Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy

eric11210 · Mar 24, 2008

Hey all,

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this, but I have a question. Or rather more an observation.

Ever since I started writing and started posting my work here and other places, one thing that I've been told again and again and again is to avoid third omni narration of a story. Or if doing it, to at least minimize the jumping between people.

I just started reading Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy and I'm wondering how he managed to do it. I admit, I am confused at times because he jumps from one person's thoughts to the next to the next. And yet somehow everyone seems to love this book.

Any thoughts on this? Is this the exception that proves the rule?

Or is it just that some people can't stand it and others love it?

Eric

Mr Flibble · Mar 24, 2008

Pratchett does it too.

The thing is ( i think) is that the narrator should have a strong indiviual voice. Easy to say, hard to do.

Devil Ledbetter · Mar 24, 2008

IdiotsRUs said:
The thing is ( i think) is that the narrator should have a strong indiviual voice. Easy to say, hard to do.

Yes, a strong narrative voice is important.

Rumors that omni should be avoided are greatly exaggerated. If it works for a story, then it's working. It's not the easiest POV to use, and unnecessary or jarring headhops should be avoided, but omni can work, and often does.

geardrops · Mar 24, 2008

Everybody has opinions on tense and POV.

Certain tenses and certain POVs are hard, which is why it's generally suggested that newbies avoid them.

But in the end, if you can make it work, go for it. Just don't talk like you're making it work until you pull it off. Until then, you're "experimenting."

David I · Mar 24, 2008

Any time you see a "avoid this" rule, it usually means that it is difficult.

Oh, there's a few people who take these rules as if they were engraved in stone, and proceed to like or dislike books because they do or don't conform to those rules. But those people are idiots.

Anpther thing to keep in mind: Comedy is a very special form. Things that can be irritating in dramatic fiction--overt, opinionated telling, head-hopping, or adverb-laden, non-'said' dialogue tags--can all work very well when the purpose is to make the reader laugh.

Most fiction strives to be somewhat unobtrusive. Comedy is anything but.

Smiling Ted · Mar 24, 2008

David I said:
Anpther thing to keep in mind: Comedy is a very special form. Things that can be irritating in dramatic fiction--overt, opinionated telling, head-hopping, or adverb-laden, non-'said' dialogue tags--can all work very well when the purpose is to make the reader laugh.

Most fiction strives to be somewhat unobtrusive. Comedy is anything but.

Spot on.
Pratchett and Adams work because their Third Person Omniscient is also Third Person Rather Humorous.

The Vogon ships hovered above the Earth in exactly the way that bricks don't.

Mr Flibble · Mar 24, 2008

Smiling Ted said:
The Vogon ships hovered above the Earth in exactly the way that bricks don't.

One of my fave all time lines....

Judg · Mar 24, 2008

Just finished Bel Canto which is written from an omniscient POV, head hops continually and is absolutely marvellous. And it is not comedy by any stretch of the imagination.

IceCreamEmpress · Mar 24, 2008

Hitchhiker's Guide was originally a radio play, so it's not always the most novelistic of novels.

"One POV character per scene" is a really, really good rule to remember.

I love 3rd person narrative both as a reader and a writer, but I don't write narrative where the overarching narrative voice talks to the reader (though I love it when it's done well, as Pratchett does!)

benbradley · Mar 24, 2008

David I said:
Any time you see a "avoid this" rule, it usually means that it is difficult.

Oh, there's a few people who take these rules as if they were engraved in stone, and proceed to like or dislike books because they do or don't conform to those rules. But those people are idiots.

Anpther thing to keep in mind: Comedy is a very special form. Things that can be irritating in dramatic fiction--overt, opinionated telling, head-hopping, or adverb-laden, non-'said' dialogue tags--can all work very well when the purpose is to make the reader laugh.

Most fiction strives to be somewhat unobtrusive. Comedy is anything but.

That's an excellent point and I also think comedy substantially lowers the bar on the reader's "willing suspension of disbelief" or whatever it's called. No author in his right mind would attempt to title a serious science fiction novel as "The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe." If you know what I mean.

Jenifer · Mar 24, 2008

Best. Book. EVAR.

He could do it because he was brilliant. I think it's about knowing your limits and/or learning to get past them.

AdamH · Mar 24, 2008

David I said:
Anpther thing to keep in mind: Comedy is a very special form. Things that can be irritating in dramatic fiction--overt, opinionated telling, head-hopping, or adverb-laden, non-'said' dialogue tags--can all work very well when the purpose is to make the reader laugh.

Another good example of this is THE GUN SELLER by Hugh Laurie (from House). Funnier than your average bear and as dry as a martini in Nevada.

blacbird · Mar 24, 2008

If somebody notices your POV structure, and finds it objectionable, you're probably not doing it well enough.

caw

bluntforcetrauma · Mar 24, 2008

Judg said:
Just finished Bel Canto which is written from an omniscient POV, head hops continually and is absolutely marvellous. And it is not comedy by any stretch of the imagination.

Which just goes to show that rules of writing are rather silly.

HourglassMemory · Mar 25, 2008

adams is omniscient is omniscient in a humurous way.
It's sort of this nonsense-humour which I guess is one of the favourite things that people point out.
Like the whale and the flower falling from the sky and the whale wondering about who she is, having this existensial discussion with itself, and that she calls the ground "ground" and that the only thing the flower thinks of is "Oh, not again".

The way he starts the series is also interesting.
He talks about this woman who finally found the meaning of life and that, thanks to her conclusion there wouldn't be any more wars and the like.
And then he says "This is not her story".

I've only read one Prattchet novel "Small Gods" and there are a few things like that, but they're not as out of nowhere nonsense as adams does. I think.
But what do I know of Pratchett, I've only read one novel.

Toothpaste · Mar 25, 2008

Adams is my idol, and you can so tell if you read my stuff. I wish I was him. Or at least a really good friend of his. This might sound crazy, but when I watch the film of the book, when his name comes up in the credits I get teary eyed (also when they show his face at the end). I regret the fact that I never got to meet him soooo much.

Oh. This was a thread about switching POV. Um . . . yeah, he's good at it.

Sorry, just felt like talking about my patron saint.

jessicaorr · Mar 25, 2008

I think it worked for Adams because he was brilliant. The book wouldn't be as good if written in any other POV, so that's what he did. You've got to use what POV works best for your story.

And yeah, Adams rocks. He's on my writer saint shelf

cmyk · Mar 25, 2008

Sometimes one of my writers comes into my office and says something like "I tried something different. I don't know if it works."

After I pointedly look at the clock and narrow my eyes at them and the nonverbal crawl of obscenities makes itself perfectly obvious, we usually laugh.

My feeling is: If you can REALLY make it work, you can have it. If it comes across as self concious or confusing, it's not working.

Has anyone read "How late it was, how late"? That's a Booker prize winner you could debate for hours. Not my favorite book, but I think it works.

Charlie Horse · Mar 25, 2008

Certainly if you've mastered the craft as well as Adams or Pratchett by all means have a go at it. Even if you haven't but feel compelled to write 3rd omni, give it a shot. Experimentation never hurts unless you're looking for a way to electrically charge your nipples.

Willowmound · Mar 25, 2008

IceCreamEmpress said:
Hitchhiker's Guide was originally a radio play, so it's not always the most novelistic of novels.

If we wanna be accurate, the Hitchhiker novels are based on a radio play. They're not adaptations. Adams said as much.

johnzakour · Mar 25, 2008

When you're Douglas Adams the rules (if there really are any rules) don't really matter. When you're good you're good.

Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy

eric11210

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

geardrops

Good thing I like my day job

David I

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Judg

DISENCHANTED coming soon

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

benbradley

It's a doggy dog world

Jenifer

Now with extra neurotic filling.

AdamH

Pumped Up Kicks

blacbird

bluntforcetrauma

Esquire

HourglassMemory

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

jessicaorr

Book fanatic

cmyk

Charlie Horse

Speaking in metaphors

Willowmound

Lightly salted

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard