are simple and clear statements. The fact that you decided to read between the lines, xples, and interpret it as "PM doesn't have a website or e-mail" tells me much about your perpective on this.

[equinoxia]

here is what appeared in the sunday, sept. 28 edition of the st. louis post-dispatch classifieds help wanted section under the category general:

MOVIE SCRIPT READERS NEEDED IMMEDIATELY. FT/PT. 888/603-4281.

the recorded message referred callers to the website (www.promediainc.net), indicating that experienced script readers should click on the "contact" icon and send resume and most recent script coverage to the given address, while those without script reading experience should click on the training icon. nothing too untoward about this. at the training link, interested parties are told: "If you do not have actual experience, please do not be discouraged, we do have some training programs available to get you started." and a bit further down: "Once you complete the training you will be placed in our readers' pool. Scripts are sent to you either as a hard copy or e-mail attachment. A good reader can be as busy as they want to be. As mentioned above, up to 15 scripts per week is considered part time. Doing this full time, a good reader can typically handle 20 average length scripts per week. then: "How do I get started?" and finally: "The cost for the ScriptReader software and training video is only $49.95 plus $4.95 shipping and handling." at this point, it helps to remember that the way training for employees normally works is that, first, YOU HAVE TO BE HIRED and become an employee before an employer will offer or attempt to train you. secondly, legitimate employers as a rule do not expect employees--let alone propective employees--to pay for training; those employers train them, or arrange for the training, at company expense, and for good reason. a reasonably prudent person might well have reservations about going forward with promedia's training at this point. now, there's nothing wrong with offering training, and only training, for a fee to people interested in learning a trade or profession, of course. but the pitch used by promedia on their website's training link, as quoted above, most certainly gives the impression that promedia will "get you started" with script reading by sending you scripts once the training materials have been purchased and utilized. and if "getting started" after ordering the materials is contingent upon demonstrating a certain proficiency, promedia conveniently fails to mention this. say what you will xples about those having even a fractional amount of knowledge about the business, there are more and less scrupulous ways of representing what you do, and i think this a somewhat less than scrupulous way. at the risk of offending or boring those savvy enough to realize that when promedia says they will get you started working reading scripts after you've bought and completed training, they really mean that they will get you started IF THEY THINK YOU'RE GOOD ENOUGH, i think such information should be prominently displayed, even if it seems redundant to some. i did go to the bbb website and enter promedia in their report search, and the search result showed that promedia had a satisfactory standing with the bbb, having had one complaint which was "addressed" by the company. however, the company has not been listed with the bbb all that long, so i think it is inconclusive. we do have one positive report about xples' experience with promedia's script reading program, but also i believe that there is some cause for concern after reading some of the other posts so far from those who have bought the training materials from promedia. i am not referring so much to those who simply have the feeling that the training is too simple and are wondering. i am talking about the people who have have not been able to get a response from promedia, one of whom indicates that the company's address is not legitimate, and that of musette, who even completed the training and sent the training scripts in to promedia. xples claims that musette has actually gotten a response from promedia, but i don't think anyone can know that for certain except musette. so i would very much like to hear from musette and homerunscoxnet about where things stand with them as of right now. promedia could be legitimate with their script reading enterprise, but at the least, they need to be more forthcoming and apparently more responsive in order to overcome an understandable degree of skepticism. lastly, for xples, the tone of your communication is very confrontational, intolerant, and smug. that, together with your alleged act of sending musette's post to promedia, does indeed make it seem as though you are on the promedia payroll in a greater capacity than just reading scripts. if you did indeed send them her post, it may seem that you are being resourceful, but i think it is rather juvenile and spiteful. instead of doing that, why not help her get in touch with the company? it was not your place to send her post to them.

[canyon laurel]

Reading some e-mails in this forum reminds me of those freshman classes in college when the students thought they were "smarter" than the teachers! Remember that? They could never grasp the value of sitting there and the depth of knowledge the profs had stored away in their minds. Humility came later - maybe as seniors or in a masters program or even a doctorate.

Prior to becoming a screenwriter I was a script reader/analyst for many years [btw for all those budding screenwriters, learning script reading/analysis is a big plus.] I would have given my eye teeth and more for a software program to help me do my work. Learning how to do it? I had to learn from scratch. I tried to find someone who would help me but nobody would teach me. If I had an instructor I would have thought I had died gone to heaven.

Believe me - in this industry if you find someone who will stop and teach you something you are way ahead of the curve. A price tag cannot be put on this. This is one of the very few industries left that works sort of like the old "apprenticeship" systems. Learning and merit is everything but you have to find someone who will teach you.

It appears many on this site misunderstand the industry and therefore do not understand the value of anyone or any company that is willing to teach them the "trade", so to speak. If they ever become serious about the profession they hopefully will acquire some humility along the way.

[Kuorisama]

I've read through the posts, as well. The people aren't blasting the software. The people are questioning whether Promedia is a legit company. I'm questioning that now too (I'm in CA for anyone who cares). Their ad just showed up in our paper, I have ordered the software, but after reading the posts here, I'm thinking I should contact my credit card company and put a stop payment on the order before I lose $50 on something that won't pan out.

In case you don't know what's going on with CA (if you are in the US, I don't know how you don't know), we are going through a govenor recall and the highest unemployment rate ever. I am living testament to that fact. I have lived here a year and applied for almost every job I could find and still nothing. I am registered with 4 temp agencies. This thing with Promedia sounds like a God send to me, but not if it's a scam. I can't afford to blow $50 on something that might or might not happen... especially if you can't get in contact with their company to send the software back for the "30-day unconditional money back guarantee".

[canyon laurel]

I did notice that not one person on this site has said: they ordered the training materials, were not happy or for some other reason returned them, and did not get a refund. So it appears they actually received the materials they ordered, and, I assume from what I read, the materials are effective or they wouldn't be able to produce what they have produced. Just knowing this industry, to have software that helps with analysis work suggests that whoever created it must know something about it.

What people seem to be suggesting is: that a "phantom" created the software and video instruction and sent it to them. If anyone has received a refund after returning their package, I suppose a "phantom" did that do.

I also notice the only positive person on this site is not really that welcome by the others, who seem to be on a sort of rabid "witch hunt" for no apparent reason. The only real complaint that I have been able to understand is an individual not being able to get through on e-mail but this could be that they put in the wrong address. Which often can happen. Or for some reason the site was down for some technical issue. Happens on sites all over the world everyday. But the person doesn't even entertain this possibility. A complaint from the same person is that the website doesn't work. Not it doesn't work for her, but that it doesn't work period.

To me the only real legitimate complaint is that a person ordered the materials, returned the materials according to the policy of the company and did not receive a refund.

As an experiment why don't you contact the company and cancel your order. Come back here and tell us what happened? Where you able to contact them and did they comply with your request?

[Kuorisama]

I actually did call the number provided on the website. I followed the instructions given, was on hold for 15minutes, and then some guy picked up speaking Spanish and told me to call back later. This was after listening to what sounded like a burgular alarm going off and then a car alarm... I'm surprised I didn't get hung up on.

