Consensus on dialects, regional vernacular?

sassafras · Mar 1, 2008

Do you avoid having your narrator use regional dialects & vernacular?

My narrator is a uneducated, good ole 'backwoods-country-boy' - and as such, I hear him using the stereo-typical backwoods vernacular & phraseology. (*scratch* *scratch*).

I'm finding though, that there might be a fine-line between keeping his voice true to 'form', and being in danger of losing a reader's interest.

So far - he either sounds a little TOO much like he's an escapee from 'Deliverance' - (although, truth be told, he probably lives somewhere nearby there) - which would get tireseome to read.

OR - he sounds a little too well educated and 'modern' to fit the part.

My instinct is to write like he SOUNDS in my head - but I don't want that vernacular to become a chore for the reader. I guess, I'm still searching for that middle ground.

With that in mind - How do YOU handle the use of local dialects and vernacular and still stay true to character?

Though I've tried others, HE is definitely the most likely and fitting narrator for this story.

Anyway, any suggestions? Would you read a book so narrated?

Ta,
Sass

IceCreamEmpress · Mar 1, 2008

As long as you don't use weird orthography of the "We wuz shur surprised by Maw's kyoolinary konkoktion" school, it's all good with me. I like T. R. Pearson a lot, and his narrators and characters have a strong regional voice.

Red-Green · Mar 1, 2008

I agree with ICE--use the grammar and phrasing of the vernacular, but don't change the spelling. Remember that there's nothing wrong with telling the reader how a character pronounces things. In a short story of mine I use that method and I'll give an example--here two characters are haggling over an antique photograph at an auction.

"I reckon you just want the frame. You'd throw the picture out, wouldn' you?" He talked like a real Cracker, saying, "pitcher" and dropping the "r" in throw.

To me as a reader, that's far less jarring than having to read, "You'd thow the pitcher out, wouldn' you?" Although I did opt to drop the "t" on wouldn't. After you've established a character's pronunciation habits, you don't have to keep it up. Once I've set this character in readers' minds, I don't even have to drop the "t" or the "g" at the ends of words. As long as he continues speaking in the same rhythm and grammar, readers will fill in that accent on their own.

HeronW · Mar 1, 2008

I find reading dropped g's awkward in southern dialects, the same as I would dropped h's in Cockney. Then again my Dad was from Rhode Island and they add extra r's if the word ends with one sounds like there's 2-5 :}

It's less important to me how a person speaks than what he feels, thinks, does, etc. Similar to dropping in foriegn phrases. Once or twice will give you the flavor, all over just makes reading impossible.

steveg144 · Mar 1, 2008

Every attempt to do it that I've ready has wound up looking annoying at best, patronizing at worst. Annie Proulx has this infuriating habit of believing that if she wants to suggest any regional dialect, from Newfoundland to Montana, all she has to do is drop the ending "g" on words. It winds up looking forced and silly.

Mumut · Mar 1, 2008

I drop the leading 'h' when medieval peasants' speak but there's not so much of that in the book. I also avoid too many words starting with 'h' in those passages. It's a balance between confusing the reader, slowing the pace or having to keep saying 'the rustic peasant said...'. In the part of England where a lot of the action takes place they'd actually say, 'Oye be a farmer, oye be,' but I don't go nearly that far.

I have other typing for marauding French mercenaries. But again, this is only a small percentage of the whole.

Ben_G · Mar 1, 2008

Speaking strictly as a reader, I've only known one writer who ever got away with changing the spellings to reflect regionalism - Brian Jacques - and even his stuff is borderline. If one of his Redwall books had a conversation that went on too long, I'd start feeling like I needed subtitles. For every other example, regionalistic spelling catapults me out of the narrative, which is kind of a no-no.

Sometimes, I've found that the accent is actually in the dialogue itself - the writer doesn't have to knock off a single -g. I tend to "think" British accents when I'm reading Discworld books - even though some of the books are pretty light on the UK cues. It's a talent I'm struggling to put to use, but subtlety's never been my strong suit.

