Bears - how dangerous are they?

Menyanthana · Feb 25, 2008

Would it be possible for a bear to cause real harm to an adult man who is a skillful fighter? (With a sword or a bow. It is fantasy

)
And how could a bear become aggressive enough to do so? (Without the man attacking. I read that bears do not taste well, so it would be stupid to attack one)

Prawn · Feb 25, 2008

Yes. I suggest you check out the movie Grizzly Man.

Kathie Freeman · Feb 25, 2008

And how could a bear become aggressive enough to do so?

Just get between her and her cub!!!

I read that bears do not taste well (I think you mean taste good)

Some people do eat bear meat, but I think not very many.

Miguelito · Feb 25, 2008

Yes. Watch "Grizzly Man."

When it comes to grizzlies, if it wants you dead, you're going to die. Good luck defending yourself with a sword. Its skull is too thick for most bullets to penetrate. I imagine a sword or an arrow wouldn't do much better (unless there's some kind of magic behind it).

A lot of the time, if they attack, it's just territorial. It may feint a charge. Or, if it's beating the living hell out of you, it doesn't want to kill you, just exert its dominance.

You might be able to fight off a black bear. You'd have to already be big and make yourself enough of a problem that it thought you weren't worth the while killing.

You're really screwed if you're attacked by a polar bear. It doesn't worry about dominance, just finding food.

WildScribe · Feb 25, 2008

Prawn said:
Yes. I suggest you check out the movie Grizzly Man.

I was going to say that! Funny, in a sick, sad sort of way.

Menyanthana · Feb 25, 2008

Kathie Freeman said:
And how could a bear become aggressive enough to do so?

Just get between her and her cub!!!

My MC is too intelligent to do that on purpose. And he knows the forests...

At the moment, I have a version where he is sleeping, the bear is attracted by food and goes looking for more...
And then the hero awakens, tries to get away, the bear attacks him...and so on.
As the bear is killed in the end and I do not want to have orphan cubs in my story...there can be no cub.
Any other reasons for a bear to attack a person?

@Prawn: As far as I understand it, the man who lived with the grizzlies was not prepared to fighting...I am perfectly aware of the fact, that an average bear is able to kill an average man.

Edit: Okay, it seems as if bears are far too dangerous...hm...I want my MC to be wounded, but not too badly.
Thank you for the answers

Horseshoes · Feb 25, 2008

A bear becomes aggressive enough to harm you because: you surprised it; it felt you threatened it, its children or its territoy; it's hungry, ill or injured.
They taste fine if they've been eating berries, not fish and weren't on a major adrenaline burn when they died.

Bear can certainly take a dude with a sword and a bow, but then, the right dude can take the bear w/ a bow. (Sword sounds too close for fun.)

Don Allen · Feb 25, 2008

Even a little ol'brown bear can kill a man if provoked, rogue males can be aggressive but most bears out foraging tend to avoid confrontations unless as stated their are little ones involved. To be honest, if an outdoorsmen was confronted by a bear he would know to remain perfectly still and let the bear do his thing, I think it would be rare for a unprovoked attack. In the case of the grizzly man, the guy knew that this rogue bear had started hanging around the pack and if he would have used common sense he would have left the area.

aka eraser · Feb 25, 2008

Most healthy animals will not attack a human unless provoked - and that includes bears. (And certainly, coming between a sow and her cubs is considered a grave provocation indeed.)

99% of bears want nothing to do with humans and will avoid them if they can. If you want a most believable scenario, you should have the bear be injured, weakened, and therefore acting out of character (not avoiding man.) Broken, infected teeth or an injured limb are often the reason for attacks on humans. Illness and injury can make their normal prey too difficult to kill.

A weakened animal would also add credence to your hero's ability to kill it with a sword.

Menyanthana · Feb 25, 2008

aka eraser said:
Most healthy animals will not attack a human unless provoked - and that includes bears. (And certainly, coming between a sow and her cubs is considered a grave provocation indeed.)

99% of bears want nothing to do with humans and will avoid them if they can. If you want a most believable scenario, you should have the bear be injured, weakened, and therefore acting out of character (not avoiding man.) Broken, infected teeth or an injured limb are often the reason for attacks on humans. Illness and injury can make their normal prey too difficult to kill.