As to the program, the originator of this little topic posted in other places. I looked at those responses too. Script analysts - like yourself - said (and I quote):

Mister_Underhill: "You sure as hell don't need any special software. You type coverage up in Word, usually using some simple template that the company you're reading for provides."
and
"I can't imagine that you could read from anywhere but right here in town. Every company I've ever worked for still uses paper to send out scripts, and they want quick turnarounds. So you stop by the office every few days to pick up and drop off material (or if you work for a spendy company, you get messengered stuff), and you usually turn the coverage around within a few days at the most.

This thing sounds like a gyp. Definitely contact the BBB if they hassle you on a refund. "

bscript: "I know a lot of professional readers with production companies, studios and a few freelancers and I can't remember even one of them getting their gig via this sort of route."

love2code: "hehehe... you don't need no software... The only thing you really need to know how to do to be a script reader is read and write. You read the script, write what the story was about so someone can figure out the story w/o reading the script. Then you mention what was good about it and what wasn't, along with any guidelines as to what any particular studio/production office wants or doesn't want and any requirements. Stuff which the studio or production office will tell you."

It doesn't make sense that a company would advertise that you can work ANYWHERE in the US if seasoned script analysts are saying that's not true. Not to mention, the idea that each company has their own little formula for the type of coverage they expect to receive contradicts the need for software at all. Bscript says there is a book for $12 that "goes into detail on what to look for in scripts (that's why I bought it)... includes sample coverages and blank ones - basically a 'how to do it yourself' kind of book."

Don't know about you, but I would rather get a $12 book than $50 software. But, seeing as how I'm about 6hrs from LA, neither would do me much good.

[canyon laurel]

Well I suppose a person can educate themselves a number of ways. Buying a book is one way. Taking a college course is another way. Purchasing a training course that includes software to use is a third way. Maybe there are more.

Actually, with all due respect to other script readers, doing coverage or analysis requires skill and a good coverage includes several parts and an analysis includes many more parts. Good thorough analyses can command over $300 in fees and up. Strictly speaking you do not need software but it would increase your productivity if it is designed right. This is true with most software in any profession. Doctors can do their work without software and did so for many years. Now most have software programs for Patient Management, records, etc.

Regarding the logistics. Part of the time I was doing script reading I was not living anywhere near L.A. With the advent of the computer I noticed more and more scripts being sent by disk and/or e-mail. Of course some were still sent via mail. I never had to pick up the scripts except on one occasion. This is especially true for doing coverage or analyses for screenwriters. Screenwriters are spread all over the place. Certainly they do not expect analysts to jump in a car or a plane and pick up their scripts. This is simply not how it is done.

However, please keep us posted about your refund. Now you have piqued my curiousity.

[litra6]

I have written three screenplays. Purchased books, attended an expensive seminar and bought software to help me. Don't regret it at all. Very helpful. Would do it over.

However, for my first two scripts I could not get an agent interested in my work. Upon finishing my third script a friend in the business referred me to Promedia. At the time I lived in the Northwest. So I called and they said to send the script down and they would assign a script analyst to take a look at it. Very professional. So I did, and the same week an analyst contacted me. She was from Arizona. She said she was reading the script and would do an analysis and send it to me and then we could talk about it via the phone or e-mail. Also very professional.

I received the analysis and was very happy with it. She had found some weaknesses in my structure and characterization and made some good recommendations on how to adjust it.

Long story short, I took her recommendations and after the rewrite contacted a few agents. One was an agent I had contacted regarding my first script. I told him what I had done, and this time he said he was very interested in seeing the original script, the rewrite and the analysis. I sent them down and he called me saying, this was a script he could work with and that he was glad I did the rewrite because he agreed with the changes the analyst recommended. He shopped the script and it has been optioned.

I don't know about all these posts here but I know that Promedia must be doing something right!

[actingup]

Hi,

I purchased the software from Promedia. I haven't used it yet but it is past the 30 days. I'm extremely busy so I haven't had a chance to get to it. I don't want to waste time if it is a scam. Can someone give me contact info because when I enter the website I've had for them it doesn't work. Is there any more info on contacting them that anyone has. By the way, before I bought the software I spoke to a man who spoke English who explained everything to me. He didn't guarantee me work but he told me I could be kept as busy as I wanted. Please help me with contact info so I know what to do now. Thanks.

[Kuorisama]

Hey, I would love to help you, but the page that was working last week suddenly died. It no longer works. I did order the software and then cancelled the order after reading this page... like two hours later (canyon laurel, get to that in a sec). They sent me a receipt, this is the info listed on it:
Merchant's name: PROMEDIA,INC.
Merchant's phone: (760)634-2494
Merchant's e-mail: contact@promediainc.net

Jackie Smith replied to my cancellation request and said it would take app. 3 business days for the credit to show up and it has. The name on my charge/credit places them in Carlsbad, CA (if that helps).

Hope you can get into contact with them. I tried using yahoo to search for the website, but that was a no go. There seem to be a lot of companies called Promedia out there. What you might want to do, Actingup, is watch the boards for any new posts about the software and have those people give you the web page since it is a limited time thing. Wonder which city they will show up in next?

[MUSETTE222]

Hello, All -

Wow - stir the nest a little, and the hornets really buzz! Thanks to all who replied - even those of you who cautioned me about the evils of libel then proceeded to defame me. Though I know this will cause a lot more flak, I'd just like to say that for a group of people who make a living working with words, there are some very undiscerning and non-objective readers here!

Anyway. here's what's happening:

1 - I still have received no word from Promedia Inc.
2 - The website won't come up at all anymore - tried about 20 minutes ago.
3 - The email just bounced back again
4 - Many thanks to Kuorisama, who posted the phone number in the previous post. I just called it, and a pleasant woman named Sheila answered. I told her that I'd faxed my scripts weeks ago, had no response, and had not been able to contact them. She said the website had been working as of yesterday, but they'd changed their provider, and had had a lot of problems. This is feasible, since I've had the same thing happen myself. She said she'd have one of the readers contact me later today.

For now, I'm still skeptical, but want this enough to give it a chance. So I've held off on requesting the refund for the moment, and will keep you posted (literally) on the outcome.

M222

[canyon laurel]

Just now I unravelled the big "mystery" simply by going to:

www.promediainc.net and clicking their Contact web page!

Like most companies they also have numbers for ordering which are on the Training web page! [Click:Training web page and scroll down].

Like many companies, maybe they are using a third party fulfillment center to process and ship their orders. Who knows? Who cares? What difference does it make? Obviously people are receiving the materials.

I also e-mailed them at: contact@promediainc.net and they responded very quickly compared to most companies.

Maybe they've had some technical difficulties with their website. I don't know. But the problem is not uncommon, that's for sure. This sort of thing happens. Three times this week I couldn't use my web based e-mail because of temporary problems. Too busy, etc. And my e-mail server is backed by a major Fortune 500 company.

Sadly, with the exception of a few obviously credible people who know the business, this forum is full of speculation, second guessing, extrapolation, sarcasm, insinuation and worse.

Even the person who said she cancelled her order admitted she received a refund.

