flashback or no?

KarlaErikaCal · Mar 18, 2008

I wrote one because I didn't want infodumps/backstory.

My main character, Kaliope, struggles with herself at times because she is known for being able to fight well but deep inside she just wants to prove herself to others. I'll get into it a bit later here. My story begins with a fight between her and another student. Although she didn't start it, she gets into more trouble than the boy. Then she finds out all the boys she fought passed with warnings and she was stuck with all these punishments. The fighting has been going on for about two years.

Kaliope has a flashback to when she first found out she was adopted and how it ruined the only identity she had. Then it jumps to her telling her best friend, Paula what she overheard her parents talking about.

My story takes place in the 28th Century, and that's why others had a problem with the adoption thing in my queen or no? thread. I won't go into that though. I took that part out by the way. In these future schools, her school especially, the students had grudges against adopted kids because they felt the adopted kids weren't born into their society (rich upper class school). They didn't deserve to be raised by rich parents etc.

Now back to my story: Her friend says Kaliope is dirt, and doesn't deserve the life she has and all this other stuff against Kaliope. Kaliope decides to throw her pasta in Paula's face. Paula's boyfriend comes along and challenges Kaliope to a fight because he's not afraid to hit girls that bother his Paula.

That was Kaliope's first fight; she won of course. That's key in my book. All in all, she fights the boys who taunt her about her adoption status. Of course, deep inside she's a bit weak since a) she still doesn't know her true background, b) she feels like an outsider, and c) when the fighting began she started having a lot of arguments with her parents. Her parents don't realize she knows until the next scene.

Then it jumps back into the present tense and by remembering her life-altering moment she felt extreme guilt. I still have to write more about how she felt looking back. Since I also have a problem with telling instead of showing, I'll try really hard to show.

I know they say to save the flashbacks until after you've written and published a few books, but I don't really understand why. I've heard that seasoned writers know how to do it better or something like that.

So should I keep it or not?

Wolvel · Mar 18, 2008

If the flashback helps to define the character without slowing down the story then that is okay. I have read some flashbacks that were done perfect and others that were no more than a info dump.

Also a flashback can help if the mc is having probelms with their memory or the situation they are in.

Andrhia · Mar 18, 2008

It sounds like your intended flashback provides necessary context, and in an action-packed way instead of an infodumpy talky way, so hurrah. Sounds like it should work to me.

Of course, the true test is to write and see if it fits once you've done it.

KarlaErikaCal · Mar 18, 2008

Andrhia said:
Of course, the true test is to write and see if it fits once you've done it.

I stated I wrote one in my first sentence

But what you've said and Wolvel said are really helpful. So thanks!

Mythica · Mar 18, 2008

I think flashbacks are a great way of showing instead of telling, if done correctly. You can show what happened in a character's past instead of telling, but as long as you add a flashback of an actual event instead of "talky" pointless stuff like Andrhia said. My book has a few flashbacks in it, but I use them to reveal a few bits about why my MC is the way she is.

Flashbacks are a delicate thing and can be very valuable, but only when executed correctly.

Feathers · Mar 18, 2008

I don't know what I'd do. I believe *most* flashbacks can be woven into the story by using some well-placed lines. But, I use flashbacks myself...somehow they always feel necessary when its me.

Maybe you should make your flashback into the prologue. That way it's like "here's something you need to know for the rest of the story to make sense," and then in the actual story, you don't need to keep going back and explaining things. This would allow you to write the vital scene in real-time.

If you don't want to do that, I'd make sure my flashback wasn't the info dump kind, and then yeah, I guess i'd keep it. But you're almost always better off without them.

-Feathers

RJK · Mar 19, 2008

KC - People advise to avoid flashbacks because they are difficult to do well. From your description, it sounds like you have a good handle on what you want to show and how you want to write it. I would say, go for it. After your project is complete, and your beta readers have provided their feedback, you will know if you should revise, delete or leave it as written.

Jeremy · Mar 19, 2008

It looks like there is a lot of action and raw emotion in what you’re planning for a flashback. With all that going for it, I doubt it would slow down the story or seem like an info-dump.

I say go with it.

David I · Mar 19, 2008

The fact that many flashbacks are poorly done doesn't mean you should fear them. Most novels are poorly done, with or without flashbacks.

Who comes up with these rules, anyway?

Go for it.

