Ever Live in a Commune?

Elaine Margarett · Mar 27, 2008

My MC is the daughter of a flower child and grew up in a series of communes before being emanicipated at 16. She's got some issues and quirky behaviors I'd like to attribute in part to her upbringing.

Anyone live in a commune(s)? Have any funny/weird stories you'd like to share? Any articles/bios/books you could point me to?

TIA,
Elaine

HeronW · Mar 27, 2008

google: commune living
might help :}

bunnygirl · Mar 27, 2008

My husband lived on an ashram in NM for a couple years. The kids went to school in town and the teenagers went to the public schools but were given a hard time for being "those weirdos" from the ashram.

He says everyone got up early for morning chanting followed by chores. After school he often helped out in the ashram-owned vegetarian restaurant in town. He also rode a horse, herded cows, milked the cows and made cheese. A guitarist from a famous band of the 60s visited regularly and gave my husband guitar lessons during down time at the summer solstice celebrations one year.

A lasting legacy of my husband's experience is that he still can herd cows quite casually, like it's no big deal. We were on a bike ride in the country one morning and he was ahead of me. I crested the hill and saw that some cows had escaped their pasture and were wandering in the road. And there was my silly spouse, herding them back to their field from his bicycle! An odd-looking cowboy, to be sure.

Let me know if you want more ashram-specific info.

dirtsider · Mar 28, 2008

Bunnygirl, I'd like to get some more info on the ashram, if you don't mind sharing. I'll probably use it for another story I have fermenting in the back of my mind, if not in my current WIP.

Thanks!!

Appalachian Writer · Mar 28, 2008

I've never lived in a commune, but when I was a teenager, we'd often go and spy into one. Edgar Casey (sp?) followers, the commune was sponsored by the A.R.E.

Kunery · Mar 28, 2008

I lived at Twin Oaks (in Virginia: they're all over the web, and delighted to have you join up, especially if you bring money) for six and a half years from late '70's to mid '80's.

Perhaps pertinent to your story line was the relationship between the sexes, which as a male I found interesting. Superficially, there was a prurient "Oooo! Naked hippie chicks!" aspect to the commune. All bathrooms were used by both sexes (simultaneously was the norm, partly because there were so few bathrooms); nudity was idiologically groovy except in the most public areas where there might be UPS drivers or other outsiders; monogamous sexual pairings were afforded a somewhat pained tolerance, but considered sadly "bourgeois" by the groovier members for whom the casual, no-strings fuck was a matter of great idiological pride -- the personal being political, doncha know. And so forth across a variety of sexual behaviors that would appear to an outsider as pretty steriotypical "free love hippie commune" behaviior.

As an insider, I found the reality was considerably more complex and really rather fascinating. For starters, there really wasn't all that much actual sex. Many, parhaps most, of the (extremely "liberated"!)females were either actual lesbians or -- for idiological reasons -- "political lesbians." How many actually had sex with each other is debatable, but for many it was clear that being "in favor" of lesbiansim was much more important than actually going at it physically with a sister.

Among those of us inclined toward the hetero persuasion, I discovered, sometimes the passionate, burning desires were a bit dampened by the mundane realities of commune life. These included: bodily stench (revolutionary hygiene did not stress bathing; deoderants were taboo) infectious diseases including scabies, head lice, crabs, herpes, and every known variety of clap; and (I found this especially interesting) poverty.

Poverty meant entertaining one's beloved in one's un-airconditioned 10'X10" room separated from others on both sides only by a plywood sheet; it meant having an "allowance" of $1.00 per week to spend on a lovely box of chocolates or bottle of wine or bunch of roses for one's beloved; it meant having no car or other personal transport. And, most of all, it meant choosing one's potential "beloved" from among women willing to live in such conditions. That narrows your scope a bit.

Wild 'n' Crazy Hippie Sex? Mainly, I'm afraid, in your dreams.

Hope this offers some reality-based help for your story.

bunnygirl · Mar 28, 2008

Dirtsider, feel free to email me directly: uhamp "at" yahoo "dot" com.

Let me know what kind of info you're looking for and I'll either forward your email to my husband or ask chat with him about it, depending on how our schedules synch up this weekend.

Elaine Margarett · Mar 29, 2008

Bunny, what is an ashram?