[KBeereal]

Wow. I've just read all the reply's to this forum, and I don't know how to feel. :\ I just ordered the software this past Saturday. I had been emailing them back and forth with my questions, and I did get quick replies.They sent me a reply with my receipt. However, when I asked the question... "how long after I complete the training will I be able to get scripts to read, I got no response." I am going to see what happens and will keep everyone posted. I really hope that this turns out to be a good thing, because, like another poster said, the unemployment rate sucks in Cali, well... it sucks here in Michigan too. I lost my job back in January of this year, and have been trying to get back into the work place every since then, and I too am registered with 3 temp agencies. They claim to give an unconditional 100% refund if not satisfied, so... I'll see what happens.

[marky48]

I don't know what this software thing is, but as a SAG member with an address seven miles from the studios in Burbank I wouldn't give this venture much hope. This town is overrun with readers and wannabe readers. Same goes for all of the trades in the Biz.

[MUSETTE222]

Okay, here's what's going on:

The day of my last post (10/10), I got a phone message from Paul Kerr (?), and also an email from Brandon Davis. After explaining the website outage, they stated the following (pasted from email):

"Regarding your submission. We have received it and it is in the queue for review. With our current workflow, reviews are typically being done 45 - 60 days from date of submission. Upon review we will notify you."

This is a little detail that was never mentioned in any of their materials or website info. So, right now it still seems they could still be legit. However, I still have a couple of serious concerns:

1 - If they're backlogged 1 1/2 - 2 months, why do they continue to solicit new students in various cities all over the country?
and
2 - If it takes them a minimum of 6 weeks to evaluate the submissions after they receive them, how do they propose to honor a 30-day money back guarantee? Obviously, the estimated 2 weeks to course completion I was told before I placed my order iwas blatantly untrue.

Also a couple of things I didn't mention earlier. The instructions said not to submit the samples too early, or they woudn't be considered, since they feel all new students need extensive practice. I wouldn't mind so much, if the sample they sent hadn't been so amateurish. Granted, I'm not unbiased, but I think my first effort was at least as good. Also, the package included an offer for a Script Consultant course for another $129. You'd think they'd at least wait for you to pass the initial course before offering another one.

And so I continue to languish (sigh) -
M222

[James D Macdonald]

Let's look at the text on the front page at Promedia. There are only four sentences, so I'll look at them a sentence at a time. Emphasis mine.

Promedia Entertainment is dedicated to providing the entertainment and publishing industries with qualified, well trained personnel.

I don't know about the entertainment industry, but no one among my contacts in the publishing industry has ever heard of these people.


Being familiar with industry standards and protocols, we are able to find professionals to match the requirements of studios, production companies, agencies, consultants, publishing houses and other parties involved in the design, development and marketing of creative intellectual properties.

Again, I don't know about those other people, but the publishing houses I'm familiar with don't need an agency to find the people they're looking for. The career paths for editorial and production are known; neither involve this or any other study-at-home program.


Both the entertainment and publishing industries are growing at an unprecedented rate.

I don't know about entertainment, but publishing's growth rate hasn't changed in about twenty years.

Promedia Entertainment is uniquely positioned to supply the talent pool needed to accommodate this growth.

This may be true.

================

I'm not saying that Promedia is a scam. Perhaps one reason folks are suspicious of this particular company is that on the surface it resembles some other businesses that are scams. See <a href="http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Telemarketing/Inbound/MinorIn/HowTo/work_at_home.htm" target="_new">Crimes of Persuasion</a> for some examples.

[Kuorisama]

As you all know, my business with Promedia is at an end, but I like to check back every now and again to see how everyone else is doing.

Good luck, Musette. If I had let the order go thru, I would have sent it back after hearing half the stuff they have told you.

And, thanks to James... your post further justifies my decision to just cancel my order. And, it's that much better coming from someone in the field.

[canyon laurel]

Are you sure you're telling the whole story of your experience with Promedia? Because after reading enough of your posts I contacted them and asked them specifically about you and they told me some things that you have quite conveniently omitted from and added to your tale. Unfortunately, for you, your tale is being told in a public forum and has quite evidently caused harm to Promedia.

As an aside, my personal "favorite" was you calling them a "scam" and "criminals" and still claiming that you hoped to work with them! Talk about discrediting yourself!

[canyon laurel]

Another post here really made me smile. Apparently someone was quite shocked that Promedia wants to know that someone's work is good enough! How could Promedia think such a thing? How dare they?! The person who posted their big surprise even did it in capital letters. I used to be in my own business. Got out of it. Couldn't stand it anymore. Why? Illogical people.

[James D Macdonald]

Is there any reason to believe that xples, Canyon Laurel, and the guy who owns Promedia are three different people?

[canyon laurel]

I didn't realize this site was only for negative people I thought it was open to the public. If only negative comments are welcome then please put a notice on this forum that anybody who has had a positive experience or wants to make a positive comment is not invited. Then the nature of this forum will be clarified.

My advice to Promedia is:

Do a better job of screening out people BEFORE they buy your product. Screen out the following people:

1. Those who think they're buying a job for $49.95.
2. Those who cannot understand a simple guarantee.
3. Those who are surprised that you expect good work.
4. Those that can't comprehend that Script Analyst courses typically cost in the range of $700 - $1500. I know someone who recently took such a course and she spend thousands.
5. Those, who for $49.95, think they can tell you how to run your company.

If people can't figure these simple realities out, then for sure you don't want to work with them in anything. Imagine what it would like to work with some of the people on this site. My God. Everyday would be a nightmare from hell. Bottom line: if they don't get it they don't get it and probably never will. Don't waste your time and energy fiddling around trying to explain it.

I also suggest you raise your price asap. This will weed even more people out! If something doesn't cost enough people don't appreciate it.

Weed'em out on the front end and safe yourself lots of unnecessary grief.

[marky48]

Well your friend was just what those people were looking for and this looks like a scam to me since I live in Hollywood. But I know that is so negative. What next?

[canyon laurel]

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about: I live in Hollywood and it looks like a "scam". Oh. OK. Lots of people live in Hollywood. 12 million people live in LA County. And...?

Since you live in Hollywood you must know that several of the colleges in LA County offer expensive courses in Script Analysis. Since you live in Hollywood you also must be familiar with the use of readers/analysts. A company needing this kind of work shouldn't be a surprise to you.

Look, if I were Promedia, I wouldn't even bother offering a training program to anyone. Forget it. Especially for $50. What a hassle. No way. Nix the whole thing. If I did, I would charge much more for it. Way more. Or, let them go take a college course if they want to do it.

Screenwriters pay big money for software and seminars and other learning tools. Many have thousands invested in learning their skill. Then they have to sit down and write a long script with absolutely no guarantee that anyone is even interested in their work at all. Script readers should be made to do the same thing so they respect the profession or... let them find something else to do. Good bye. Good luck. Get another job.

Why should readers, who are critiquing writers' work, get in on the cheap and act like they do here? Imagine how disrespectful they would be to a screenwriter who dedicated perhaps years of his or her life to producing a piece of work. Next thing you know the likes of you and others might be calling the screenwriter a "scam", just because you felt like it. You might be calling a writers' agent a "scam", just because you felt like it. You might be calling a producer a "scam", just because it was something fun to do that day. Let's all get together and call people scams and criminals! What fun! But wait...when we do it let's not tell the whole story that's even better!

Listen up Promedia! Please...I beg you. Don't let any of these people get into this industry.