Michael Davis · Mar 19, 2008

View/experience on lfashbacks

I was fortunate from one publisher to actually get constructive comments (most were "too busy" or "Don't be insulted by this form letter"). One helpful editor's basic view was that the story/characters were great, but way too much use of flash backs. I went off in my room and licked my pawns, and after several weeks, I figured how to eliminate the flash backs (two characters discuss the event, one updates the other on what happen,etc). Once I reread the story, it was indeed much better. The only time I do flashbacks now (try to keep to 2 or less per story) is if its something that only a specific character knows (like an evil deed).

Thats not to say that some don't like them. My recent paperback (Tainted Hero) has done quite well in the reviews, yet I still had one reviewer rate it very positive, except ... she would have liked to see more flashbacks. Point is, you can't please everyone, flashbacks can be powerful, but try not to over use them. most readers like to deal in here and now. At least, thats my take.

Big Mike

Michael Davis
Davisstories.com - “Stories that touch the heart and mind"
TheWritersVineyard.com
[FONT=&quot]Tainted Hero[/FONT], “Sometimes good people do bad things for the right reasons.” Champagne books,Dec 07
[FONT=&quot]Forgotten Children[/FONT], “Greed is blind to human suffering.” Champagne books,July 08
[FONT=&quot]Blind Consent[/FONT], “Where the heart and mind collide.” 09
[FONT=&quot]The Treasure[/FONT], “A lonely heart can impair one’s judgment.” Forbidden Speculation paperback, Dec 07

Michael Parks · Mar 19, 2008

My two cents: I'd say use flashback, but keep it short and on track to the reason for the flashback... dip back, get the needed background/development, and bring it right back... heck, go back again for more, if need be, and let the mc interact with the flashback as it develops the reader's understanding. But don't overdo it - short, enough to deliver the goods.

Make it easy on the reader by staying on track with the point of the scene(s).

kzmiller · Mar 19, 2008

I agree with making it as short as possible. Sounds like it's relevant and you have the right ideas. Now for the delicate touch!

BTW in regard to prologues--they're darned useful critters, but ... My friend Mary Rosenblum (fabulous writer, btw) takes an informal poll at almost every convention she attends when she's on a writing panel that relates to openings. The question is, how many of you skip the prologue? Over half of the people raise their hands. When she told me that I whined and groaned. How could they do that? What if the prologue is really good? What if it really matters to the story? What if what if ... they don't care, they want to get straight to the story. So a prologue is good advice, but ...

Sigh.

gp101 · Mar 20, 2008

Easy on the flashing in public.

I've read some stories where the flashbacks were so good they were like a mini-story within the story AND shined light on the current story. Didn't mind them at all. But as newbies, we're already facing an uphill battle. Flashbacks are tough to pull off. Maybe you do them nicely. But if you can incorporate specific details in the NOW of the story, why risk a flashback? If you have enough betas that like them or didn't mind them, then maybe you're onto something. But if you get a couple of questions/hesitations about them, work the FB details into the NOW of the story. It's not that hard.

jedimaster107 · Mar 20, 2008

I know in my current WIP (which is back on the chopping block) has some flashbacks through out. but those flashbacks are memories. The main female character lost her memory. The flashbacks are her remembing. Towards the end, I have one chapter that is nothing but flashback. It shows how everything happened. How the psycho started stalking the main female character and how the female character met her husband and brother-in-law and the psycho's reaction to that.

Cat Scratch · Mar 20, 2008

They are hard to do well, but I don't think that means a writer shouldn't attempt them. If you pull them off, then doubly-impressive, no?

wrdsmth · Mar 20, 2008

Of Flashback & Prologues and Cabbages & Kings

You know that old saw about "Rules were made to be broken?" It applies here, too, with a caveat. Most flashbacks are NOT done well and the writer should find a better way of revealing any truly neccessary info. But don't be dissuaded because "published writers have more experience and know how to do it better."

They don't.

I've read some really bad 'stuff' from highly published/experienced writers. If you understand the dynamics, can insert the flashback smoothly, and can do it well, then DO IT! Most people who believe they can do it well cannot however, so don't be afraid to get the opinion of a trusted proofreader. If the story slows down at the flashback or if they tend to skip over it, you did not do it well.

I've thrown out some really good writing, reducing it to a couple of sentences in the present tense, because it was a flashback that simply didn't work. I also have one novel that is, quite simply, all about the flashbacks. A flashback may be anywhere from three or four pages to twenty.

It's a tricky juggling act to know when and where the flashback really belongs or if it is just a convenient tool to get the 411 into the story without a lot of work.

Oh! And one word (okay, a few words) about the prologue. Most people DO ignore it, so what does that tell you? The only prologue I ever wrote set the basis for the story, which unfolds 17 years later. There was some wonderful prose in that prologue. But guess what? It wound up on the euphemistic cutting room floor. After two years of manipulating it this way and that, I scrapped it almost completely, salvaging the meagerest of data which was worked into the body of the story.