Kunery, were you an adult when you joined the commune? How many people lived there? How were jobs/chores assigned? How did the commune earn income? And where was the commune located? Someone owned the property, right?

TIA,
Elaine

Shwebb · Mar 29, 2008

Yep, former commune liver, here.

They were all very strict Christian farms, varying in size from about 30 up to 125 people. I lived in ones in Ohio, Georgia, Washington, and northern British Columbia. They also ranged from being between 5 miles to up to two hours from town, some of them were wilderness farms with no running water, electricity, or anything else considered modern.

If you're interested in the group or in specific traditions/jargon we had, let me know. I don't mind sharing more about it; but PM or in here is just fine.

Oh--I was aged 14 through 18 for my time on them.

Shwebb · Mar 29, 2008

Oh, yeah. If you're interested in a movie regarding a woman visiting her brother on a commune, check out "Brother Born Again." You can rent it on Netflix; it's also one of their instant viewing choices.

Kunery · Mar 29, 2008

E. M.: I joined in my early 30's. There were about 40 adults & 10 children then. The group's website covers your other questions -- but keeping in mind this caveat: their publicity, naturally, gives the "official" line about jobs, income, ownership and so forth.

In practice, the reality was that almost no rule (in the above areas or any other) was hard-and-fast. Members could (and often did) get away with whatever they could get away with -- bending, breaking, or simply ignoring rules they didn't choose to obey. The main demand the commune made was that this be done as discretely as possible. It was a lot like economic rulebreaking in the USSR or sexual rulebreaking in Victorian England: "do whatever you please, just don't do it in the street and frighten the horses."

Consequently, most of the communards I lived with had various little dodges, scams, and hustles to game the system and make their lives more tolerable. As long as they were discrete about it (and savvy enough to mouth politically correct slogans and buzzwords) nobody much cared. This behavior extended across the sexual, economic and other areas. It was interesting because it led to a remarkably deep cynicism pervading a superficially "idealistic" and "revolutionary" society.

My time there taught me more about daily life in, say, the Soviet system than any amount of academic study ever would have. This is especially true regarding the use of poverty to keep the populace in line. Orwell's 1984, with its repeated references to the ever-present smell of cabbage soup pervading the workers' shoddy, overcrowded apartments was infinately more real to me after commune life. It's interesting that Orwell and others have often emphasized the surprisingly-closely-related subjects of poverty mentality and sexual behavior in works about communism.

Elaine Margarett · Mar 30, 2008

Shwebb said:
Oh, yeah. If you're interested in a movie regarding a woman visiting her brother on a commune, check out "Brother Born Again." You can rent it on Netflix; it's also one of their instant viewing choices.

Thanks! I'm getting ready to send a movie back today to netflix. I'll put it on my queue.

Elaine Margarett · Mar 30, 2008

Kunery said:
E. M.: I joined in my early 30's. There were about 40 adults & 10 children then. The group's website covers your other questions -- but keeping in mind this caveat: their publicity, naturally, gives the "official" line about jobs, income, ownership and so forth.

In practice, the reality was that almost no rule (in the above areas or any other) was hard-and-fast. Members could (and often did) get away with whatever they could get away with -- bending, breaking, or simply ignoring rules they didn't choose to obey. The main demand the commune made was that this be done as discretely as possible. It was a lot like economic rulebreaking in the USSR or sexual rulebreaking in Victorian England: "do whatever you please, just don't do it in the street and frighten the horses."

Consequently, most of the communards I lived with had various little dodges, scams, and hustles to game the system and make their lives more tolerable. As long as they were discrete about it (and savvy enough to mouth politically correct slogans and buzzwords) nobody much cared. This behavior extended across the sexual, economic and other areas. It was interesting because it led to a remarkably deep cynicism pervading a superficially "idealistic" and "revolutionary" society.

My time there taught me more about daily life in, say, the Soviet system than any amount of academic study ever would have. This is especially true regarding the use of poverty to keep the populace in line. Orwell's 1984, with its repeated references to the ever-present smell of cabbage soup pervading the workers' shoddy, overcrowded apartments was infinately more real to me after commune life. It's interesting that Orwell and others have often emphasized the surprisingly-closely-related subjects of poverty mentality and sexual behavior in works about communism.

Interesting! As I was reading your post Orwell came to mind even before you memtioned him. My character is cynical and has issues with relationships so I'm glad to see there was often trouble in paradise.