[marky48]

Lady I don't know where you're from but unless you mean USC, and even then, college courses out here are free. Or damn close to it. I'm a student at Cal State and the LA Community College district right now. I classify what you're talking about as scam artist territory. There is nothing here in Hollywoodland that we have the need to recruit help for. You're shovelling manure against the tide on this one. It's obvious.

[Kuorisama]

"Imagine how disrespectful they would be to a screenwriter who dedicated perhaps years of his or her life to producing a piece of work. "

You just described editors in a publishing company. Their job is to stomp all over the thing someone spent ALL their life writing. If a person wants to be a REAL writer, they have to expect at least one editor to send back their story and say it is total trash and stop writing. It comes with the territory. Though, granted, the editor probably has a master's in English and literature or something.

I totally agree that someone who paid $50 to get some software shouldn't be allowed in to the biz. That's too easy; and a complete smack in the face to those who spent however much taking classes to get a certificate that says they are trained PROFESSIONALLY in the field. This situation is just like those "make $5 million by sitting at home on your @$$ all day and stuffing envelopes" things.... a crock of $h!t. If it were that easy then everyone would do it. Everyone wants the easy way and there is nothing wrong with that, just doesn't work that way... unfortunately.

Oh, and I may not be in Southern CA, but I do know that college courses in CA are dirt cheap. It's the property values and rent that kills everyone.

[canyon laurel]

Can you imagine this?

USC is free now is it? Not the last time I checked. This is just another example of the kind of thing I'm talking about. College is free? I live in Laurel Canyon and college is NOT free in California. It's certainly not free at USC. I do not know of a free course anywhere in Story/Script Analysis.

Promedia...if you're listening: would you really want a person who thinks college is free talking to lets say a dedicated screenwriter or their agent or a producer? Would you want that to happen? What if an agent tells them something and they start acting like this person? You see... if someone does not know how to analysis a college tuition schedule how will they know how to analysis a script? Now you get what I'm talking about I hope. Think about it. Next thing you know you have some smart aleck college student telling the producer he's "shovelling manure" and it's your neck on the line. Forget these people. Up the ante. Raise the bar. Find some real professionals.

[canyon laurel]

Now take Kuorisama for example. From what I read she canceled his or her order and you refunded her. Now do you think he or she would be happy? No, of course not. Could you imagine working with someone like this on a daily basis? Could you imagine how they would act towards people? Disrespectful, impolite, unprofessional. You could never do enough for them. Count your lucky stars the order was cancelled! Nothing but grief and more grief. They don't deserve to be in this industry.

[MysticWolf1]

Look, I have neither anything to gain nor anything to lose from Promedia. The $50.00 fee is part of the SCAM! By keeping the price reasonable, this ropes in people under the guise they will be FULLY QUALFIED readers for screenplays! What a BARGAIN! A course that others would have to pay 1000s for, is only $50.00! And it seems they guarantee work! Who could ask for anything more! This just feeds off the gulilble!

[James D Macdonald]

What is the tuition for California residents? How much does it cost to go to college in California?


If you are a California resident, then you do not pay tuition, only fees. The cost of school varies depending on which one you attend. Please see this link to our College Guide, which has information on all the public systems and also private schools. You can search by system, specific school or program offering and more: www.cpec.ca.gov/CollegeGuide/CollegeGuide.asp

-- California Postsecondary Education Commission FAQ


<hr />

"Thanks to the most generous financial aid program in the nation, the Cal Grant guarantee program signed by Gov. Davis in 2000, all students who meet grade and eligibility requirements will continue to receive payment of full college and university fees, including fee increases, at the University of California and California State University."

-- September 16, 2003
Opinion Editorial
By Diana Fuentes-Michel
Executive Director, California Student Aid Commission
California’s Commitment to College Financial Aid

<hr />


"...unless you mean USC ... college courses out here are free. Or damn close to it. "
-- Marky48 (10/22/03 9:09 pm)


"USC is free now is it?"
-- canyon laurel (10/23/03 12:25 am)

<hr />

[Kuorisama]

You don't know me. Don't pretend you do. I cancelled my order out of doubt. When I doubt, my money does not get spent and this forum caused A LOT of doubt. I shouldn't have placed my order in the first place because I can't spare the money; and I said I would never pay someone to pay me.

I haven't said anything bad to you, CL, but keep badmouthing me and I'll lay into you like you wouldn't believe. Stick to the truth as you know it and leave the drama at home. You keep telling everyone else to grow up, why don't you? I've stated what happened to me and what I thought about it. It's not my fault that some spanish-speaking someone picked up the phone when I called and then told me to call back later. That doesn't even seem professional to me. I went searching for other perspectives on this company (from the professionals you keep harping on) and they all agree. All you did was shoot them down, too.

Now, either you're on the payroll or you're just bored out of your mind and like flaming people. What is in it for you? If people want to bitch about Promedia, this is a public forum, what's your issue? Are you upset this wasn't around when you were learning or something? 'Cause that's all this sounds like to me.

Oh, and if you want to talk to Promedia email them; I'm sure they would love to hear from you. If they are so worried about this board, they would send a rep to say something... or have they already?

[Kuorisama]

I just thought about what you wrote earlier. Talk about unprofessional:

"...I contacted them and asked them specifically about you and they told me some things that you have quite conveniently omitted from and added to your tale..."

What is Promedia doing telling an unknown third-party about dealings they are having with another client/potential-employee, especially when those dealings are neither resolved nor terminated? That sounds extremely unprofessional to me.

[canyon laurel]

At Cal State Los Angeles the minium fee is: $912 for 0-6 units. Plus all other fees and materials.

USC is a private college and the tutiton is substantial.

Of course for any college across the country grants are available for people who qualify. But this doesn't mean college is free.

[MysticWolf1]

If that truly is the case, then this thread needs to go to the "Take It Outside Board."

I just don't understand: don't people have a right to warn others of a potential scam, even if it isn't? If one person encounters difficulty working with a company, then it's likely others will have difficulty as well.

I think threads such as this and all the others on the Bewares board are meant to throw caution to the wind and make people think before they leap!

[canyon laurel]

I asked this before and I ask it again: is this forum only for bitching? Because if it is please post this clearly so people that are satisified with Promedia or want to add another viewpoint to the discussion will know they are not welcome.

I happen to know there are always two sides to every story. I think most reasonable people know this. Kuorisama, how do you know the matter you refer to is not resolved? I was trying to be fair and wanted to make sure I was accurate and that is why I called to find out. They did not disclose the details to me but they did say what I read was not the whole story. Of course I was not surprised by this.

In your instance, you placed a call and talked to a Spanish person. That's strange but not too strange in California. Later when you asked to cancel your order apparently it was done. So some people come on this site and freely use the word "scam". Were you "scammed"? Talking to a Spanish person is not a "scam". Cancelling your order and getting your money back is not a "scam".

Even one person just got on this site and admitted never doing business with Promedia and yet still called them a "scam". Was that person "scammed"? Obviously not. Is this being fair and reasonable?

[reph]

Canyon Laurel asks: Is this forum only for bitching?

No, it's here to enable writers to exchange information about publishing companies, agents, and other entities that they deal with.

And it certainly isn't here to enable participants to bitch about, or at, other participants. Most threads are lots more polite than this one has become.