As with all rules, however, even that one is made to be broken and, if there really is no other way to include vital information ... write your prologue. Just don't become addicted to the concept. (He who lives by the prologue, dies by the prologue.)

David I · Mar 20, 2008

Something that concerns me here is that everyone seems to be discussing flashbacks in terms of "information" or "details."

A flashback ought to be a brilliant scene, one that the reader is grateful to read. I agree that if you only need to get in a few details you should shoehorn them into present narrative or whatever.

A good flashback isn't just 'backstory'. It illuminates the whole novel like, well, a lightning flash.

Practical advice? Write it. See how good you think it is when you rewrite. If it isn't brilliant, then either make it so, or toss it and get the info in some other way. But write it first.

Constantine K · Mar 20, 2008

I don't use flashbacks because, frankly, I'm not skilled enough to do them right. Also, I find them unnecessary 90% of the time.

Wolvel · Mar 21, 2008

Question, is the flashback where your characters mind wanders back or could you do the same idea by having your mc tell the story to another character?

wrdsmth · Mar 21, 2008

David I said:
Something that concerns me here is that everyone seems to be discussing flashbacks in terms of "information" or "details."

A flashback ought to be a brilliant scene, one that the reader is grateful to read. I agree that if you only need to get in a few details you should shoehorn them into present narrative or whatever.

A good flashback isn't just 'backstory'. It illuminates the whole novel like, well, a lightning flash.

But, David, the way I see it, the whole manuscript is nothing but information. It's just a matter of how you present and percieve it. After all, novel writing is just telling a story. And, what is a story but a lot of information strung together about a particular subject.

WOLVEL said:
"Question, is the flashback where your characters mind wanders back or could you do the same idea by having your mc tell the story to another character?"

The first scenario is a flashback. A character's mind 'flashes' back to an earlier time. Your second scenario is not. (Although, in scriptwork, a passage such as you describe (the MC telling someone else about a previous event) could segue into a flashback scene.)

writeroffthelake · Mar 23, 2008

is it really a flashback

Are you sure you have a flashback? Sounds like you just added backstory but not really a flashback.

Whether to keep it or not should depend on the answers to a few questions:

1 - is it relevant at the moment you go into the flashback?

2 - does it stop the action or add to the action?

3 - are you able to get into and out of the flashback without it seeming contrived?

Only you can tell if it's working, but if you're too close to your work right now you may need to let it cool and then make your decision after working on other pieces for awhile.

writeroffthelake · Mar 23, 2008

Wow, never thought of a novel as information or telling a story.

I've always thought of fiction as characters acting out their lives in scenes that are linked through cause and effect and end with the character reaching a resolution, having an insight to something that's happened, or changing because of what s/he's lived through.

Information doesn't have to have a conclusion and just telling a story doesn't have to have cause and effect. Fiction must have both.

HeronW · Mar 23, 2008

As long as the flashback works to advance the drama, go for it.

Michael Davis · Mar 25, 2008

David I said:
Something that concerns me here is that everyone seems to be discussing flashbacks in terms of "information" or "details."

A flashback ought to be a brilliant scene, one that the reader is grateful to read. I agree that if you only need to get in a few details you should shoehorn them into present narrative or whatever.

Very good point, David I. When ever I've used flashbacks, its been to reveal an event or condition that has caused a character to behave in a manner that is out of norm with general behavior or that explains why they have the demons or flaws that haunt them. And its always something that none of the other characters are aware of in the story. In my original manuscripts, I was lazy and used them to depict character attributes or general history. Based on feedback from reviewers, I learned that such use of flashbacks goes down hard with readers and there are much better techniques.

flashback or no?

KarlaErikaCal

YA romance writer in love with love

Wolvel

Write the Damn Book!

Andrhia

KarlaErikaCal

YA romance writer in love with love

Mythica

Expert Gerbil Wrangler

Feathers

emerging from the writing cave

RJK

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

Jeremy

Infinite in Mystery

David I

Michael Davis

Michael Parks

In the moment

kzmiller

Fair weather fanatic

gp101

jedimaster107

Cat Scratch

The Peacock Next Door

wrdsmth

2muchtimenotenuff2do-w8reversethat

David I

Constantine K

Wolvel

Write the Damn Book!

wrdsmth

2muchtimenotenuff2do-w8reversethat

writeroffthelake

writeroffthelake

HeronW

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Michael Davis