Thanks!
Elaine

aruna · Mar 30, 2008

I was travelling around South America in 1972-73 and lived in a variety of temporary communes al the way from Manaus, Brazil through the Peruvian Amazon right up to Ecuador and Colombia. The nest and most long lasting was in Ecuador. I've got to go now but I'll come back later. Most of the male members were Americans trying to get out of Vietnam.

LIVIN · Mar 30, 2008

21st Century Perspective

In the 21st century, most communities don't like being called communes, in my estimation, which is at least partly due to the automatic assimilation with something like the Jonestown Massacre. More appropriate titles would be intentional community or ecovillage. That being said, there are over 1,000 in the U.S. and at least hundreds in other parts of the world, so, as you can imagine, there is a lot of diversity.

http://directory.ic.org is a directory of intentional communities.

Anyway, some are income sharing, some are not. In some, all people follow the same beliefs, while in others there is vast array of beliefs. Food choices can run the gammut also, ranging from vegan to vegetarian, to omnivorous, to raw food, raw meat (yes, raw beef)... and then there's the lovely urine therapy.

Some make decisions by consensus (everyone must agree), while some have leaders or democracies. They range in size from single digits to a thousand, although those are rare, and, some suggest, things get out of hand beyond a few hundred.

Each one is like it's own little world, which is quite fascinating. I plan on visiting more in the near future and I'll always cherish the first time I ever lived at an intentional community.

One person mentioned outsiders at school shuning the kids from the community. Well, the one I lived at, there was a very fascinating dynamic among the children, which was, essentially, a stark contrast to the above, in which pure-breds (people born there) were esteemed, kind of idolized by the other kids, although I think it was more of wanting to be as much a part of things as their pure-bred brethren. Very interesting.

Anyway, what you have to remember is that most contain a hundred or fewer people. Therefore, scale is something to think about in just about every regard. You mention trouble in paradise with regards to relationships, well, think about it... with the sheer number of people everyone pretty much knows each other's business for the most part. One bad relationship can have ripple effects throughout the community. And I've seen the devastating consequences, which can last for up to a decade even.

Where I lived, there were wealthy people, poor people and everything in between. Living styles ranged from having a bedroom only separated by a piece of plywood to someone having their own yurt or hut to people with fancier houses.

My suggestion would be to go visit one. Although what you can glean in a weekend pales in comparison to living there, it is still useful and a good experience, in my estimation.

Of course, my juiciest information is saved for my last writing project and my current one, but I actually just posted structural pictures here.

Elaine Margarett · Mar 30, 2008

LIVIN said:
In the 21st century, most communities don't like being called communes, in my estimation, which is at least partly due to the automatic assimilation with something like the Jonestown Massacre. More appropriate titles would be intentional community or ecovillage. That being said, there are over 1,000 in the U.S. and at least hundreds in other parts of the world, so, as you can imagine, there is a lot of diversity.

]

Sorry, no offense intended! My character was born in the late seventies and lived in a series of intentional communities. <g> This has shaped her character although I'm still working out in exactly what way. She lives alone in the woods because she guards her privacy, but she's lonely and misses living with people. She has a freedom about her when it comes to her sexuality, but has trust issues when it comes to forming relationships. She feels like she's missed out on the typical American childhood (at least how she's view it from the outside) but she's not sure if she can (or wants to) fit in the mainstream.

I'm hoping she'll become a serial character and I'll have lots of opportunity to have her figure it out.

Thanks for the info! I'll check out your links.

EM

mscelina · Mar 30, 2008

You might want to google "The Farm" in Summerville, Tennessee. As far as I can remember (and I was never a member) it's been there since the sixties and is still ongoing. I know they got busted in the eighties for growing pot )nothing major--only like thirty acres or so) but I was talking to a man at the bar this week who was a former member and he said it was still alive and thriving. Just a suggestion--I don't know anything else. Good luck!

Shwebb · Mar 30, 2008

That's one very good issue with communal life (BTW, we didn't refer to our own communes as such, we called them farms or communities. But that's neither here nor there, with me). I tend to use the word "commune" because it gives the most basic understanding of the sort of places they were.

You bring up an interesting issue--because of the belief system on the farms I was on, such as an effort to shun the world and the world's things--I now have a bit of what seems to be cultural amnesia.