[Kuorisama]

I would love to hear from someone who has bought the software and actually had success with the company. It wouldn't make me change my mind and buy the software because that boat has sailed. They either aren't part of this board or don't want to speak up. Either way, that's them. If the situation with Musette turns out ok (which it is not resolved if she is still giving updates), then I'm happy for her and wish her luck in the new profession.

Now, you blast the people who have not bought the software and tried it out. Have you, CL? You contacted them and talked to them... yippee. Have you plunked down the $50 to see what the software and the class are all about so you can better argue your case instead of shooting down everyone else? It would be really easy for you - since you are working - to just drop the $50, look at the program, send it back, and get a refund. Hell, if you tell them it is to save their good name, Promedia might send you a free a copy and all you would have to pay is shipping.

These are the facts as I know them:
- There is a 30-day money back guarantee, but the "paper graders" (or whatever you want to call them) are backlogged so they might not get to your submission for 2mths thus throwing you way past the 30-day trial period... unless months got shorter when I wasn't looking.
- Said "paper graders" will reject your submission if you submit it too soon; but the people at Promedia do not specify what "too soon" is. They leave that up to the person taking the course. What happens if I'm some nut that got the software and didn't sleep for three days till I finished the courses and sent in my samples and I think it's time and they say it's too soon... what then?
- The package they send includes an offer for ANOTHER course that costs $129.
- Pretty much this whole thread that I'm betting most people haven't seen -> pub18.ezboard.com/fscript...=660.topic (http://pub18.ezboard.com/fscriptsecretsquestionsandadvice.showMessage?topic ID=660.topic)

Now, if these facts are false in any way, I would like someone who has actually used the software and worked with the company to correct them and not just bitch about this being a bitching thread. As I said previously, I'm just keeping an eye on the place to see how Musette fairs, so I hope she keeps us posted on the whole process and how it turns out. (Apologies Musette if you are not a "she", but with a name like Musette, I just assumed. Correct me if I'm wrong.) I invite anyone else who has gone through this program to share their experiences (good or bad) as well.

And, just so we are clear. I am no longer questioning Promedia's validity (mainly 'cause I don't care either way), I'm questioning their professionalism.


For the record: I said "spanish-speaking person" not Spanish person. For the person to be a Spanish person they would have to be from Spain. For all I know the person could be from Mexico, Cuba, or any of the other spanish speaking nations of the world. I make that distinction because I know many spanish-speaking individuals who absolutely HATE it when someone calls them spanish or - for that matter - hispanic.

Note: I don't know what I'm still doing posting in this thread as it was only my intention to observe after my business was concluded, but I have a tendency of playing devil's advocate. Keep that in mind when you reply to any of my posts and keep it civil.

[vstrauss]

Uh, folks...listen to Jim McD--

>> Is there any reason to believe that xples, Canyon Laurel, and the guy who owns Promedia are three different people?<<

Not a single one.

Don't feed the energy monster.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com/ (http://www.writerbeware.com/)

[canyon laurel]

All I'm suggesting is that nobody in this forum has convinced me that they were "scammed", yet, they keep calling it a "scam". As I mentioned, some people didn't even do business with Promedia and they call them a "scam". Now if someone did that to me and posted it publicly I would not be too happy about it and I don't think anyone else would either.

Having taken some non-traditional education courses I know it is often difficult for both parties involved because without a structured classroom setting the onus is on the student to create their own structure. So alot of decisions are left to the students. Maybe this is what the problem is. Maybe Promedia should somehow make it more structured. Or, as I already suggested, maybe they should not do it at all and just refer people to a college course somewhere.

I am going to take your suggestion and get the program and review it. I am going to buy it fully aware of the following:

1. I have 30 days to return it.
2. I am buying education not a job.
3. Only those without previous experience are referred to the training program [so I really don't need it] and this is clearly stated.
4. I have other options such as a college course.

[canyon laurel]

My last post was in response to Kuorisama.

BTW, I appreciate your clarification of the Spanish vs. Spanish-speaking issue. I did not mean to misquote you.

[canyon laurel]

NOTICE TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO TRY AND BE FAIR AND LOOK AT BOTH SIDES: YOU ARE A MONSTER AND YOU ARE NOT WELCOME BY SOME PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM.

[marky48]

Holy fertiltizer truck Batman! People here will argue anything. I don't know who this Canyon woman is but I live near Big Tujunga Canyon and worked in Hollywood for years, had an agent who went bankrupt, SAG member, two screenplays in the market, the whole deal, scams here are the norm. It takes research and never, ever answer an ad in a the paper! They're all scams by default.

There is no advertising for help in show business; no need of it. Most people come here thinking they can pull off the freeway and become stars. A few do; Brad Pitt comes to mind. That's why many come. I knew I had to get out when I found myself waiting for the next walk-on part on "Sabrina, the Teenage Witch," and others.

Most fail, go broke and don't leave that's why it's impossible to drive anywhere. College here is free for me and many others. I'm a student yes, but I'm 50. At community colleges a BOGW (board of governor's grant) covers all the fees, which are $11-17 a credit. At Cal State Northridge where I go and others the fees are covered by a state grant increased to cover the tuition this year. Federal programs found elsewhere are above that. I'm living on mine. And I own my home here, and have rent control on the site so it's cheap too. Most aren't that fortunate. Rents are high, but cheaper than NY and SF.

I've not searched the catalogs for script analysis courses but all the colleges have film programs with full script courses. You can major in it and those people get reader jobs. They're valid. This crap isn't. I say the CL woman is running the scam. That's why she's here, has failed and this is her new vocation. It's obvious. Thanks to James for database info. Facts are stubborn things.

[canyon laurel]

Nobody in California has to pay for college because they have grants.

All readers graduated from a full film school program.

If you use the newspaper you are a "scam".

Nobody in the entertainment industry advertises for jobs.

If you don't accept this as the "stubborn facts" you are a troll and a monster.

[marky48]

No, just desperate.

[Kuorisama]

As Gomez Addams would say (and all puns intended) "Good show, old man." I'll await your report and reports from others.

And, yes, Promedia needs to be a little more structured. Something like: We will not accept samples that are less than 2 weeks after receipt of the materials. Or something like that. They are a business, not a school. As a business, everything has to be laid out plain as day or someone is going to get peeved.

Just as a personal fact: I watch way too much People's Court and crap like this comes up ALL the time.

[optim100]

I don't know about others' experience but:

I went to college in California and it cost my parents and me quite a bit of money.

After college I started working in my field i.e. aerospace. A friend heard about a seminar workshop type of program in script reading. As I understand it the lady put this workshop on around different cities in the country. I'm a movie buff so I was intrigued and decided to go. Cost was around $75 if I remember. About 60 people were there. Took half a day. Plus I purchased some materials. The instructor who put it on also offered phone/e-mail consultation which I used for $100 per hour. I used 2 hours. So it cost about $300 give or take. Plus my time to learn how to do it via practicing.

