Borrowing a line or plagiarizing?

Define "borrowing a line." If you start your novel with "It was the best of times, it was the worst (blurst?) of time," your "line borrowing" is probably plagarism (that might be a bad example -- Dickens might be in the public domain, I don't know). This might be a little controversial, but people usually make too big of a deal about plagiarism. Obviously, ripping characters and verbatim chapters, etc, are a no-no. If you like a particular phrase or something, though, it's not a big deal.

Note, however, that I am not a lawyer. If an author thinks you have directly plagiarized, they are permitted by law to sue you (well, you can sue whoever you want, but you get my drift).

Also note that you shouldn't confused plagiarism with "IP Theft" (which doesn't really exist). Plagiarism more often notes the word-by-word ripping of a written work. For instance, the whole thing about JK Rowling plagiarizing Harry Potter is rubbish, for even if she DID read the book and take the word "muggle", that is not plagiarism, as the stories and even the terms have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

If you are taking the exact line you are not borrowing...you are plagiarizing.

Unless it's from a book in the public domain (meaning the copyright has expired-- such as The Iliad or something), it is plagiarism to "borrow" a line from another author's work. Obviously, there are lines that might appear in dozens of books ("Where are you going?" for example), but if it's anything recognizable, you should steer away from it. And even if the book IS in the public domain, it's considered polite to source it, I believe.

If you give me the exact line, and context you want it in, I can tell you better.

ETA: Whoops, double-post with KTC. But yeah, what he said is right in most circumstances.

Yes...but you did cover the public domain issue nicely, too. (-;

zegota said:

Define "borrowing a line." If you start your novel with "It was the best of times, it was the worst (blurst?) of time," your "line borrowing" is probably plagarism (that might be a bad example -- Dickens might be in the public domain, I don't know).

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Dickens is in the public domain, but that doesn't affect the issue of plagiarism. If you use direct quotes from someone else's work without proper attribution, it's plagiarism, pure and simple. Public domain or not; public domain only affects the issue of copyright protection, i.e., whether or not you need to get copyright holder's permission to use an attributed quotation, or piece of work.

caw

If the original source is indicated or apparent it may be fair use/homage. If you are effectively taking credit for the words as if they were your own invention, it is plagiarism.

KTC said:

If you are taking the exact line you are not borrowing...you are plagiarizing.

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You could be quoting.

If someone wrote "Elementary, my dear Watson!" in a novel, I wouldn't think they were plagiarizing or borrowing--I'd think they were quoting.

IceCreamEmpress said:

You could be quoting.

If someone wrote "Elementary, my dear Watson!" in a novel, I wouldn't think they were plagiarizing or borrowing--I'd think they were quoting.

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Yes, I think this is where it's trickiest. If you're deliberately alluding to another text, generally that falls under fair use. The reason for writing 'Elementary, my dear Watson' is precisely to make people think of Sherlock Holmes. I think that the Dickens' quote earlier is also well-enough known to fall into this category. Even if these weren't public domain then I don't think a plagiarism case would stick because there's no intent to deceive.

If, however, you just see a phrase in another person's writing that you think fits in your own work, that's plagiarism. It may also be copyright infringement if the work is not public domain. There's no such thing as 'borrowing' someone else's words - you can't give them back.

Okay, I gotta confess. I stole "it" from Stephen King.

caw

There's another point. If you use what is obviously someone else's words and it is not for a special effect, it doesn't speak well for your writing skills.

We get inspired by other writers who use language the way we would like to.
Being inspired motivates us to find that greatness within ourselves...
Unless you are using the line as an epigraph or quoting it and attributing it properly -- to just copy it and insert it into your narrative may not be useful -- although it is probably not technically plagiarism-
"The sky is blue." & "The grass is green." is most likely in a gadzillion books.
But "The trees stretched their arms up to the sky in an electric frenzy." is probably not.
I have to ask your intent.
I may often read things that I wish I had written myself -- it's not wrong to switch things around -- mix things up --
Make it your own...
OTOH
If it worries you and you think it might be wrong or unethical-- it probably is...

Patricia's got a very good point re: intent. I tend to write little inside jokes into my stories, like having a character say into the phone, "Send lawyers! Guns! And money!!" figuring Warren Zevon fans will get a laugh and non-fans won't miss anything. I'm not trying to rip off Warren, God rest his soul. I'm borrowing a line of his for a cheap joke. I think he'd approve.

On the other hand, if I wrote a story called "Lawyers, Guns and Money" about a guy who goes home with a waitress, finds out she's with the Russians, gambles in Havana, takes a little risk, kills an innocent bystander and hides out in Honduras, a desperate man, I might be in trouble. Maybe I should ask my lawyer. Or my gun. Or...

There is a grey area in between the quoted-text and the everybody-knows-this-quote, and plagiarism. I'll agree with previous posters and say it comes down to intent. Do you want your readers to know what you've taken the line from? (quoting/reference). Or do you want them to think it's your line? (plagiarism).

