10 years....

Blue, I sympathize, entirely. The antag is not just a bad person--they should have some little speck of redeeming quality, somewhere. The antag really slowed up my production a week ago, and it took me a full week to try and come up with some type that filled the bill. Do some sloppy, fun writing about this character, then let it rest, and go back and refine. Don't be so hard on yourself. I often sit at the keyboard and say to myself, "How dare I." Self-doubt is a killer in this craft.

Triceratops

I'm dealing with a similar problem, right now. I've had an urban fantasy kicking around in my head for over a year, and while I have a very well-developed protagonist, the villain is giving me fits.

I know what his personality is like; he's a Mafia-Don paterfamilias type who is very protective of his immediate family and the people who work for him. Enjoying his protection and generosity, however, means accepting a heavy burden of obligation. There is no question about who is in charge, and anyone who does question it gets reminded of their proper place in unambiguous terms. He's extremely charismatic, and people often feel drawn to him because he's so confident--only to discover later that they've pretty much sold their souls in the process.

He's not completely evil; he actually likes taking care of "his people." If he approves of you, he's incredibly generous and makes you feel like part of his family; you can count on him to see you through anything, if you're loyal. If he gives you his word, he will not break it. But he has an enormous need to control the world around him and force it into his ideal shape, and can be horrifyingly ruthless in doing so. Nobody defies him, or packs up and leaves, without ending up as an example for everyone else.

Oh, and he's also a wizard, from a very old magical family, and most of his followers and opponents are also witches and wizards, to one degree or another.

The trouble is, I don't know what exactly he is pursuing beyond abstract power. The usual goals of villains, such as Global Domination are just ridiculous, and don't work. "What the hell does he want? What is the goal that drives him to do the things he does?" are questions that have me tearing my hair out. I'm really no clearer on that now than I was last January, when I first "met" this character. I don't know if he's working independently, or as part of a network of similar "families" (although I think it may be the latter).

So I'm working with the protagonist and the supporting cast right now, trying to tease out their stories. The protagonist's story is very complex, and there are a lot of both major and minor characters. I may have to break this book into a series. But if there is ever going to be a book in the first place, I have to figure out my villain. Here's hoping it doesn't take 10 years...

I have sorta the same problem. Thing is, my antagonist is supposed to be pure evil, but I don't want him to be a cartoon character. I trying hard to find things to make him seem "human". He's charming, attractive, and successful in his career, but he does absolutely nothing without an agenda. He's not exactly "human" either (looks it, but there is nothing human left to him, except the shell). Problem is, I don't want the reader to know this right away. I want to build slowly to the realization that this person is evil, and must be killed.

Bleh. :faint:

bluejester12 said:

Julian, I think just wanting power can never get old for a motive. It certainly isnt in real life. Just what makes him so different. Sounds like you're asking the right questions to yourself

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The trouble is, I need to fit his desire for control over his world into some sort of framework--what exactly are the stakes? Who are his enemies, and why? If it was a standard-issue criminal organization, he could be a drug lord, or involved in some other illegal trade. But since he's a wizard, and lives somewhat at a remove from normal humans, it's not that simple.

My protagonist is a distant relative of the villain; he has some unusual magical abilities, and the villain used these as a means to destroy his enemies. The protagonist has lived with the guilt and fear for too long, and finally decides to leave, even if it means getting killed for it. He agrees to help another group of wizards and witches who are working in opposition to the villain. He has nothing left to lose by doing so.

So there's something at stake beyond simply power. Right now, I'm puzzling out the protagonist's backstory, his relationships with various people, and how some of these people help him save himself. It's classic redemption stuff, I tellya! Maybe by the time I get the rest of this book's reality figured out, the villain's part in everything will finally click into place. I hope so, anyway.

[laughs] It's a good thing I have two other books in the works, and another that seems to be just over my mental horizon. If this was the only project I had in mind, I'd be in utter despair. As it is, I'm only slightly annoyed, at odd moments...

bluejester12 said:

Ive been letting my novel dwell for ten years while I worked on short stories and I still cant think of an antagonist, not one Im happy with.

Man, I hope I eventually get it.

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I absolutely can identify with your frustration!

My antagonist in my screenplay (that has been dwelling in my head and notes for 9 years) is someone we think is the protagonist until the end. She gets hers, but it is hard to hide it well and keep it transparent and believable enough that someone would buy the concept once the truth has been revealed. Think, Usual Suspects when you find out who Kaiser is...or Sixth Sense when you know all the dead people.
I often think I'll never be happy with my storyline, so it sits. Still.

Good luck, and remember, you're not alone by a long shot.

Hope nobody minds me dredging up a somewhat old thread, but I just wanted to point out that not all stories have antagonists. Sometimes it helps to think that form his point of view, the antagonist is a hero, doing what he's doing for good reasons of his own. Sometimes the antagonist is inside the hero, like in _Crime and Punsihment_ Raskolnikov is the protagonist in his role as the murderer, but the antagonist in his role of wanting to confess to the murder. Sometimes the antagonist is a force of nature like a storm or AIDS. In my own book the antagonist is social preconceptions - a different preconception exists inside each of the 4 main characters and they have to help each other defeat these preconceptions.

Hope that was more helpful than confusing.

Ask yourself what your antagonist's objectives are. Then decide just what corners that individual is willing to cut or rules to break in order to achieve those goals. When you have those things figured out, you have your villain.

Dave--you hit so smack on the head with that. The antag is normal by all appearances, except for the corners they are willing to cut. My antag is a 6ft five inch female terminator type cop from the future, and she chases the protag for some 3,000 miles--with every law she breaks trying to get him, she digs her own hole deeper--she literary goes insane with frustration trying to stop her nemisis, who happens to outsmart her at every bend, thus driving her to acts against humanity. Ultimately, her own agency (the FCC) has to put her to death to save face from all the havoc she has caused. Her motivation was pride that turned to hatred, simply because she was humiliated by a common Citizen Patriot.


Tri