Too old fashioned?

bluntforcetrauma · Feb 25, 2008

My novel is set in the late 60's small town midwest. Most of the dialog comes from my upbringing at that time. Will it sound dated to readers?
I loved the movie Stand By Me. It was set in the 50's, yet the kids cussed like sailors. I don't believe it was normal for the time period.

We said a few hells and damns in the 60's but that was pretty much it.

What do you think?

Chasing the Horizon · Feb 25, 2008

My Dad and his parents and friends cussed like sailors growing up in a small town in the '50s and '60s, but that may not have been the case everywhere. I would just do whatever feels right for your characters. A lot of my characters are sailors, but some don't swear like them.

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 25, 2008

bluntforcetrauma said:
I loved the movie Stand By Me. It was set in the 50's, yet the kids cussed like sailors. I don't believe it was normal for the time period.

Well, the original story was written by Stephen King, who was a kid in a working-class Maine community in the 1950s. The screenplay was written by Bruce Evans and Raynold Gideon, who are King's contemporaries.

I assume that the language felt accurate to all of them. Just goes to show how different people's life experiences can be, I guess.

I don't think anyone would be put off by "not enough" vulgarity/obscenity/profanity. As long as you don't have people using inappropriate euphemisms ("Cheese and crackers!" said the hit man, as his shot went wild. "That gosh-darn poopyhead just had to duck. Oh, fudge!") it's all good.

If you have violent people using violent language, and it seems in keeping with the characters, I don't think it matters if they don't use certain words. "I hate him! That guy's one sick puppy!" is really just as strong as "I hate him! That guy's one sick {expletive}!"

bluntforcetrauma · Feb 25, 2008

I don't mind using expletives where necessary, but I grew up in the heartland, a small town boy's life. Not that we were saints, but the one kid who did constantly blow four letter words like mad was ostracised. He brought the gang down.

Mumut · Feb 25, 2008

I don't use them in my stories. I think it would reduce my sales. It's not just the expletives or whether they fit into the story, it's also the readers you want to read the book.

Kat1 · Feb 25, 2008

thats the beauty of writing, you get to chose are they the potty mouth type kids or the kids who like to express themselves differently. thats what will make your characters. are tough facing a train or running through fields after imaginary creatures. kids are determined to be adult like, but some are still too intimidated to speak like adult. you as the writer get to show who they are. I don't think it matters small town or big city or even time it's who they are. good luck

aruna · Feb 25, 2008

Boys and men cursed back then, but girls and women didn't. And men and boys didn't curse in the company of women. It was considered disrespectful. If a word did slip out and a woman was present, they would apologize. I think it would be important to make that clear in t a novel. To have females cursing in a 50s or 60s novel would be very jarring.

bluntforcetrauma · Feb 25, 2008

Mumut said:
I don't use them in my stories. I think it would reduce my sales. It's not just the expletives or whether they fit into the story, it's also the readers you want to read the book.

Kat1 said:
thats the beauty of writing, you get to chose are they the potty mouth type kids or the kids who like to express themselves differently. thats what will make your characters. are tough facing a train or running through fields after imaginary creatures. kids are determined to be adult like, but some are still too intimidated to speak like adult. you as the writer get to show who they are. I don't think it matters small town or big city or even time it's who they are. good luck

I'm very grateful for your input. I'm not prudish, I just don't want to give an air of falseness to the characters.

bluntforcetrauma · Feb 25, 2008

aruna said:
Boys and men cursed back then, but girls and women didn't. And men and boys didn't curse in the company of women. It was considered disrespectful. If a word did slip out and a woman was present, they would apologize. I think it would be important to make that clear in t a novel. To have females cursing in a 50s or 60s novel would be very jarring.

The majority kept a tight grip on the big mamajamas. I mean hell, damn,
p!ss, s.o.b. aren't even real cuss words. The boys in the story are better behaved around females and grown ups.

I choose to write about those times because I'm not too comfortable with the modern problems. And everytime I read a story and there's a cell phone or computer in it I want to scream. Dunno why.

TheIT · Feb 25, 2008

Stay true to the time period and the story you're trying to tell.

bluntforcetrauma · Feb 25, 2008

TheIT said:
Stay true to the time period and the story you're trying to tell.

I do. Thank you for the wisdom.

Fresie · Feb 26, 2008

I remember my feelings when I was reading a story and the writer used all the right slang and swear words we used to say at the time. I loved him! I realised I'd almost forgotten all those funny little expressions and now the writer had literally transposed me back to my school years.

I'd say, do it by all means!

loiterer · Feb 26, 2008

bluntforcetrauma said:
My novel is set in the late 60's small town midwest. Most of the dialog comes from my upbringing at that time. Will it sound dated to readers?

Nope. Readers adjust to the tone of a book pretty quickly.

You mention 'Stand By Me': that came out when I was 14 or so. I remember when I saw it I was initially amazed at the language--I couldn't believe they spoke like that back in the 1950's. Even as a 1980's kid, I had never heard the 'f' word spoken by a living human being, and certainly never said it myself.

Now, maybe it was more common in the USA (I'm Australian), but even these days, not all kids or adults swear (I still don't, at least, not in front of others!). So swearing or not swearing, or any other language issues, should not 'date' your book in the manner you refer to.

Jenan Mac · Feb 26, 2008

loiterer said:
Nope. Readers adjust to the tone of a book pretty quickly.