Of course, even if your intent is quoting/reference, you need to be extra-careful to make sure nobody could accuse you of plagiarism -- either you need to be saying where the quote came from, or you need to use a quote that everyone knows, or make it very clear in some other approved way that quoting is happening. Even if it's public domain.

The public domain aspect is irrelevant regarding the definition of plagiarism. (It's more than relevant if the original author decides to sue you, however.) What matters is whether you're trying to pass off someone else's work as your own. If you're offering a different spin on it, you're taking a literary risk, but as long as it's obvious that you're adapting something and not just riding someone else's magic carpet, it's not plagiarism.

While I condemn plagiarism, I think copying the writing of an author you admire is an understandable phase in learning to write. As long as you don't pass it off as your own, it can be a useful exercise. I think some here even advocate typing out whole chapters of books you like so that you can get the flow of the writing.

I'm not sure why you would want to "borrow" someone else's line when there are so many good ones out there waiting to be created.

Unless of course your using a famous line as a tool to tell your story, in which case you need permission and proper citations and all that stuff.

If I borrowed my neighbors lawnmower without his knowledge and told everyone it was mine, I'm pretty sure that would be stealing.

Good artists borrow, great artists steal?

The issue, as noted, is obfuscated by homage. For instance, when reading this thread I instantly thought of Neil Gaiman in Neverwhere. Near the end of the novel he has a line about the color of the sky being that of a television tuned to a dead channel. I instantly thought of the opening line of Neuromancer by William Gibson. It seemed odd to me, because the line wasn't an exact quote and neither was there anything that indicated the reader was supposed to recognize the context of the line. And as far as parellel thought, it's near impossible that Gaiman would not have read Gibson, and it's also unlikely he thought that his readers would not have read Gibson and remembered it.

So what was it? Plagiarism? Unlikely, as Gibson's line is quite famous and neither Gaiman or his editors would be that stupid. Homage? It seemed a little out of context. Well, when searching for the exact line online (I am not near my bookshelf), I inadvertently discovered it was a joke.

"t was a very small joke, essentially pointing out that since what is arguably the most famous opening sentence in SF was published in 1984, the nature of what a "dead channel" looked like had completely changed, from grey static fuzz to a pure dead blue. Well, I thought it was funny, anyway."
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2004/12/some-days-bears-on-top.asp

So, there's plenty of reasons you may have a line similar to another offers. Some reasons are more acceptable than others. Intention counts, methinks. At least among your readers. The difference between borrowing and plagiarism, then, may be said to be your intention combined with the effect on the audience. At least for single lines.

BTW, the two lines in question are:

"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." - Gibson, Neuromancer

"The sky was the perfect untroubled blue of a television screen, tuned to a dead channel." - Gaiman, Neverwhere

The difference is, indeed, attribution.

If you KNOW you're borrowing from someone, attribute, at least subtly. Acknowledge your debt. I'm sure you guys would want the same done for you when you hit it big, right?

Yes, so many words have been written, so many metaphors made, and we've all read so much it's possible to accidentally come up with the same idea, or subconciously, unintentionally plagarize something you read and thought you'd forgotten. Even a phrase or idea can be enough to get you in trouble.

But don't assume everyone gets your "tribute" as such. Although if you work in comedy, satire has broader "fair comment" rules.

Strive to be original.

A famous book and the ghost of the famous author who wrote it play a large part in my own novel. Never once do I directly quote the book. Not once - and not even with attribution do I quote it. (permissions to use the material for one thing, and the other is - it's obvious which book it is, if someone reads my book and is interested in reading the other, they can go get it from their library and read it.) I didn't want to borrow the author's words to improve my own work. I wanted my novel to be all mine.
I do sum up some of the book's themes, but never quote, even as I put words in the ghost's mouth and had him speak to my MC, none of them were real quotes.

I don't understand why you would feel the need to directly "borrow" anything without proper attribution.

I'm currently in the middle of fixing up a book that is basically a spin on Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass. When I first got the idea for it, I immediately thought, 'Awesome!' Then: 'Crap, can I actually do that without getting sued by somebody?'

Thus started the rooting around and asking people for help and information. Lewis Carroll's writing is in the public domain and there is no estate. There have been many works directly influenced by the books, and I uncovered a lot of short stories based around the subject or themes of the book. I discovered Frank Beddor was writing The Looking Glass Wars trilogy which is basically Alice in Wonderland for teens, but I didn't know if he'd had to jump through hoops - and no, I haven't read them.

It was the Disney film that I was most worried about, but I finally figured out that as long as I didn't directly use anything that only the film describes - such as putting the Cheshire Cat as pink and purple - I was fine. So eventually I figured out that what I was writing fell more into the fair use/homage criteria rather than plagiarism, I nevertheless decided not to directly use any lines from the novels, save for the 'mad people' discussion between Alice and the Cat and some phases from the Jabberwocky.