From 1980 through 1986, I don't know a lot about popular culture and indeed, some of the history of that period.

I had a lot of good experiences regarding the farm life. I was on my own at fifteen on one of them, and that turned out for the best.

Here's a wiki on the group I was involved with; I don't know if I will help you.

aruna · Mar 30, 2008

We called them communes; that's a very distinct beast as opposed, for instance, to an ashram. Someone asked what an ashram is; it's a spiritual community in India, traditionally based in Hinduism. Traditionally they have nothing to do with New Ageism or New Age customs; they are usually pretty disciplined, men and women live separately, no drugs or alcohol. Usually they are sustained by donations from its members. I've lived in an ashram and there was a basic framework of Vedic chanting, Hindu ceremonies etc but there was no compulsion to attend anything at all. Members just wanted to meditate as much as possible; meals were communal.

A commune was very New Age. Men had shoulderlength hair or longer,women worelong flowing skirts and,yes, had flowers in their hair. Nobody had any money and somehow we lived. If we had money it went on buying Colombian marijuana,which was cheap. The Ecuadorian commune I lived in was near enough to the Colombian border that you could hitch hike to the border, cross it into Ipiales,buy dope, and get back home by nightfall, and they you;d walk in singing "...and we're bringing you some pigfat just to pass the night away" and everyone would get up and smoke a joint. Pigfat was code for grass.

generally we were against modern civilisation, capitalism, Nixon, The War, and money. We were for the Nobel Savage (Indios), organic food, handmade clothes embroidered by Indios, living off the land. This was when we finally settled on an abandoned farm n the north of Ecuador, gloriously situated in the Andes. We had a donkey, a pig, some hens, a dog, several rats. No running water or electricity. We cooked corn cobs over an open fire. People came and went all the time, but we were the core. Nl furniture, we slept in sleeping bags. Sex wasn't a big thing, grass was more important. At night two of the guys played the guitar and sung and those nights were fantastic, lit only by the fire's glow.

Later I lived on a small commune in the jungle of Guyana, quite near the Jonestown site but before that happened. That was a functioning farm. My friends (who were Guyanese) later moved to America and they lived in the abovementioned The Farm for a while but later settled in New York.

stc · Mar 30, 2008

Are you familiar with the Lyman Family? Fascinating. Long-lived and very successful.

http://www.trussel.com/f_mel.htm
Be sure to see the newspaper articles under 1985 and 1986

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Lyman

Peter Coyote talks about communes/collectives in his book "Sleeping Where I Fall."
He mentions the Lymans:
http://www.trussel.com/lyman/coyote.htm

LIVIN · Mar 30, 2008

Elaine Margarett said:
Sorry, no offense intended! My character was born in the late seventies and lived in a series of intentional communities.

I don't take any of that third word (don't know if I'm allowed to use that word anymore in my posts). Just offering a little insight, although some people might take that third word. (I hope no one takes that third word to this post.) Non of that third word intended, just a little humor.

dirtsider · Mar 31, 2008

Thanks, Bunny. (Sorry, I was away for the weekend.) There's no rush on the information but I'll definitely take you up on the offer when I get the chance.

Elaine Margarett · Mar 31, 2008

Thanks for the Input!

I appreciate the reponses and I've followed quite a few links.

I'm glad to see there is such a variety regarding the kinds and types of communities. It gives me lots of room to shape my character's background as I see fit. This isn't going to play a large part in the story, although I see ways I can make it a factor later.

Smiles,
EM

Tsu Dho Nimh · Apr 1, 2008

One thing to consider: I grew up in a rural area ... we grew our own food, canned fruits and made jam, chopped wood, made butter, and all those crunchy-granola commune things.

When invited to join a commune and do all of those things, but lacking bathing facilities, washing machines and room of my own, my reaction was not just no, but hell no!

She could have a serious lust affair with sybaritic luxury ... hot baths, convenience food, laundry machinery. Any chicken you don't have to chase down, kill, clean and pluck is a convenience food.

Elaine Margarett · Apr 1, 2008

Tsu Dho Nimh said:
She could have a serious lust affair with sybaritic luxury ... hot baths, convenience food, laundry machinery. Any chicken you don't have to chase down, kill, clean and pluck is a convenience food.

LOL! Can I use that?

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