on directing scripts

ricetalks

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It seems to me this whole idea of directing the script when you are writing needs a little clarification. People have taken this to heart to the point that they seem to be terrified of writing anything in case they make a mistake. God forbid you offend the director.

Don't direct you script because you don't need to. Don't direct your script because it tends to cutter your page with unneccessary detail and it gets in the way of you telling the story. Here are the main things to aviod using. These are DIRECTING details and, if you have them in your script, you should take them out.

WE PAN, WE DOLLY, CRANE SHOT, WE ZOOM IN TO, ANGLE ON, TWO SHOT, WIDE SHOT, MED. SHOT, CLOSE UP, WE DOLLY INTO, HAND-HELD SHOT. And there are others.

But, beyond that, most things are okay. WE SEE is okay. WE MOVE TO is okay. How you get there is up to the director. Wether he PANS, DOLLYS, OR USES SOME OTHER SHOT.

You must give the reader the experience of seeing the film and your pretty much justified in anything to do that. I have seen people give the advice to the writer that, hey, don't worry about it. They'll hire some comedian to punch up your jokes anyway so you can just write 'joke goes here'. Don't bet on it.

Remember, you are the writer. Nobody has any idea of anything until you sit down and write it. Until then, the crews and directors are just a bunch of guys and girls sitting around drinking bad coffee from the craft service truck. But when you're finished writing, everybody is suddenly an expert and has all kinds of ideas about what you should be doing.

Remember, you are the writer. Nobody knows anything until you write it down.
 

clockwork

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I agree with the sentiments of your post - that it's the writer's job to convey the film to a reader using the power of his words. But I also believe that each writer is different and that the screenwriting choices those writers make may save or doom their work depending on myriad unpredictable factors at the reading stage.

Like my agent says when I suggest a weird idea out of the blue, "Well. You must write what you want to write." Which I think is his roundabout way of saying, "if you feel a need to do something, then do it. But don't blame me if it gets you into trouble and don't say I didn't warn you." :)

Put camera directions into your work if you feel a need. But be prepared for your work to be embraced or, more likely, tossed because of it.

Remember, you are the writer. Nobody has any idea of anything until you sit down and write it. Until then, the crews and directors are just a bunch of guys and girls sitting around drinking bad coffee from the craft service truck. But when you're finished writing, everybody is suddenly an expert and has all kinds of ideas about what you should be doing.

Remember, you are the writer. Nobody knows anything until you write it down.

And I understand what you're saying here (and I don't know how far into your career you are) but if you haven't gone through the back-and-forth rewrite process yet, I think you'll be stunned by the level of support and expertise that good producers and directors can bring to the writing and development process. I can't begin to express how much I've learned in the past six months and when I think back to the state my script was in when it was initially optioned compared to what state it's in now, I can hardly believe that my producers saw the potential in it! Of course, when all's said and done, I'm the one that's incorporated all of their notes into the rewrites - it ultimately came down to my skills as a writer - but the quality of those notes and the insight they provided was very enlightening. I always knew the biz was collaborative but man, I really had no idea just how collaborative it was.
 

ricetalks

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I'm not advocating putting in camera directions. In fact, I am saying don't do it because it's working against you anyways. A good producer and a good director can and will add a lot of great feedback that is extremely useful. And bad ones will do the opposite. As David Mamett once wrote, "You have to ask yourself sometimes, do you require the good opinion of fools?"

All I'm saying is that when you get criticism or feedback on a script (and, God knows, that feedback can be all over the place, meaning it is inconsistant) you have to think about wether or not that person is really understanding and trying to create the same type of film that yopu wnat to see done.

Sometimes I think as writers we start to think that everybody else's opinion is right and forget that, hey, we are the people who have the original idea. We do know something about our own work. And yet, yes, looking at your own work and trying to figure out whether or not you have really acheived what it is you set out to do is like trying to see you own face in a mirror and see it as others see it.
 

clockwork

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I've said it before but it really is true - you'll never be worse off for considering the opinions of others. Even the bad ones. You don't have to implement their changes, you don't have to like them, but it's always worth asking yourself, "Why is this person suggesting this? What has brought this person to that opinion?" Analysing that can help you with clarity and focus issues in your writing - sometimes we bring bad notes on ourselves because we've not done the best we could in a particular scene. And of course, sometimes we just get really lame notes.

And although I like Mamett's quote, if I ever thought I was working with fools, I'd want out asap.

So what's brought all this on? Are you speaking from some recent experience that's got you down? ;)
 

ricetalks

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Experience in general. I find it really hard to find someone who really knows what they are talking about and gives you feedback that is truely helpful. Most of the time I get feedback like, (and I'm not quoting anyone directly here, but giving an example of things that are close) "I'd like to see more of the dog. I thought the dog was really interesting."

