When is it oK to kill your protag??

sheadakota · Mar 8, 2008

I am near the end of my WIP and one of the endings I am thinking of (my favorite) is a bit dark- I hate happy endings- It is a thriller- and I am thinking of having my protag (who has struggled with questions of his own humanity throughout the novel) die saving the woman he loves. By doing so he re-claims his humanity but he dies- Too dark? Bittersweet ending- my favorite- but would readers be pissed?

Sage · Mar 8, 2008

I'd be sad (if I like the character, which I prolly would, having read the whole thing), not pissed.

Then again, I've used this ending, so keep that in mind with regards to my opinion. Some people will probably hate it.

Also I love bittersweet endings.

Rolling Thunder · Mar 8, 2008

I've written two endings for one of my stories allowing for both the death and salvation of my protag. It's not only entertaining (to me at least) but if a publisher says, 'Nice story but the MC dies and we were hoping for a series so, can you change it?'...I'm all set.

Do whatever you feel you need to do, to make the story the best it can be.

Snowstorm · Mar 8, 2008

Wow, that question gives a jolt! For those who like happy endings (I do) or an ending where everything is nicely wrapped up, one way to have the best of both worlds is if the story's set up so that the woman he loves is set up to "carry on" the mission, if there is one, to help it be upbeat. I don't think readers would be ticked, but it sure gives your story a twist!

To give you another thought, if you let your protag live after he's reclaimed his humanity and lives happily ever after, that sounds awfully cliche and would detract from your story.

Riley · Mar 8, 2008

This is all my personal opinion, or course.

If your character's development logically leads to this conclusion, I'll buy it. But a lot of times, I'll read stories where the hero "redeems" himself by dying for someone else in a contrived plot device. Then I get ticked. I followed the hero through the story for nothing?

I think the thing about endings is 1. the ending has to be (or at least feel) logical and 2. it has to tie up loose ends.

sheadakota · Mar 8, 2008

Thank you all for your thoughts on this- I didn't plan on killing him when I started this- It just worked out like this! I hate it when my characters do that to me-I really do feel that the only way he can 'save' himself is to die- But I do leave it open for a sequal- the girl is pregnant- He was supposed to be sterile- oops! This character makes so many mistakes through out the book- he hurts a lot of people- somehow his death makes it all forgivable - as Sage said I hope the reader will be sad- that would be sweet ( I like the alternate ending idea as well)

sheadakota · Mar 8, 2008

Riley said:
This is all my personal opinion, or course.

If your character's development logically leads to this conclusion, I'll buy it. But a lot of times, I'll read stories where the hero "redeems" himself by dying for someone else in a contrived plot device. Then I get ticked. I followed the hero through the story for nothing?

I think the thing about endings is 1. the ending has to be (or at least feel) logical and 2. it has to tie up loose ends.

That's what I am aiming for- his death being the logical conclusion to this whole thing- I want him to live- But i don't think it would work- the ending would be to sunshiney when the whole tone of the book has been somwhat dark. akkk- I'm going crazy trying to write this thing!

lute · Mar 8, 2008

Riley said:
This is all my personal opinion, or course.

If your character's development logically leads to this conclusion, I'll buy it. But a lot of times, I'll read stories where the hero "redeems" himself by dying for someone else in a contrived plot device. Then I get ticked. I followed the hero through the story for nothing?

I think the thing about endings is 1. the ending has to be (or at least feel) logical and 2. it has to tie up loose ends.

I agree with Riley here. It sounds like you have a handle on your character and his development throughout the novel, though, so you should be fine. I don't want to follow the character and then have him die when it would have made a better statement or had been more logical if he lived. : ) I particularly enjoy those bittersweet endings, but that's more of a personal opinion ; )

HeronW · Mar 8, 2008

Another angle, if you're planning a series or sequel, do you need this MC to live or die?

Zoombie · Mar 8, 2008

Kill him! KILL HIM!

<ahem>

Or don't. It's your story, choose what feels right. I just finished reading a series where the hero dies. But it's okay, life goes on, and it's still a happy ending. You can have death and happiness in an ending, you know.

So...write it, and the rest shall attend to itself.

maxmordon · Mar 8, 2008

Kill him if the events around him lead him to this logical conclusion. And his death is not necessarily the end of the story. Read Kafka's Metamorphosis or watch Kurosawa's Ikiru

~grace~ · Mar 8, 2008

maxmordon said:
Kill him if the events around him lead him to this logical conclusion. And his death is not necessarily the end of the story. Read Kafka's Metamorphosis or watch Kurosawa's Ikiru

Or just watch Ikiru because it rocks the world.

I like killing important people. (in fiction! in fiction!) Keeps the readers on their toes. And if it seems to make sense in the story--and it seems like you've put a lot of thought into it--then I say go for it. Even if it's the MC.

I don't like gratuitous, "we need to kill someone so let's kill this person" killings though. See the end of Serenity for an example.

Terran · Mar 8, 2008

I get pretty irritated when I have invested in a character throughout the course of a novel only to see him go *splat* in the last act.
Though if it has been built up during the course of the novel that this is going to be the most likely outcome...I am less upset.

Just my 2c

maxmordon · Mar 8, 2008

I have the case that the MC kills himself at the end (he hangs himself after having sex with a prostitute he doesn't see so he could believe is his lost love and he got his job back; just to die happy) but I care too much to do it (Also because you could say he is a reflexion of my frustrations, obsessions, fears and hates)

Yes, I have issues

maxmordon · Mar 8, 2008

I just remembered an amusing story about this.

A friend of my grandfater who is a poet was trying to write his first novel but the editor and everyone else complained that he had too many characters

His solution? He put all the characters on a bus and throw them to a ravine...

Ravenlocks · Mar 8, 2008

sheadakota said:
I really do feel that the only way he can 'save' himself is to die- But I do leave it open for a sequal- the girl is pregnant-

Are you writing Terminator?

I say go with your gut feeling. If you feel he has to die, write it that way. But if you're asking for input because you really aren't sure what to do, that could be your gut telling you he shouldn't die.

For the record, I have no problem with bittersweet endings.

bunnygirl · Mar 8, 2008

Write the ending you want to write. If you write it with the character dying, he'll let you know if that's really not what should've happened.

I tried to kill a MC and she was so insistent that it wasn't the right ending that I changed it. As it turned out she had a totally rockin' sequel for me!

Therefore, I say write the ending instinct guides you to and see how it works. You can always re-write it if it feels wrong or if your character protests.

giusti · Mar 8, 2008

I took an English Lit class. In ninety percent of the literature that we read, the main character died (I normally make a point to distinguish between the MC and Protag, but in this case, I'll let myself slide). It became to be known that our class revolved around "death and shopping." (In several of the works we read, the characters were also rather materialistic, hence the shopping (see A Pair of Silk Stockings, Araby, Paul's Case, etc.).

To make my point, the happy ending is new, not the bittersweet or sad. After all, some of the first literature pieces ever were the greek tragedies. In most of these, the protag dies. In the few that don't, such as in Oedipus, he simply gouges his eyes out (don't worry, he dies later). If the right place to go is your character hitting the big Koopa in the sky, don't let Disney stop you.

-giusti

Cassiopeia · Mar 8, 2008

I wouldn't kill him for the sake of avoiding the "happily ever after ending". That can be as contrived as the happy ending where he lives.

Ask, what does it do to the story? Does it make it any more or less poignant?

sheadakota · Mar 9, 2008

HeronW said:
Another angle, if you're planning a series or sequel, do you need this MC to live or die?

It woul easier to do a sequal if he lived, but not needed- I'm not a sure I want to do a sequal with this- I might just let it stand alone- but I could do one without him.

sheadakota · Mar 9, 2008

HeronW said:
Another angle, if you're planning a series or sequel, do you need this MC to live or die?

~grace~ said:
Or just watch Ikiru because it rocks the world.

I like killing important people. (in fiction! in fiction!) Keeps the readers on their toes. And if it seems to make sense in the story--and it seems like you've put a lot of thought into it--then I say go for it. Even if it's the MC.

I don't like gratuitous, "we need to kill someone so let's kill this person" killings though. See the end of Serenity for an example.

I don't like gratuitious killings either, that is what originally concerned me- I do make the reader fall in love with Quinn (My protog) I want them to be sad at the end but understand and approve of his death. thanks so much-

(i was trying to do a multiquote thingy - messed it up!)

sheadakota · Mar 9, 2008

Ravenlocks said:
Are you writing Terminator?

I say go with your gut feeling. If you feel he has to die, write it that way. But if you're asking for input because you really aren't sure what to do, that could be your gut telling you he shouldn't die.

For the record, I have no problem with bittersweet endings.

LOL- OMG_ I just realized how that sounded! Thank goodness I don't have a Kyle or a Sara in this thing- Nope nothing like Terminator!

sheadakota · Mar 9, 2008

giusti said:
I took an English Lit class. In ninety percent of the literature that we read, the main character died (I normally make a point to distinguish between the MC and Protag, but in this case, I'll let myself slide). It became to be known that our class revolved around "death and shopping." (In several of the works we read, the characters were also rather materialistic, hence the shopping (see A Pair of Silk Stockings, Araby, Paul's Case, etc.).

To make my point, the happy ending is new, not the bittersweet or sad. After all, some of the first literature pieces ever were the greek tragedies. In most of these, the protag dies. In the few that don't, such as in Oedipus, he simply gouges his eyes out (don't worry, he dies later). If the right place to go is your character hitting the big Koopa in the sky, don't let Disney stop you.
-giusti

I think that's why I love Shakesphere so much- so much tragedy- heheh- even his comedies are tragic- maybe that was my influence- hmm-but you're right - I never thought of it that way before- the happy ending is relativley new- thanks for commenting-

Stew21 · Mar 9, 2008

I am a firm believer that the ending doesn't have to be happy it just has to be true to the story and satisfying. Kill the character if that is the best way to tell the story.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 9, 2008

When is it oK to kill your protag??

When it makes the story better.

When is it oK to kill your protag??

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