Frequently Asked Grammar Questions

[TemlynWriting]

Coming soon... this thread (yes, this one right here!) will feature links to various popular grammar questions in the grammar forum. This has long been a plan, and I'm finally getting around to doing it.

It will be a work-in-progress for a while, as I don't have a lot of time at the moment to weed through all the threads, but in a few weeks I hope to have this thread full of FAQs!

EDITED TO ADD:

This thread is not going to be for asking questions; rather, it will feature links to existing threads. This is to avoid the same questions being asked over and over again as brand new threads. (The freelance writing forum has something similar, with frequently asked questions about freelancing.)

I'll probably create sub-headers, e.g., "Comma Questions." Below the sub-headers I will link to all the existing related threads.

(For the time being I will leave the thread open for responses and requests for other FAQ, but if it ever gets too far off-topic I may close it.)

FAQ: Words

Lay vs. Lie

The Definitive Lay-or-Lie thread (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105210)
laid, lain, lie, lies? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88019)
Another "Lay" Question (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69637)
Lay vs. lie (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57336)
Lays or lies? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42984)
Lay or lie? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34436)


Dates, Numerals, Numbers

Writing dates in dialogue (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137601)


Either/Both

Either side/Both sides (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138324)


Was/Were

Was or were? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134768)


Between/Among

Between / Among (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134827)


Of

Is "of" necessary? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137055)


Modifiers

Have question about modifiers (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136306)


Tense

Would Be Tense Question (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135958)


That

Weeding "that" out of your manuscript (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93977)


Who/Whom

Who/Whom (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133601)

---

FAQ: Punctuation issues

Apostrophes/Possession:

Possessive Question (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28061)
Possessive... Markus' or Markus's? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28205)
Presidents', President's or Presidents Day (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27768)
Writer's Group or Writers' Group? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135400)
Possessive... Markus' or Markus's? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28205)
Photo's or photos? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134395)


Capitalization:

Capitalization Question (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27416)


Commas:

Comma, Si! Or Comma, No! (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27102)
Commas and Direct Address (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27590)
Too many commas? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135518)
Even more commas (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134805)
Commas, commas, commas (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134746)
Over comma-ing? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133439)


Ellipses

Ellipsis at the end of a quote, and at the end of a sentence. (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136676)


Hyphens

year-old... two hyphen questions (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131573)
Short-hand, shorthand, or short hand? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137135)


Italics:

Using quotation marks and italicising etc. (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27461)


Quotation Marks

Quote within Dialogue (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27843)
Using a comma or period with quotation marks (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28003)
Punctuation inside quotation marks (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27906)
Using quotation marks and italicising etc. (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27461)
I is forgetting my rules about quotes (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135918)
Sentence with a question in the middle (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134886)
For a slight change (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134815)


Semi-colons

Semi-colon question (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27104)


Miscellaneous:

"a" versus "an" before the letter "h" (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26946)

Interrupted dialogue, ellipses, em-dashes, lowercase vs. caps (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209678)

--

[Silver King]

Great idea, Julia! It will be nice to have some of the more common questions gathered in one place. :)

[Ken]

That's really cool!
Look foward to having it as a resource.

One of the questions that always plagued me was whether a flipped-about sentence gets puntuated:
1. They jumped for joy when hearing the good news.
2. When hearing the good news they jumped for joy.
(Comma needed after news in the 2nd one?)

[Bufty]

Yes, but I don't really care for either sentence, and why bother flipping? The sloppy use of 'when' tends to screw sentences up.

If one event occurs before the other, that's the event I should read about first. It's your first sentence that's 'flipped'.

That's really cool!
Look foward to having it as a resource.

One of the questions that always plagued me was whether a flipped-about sentence gets puntuated:
1. They jumped for joy when hearing the good news.
2. When hearing the good news they jumped for joy.
(Comma needed after news in the 2nd one?)

[Autodidact]

I would love a handy guide to parentheses punctuation combined with period, commas, and other punctuation. Same for quotes, not quotes per se, but quotes with other punctuation. Those seem like things I can't master. If anyone has a mnemonic device that would stick in my brain, it would stop me having to look them up constantly.