Started to send out my resume and work to a few producers and some agents. Got some bites. Did some coverage work part time. Really enjoyed it. Went on for a couple of years and had a project at my "day job" dumped in my lap and so the script reading kinda went to the back burner. I miss it. Maybe I'll start it up again.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is I never went to a full film school program to learn it but I did need some instruction. I also know other readers still active in the industry who never went to a full film program. I mean I do know such programs exist and they are expensive. At least much more than I paid. I think UCLA has a course in their extension program.

Just wanted to share my experience.

[marky48]

That's just what they want to hear.

[KBeereal]

Hey Optim,

How do you still have that lady's contact info? Maybe she's still doing seminars.

~K~

[HapiSofi]

ProMedia's program is a variant on an old and well-known scam that has long afflicted the book publishing industry. It's known as "Make Money Reading Books," that having been its original come-on line.

The deal is that you send these guys your money, and they send you a book that tells you how you can make great money reading books for publishers, and how publishers are really hard up for people who can do this.

Hoo boy.

Some of the books they sell are elaborately written; others are bare lists of publishing houses anyone could get from their local library. Needless to say, none of them will get you work reading books. The guys who sell the how-to books are the only ones who make any money.

It's true that some publishers do use readers. There's no great shortage of them. The pay is lousy, the books are frequently nothing to write home about, and the people hired to do it have industry contacts and credibility.

No way are publishers going to hire strangers living halfway across the country to do reading for them. There are many reasons for this. One is that a reader's report isn't a book report. You have to know something about publishing to know what to say.

Another reason is that the publisher is responsible for returning the manuscript to the author. If a trusted freelancer picks up the ms. in person, and brings it back the same way, that's not a problem. But you can't entrust it to the mail, and to a stranger, without copying it first. That's anywhere from 100 to 1200 pages.

Anyway, it's a scam.

ProMedia's program is just a more elaborate and expensive version of "Make Money Reading Books". And the commenter a while back who knows the movie industry, and who said that it doesn't sound plausible -- that studios want a fast turnaround, and that they work with people they know -- sounds exactly like every publishing industry professional I've ever heard talk about this.

Laurel Canyon's just upset because she hasn't been in the habit of thinking of herself as a common thief.

[reph]

I know for sure that not all "Make Money Reading Books" ads are like that. I once answered an ad with exactly that headline.

In my request for the free info promised in the ad, I wrote that I'd worked for however many years as a proofreader and copy editor, so I already knew about those things, and was their offer about something different. In return, I received a piece of mail advertising a book for sale, which described jobs in publishing, such as proofreading and copy editing, and how to get started.

[HapiSofi]

Did you bite?

I'll admit that I used to be the person who engaged freelance proofreaders and copyeditors for a trade publishing house. I got a lot of letters from people who'd bought that more specialized book. My personal rule was that I could stop reading when I hit the third typo in their cover letter.

I felt bad for these people. They were sincere. They'd invested time and money in what they thought would be a respectable (if not exactly glamorous) line of work.

Sometimes they'd phone me rather than writing, and would inevitably launch into a pitch about their qualifications and experience. I'd wait until they paused to draw breath, then ask them to spell "accommodate". If they could spell that, I'd try them on "supersede" and "guerrilla". It saved us both a lot of time.

I don't have to tell you that proofreaders and copyeditors are born, not made. One writer has defined "copyeditor" as someone who thinks the observation that it's Deringer when capped, but derringer when lower-case, qualifies as a conversational pleasantry; and the definition of a group of copyeditors is a bunch of people who nod when he makes that observation, because all of them already know it. The born copyeditors take a little training, but no amount of training will do it for someone who didn't start out that way.

My impromptu oral spelling test over the phone wasn't meant to identify the hopeless sort who'd made three typos in the first paragraph of their cover letters. I was trying to chase off the ones who'd misspell "accommodate", then protest that they'd know to look it up if they ran into it in a manuscript. I'm sure they would. They might even do the same for "supersede" and "guerrilla". Their grammar would be good. They'd have gotten top grades on their high school English papers.

They could copyedit, but it wouldn't have come naturally to them. They'd have to take longer, and work harder, and the minute their energy and attention flagged, stuff would get past them. If they were the most conscientious freelancers in the world, they'd work themselves into a stupor for a low rate of return per hour. And if they weren't? Bad habits would creep in. There's nothing like having to work too long, too hard, at an inherently frustrating task you're not very good at, to foster a what-the-hell attitude.

Finally: Yes, I know it's "copy editor". I just got tired of "proofreader" being one word and "copy editor" being two.

[Kuorisama]

Sort of an off topic question to HapiSoft, since you sound like you know what you're talking about.

When I read a book that I bought off the shelves at B&N and there is a set of quotes missing, wrong pronoun use, or a word missing (God forbid misspelled), is that the fault of the writer, the proofer, or the printer?

Not trying to be flip or anything. Just want to know who to blame. :D

[HapiSofi]

Not the printer, though typesetting errors are still marked "PE" for "printer's error". That one goes back to the days when printers and typesetters were frequently the same operation. Now, they're at most two divisions of the same operation. Generally they're separate businesses, though.

The answer is that it could be the fault of any of those entities; and you're leaving out the production editor, the packager (if it's a packaged book), the copyeditor, and the second-pass corrections checker (the last of whom is called a slugger), any of whom could be the responsible party. It's very hard to accurately assign blame unless you're looking at the original manuscript, the one that went hand to hand through the production process, and which everyone has annotated in different colors so you can tell who did what.

I"ve seen a famous science writer turn in a manuscript so riddled with errors that it could have profited from being fact-checked by a teenager with a paperback almanac. I've seen an editor carefully change an author's correct use of the subjunctive to a simple conditional, and another editor meddle with an author's correct use of medieval Burgundian French. I've seen a copyeditor go through a thriller written by a former naval officer, taking place on the same class of ship on which that officer served, and highhandedly alter or query innumerable instances of correct usage and terminology. I've seen proofreaders on a literary criticism reprint series try to "correct" T. S. Eliot's usage and William Faulkner's grammar. I've seen a typesetter change every instance of "causal" to "casual" in a hard SF novel involving advanced theoretical physics. I can name you three well-known authors who refuse to have any changes made in their text, no matter how justifiable or beneficial they would be. And I know of one case where an author refused to let multiple instances of blatant mathematical errors be corrected in his novel, even though the editor, copyeditor, proofreader, production editor, slugger, managing editor in charge of the paperback edition, and the cold reader, all spotted them and queried them.

And then there's the time the typesetting firm simultaneously added new hardware, new software, new employees, and new procedures. This caused a novel that had been edited, copyedited, proofread, and slugged -- as clean as the production staff could make it -- to magically turn up with sections of pied type, wherein almost every word would have one letter that had been swapped out for the letter four places down in the ASCII sequence. This happened after the book had had its final check. It was exciting. It printed, bound, and shipped before anyone noticed.

A further variety of error comes in at the bindery, where people who used to monitor the production line have been replaced with scanners and other fancy sensors. The minute those things get out of adjustment, bad things happen. Signatures -- sixteen-page groups of folded printed sheets -- get bound out of order. One signature will be duplicated and another signature will be missing. For added fun, sometimes a signature from one book winds up in a different book. Inevitably, you get a signature from some racy piece of erotica bound into a popular YA series. Trouble ensues.

Then there's the stuff that happens when you reprint ...

There were days when I'd feel faintly surprised that any book ever got printed correctly.