I think if you gave us some more information, we'd be able to help you more.

To borrow things from other books is to be inept at creating things that other people will steal.

vfury said:

I'm currently in the middle of fixing up a book that is basically a spin on Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass. When I first got the idea for it, I immediately thought, 'Awesome!' Then: 'Crap, can I actually do that without getting sued by somebody?'

Thus started the rooting around and asking people for help and information. Lewis Carroll's writing is in the public domain and there is no estate. There have been many works directly influenced by the books, and I uncovered a lot of short stories based around the subject or themes of the book. I discovered Frank Beddor was writing The Looking Glass Wars trilogy which is basically Alice in Wonderland for teens, but I didn't know if he'd had to jump through hoops - and no, I haven't read them.

It was the Disney film that I was most worried about, but I finally figured out that as long as I didn't directly use anything that only the film describes - such as putting the Cheshire Cat as pink and purple - I was fine. So eventually I figured out that what I was writing fell more into the fair use/homage criteria rather than plagiarism, I nevertheless decided not to directly use any lines from the novels, save for the 'mad people' discussion between Alice and the Cat and some phases from the Jabberwocky.

I think if you gave us some more information, we'd be able to help you more.

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Jasper Fforde didn't seem to run into any problems with appropriating the Cheshire Cat (not to mention hundreds of other characters from Bronte, Dickens, Beatrix Potter, Shakespeare and a host of other authors). But then, the whole premise of his work depends on being able to get inside books, so it's very clear that these (a) are nothing to do with Disney and (b) aren't his own invention.

The Grift said:

...The issue, as noted, is obfuscated by homage.
...
So, there's plenty of reasons you may have a line similar to another offers. Some reasons are more acceptable than others. Intention counts, methinks. At least among your readers. The difference between borrowing and plagiarism, then, may be said to be your intention combined with the effect on the audience. At least for single lines.

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Good examples. I'm not a lawyer but the whole "newsworthy" aspect of this thread intrigues me. I'm glad you brought up the concept of homage. In my current WIP I would like to include an author's notes/bibliography page which would point out the sources for my inspiration/information. One of these things is a deliberate homage to Tennessee Williams. The MC has a middle name of Tennessee because his father was a fan of the artist's plays. That's brought up in the first chapter.

Near the end the line, "Looks like we've had this date from the beginning." is spoken by the MC. He knows the line because of his father's influence. That's not plagiarism (although I'm not a lawyer...) it is an homage and justified by portions of the story.

Even "lifting" a scene hasn't been proven to be plagiarism. If that were the case, LKH should be in legal action for the blatant scene ripoff in the short story by Sunny in "On The Prowl."

If THAT scene isn't guilty...well there isn't much hope for fiction fans. Although the original was MUCH better.

I won't even go into the fiction and non-fiction portions lifted by *not naming names in order to be nice* as referenced by this document.

Amy

The Grift said:

So what was it? Plagiarism? Unlikely, as Gibson's line is quite famous and neither Gaiman or his editors would be that stupid. Homage? It seemed a little out of context. Well, when searching for the exact line online (I am not near my bookshelf), I inadvertently discovered it was a joke.

...

"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." - Gibson, Neuromancer

"The sky was the perfect untroubled blue of a television screen, tuned to a dead channel." - Gaiman, Neverwhere

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I uh, laughed my head off at Gaiman's line, and I hadn't yet read Neuromancer then. It might be a time thing; I seem to remember a time when every sf/f geek I knew was quoting the Neuromancer line.

Stew21 said:

I don't understand why you would feel the need to directly "borrow" anything without proper attribution.

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There are a few reasons one might want to. For example, the Gaiman joke -- it wouldn't have worked if he'd explained it. And in Fforde's case, as girlyswot mentioned, the characters wander into books and meet the characters, and overt attribution would spoil the story.

A couple other examples come to my mind. Madeline Robins' wonderful and unavailable rant A Point of Honor starts off with a twist on the first line of Pride and Prejudice. It couldn't be attributed. The reference is entirely clear, but it's a joke that sets the tone of the book, and citing would kill it right there.
Susanna Clarke has an Austen reference in an earlyish chapter of Jonathon Strange and Mr. Norrell. The narrator overtly mentions that "another author once said", but does not name her, because that would be breaking character.
And in Pamela Dean's Secret Country books, certain characters are speaking in lines from fiction, (mostly Shakespeare and other classics) mostly out of context and sometimes changed somewhat, and while other characters occasionally note this, they don't stop every single time and say "And that, fair reader, was from...". There is a most excellent plot-related reason for it, and I think she does it successfully.

So I think it depends on how separate from the book the quote is. If it's in a place where you can grin at the reader and acknowledge that this is just a book, then it's possible to say where the quotation came from. If it needs to be seamless, you need a more indirect way to acknowledge a quote.