Appalachian Writer · Mar 1, 2008

From my perspective, the failure to give geography as much voice as character subtracts from any works authenticity. I'll give you the same advice I received from a friend and an excellent writer. She said, when using dialect, that the true phonetics of dialect make a reader have to work too hard to enjoy the story. Her suggestion is to spatter the dialect, choose a few, and just a few, phrasings that repeat themselves in such a way as to make the reader "think" in that dialect. For example, in the Appalachians it is not uncommon to hear "ing" verbs preceded by the "uh" sound. If you allow your character to say things like "I'm a coming" then after a while, the reader begins to "think" the dialect. I can send you to a few pieces that might illustrate this usage better than I can if you like.

aonarach · Mar 2, 2008

a limited amount of regional dialect, where appropriate, can add flavor to a story, but i think it's a matter of moderation. sometimes even if you know the vernacular is fitting, it can seem forced or out of place to readers unfamiliar with a particular region. i'm editing a 1st draft of a novel that takes place in northern michigan, but i think it loses some of its authenticity if i replace every "t" with a "d" (think "Escanaba in da Moonlight"). though many people from this area of the country do speak with a distinct accent, it can come off as cartoonish to those who have never heard it for themselves. i like to use words or phrases unique to the region, instead of changing the pronunciation of commonly used words (a favorite of mine for this particular WIP is "apple knocker"), though it is important not to overuse these as well.

Bufty · Mar 2, 2008

"Them's that dies will be the lucky ones!"

I think it's much more effective to concentrate on local - or the particular language's - word choice and phrasing instead of silly phonetic or mis-spelling. Once the reader knows where a speaker is from or that he speaks with a particular lilt or accent, that's all he needs to know. Maybe an other character can comment upon the strange way he pronounces a particular word or phrase, or his accent, but it only needs one prompt.

The reader has an imagination, too, and will remember to interpret that character's spoken dialogue accordingly.

ishtar'sgate · Mar 2, 2008

Not exactly the same problem but I had a small child that lisped in my novel. The first time he spoke I showed the lisp. The second time he spoke I referred to the lisp and then omitted it any mention of it from then on. I think the reader realizes he's a little guy and the lisp is constant. It's just annoying to have to see it all the time.
Linnea

AZ_Dawn · Mar 2, 2008

I won't be inflicting heavy eye dialect on my readers. Read The Complete Tales of Uncle Remus to find out why. :e2thud:

Mr Flibble · Mar 2, 2008

Mumut said:
In the part of England where a lot of the action takes place they'd actually say, 'Oye be a farmer, oye be,' but I don't go nearly that far.

Well that'd be fine rendered 'I be a farmer, I be' - proper spellings but using the language the way the dialect does. I've got a group of people who have an 'accent' as far as my POV character is concerened, so she speaks normally( to her anyway), and they say 'I were that upset,' or 'Didn't see none of them, but you'd not be knowing that'

At least you don't have to decode the spellings that way, but the fact they talk differently is clear.

Scrawler · Mar 2, 2008

I really have a hard time reading dialects-- so I don't. Irish author Maeve Binchy's characters are obviously Irish, but she keeps it simple-- saying things like "It was grand altogether" rather than the more typically American "It was awesome!"

Paichka · Mar 2, 2008

I have some regional accents (made up, of course!) in my WIP, and I'm trying not to overdo. The only one that's really apparent is my gutter-rat's accent. The rest of them I treat as below:

“Who’re they?” she asked the boy standing to her left.

“The warders, I think,” he answered. His accent was thick and doughy; she had to strain to pick out his words. Thaaa waaahdaarrs, Oie d’ink. “It’s time for the –“ what followed was a word so garbled it was unrecognizable. Doiwhizz’n.

“Sorry?”

“Doiwhizz’n!” He insisted. “Thaa doiwhizz’n!” With a disgusted sound he waved at the crowd. “Oinnta glassys!”

Something clicked. “Oh, right. The division into classes. My thanks.”

Throughout I just have my characters comment about how so-and-so has a really thick accent. For Aemys (the character above), I write out his dialogue in plain English. It's only when someone doesn't understand what he's saying that I write it phoenetically. I try to get the point across through the rhythm of how they speak.

Like most people in this thread, funky regional accents tend to jar me out the story.

Shweta · Mar 3, 2008

I like strong regional variants. I really do not like funny spellings. My sense is that one really doesn't need to sound out the words for the reader, and that it's more often patronizing/annoying than not.

It is, also amazing how much dialect can be shown with just sentence structure and word choice.

Rosina lippi has an absolutely wonderful blog post about all of this, using Gone with the Wind as an example.

Jenan Mac · Mar 3, 2008

There's a different rhythm to different regional accents-- not just pronunciation, or speed, but a syntax that is unmistakeable. "Y'all aren't from here, are you?" automatically sounds completely different from "Yo, where you from?" You can hear the Low Country in the first one, and it takes about twice as long to read.

Bufty · Mar 3, 2008

Sorry, Paichka, but that phonetic stuff does not work and adds nothing at all for me, especially as the dialogue was already shown in straight English.

I would manage okay with your subsequently describing the accent as thick and doughy and indicating one had to strain to catch the words.