Well, that would be alright if the dog had anything to do with any thing in the script. But he really doesn't.

Or people suggest ideas that are completely derivative of something that I've seen a billion-million times or an idea that I thought of way back when and completely threw out as too cliched.

Yes, you need feedback. But why is it that total amateurs that have never seen a screenplay or read a screenplay before in their whole lives give me better and more constructive feedback than people who are supposedly in the business?

By the way, just to clarify the context from which I am talking from, my last screenplay (that I'll rewrite) finished top 10% in the Nicholl Screenwriting fellowship. So I may be dim, I'm not stumbling around completely in the dark.
 

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Well, I suppose that as long as you're getting good feedback from somewhere, it helps. I think there's a real art to accommodating notes (especially from people who are paying you) that is hard to nail down.

I've never had absurd suggestions or ones that made me scratch my head and wonder from whence such an asinine thought could possibly be pulled but I've had ones that I disagreed with. At first it was about who "won" the argument of what to change and what not to change but I don't think that's what it's about anymore - at least for me. I do know that the people I'm working with want to make the best product possible and that their suggestions come from a positive place and are made in the spirit of collaboration. Maybe I've just been very lucky so far.

I don't quite know what I'd do if I did get a "more of the dog" note. I guess you can only do the best you can with what you have. At least consider putting in more of the dog even if all that you get from it is a cogent reason as to why you shouldn't put more of the dog in. I think a lot of producers would be more likely to "accept defeat" on the dog if you tell them, "Well, I tired putting more of the dog in but I found that it really detracted from the main story."

:Shrug:

If you finished in the top 10% of the Nicholls then you're obviously doing something right so try not to let it get you down. Notes or not, that's still a great achievement.
 

WriteKnight

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I'm on board with 'everybody's got an opinion'... and I'm okay hearing it. It takes a while to sift through exactly what part of their opinion has value. It helps if there's a certain ammount of context- AND you have more than one opinion to work through.

I used to run a screenplay group out of my home a few years back. The group was for COMPLETED screenplays. Could be first drafts, could be tenth. I ran the critique session with a timer, and everyone drew cards to determine the order - most times there were six to eight people in a group.

Everyone got EXACTLY the same ammount of time to address what they thought were the strengths and weakness of the script. (If you had format or spelling issues, they were noted on the scripts handed back.) The writer did NOT answer or address the critiques, untill after the first 'round.'

Its amazing how you'd get seemingly conflicting notes - "The villain was unbelivable' vs "I TOTALLY identified with the villain". Made you look carefully at what THAT person was bringing to the script. WHY did it resonate with THEM? Is it an issue because of their age? Gender? Culture? One man's problem is another man's solution. Also - if there was a majority of folks WITH THE SAME PROBLEM or issue - then it was a clear indication that the note was especially worthy.

You can get similar feedback by getting others to read it independently.

When I re-wrote my scripts that were optioned - I initially wanted to strangle the pro-co. "We want more of the girl's back-story" turned slowly... EVER. SO. SLOWLY into "We want the story re-written from the girls point of view". And you know what? It worked. It was a good script. I was a DIFFERENT script, but it was a good one.

From these sorts of experiences, I have learned that my job as a writer is to be able to take what seems like a LUDICROUS suggestion, and make it work. "We want a scene with the space shuttle" "But it's a 17th century script!" - Can I make it WORK?

As an architect we might be asked to change the design - From Country to Modern, reverse the plans, move this room over here... add in an extra door and fireplace. We do this, because they bought the design. AS architects, we also have to be able to say ... "NO. If you knock down that wall, the whole thing will collapse."

That's the key to accepting those critiques and 'suggestions'. Understanding what parts of your script are load-bearing, and being flexible and accomodating about suggestions because - gosh darn it - YOU'RE JUST THAT GOOD.
 

ricetalks

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Write the shot! This is a very good link. I think it gets at the essence of what I started out talking about and it makes the very carifications that I think needed to be made and I was trying to define.
 

preyer

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to summarize:

write the shot to imply a camera angle or close up, etc.. the key word here is 'imply.'

use sentence/paragraph length to suggest the amount of time dedicated to a shot.

starting a new paragraph can suggest a new shot.

sound about right?
 

nmstevens

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I'm on board with 'everybody's got an opinion'... and I'm okay hearing it. It takes a while to sift through exactly what part of their opinion has value. It helps if there's a certain ammount of context- AND you have more than one opinion to work through.

I used to run a screenplay group out of my home a few years back. The group was for COMPLETED screenplays. Could be first drafts, could be tenth. I ran the critique session with a timer, and everyone drew cards to determine the order - most times there were six to eight people in a group.