[TemlynWriting]

That's really cool!
Look foward to having it as a resource.

One of the questions that always plagued me was whether a flipped-about sentence gets puntuated:
1. They jumped for joy when hearing the good news.
2. When hearing the good news they jumped for joy.
(Comma needed after news in the 2nd one?)

Thanks, anis. :)

Actually, your question would be better asked in its own thread. This thread is not going to be for asking questions; rather, it will feature links to existing threads. This is to avoid the same questions being asked over and over again as brand new threads. (The freelance writing forum has something similar, with frequently asked questions about freelancing.)

I'll probably create sub-headers, e.g., "Comma Questions." Below the sub-headers I will link to all the existing related threads.

Does that make sense?

So, please feel free to ask this question by way of creating a brand new thread. Let me know if you need help! :)

Edited to add:

By the way, I would probably rewrite your sentence as:

They heard the good news, and jumped for joy.

(Or something along those lines.) ;)

[Maryn]

Don't forget to include LAY/LIE. I've answered that one so many times I copy and paste now.

Maryn, too old to jump for mere joy

[absitinvidia]

That's really cool!
Look foward to having it as a resource.

One of the questions that always plagued me was whether a flipped-about sentence gets puntuated:
1. They jumped for joy when hearing the good news.
2. When hearing the good news they jumped for joy.
(Comma needed after news in the 2nd one?)

This one's already been answered in this thread, no? How to punctuate an introductory participial phrase.
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95058

[DecSigns12]

This is awesome! I struggle with fragments and run-ons urgh!!!

[IceBlueIrish]

EXTREMELY Helpful! Thank You so much!

[Barrett]

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes, but here are some common issues I see. I hope these suggestions are okay. I really appreciate the thread.

There/They're/Their

The It Family Its/It's/Its'

and Then/Than

[Matera the Mad]

Alan Cooper's Homonyms (http://www.cooper.com/alan/homonym_list.html) is as about good as it gets.

[Maryn]

Splurt! I misread that as Alice Cooper. Yeah, that's who I go to with all my homonym questions.

Maryn, old and blind

[Susan Littlefield]

Excellent links! Thank you!

[ballroom16]

Re the parentheses questions: Here's a quick rule that might help with some sentences (it's saved my neck many times): NEVER put a comma before parentheses.

[Alan Creffield]

Here is a real simple yet effective rule that I use when proof reading my work.

READ YOUR WORK OUT LOUD.

It really helps to indicate where comma's should be, whether a sentence is too long, whether a sentence flows etc.

Find out more great tips at my website mentioned below.

[Terie]

Here is a real simple yet effective rule that I use when proof reading my work.

READ YOUR WORK OUT LOUD.

It really helps to indicate where comma's should be, whether a sentence is too long, whether a sentence flows etc.

Find out more great tips at my website mentioned below.

Sorry, but while reading aloud is good advice for other reasons, it is TERRIBLE advice for determining where commas go. Commas are governed by actual grammar rules, not by someone's ear. To learn how to use commas correctly, writers need to study the rules. And read...a lot.

[Maryn]

Amen, Terie. Unfortunately, a whole generation of students was taught that where a reader pauses, a comma goes, which is sometimes right but more often just plain wrong.

There are rules, easy enough to master, and plenty of people who know this stuff backward and forward who'll gladly help when which rule applies to a given sentence isn't really clear.

Maryn, who helps at times but bows before the expertise of others

[Chase]

Here is a real simple yet effective rule . . . READ YOUR WORK OUT LOUD.

It really helps to indicate where comma's should be, whether a sentence is too long, whether a sentence flows etc.

Another amen.

"Real simple" says it all for those who insert or delete "comma's" by speaking the words they write aloud.

From the time we first pushed pencils across pulpy paper, our heads have been filled with similar bad advice. "Put a comma where you take a breath" leaves wide gaps between lung capacities of asthmatic writers and those who dive for pearls.