A weakened animal would also add credence to your hero's ability to kill it with a sword.

Okay, thank you, that might work...I have two men to fight against the bear, but the second one wakes up later.

What kind of wounds would the bear's attack probably cause? (Given the bear doesn't manage to break the hero's neck at once. At the moment I have described some deep scratches...is that possible? Or would there at least be broken bones?)

Don Allen · Feb 25, 2008

Bears bite and tear, holding down prey with from claws and stripping skin and meat from the flesh, positivly gruesome. but that's when eating. In a battle the bear would more than likely go for the neck, a can imagine a big gaping neck wound with the carodic artery pumping blood gushing all over the place. Damn, I'm hungry now....

Appalachian Writer · Feb 25, 2008

A healthy bear can run up to 35 miles an hour, has six to eight inch claws, and the pressure from a bite can rank up to 2000 PSI. Your swordsman will not come out of this battle, even with a sick bear, unscathed. His sword would have to be extraordinarily long, a broadsword or something, and even with multiple punctures, I'm sure he'd have to penetrate the bear's heart in order to successfully do away with the animal. Even a black bear can stand up to six feet and a grizzly more than that. Perhaps the animal might do itself in in a more believable way by rearing to full height and then falling on your MC's upturned blade. It would be easier to pierce the heart in that manner, and there could be some interesting efforts to dislodge the dead animal afterwards. Bears are quite heavy.

C.bronco · Feb 25, 2008

I recommend watching The Edge with Anthony Hopkins (great movie). I haven't heard about the black bears in my area attacking adults, but I do hear about them attacking dogs and small children.
When I lived in the Poconos, some vacationers fed the bears, or left their garbage cans open. They would return the next season to find that a bear or bears had broken into their homes and ransacked them while in search of food.

Menyanthana · Feb 25, 2008

Appalachian Writer said:
A healthy bear can run up to 35 miles an hour, has six to eight inch claws, and the pressure from a bite can rank up to 2000 PSI.

Ahh...wounds caused by eight inch claws sound interesting.

But regarding your opinions, I think a bear is far too dangerous...after all, I want my characters wounded, not dead.
(And there is no possibility to take them to a hospital)
It just fitted so nicely, as the main character left food at his camping place, which has to be punished...

C.bronco · Feb 25, 2008

Then choose a large buck. They can do a lot of damage.

DWSTXS · Feb 25, 2008

Appalachian Writer said:
A healthy bear can run up to 35 miles an hour, has six to eight inch claws, and the pressure from a bite can rank up to 2000 PSI. Your swordsman will not come out of this battle, even with a sick bear, unscathed. His sword would have to be extraordinarily long, a broadsword or something, and even with multiple punctures, I'm sure he'd have to penetrate the bear's heart in order to successfully do away with the animal. Even a black bear can stand up to six feet and a grizzly more than that. Perhaps the animal might do itself in in a more believable way by rearing to full height and then falling on your MC's upturned blade. It would be easier to pierce the heart in that manner, and there could be some interesting efforts to dislodge the dead animal afterwards. Bears are quite heavy.

exactly.
If you are talking about a one on one fight. No man could take a bear. If he's charging you, you'd have to get extremely lucky and pierce his heart before he slammed into you. And he would too. If he's running at 30 mph or some such, and you were close enough to pierce his heart with that sword, he'd still run you over before he died. Even then, he'd still probably swipe you a couple times with those razor sharp claws, and then if you were lucky enough to still be alive...you'd probably be bleeding profusely, have several broken bones and be unable to hike out of whatever wilderness area you were in before you died. Not to mention if he did slice you with those claws, septicema would set in very quickly and finish you off.

They can outrun, outclimb, and out swim any man. They outweigh you 4 to 1, maybe 6 or 8 to one. If he's pissed, and you're in his way. You are dead meat.

Magic swords? that's just BS.

DWSTXS · Feb 25, 2008

Menyanthana said:
Ahh...wounds caused by eight inch claws sound interesting.

But regarding your opinions, I think a bear is far too dangerous...after all, I want my characters wounded, not dead.
(And there is no possibility to take them to a hospital)
It just fitted so nicely, as the main character left food at his camping place, which has to be punished...

