Repetition - when is it useful, and when does it get in the way?

Good question I reckon we should distinguished two ways of reprtitions
one with words I reckon we had the threat about it before
second when you repeat the facts - this one is more complicated and difficult to analyse . I would say people can write books about it

The thing is, at the same time you probably want the reader to remember the leaves, but you might also not want it to be too obvious that the maple leaves are a clue... but in the case of your excerpt, perhaps the best way would be to post a part here and see if people notice how it stands out. Because, of course you notice, because you know the leaves are important, but a reader might not pay attention.

Something only needs to be mentioned once, if you wish the reader to realise later it was a clue. It's the way you mention it, not how many times you mention it. Readers are not dumb and don't need stuff thrust down their throats.

I would say that repitition is used to illustrate a point or a theme you want the reader to pick up on. A "payoff" of sorts.

If you are focused on repeating the "maple tree" theme in your book, then make sure you have a good reason for doing so.

Repetition can be quite useful or, even if it's not, it can be mostly harmless.

I find repetition works best for poetic passages. Certain phrases or words repeated throughout the text can add a nice touch.

However, repeating the same phrases and words close together will make readers think you have a tic. If the information is unimportant, they might think you're an idiot. Also, repetition screams PLOT POINT, so you can use that for good or for evil.

It's okay to repeat the same ideas as long as they're not too close together (I once heard a rule that stated the repeated ideas should be at least five pages apart).

Usually, when you leave your work alone for a few days, then come back to read it aloud, you can find where the repetition works and where it sounds like you got lazy and needed filler for your wordcount goal.

As for your "clutch phrases", they can work very well when they're used to illuminate character. For example, I once wrote a first-person epic science fiction. At the time, my mother was friends with an editor and he offered to read the first twenty-five pages. He noticed and enjoyed several of my clutch phrases, such as "sunlight slanted jade through the trees" because they served to highlight my characters.

I think if you're using those clutch phrases as crutch phrases to bridge gaps in your thinking, you'll end up getting rid of most of them. Crutch phrases are often used to support a theme or an idea. In the right hands, it works, but it's not worth the risk of trying it only to find out your work is peppered with CPs that don't work.

Since the maple trees are important to your story, I think mentioning them at the beginning of your story and occasionally throughout will get your point across. After awhile, the reader will just assume that you're talking about the maple trees because, well, you've already mentioned them. Several times. If you provide the reader with good detail throughout, you don't have to repeat yourself.

Purposeful, thematic repetition can work. The kind of repetition that irritates me is when the writer has a few pet words or phrases that he keeps using, sometime more than once on the same page. For example, "It beat the hell of me how Casey could have done that." Turn the page to find: "You'd think I could tell a maple leaf from an oak leaf, but honestly, it beat the hell out of me." Couple pages later: "Casey! Why didn't Joe rake the maple leaves?" "Beats the hell out of me."

The only way to know if you've overdone the repetitions is to have someone else read the story. It would be best if the reader wasn't forewarned about the maples; otherwise, he's apt to be searching for them, prepped for annoyance.

Exir said:

For example, in my current story, one very important clue is a maple leaf. I made some references to it by describing maple in multiple places:
Now, when I read what I wrote, this repeated mention of maple leaves stands out, so I assume that if a reader reads it he will be distracted and think "what's with all the maple? Aren't there any other kinds of trees there?" But I feel that the repeated mention of maple is essential to my story. How do I repeat things without sounding like a broken CD?

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In your case, because you want maple leaf to be a clue, I think repetition isn't a good thing. Planting clues should be subtle and woven seamlessly into your story, almost unseen. You want the reader to be surprised not think well, duh, I figured that out a long time ago.
Linnea

I personally love to weave hints or repetitions into my stories.

I would try to find another clever way of using maple leaves in your story other than repetition. An example would be: your main characters favorite tree is maple because his dad built him a tree fort there when he was a boy. Or this one: Subtly have a nurse mention the medicinal value of a maple leaf.

Anyway, something like that. If you did the above suggestion in some way, you would probably have to eliminate a few of your other clues so that it's not so obvious.

Just my thoughts

One thing that is nice is when, after having read the book the first time, the reader reads it again and this time he notices all the clues he missed, including the maple leaves. A good mystery is when the reader, after his second reading, says : "how could I miss all these clues ? They are so obvious !" - of course they're obvious, now that he knows how it ends.

The maple leaf repetition is not the same as using a "clutch phrase" -- that would be something used unconsciously, or nearly so, that doesn't contribute anything substantial.

Don't know if this is helpful, but...When I read "Jurassic Park," I noticed that what'shisname mentioned the similarity between dinosaurs and birds so gash-darned many times that I actually said, out loud, to no one in particular, "There had better be something about a damned bird at the end of all this." There wasn't. I was annoyed.

Why should there be repetition at all?

Why not use words and phrases that create an image of varying shades of 'redness' to the reader. Use your imagination. Have you never seen autumn colours?

You don't have to go on and on repeating the word 'red' -that's plain lazy. And, yes -it will be noticed as you anticipate.

There's no such thing as good repetition. It's either deliberate or it's not, and if it's deliberate it will be controlled and for a specific purpose and not be over the top.

Why are you so concerned about what you call clutch phrases? Be original.

And for whose benefit are you describing the multiple aspects of the redness of the lake? If you tell me the lake is red due to reflections of light from the maple leaves I can accept that without you going on and on about it. Does the lengthy decription drive the story forward?

Exir said:

Just to be clear - in the story, the particular maple leaf that is important is mentioned only once. What is repeated throughout the book is the concept of "maple", but not that particular leaf itself.

I'm still confused about the difference between "good repetition" and "clutch phase". For example, in one of the scenes, a descriptive passage of a lake, I wanted to describe the redness of the scene in multiple aspects, so there will be a lot of repetition of the word "red". Will such repetition be picked out by the reader ("not another 'red!'")?

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Exir said:

Now, when I read what I wrote, this repeated mention of maple leaves stands out, so I assume that if a reader reads it he will be distracted and think "what's with all the maple? Aren't there any other kinds of trees there?" But I feel that the repeated mention of maple is essential to my story. How do I repeat things without sounding like a broken CD?

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I would probably think that, too. Why only maples? Is there any significance? Is this a running theme? Can there be dogwood, elm, cherry, oak?

And can't it just be "trees" and "leaves" -- why maple?

If maple is important, then you need to somehow let the readers know why maple is important. Perhaps something happened in the past when the characters were surrounded by maples? Maybe maple has a sentimental value for the character?


In my WIP, the river and the jungle are an integral part of the story. They have significance. But I don't constantly mention the river or the jungle unless they're relevant. I don't write "sunlight sifted through the jungle" every chance I have. In fact, if the description has no significance, I'd skip it. I don't have to remind my readers that there's a river nearby. They know already.

Repetition, especially thematic repetition, can be very effective if you work them into the plot. Give it weight. Make it relevant. Weave it into the plot. If maple is important, then don't just mention the leaves (and when you mention the leaves, they have to be relevant to the story). Again, weave your themes into the story without calling attention to it.

I 've had a couple of well-regarded agent tell me, "Repetition is a killer" (as in it will kill your chances of getting your MS accepted). In terms of placing clues, Uncle Jim once wrote to the effect that the clue should be put in a relatively passive sentence, increasing the chances the reader will overlook it.

Maybe the maple leaves represent something. Maybe you don't even know what it is yet.