You mention 'Stand By Me': that came out when I was 14 or so. I remember when I saw it I was initially amazed at the language--I couldn't believe they spoke like that back in the 1950's. Even as a 1980's kid, I had never heard the 'f' word spoken by a living human being, and certainly never said it myself.

Now, maybe it was more common in the USA (I'm Australian), but even these days, not all kids or adults swear (I still don't, at least, not in front of others!). So swearing or not swearing, or any other language issues, should not 'date' your book in the manner you refer to.

The adults in my life (smallish city, Ohio, sixties) swore occasionally, except my grandmother, who swore like the proverbial drunken sailor. Most of the kids I know didn't, and if somebody let slip a "damn" or a "hell" (and nothing stronger), it was usually responded to with "ooooh! I'm gonna tell!" Shoot, we giggled in church when the preacher used them in context. Crap, shoot, dang, H-E-double-hockeysticks...that was about it.

It took boarding school in the seventies to perfect my talent for obscene language.

KTC · Feb 26, 2008

I grew up in a place where the kids in Stand By Me seemed a bit mild. But I am willing to read anything that's well written. I don't bother about stuff sounding dated, etc...If it's set in the 60s...make it sound like the 60s sounded for you and it will be authentic.

sheadakota · Feb 26, 2008

I grew up in the 60's. While my biggest cuss word was crap- my older brother(7 yrs my senior) used every one in the book. my older sister never did. But interesting enough my mother had the most vulgar mouth you could imagine. I remember hearing everything but the F bomb come from her mouth- Now my dad- I never heard swear at all.

I had friends my age who did and those that didn't. This was all in a very small, very rural area.

My point is, I think anything you decide would be acceptable as long as you remain true to your characters.

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 26, 2008

I really don't think this is an issue. Nobody ever noticed the absence of expletives. Euphemisms, on the other hand, stand out like a sore thumb. (Norman Mailer, I'm looking at you!!)

Vomaxx · Feb 26, 2008

I know I have posted this quote a couple of times, but it seems appropriate here too: probably the best-known and best-selling book about sailors in WWII is Herman Wouk's Caine Mutiny, and he says this in a foreword:

"One comment on style: The general obscenity and blasphemy of ship-board talk have gone almost wholly unrecorded, This good-humored billingsgate is largely monotonous and not significant, mere verbal punctuation of a sort, and its appearance in print annoys some readers. The traces that remain are necessary where occurring."

Of course, Wouk's book was published in 1951; perhaps today some readers are less annoyed by profanity (although I'm sure some still are).

johnnysannie · Feb 26, 2008

KTC said:
I grew up in a place where the kids in Stand By Me seemed a bit mild. But I am willing to read anything that's well written. I don't bother about stuff sounding dated, etc...If it's set in the 60s...make it sound like the 60s sounded for you and it will be authentic.

I grew up in both a place where the kids in "Stand By Me" language seemed mild and in the 1960's so in my opinion, the use of strong profanity would be both warranted and typical.

But apparently - based on this and other similar discussions - use of profanity varied (and still varies) from place to place, between one person and another, so the best you can do is to be true to the story that YOU want to tell!

ishtar'sgate · Feb 26, 2008

bluntforcetrauma said:
My novel is set in the late 60's small town midwest. Most of the dialog comes from my upbringing at that time. Will it sound dated to readers?
I loved the movie Stand By Me. It was set in the 50's, yet the kids cussed like sailors. I don't believe it was normal for the time period.

We said a few hells and damns in the 60's but that was pretty much it.

What do you think?

I know what you mean. I love the movie, "A Christmas Story" and we watch it every year. The only thing that rings false to me is the school teacher's "Oh my God!" when she looks out the window to see Flick stuck by his tongue to a post. Teachers did not talk like that in front of students in those days. It wouldn't have happened. How they spoke at home or outside of school was another thing but not in school. If you want a book that sounds authentic, use language that feels authentic to you. If it sounds off to you it's likely going to sound off to your reader.
Linnea

sassandgroove · Feb 26, 2008

I'd say if it rings true to you it will ring true to the reader.

DWSTXS · Feb 26, 2008

I grew up in the 60's and the girls cussed just as much as the guys, which was a lot. Mostly we did it to be 'cool' and we thought it made us appear older. Also, we glommed onto all the slang of the time, and used it every chance we had.

Now that I think of it, we over-used it, as I can remember teachers and grown-ups telling us that EVERY word didn't have to be 'groovy' or 'cool' or some other hippie-slang or profanity, but that didn't stop us. No.

We were too cool for school.

aruna · Feb 26, 2008

DWSTXS said:
I grew up in the 60's and the girls cussed just as much as the guys, which was a lot. Mostly we did it to be 'cool' and we thought it made us appear older. Also, we glommed onto all the slang of the time, and used it every chance we had.
.

Yes, in the 60's it all began to change. I remember distinctly how brave I and my friends felt when we said our first SHIT. We giggled like anything, and then began saying it all the time. After a while we began to add even stronger words and felt like the Queens of Cool.

aruna · Feb 26, 2008

But I suppose it made a diffrerence where you were.I turned 10 in 1961 and I was at boarding school in England. Not a curse word the whole time I was there. We had a dictionary at the time and used to look up words like "bosom£ and "breast" and thought that was TERRIBLY daring and funny. Also Penis has us convulsed in laughter.

The S and F words came towards the end of that decade, when I was about 16 or 17.

funidream · Feb 26, 2008

I spent my youth (late 60s and early 70s) in a big town in the midwest - the south side of Chicago - and we all, female and male, swore worse than sailors, and could do so in two languages.

Too old fashioned?

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