[Kuorisama]

I do believe the proper term for all of that is... YIKES! Sounds like a job where most days you just don't want to get out of bed in the morning. It can't be all together that bad or else it wouldn't be a job anymore, I guess.

Another off topic question (I swear I'll stop eventually):
Is the writer allowed to veto changes that all those lovely people make or is that something that has to be hammered out in the contract? Not to be mean, but if I wrote something a certain way I want it staying that way or else how can I say that I wrote it?

[James D Macdonald]

I can answer that, Kuorisama --

The author writes the word "STET" in the margin in red pencil, and the change doesn't happen.

STET means "let it stand." The author has final veto power. (Some authors, so I'm told, have "STET" rubber stamps.)

Me, I'm grateful to all the editors, copyeditors, proofreaders and the rest. They help me look lots smarter than I really am.

[marky48]

In fact they do such a good job that in all of the books I read I can't recall finding one of these mistakes many cite. For a look into the process in the old days try "I wanted to Write," by Kenneth Roberts.

[reph]

HapiSofi asks: Did you bite?

No, I did not. The book being advertised purported to tell me how to get started doing what I'd been doing for years. The ad wasn't even well written.

[absolutewrite]

(Some authors, so I'm told, have "STET" rubber stamps.)

Ha! I sometimes argue developmental edits, but I think I've written STET in response to a copy edit once. Once! Maybe twice, if you count the fact that one of my copy editors took a joke I wrote seriously and tried to "correct" it and I just wrote, "This was a joke" in the margin. ;) My editor got a kick out of it and said that she's found that copy editors and proofreaders tend to be very intense and humorless folks.

Now, now, don't get started on me, all of you copy editors with great senses of humor. ;) I know you're there!

[James D Macdonald]

Q. How many proofreaders does it take to change a lightbulb?
A. Proofreaders can't change lightbulbs, they can only query them.

Q. How many copyeditors does it take to change a lightbulb?
A. The last time this question was asked it involved proofreaders.

[vstrauss]

>>The author writes the word "STET" in the margin in red pencil, and the change doesn't happen.<<

Sometimes. About half my STETs were ignored last time around. Fortunately nothing major, but irritating nonetheless.

>>One writer has defined "copyeditor" as someone who thinks the observation that it's Deringer when capped, but derringer when lower-case, qualifies as a conversational pleasantry; and the definition of a group of copyeditors is a bunch of people who nod when he makes that observation, because all of them already know it.<<

I would like to meet one of these. The CEs I've had for the past few books have done things like changing my capitalization conventions (things like "the king" vs. "the King") in the first half of the ms., then failing to do so in the second half, or changing every instance of "some time" (as in "Some time later") to "sometime". And then entirely missing the fact that for a whole chapter I used the wrong name for one minor character (granted, I didn't catch this either and neither did my editor. But this sort of thing is what you're supposed to be able to rely on a CE to do).

I have the greatest admiration for good copy editors, by the way--and I did have good CE's for my YA books.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com/ (http://www.writerbeware.com/)

[HapiSofi]

I'm not going to start on you. What copyeditors and proofreaders are is literal-minded, and they're that way for good reason.

When I'm editing, I'm myself. When I'm copyediting, I'm a lot less likely to catch jokes.

[reph]

"What copyeditors and proofreaders are is literal-minded, and they're that way for good reason."

And all librarians wear glasses, right? Please, leave us not stereotype any occupational group. Anyone working with a variety of book manuscripts needs a grasp of metaphor, for instance, and humor.

[HapiSofi]

Come on, Reph, I'm including myself in that pool. Copyeditors need to give the manuscript a reasonably literal-minded read because "literal" is where the text lives, and because someone has to do it It's late and I'm tired and no examples are coming to mind, but I know this to be true.

I can think of an imperfect example. I've seen a rather snippy review/essay about things the copyeditor should have caught in some of the more horrendous scenes in Bret Easton Ellis's American Psycho. For instance, there's the scene with the chainsaw, at the climax of which he cuts the woman's legs off and waves them at her. However, earlier in that scene he'd nailed her feet to the floor with a nail gun. Given that she's already wounded, in shock, and probably hypothermic and dehydrated by that time he fires up the chainsaw, and given that he then not only inflicts massive trauma on her, but cuts both her femoral arteries, she's going to be dead fast. When you add in the delay occasioned by her feet still being nailed to the floor, the action simply doesn't work.

Tsk, said the essay.

Have you noticed that you tend to get more errors, especially logic and continuity errors, in scenes containing a lot of explicit sex, violence, transcendent magical effects, or other comparably distracting events? What you need there is not some flat-affected oddball who doesn't really get metaphors or jokes (though I knew a guy like who was great with nonfiction), but you also don't want someone who's going to be so distracted by the content that he or she will fail to keep an eye on the form. And if it's a choice, there are other people who'll be reading it for humor and metaphors.

That's what I meant.

[reph]

Hapi, what you describe in Am. Psy. shows the work of a poor editor. Those absurdities should have been caught even earlier, at the developmental-editing stage, assuming there was one. To edit well, a person needs to pay attention to all levels at once. You have to catch the typos AND inspect the grammar AND notice that the woman should have been dead already, that her feet were nailed down, and all that. Isn't what we do marvelous?

I can't confirm from my experience your assertion that an editor is more likely to miss things when the content is highly distracting. I've worked mostly on academic nonfiction, which has no exciting parts.

[Kuorisama]

Any news? Any at all? Musette? C_L? Anybody?

*sniff sniff*

:b

[MUSETTE222]

Hi,All -

Sorry that I can't comment right now, but things are in a holding pattern. I'll update when there's new info I can share.

Meanwhile, I'd suggest that anyone here who hasn't already loggen on to the promediainc.net website do so (if it's working) and read the actual course description and claims that are there.

More later -
m222

Botanical note for the day: Laurel is a toxic substance.

[creativexec]

This is an interesting topic that I thought
I would jump in on.

Hope no one minds.

Is PROMEDIA's software anymore of a
scam than "script coverage" services
that charge 100 bucks with the promise
of sending your script all over town if
it gets a "recommend"?

Or is it more of a scam than the many
fringe screenwriting contests that
charge an entry fee and award one or
two scribes 100 dollars and some software
- while organizers rake in the bucks?

Is it anymore or less effective than
spending 500 bucks on McKee's class.
(For those of you who have spent
the bucks for McKee, did you sell a
script?)

Or how about shelling out bucks to
pitch ideas to execs at various screen-
writing conferences?

Or what about the tens of thousands
of dollars shoveled into film schools
every year? (Most of the grads will
end up becoming lawyers or teaching
high school English.)

PROMEDIA isn't any more or less of a
scam than any of the above.

It is ALWAYS "buyer beware." Someone
is NUTS if they believe that buying a
tutorial from some company - no one
has ever heard of - is going to give
them the upper hand in finding a story
analyst job in Hollywood.

There are already thousands of pro
readers working in the biz who are dying
for more work. There is simply no reason
for PROMEDIA to have some training/
hiring process. That workforce already
exists.

This being a FACT, PROMEDIA's motives
appear to be a bit disingenuous.