Everyone got EXACTLY the same ammount of time to address what they thought were the strengths and weakness of the script. (If you had format or spelling issues, they were noted on the scripts handed back.) The writer did NOT answer or address the critiques, untill after the first 'round.'

Its amazing how you'd get seemingly conflicting notes - "The villain was unbelivable' vs "I TOTALLY identified with the villain". Made you look carefully at what THAT person was bringing to the script. WHY did it resonate with THEM? Is it an issue because of their age? Gender? Culture? One man's problem is another man's solution. Also - if there was a majority of folks WITH THE SAME PROBLEM or issue - then it was a clear indication that the note was especially worthy.

You can get similar feedback by getting others to read it independently.

When I re-wrote my scripts that were optioned - I initially wanted to strangle the pro-co. "We want more of the girl's back-story" turned slowly... EVER. SO. SLOWLY into "We want the story re-written from the girls point of view". And you know what? It worked. It was a good script. I was a DIFFERENT script, but it was a good one.

From these sorts of experiences, I have learned that my job as a writer is to be able to take what seems like a LUDICROUS suggestion, and make it work. "We want a scene with the space shuttle" "But it's a 17th century script!" - Can I make it WORK?

As an architect we might be asked to change the design - From Country to Modern, reverse the plans, move this room over here... add in an extra door and fireplace. We do this, because they bought the design. AS architects, we also have to be able to say ... "NO. If you knock down that wall, the whole thing will collapse."

That's the key to accepting those critiques and 'suggestions'. Understanding what parts of your script are load-bearing, and being flexible and accomodating about suggestions because - gosh darn it - YOU'RE JUST THAT GOOD.

I've gone through a long, difficult road dealing with notes. Part of it has to do with simply a real frustration about it and simply accepting the fact (one that I have come to acknowledge as unavoidably true) that those who are giving you notes really don't read the script or the draft very carefully. Sometimes they're just skimming it. Or maybe just having their assistants read it and do notes for them.

I have been forced to accept this because I have found -- and at a certain point I really started looking for it just to be sure -- that I have yet to receive a set of notes that didn't contain at least one note instructing me to include something that was already in the draft in question.

And I'm not talking about some vague thing that's open to interpretation. I mean very specific things like, "We should see the fleet of missiles being launched" -- ignoring the fact that there's a four page scene in which the missiles are shown being launched.

And I have seen that constantly. All the time. And there was a time when I would be foolish enough to point this out to the people that were writing the notes -- "Yes, you're right. It would be a good idea to show the missiles being launched. That's why I wrote a four page scene starting on page 88, in which you can see the missiles being launched."

This never gets you anywhere. Because, no matter what, like the "customer" -- the people writing the notes are always right. What makes them right is that, in addition to writing the notes, they are also the ones writing the signature on the check -- and if they get annoyed with you, they'll write a signature on a different check to a different writer who annoys them less.

It has taken me years to figure out how to master the art of "agreeing" with a note -- and at the same time not doing it.

Because I've found that, more than anything -- that's really what they want. By agreeing with them, you are acknowledging whatever their concern is -- which may be legitimate -- in which you can actually do the note (no problem) -- or it may simply require some kind of clarification. But what it really requires -- whether it shows up in the script or not -- is acknowledgement.

One great method I've found, for instance is "lesser concern against greater concern" -- and it runs something like this, "I've been thinking about that note about establishing John's backstory. I can certainly do it -- and I agree that having that material would help us to understand where John is coming from -- but my concern is that we're already tight in the first act -- and that's really the only place that we can put it -- and you've already made the point that we need to keep that first act tight, and I completely agree with you there. I think that's really critical that we don't get bogged down. But it's really up to you. But you have to figure -- if we go with that material, it's going to add another couple pages to Act One. So -- it's up to you..."

The trick, of course, is to pick some "other concern" that you know that they really value much more than whatever it is that you don't want to do -- so that they'll go with the thing that they want more.

The argument generally works along the lines of X changes the story here in such a way that Y (the thing they like) over there, ends up being changed or lost. But you're more than happy to do it. Just so long as they understand what's at stake.

Not that X is a bad idea, mind you. But Y is so much better, you'd hate to lose it.

And there are other strategies and variations on this but it really comes down to the same thing. They're not wrong. It's a good idea, but for "reason X" -- oh, darn it -- we just can't do it. In fact, maybe I've even already tried to do it, and I couldn't make it work because of X, Y, and Z. But indeed, it was a good idea.

Because that way, instead of it being you against them, it's "us" working together, both of us trying to come up with ideas, trying to find solutions together to solve problems that we've both recogized in the script and sort of helping each other out.

Just creating that "sense" of collaboration rather than of knocking heads together can make all of the difference.

NMS