Paichka said:
“Who’re they?” she asked the boy standing to her left.

“The warders, I think,” he answered. His accent was thick and doughy; she had to strain to pick out his words. Thaaa waaahdaarrs, Oie d’ink. “It’s time for the –“ what followed was a word so garbled it was unrecognizable. Doiwhizz’n.

“Sorry?”

“Doiwhizz’n!” He insisted. “Thaa doiwhizz’n!” With a disgusted sound he waved at the crowd. “Oinnta glassys!”

Something clicked. “Oh, right. The division into classes. My thanks.”

sassafras · Mar 3, 2008

Thank you all for the 'roadmap' you've given me ... this was one of those issues I wasn't sure how to solve on my own, but you've all given great suggestions.

Thank you, sincerely,
Sass

IceCreamEmpress · Mar 3, 2008

IdiotsRUs said:
Well that'd be fine rendered 'I be a farmer, I be' - proper spellings but using the language the way the dialect does. I've got a group of people who have an 'accent' as far as my POV character is concerened, so she speaks normally( to her anyway), and they say 'I were that upset,' or 'Didn't see none of them, but you'd not be knowing that'

At least you don't have to decode the spellings that way, but the fact they talk differently is clear.

To me, this is always the right solution. "I were that upset" gives me a flavor of a distinctive regional voice, but my eyes aren't annoyed by having to decipher some weird orthography. "Ah wurr zat upsitt" would fill me with rage.

Southern_girl29 · Mar 3, 2008

Bufty said:
"Them's that dies will be the lucky ones!"

I think it's much more effective to concentrate on local - or the particular language's - word choice and phrasing instead of silly phonetic or mis-spelling. Once the reader knows where a speaker is from or that he speaks with a particular lilt or accent, that's all he needs to know. Maybe an other character can comment upon the strange way he pronounces a particular word or phrase, or his accent, but it only needs one prompt.

The reader has an imagination, too, and will remember to interpret that character's spoken dialogue accordingly.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I hate reading a book where someone tries to write Southern dialect, and they usually wind up with it all wrong anyway. Word choice and phrasing is what is most important.

windyrdg · Mar 3, 2008

Someone who does a real good job with dialect is Diana Gabaldon. Read any of her books to see what I mean. The other thing is to find the words, phrases and sayings that reflect the time and place. I think that's better than the phonetic spellings that most people hate.

Saundra Julian · Mar 3, 2008

Being a Southerner, I'd like to add we don't all talk like hillbillies. As a matter of fact, some of us don't think we even have an accentl.

I personally hate to try (and usually won't) read a book filled with hardcore dialect of any kind.

If you doing "Southern" there's a lot of way to get the accent across without going overboard.

sassafras · Mar 3, 2008

Saundra Julian said:
Being a Southerner, I'd like to add we don't all talk like hillbillies. As a matter of fact, some of us don't think we even have an accentl.

I personally hate to try (and usually won't) read a book filled with hardcore dialect of any kind.

If you doing "Southern" there's a lot of way to get the accent across without going overboard.

Hmmm - I don't think I said this character was southern - and goodness, I know that not all southerners talk like hillbillies.

I even agree that a book overloaded with colloquialisms is way overboard -(which I said in my initial post), and, which was my initial concern.

The responses on this thread have been great - I've got a way better handle on ways and ideas to show the necessary syntax and dialect, without having it overwhelm the story.

(It's weird coz I knew all this (believe it or not) ... I just had to be reminded to get out of my own way ... I have a bad habit of overthinking everything lol)

Thank you for the suggestion regarding Diana Gabaldon - gotta make a trip downstairs and grab a couple of her books - excellent idea.

Thanks to each of you ....
Sass

Paichka · Mar 3, 2008

Bufty said:
Sorry, Paichka, but that phonetic stuff does not work and adds nothing at all for me, especially as the dialogue was already shown in straight English.

I would manage okay with your subsequently describing the accent as thick and doughy and indicating one had to strain to catch the words.

Oh, I was afraid that someone was going to say that. I wasn't clear in my original post.

Let me clarify -- my example was the ONLY place in the book where I do that, and it was mostly for humor's sake. The one other time that character appears, his dialogue is written in plain english. One other character has a strong accent, but I don't write her dialogue phonetically -- I just have one of the other MCs comment on how strong of an accent she has.

I show regional variations in two places in my characters' speech -- the way they say the word "yes" (aye, yar, yes), and the rhythm of how they speak.

I dislike phonetic spelling immensely, and it tends to jar me right out of the book.

Consensus on dialects, regional vernacular?

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