However, if one feels that the software
will help to improve their analysis skills -
good for them. Many aspirants spend
thousands of dollars on books called
"Writing the Selling Screenplay" or
"Writing Scripts Hollywood Will Love."

The guarantees are almost implicit
in the titles. Do we really believe the
titular hype?

Truth be told, no one really needs to
take a training course in script reading.
Just read a lot of scripts and read
sample coverages on the internet.
Then simply start writing coverages
for yourself. Put together a portfolio
(featuring a script with a "PASS", a
script with a "RECOMMEND", and a
script with a "CONSIDER.") Then
cold call or query agencies and prodcos.

It is a very competitive job market (like
trying to get someone to read your script)
and the pay - for those outside of the
union (which is most) starts at around
fifty bucks a screenplay. And maxes
out around $75. (Books are paid more
and "rushes", scripts that have to be
read overnight, are also paid more.)

Good luck to all. :D

[marky48]

Right. There is no need for Acme script reades out here. This (LA) is the big time. Everything and everbody is already here in droves; professionals in every field of show business.

[MUSETTE222]

Well, Kids, it's now been 64 days since I submitted my samples to Promedia, and I never heard back from them. I DID receive a letter on 10/31 from their attorney, demanding a retraction to my first post. I was eventually able to reach him by phone. but was never contacted directly by anyone from the company, though he said he'd relay my request. So if you want to consider this a retraction, you may do so. Here's a brief recap.

When I received my credit card statement in late October, it turned out the Promedia DID credit back my account with a full refund on 10/10. I didn't realize this had been done, since they'd told me on my voice mail message that day that my submission was still in the queue. They also never gave me instructions on returning the materials, so I assumed that they'd kept the money. Before I could contact them to clarify, I received the attorney's letter. When I spoke with him, he confirmed that they still had my submissions, and were going to review them, even though they had returned my fee.So I decided to wait out the 60 days maximum they stated it would take to process my submissions, and see what happened next. What's happened is nothing; nothing from the readers, the managers, or their attorney. So the whole thing, from my standpoint, has been a colossal waste of time.

Was I scammed? In the strictest sense, no, since I did get my money back. Was I misled? Definitely. 3 months ago, in mid-August, I ordered a course that prominently featured a 30-day money back guarantee. I'm still waiting for Promedia to respond, well after the 45-60 days they cited for evaluation.

In her last post to this thread, the ever-caustic Canyon Laurel asked why I kept wanting to work with a company I thought so little of. Fair question, style aside. The answer is that I do realize that it's a very overcrowded field, and difficult to break into. I was willing to go through with the process and try and work with this company if it offered the slightest chance to get a toehold in this business. And the hell of it is, I think it's something I'd really like and be good at. I have no professional qualifications, but bring a lifelong love of reading and movies, an undergraduate degree in English, an analytical turn of mind, and what I consider a fair mastery of the English language. You can read my posts and judge for yourself. I think I could do at least as good a job as some already working in the field - just look at some of the pure dreck that gets greenlighted! ;-b

So, I guess that's the ball game. If I ever hear anything, I'll update, but it's looking pretty doubtful. Happy holidays, everyone- don't take any wooden classifieds!

M222

[marky48]

Drive west; rent a place and knock on doors with your qualifications in hand. There are no guarantees or shortcuts.

[Kuorisama]

Sounds... interesting, Mus. I'm so glad you are keeping us all posted on this. I wonder what happened to C_L. (S)he should have gotten the materials by now and be able to give us a summation of what's in the box and his/her (no clue, not going to guess) opinion on it.

I agree with Marky though, no shortcuts. Shortcuts usually lead to dead ends.

[creativexec]

If you do not live in Los Angeles or New York
(or in the area of prodcos and studios), the
chances of landing a job as a story analyst
are slim to none.

Why should I hire someone who lives in
Alabama (let's say) when there are thirty
thousand good readers here in LA who want
reader jobs? I need someone who can
come to the office, pick up the script,
and have it back in my hands by the end
of the day, if necessary. There are too
many complicated variables for a reader
who lives outside of town.

If one lives in Los Angeles, he certainly
doesn't need to take a coorespondence
course in script reading.

[Kuorisama]

I guess C_L isn't going to show up again. I was really looking forward to a report.

[KTerrega]

My husband bought the ProMedia software and is ready for the next step. We'd like to talk to "xples," who was posting last October, about his/her experiences with them and with script reading in general.

Do any of you have contact info?

Thx,

Katy

[James D Macdonald]

My guess is that "xples" and the guy who owns ProMedia are the same individual.

Let us know if your husband actually reads a script and gets paid for it, okay?

[James D. Macdonald]

It's been over a year now. No word on whether the husband (or anyone else) got an actual job reading scripts. Promedia Entertainment still has their website up: http://promediainc.net/

We're asked to believe that there is such a screaming shortage of script readers in Hollywood that folks all over America who watched a videotaped training program are in demand.

Somehow ... I kinda doubt it.

[SFH]

I was curious about the path to becoming a script reader, not so much for the pay, but because I thought it might help me become a better writer/director. I was pretty much operating under the assumption that it doesn't pay much. Anyways, some of my research brought me here.



This thread defiantly brought together a very interesting cross-section of people. Obviously there are some real industry pros who spotted this pro media venture for what it is, a SCAM to take advantage of desperate people. Some of those people were even on here looking for help after a failed investment. I still shake my head about that whole scenario. The entertainment business is something you go into out of passion and love. Acting, writing, script reading, all of this stuff is based on a combination of networking, luck, and talent. If you want to get rich quick with minimal work, I can't think of much worse profession.



But I have to say, my favorite were the people defending this company. I sincerely hope they work for/own pro media. Any other explanation for their rhetoric would be absolutely unacceptable. The materials were advertised as a path to work for a specific company. Dirty tactic that unfortunately worked a little too well as shown by all of the people posting here. No one bought the package to "learn more about script reading." They bought it with the promise of reading scripts for Pro Media. That's not cool. As for Libel, that may be the most outlandish claim of all. I'm a bit of an expert here. A libel suit from a company that is less than reputable against anonymous posters on a message board that were simply discussing the legitimacy of said company. I don't thing that's worth anyone's time. Pretty much everything said her falls under amendment numero uno. There are pretty specific qualifications to proving a lible claim. The actions on this board don't qualify.



Anyways, this is a dead topic, but it was new to me, and I wanted to post my 2 cents.



Lesson learned, if it seems too good to be true. It probably is.

[Toni1953]

I've been dabbling in turning some of my novels into screenplays, and I found ths thread very interesting and informative as well.


It's amazing how many scam artists there are out there preying on the hopes and dreams of people wanting to get a break in the writing/entertainment industry. You have to be so careful, do your research, and even then, it's a crapshoot that involves about 60% talent, 40% lucky break.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....you know what i mean.

[cmpisces]

I ordered the video and reference material for script reading in the past. I created my sample coverage, but realized that there was no address to send the material to. No phone number was included that I saw. I emailed them several times, but got back mailer.damon notices. Does anyone know how I can get in contact with Promedia, or have I been had?

[JerseyGirl1962]

Does anyone know how I can get in contact with Promedia, or have I been had?

Unfortunately, you've been had.

~Nancy

[CaoPaux]

Fortunately, they're gone now. :hat: