Between. Among. Discuss.

TerzaRima · Feb 26, 2008

I came across the following clause in a paper I'm editing: "After collaboration between Agency A, Agency B, and Agency C, blahblahblah happened."

While I realize that between is sometimes appropriate for more than two subjects, my first thought was to replace it with among. But that version looked, if anything, clumsier to my eye.

Thoughts?

ColoradoGuy · Feb 26, 2008

I'd use among. I also think I'll move this thread over to grammar because it's more about a nuts-and-bolts discussion than the more theoretical things we have in here.

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 26, 2008

"Among" is correct. I've given up on convincing anyone else that the more-than-two "between" is a bad thing, though.

blacbird · Feb 26, 2008

"Between", by definition, implies two items, juxtaposed. More than that, it should be "among". That a lot of people misuse the word "between" doesn't make the misuse correct.

caw

TerzaRima · Feb 26, 2008

Thanks, everyone. (And ColoradoGuy, thanks for moving this).

Flay · Feb 27, 2008

blacbird said:
"Between", by definition, implies two items, juxtaposed. More than that, it should be "among". That a lot of people misuse the word "between" doesn't make the misuse correct.

caw

I don't know of a single reliable dictionary, or a notable expert on usage (with the exception of Eric Partridge), that supports that notion. As noted in the SOED, between is "The only word expressing the relation of a thing to many surrounding things severally and individually." This is true of US usage as well. From the AHD:

According to a widely repeated but unjustified tradition, "between is used for two, and among for more than two." It is true that between is the only choice when exactly two entities are specified: the choice between (not among) good and evil, the rivalry between (not among) Great Britain and France. When more than two entities are involved, however, or when the number of entities is unspecified, the choice of one or the other word depends on the intended sense. Between is used when the entities are considered as distinct individuals; among, when they are considered as a mass or collectivity.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/between

For example: a triangle is the space lying between (not among) three points; voters choose between four candidates.

ErylRavenwell · Feb 27, 2008

I need the full sentence. "Between" is probably wrong here, but something odd about the sentence that compels me to ask for the full sentence. I'll conjecture that maybe the collaboration has been between any two of the three agencies at a time (as between A and B, B and C, A and C).

ErylRavenwell · Feb 27, 2008

Flay said:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/between

For example: a triangle is the space lying between (not among) three points; voters choose between four candidates.

That's why I have my suspicion of the above. "Between" may be correct. But I don't agree with your examples, Flay. A triangle is the space inside the minimum perimeter of three points and voters choose from among.... Between is used if the voters have to choose between two voters at a time, not from the four as a group.

Marlys · Feb 27, 2008

To add to what Flay said, here's a note from the Online OED:

In all senses, between has been, from its earliest appearance, extended to more than two. In OE. and ME. it was so extended in sense 1, in which AMONG is now considered better. It is still the only word available to express the relation of a thing to many surrounding things severally and individually, among expressing a relation to them collectively and vaguely: we should not say ‘the space lying among the three points,’ or ‘a treaty among three powers,’ or ‘the choice lies among the three candidates in the select list,’ or ‘to insert a needle among the closed petals of a flower.’

She_wulf · Feb 27, 2008

Marlys said:
To add to what Flay said, here's a note from the Online OED:

My understanding was "between" indicated a spacial concept. E.g. "between a rock and a hard place." Where the speaker/subject was separated from the concept. Or as Flay stated they are individual concepts.

Among denotes a more vague concept of fluid value where the subject is included with the concept or the concepts are similar. E.g. "we lived among the lilies."

Is that wrong?

Amy

CutteRug · Feb 28, 2008

She_wulf said:
My understanding was "between" indicated a spacial concept. E.g. "between a rock and a hard place." Where the speaker/subject was separated from the concept. Or as Flay stated they are individual concepts.

Among denotes a more vague concept of fluid value where the subject is included with the concept or the concepts are similar. E.g. "we lived among the lilies."

Is that wrong?

Amy

That looks right to me. "Honor among thieves" indicates two relationships -- thief-to-thief, and thief-to-world.

Not that it's really a saying, but "Honor between thieves" would just describe the thief-to-thief relationship.

Cheers,

Adam

Oberon · Feb 28, 2008

TerzaRima said:
I came across the following clause in a paper I'm editing: "After collaboration between Agency A, Agency B, and Agency C, blahblahblah happened."

I think the awkwardness of the sentence is in using singular agencies rather than plural agencies, i.e.:

After collaboration among Agencies A, B, and C, blahblahblah happened.

StephanieFox · Mar 3, 2008

Among denotes a more vague concept of fluid value where the subject is included with the concept or the concepts are similar. E.g. "we lived among the lilies."

The lilies are not fluid, they are simply many. If the subject was houses, I could live between houses (a blue house and a red house) or among many houses in a gated community.

HeronW · Mar 4, 2008

in the 'honor among thieves' be visualized like honor in the center of a circle of thieves?, or at the least, the concept of honor on one side and 2 or more thieves on the other, putting the phrase in the midst of 3?

CutteRug · Mar 4, 2008

Oberon said:
TerzaRima said:

I think the awkwardness of the sentence is in using singular agencies rather than plural agencies, i.e.:

After collaboration among Agencies A, B, and C, blahblahblah happened.

Click to expand...

To me the 'among' goes more with the verb being used, rather than the number of entities involved. For example, it would be:

A collaboration between agencies.

and

A consensus among agencies.

Of course, that's just what sounds right to me. Take it for what it's worth.

As to this:

HeronW said:

in the 'honor among thieves' be visualized like honor in the center of a circle of thieves?, or at the least, the concept of honor on one side and 2 or more thieves on the other, putting the phrase in the midst of 3?

Click to expand...

Huh?

Between. Among. Discuss.

TerzaRima

Absinthe O'Malice

ColoradoGuy

I've seen worse.

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

blacbird

TerzaRima

Absinthe O'Malice

Flay

ErylRavenwell

ErylRavenwell

Marlys

Resist. Love. Go outside.

She_wulf

that's me

CutteRug

Oberon

StephanieFox

Maybull the Bulldog

HeronW

Down Under Fan

CutteRug