By definition, readers do not listen with their ears; they read with their eyes. While some may follow lines with a finger and move their lips, most do not.

Commas indicate separations of for meaning between words, phrases, and clauses. Natural pauses sometimes occur there, sometimes not.

If we're dedicated enough to write for publication, we should be dedicated enough to learn the five rules for necessary commas (no apostrophe).

[Ferret]

My guess is that a lot of people incorrectly add commas before subordinating conjuctions (because, when, etc) because they are adding commas where they pause. This is a good example of why the advice is flawed.

[claws2]

The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language (CGEL), published 2002, authored by Huddleston and Pullum (et al.) is a tome on a descriptive grammar for Present-day English. Its chapter 20 is "Punctuation," which is authored by Geoffrey Nunberg, Ted Briscoe, Rodney Huddleston.

I'd like to post here some excerpts from that chapter: text that is within section 3.2.5 Delimiting commas. The excepts are from pages 1746-1747,

Adjuncts and complements

Because the function of delimitation is to set an element off from the central part of the message, it applies in clause structure predominantly with adjuncts rather than complements. Delimitation of a complement in its basic position is normally highly deviant: *He blamed, the accident, on his children. With adjuncts, there is considerable variation as to when delimiting commas are used: this is the area where the contrast between the heavy and light styles of punctuation is most evident.

The main factors influencing the use of delimiting punctuation are:
[27]
i. length and complexity of the constituent
ii. whether or not there are punctuation marks nearby
iii. the linear position of the constituent
iv. the semantic category of an adjunct
v. the possibility of misparsing
vi. prosody

...

Consider next the semantic category of the adjunct. We have noted that complements are not normally delimited and this reflects the fact that they are more tightly integrated into the main predication; similarly, within the very wide range of adjunct types, those that are related most directly to the verb and its complements are less likely to be marked off by commas than the semantically more peripheral ones. ...

...

Consider finally the relevance of prosody. We have emphasised that punctuation cannot be regarded as a means of representing the prosodic properties of utterances, but there is no doubt that there is some significant degree of correlation between the use of delimiting commas and the likelihood that the constituent concerned would be set apart prosodically in speech. Compare, for example:
[33]
i. That is probably true. However, we should consider some alternatives.
ii. That is clearly unsatisfactory. Thus the original proposal still looks the best.

In speech an initial however is characteristically prosodically detached from the rest, while thus is not, and this correlates with the fact that delimiting punctuation is much more frequent with however than with thus.


So often, we tend to remember the exceptions at the expense of remembering the strength of the general guideline (or rule). And so, I'd like to reiterate the general guideline that was near the bottom of the above excerpt,
Consider finally the relevance of prosody. We have emphasised that punctuation cannot be regarded as a means of representing the prosodic properties of utterances, ...


Also, remember that CGEL is a descriptive grammar, and so, it will not seem to be as dogmatic or rigid as the prescriptive grammars (that are often used to teach grammar or are part of style guides) tend to be.

Hope this is helpful. :)
imo.

[Filmfeline]

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes, but here are some common issues I see. I hope these suggestions are okay. I really appreciate the thread.

There/They're/Their

The It Family Its/It's/Its'

and Then/Than


OMG, when I see people make mistake with this and I know they're college graduates, it drives me bonkers!

So, you guys are talking gramma here? How is she? How is grandpa? LOL

[Maryn]

Filmfeline, if I were a college administrator, I'd be taking those diplomas back. There's no excuse for a college graduate not to have mastered such basics.

Gramma's good, when her sciatica's not acting up.

Maryn, lucky not to have sciatica--yet

[CBlaire]

The sentence starts: But when she meets Vic,..........
I realize the use of *but when* is weak grammar. However its use allows a thought to be briefly stated within limited lines of a query letter. Comments?

[RobinDelany]

thank you for the useful information.
Robin

[Maryn]

Robin, when and if grammar questions arise as you write which a're not addressed her already, feel free to start a new thread. There are several people here who know this stuff backward and forward and can get you out of a jam.

Maryn, who's more about knowing where to look it up