Give the character a snake-bite. It hurts. It would swell up like crazy. Make it hard for them to walk. Plus, thye wouldn't know if the snake injected the venom, so they still have to get to a hospital asap. I had a friend that got bit on the finger by a rattler in a woodpile. He didn't die, but said it was so much pain he wanted to.

Menyanthana · Feb 25, 2008

DWSTXS said:
Give the character a snake-bite. It hurts. It would swell up like crazy. Make it hard for them to walk. Plus, thye wouldn't know if the snake injected the venom, so they still have to get to a hospital asap. I had a friend that got bit on the finger by a rattler in a woodpile. He didn't die, but said it was so much pain he wanted to.

It is fantasy. There are no hospitals. They could go back to the village of the MC; but that would be boring...after all, they just started. (That is why it is probably a stupid idea to confront them with a bear. Then again...who wants to read a fantasy book where the most dangerous enemy is a bear?)
And I have to get the two characters to work together. I liked the idea that main character is wounded, his life is hin danger...then he is saved by the other character (who hates him, but has to keep him alive) who then also is wounded, and after the fight is over has to ask the main character to take care of the wound.

Okay, I could use a giant spider or so...but after reading some books, I consider real animals to be more interesting. Even if it is more work to describe them correctly.

Tsu Dho Nimh · Feb 25, 2008

Menyanthana said:
Would it be possible for a bear to cause real harm to an adult man who is a skillful fighter? (With a sword or a bow. It is fantasy )
And how could a bear become aggressive enough to do so? (Without the man attacking. I read that bears do not taste well, so it would be stupid to attack one)

Bears, depending on what they have been eating, can be delicious. Tastes like and can be cooked like pork, even to smoking it and having bear ham.

A mother bear with cubs is the most dangerous animal in the woods, because if she decides you are a threat to the cubs, she will do her level best to kill you. You will hear a grumbling snarl (maybe) and have a 400-900 pound animal charge straight towards you, knock you to the ground like you were a rag doll, pick you up in her jaws and shake you like a terrier with a rat. They are a lot faster than they look, and extremely strong. They flip over logs with one paw! They rip cars open to get at food inside! They can break the neck of a moose or elk with one swing of the paw.

If it's a grizzly, photo show that they "paddlefoot" as they charge ... swinging their heavily clawed front feet out to the side and then forward, in sort of a reaping motion, to maximize the chances of nabbing you.

As for a bear being able to cause real harm to a man armed ONLY with a sword or bow ... the man's best chance is to use the arrows and poke (not shoot, hold in hand and poke) the bear's eyes.

Bears are heavily covered in fat and fur, and you would have to be really lucky, because unless you manage to disable the bear with the first arrow or stroke, it's going to be an enraged wounded bear and then you are really in trouble. Hunters have died because they underestimated how hard bears are to kill.

My father, who was an expert shot and skilled tracker, used a 30.06 rifle with high velocity loads for bear hunting, and even then waited for a clear shot at the heart, from the side, from a reasonably safe distance.

Menyanthana · Feb 25, 2008

Tsu Dho Nimh said:
Bears, depending on what they have been eating, can be delicious. Tastes like and can be cooked like pork, even to smoking it and having bear ham.

Interesting. It depends on what the bear has eaten? You need to chose the right time to kill them, then?

Tsu Dho Nimh · Feb 25, 2008

Menyanthana said:
At the moment, I have a version where he is sleeping, the bear is attracted by food and goes looking for more...

Edit: Okay, it seems as if bears are far too dangerous...hm...I want my MC to be wounded, but not too badly.
Thank you for the answers

Bears are prone to rip open tents and "taste" the campers, especially if there is food in the tent, sometimes try to drag them off. When that happens, you have deep puncture wounds on the shoulders from the fangs, torn scalp and some broken bones. Their claws aren't sharp, but they rip from blunt force - actually nastier wounds than a mountain lion leaves in terms of damage.

The other character can wake up at the fight and either drive off the bear - they don't like food that fights back, and you can rout them and force them to drop their prey if you attack them with a lot of noise.

No need to kill it ... as soon as the second character joins the fight, it will drop him and run. Carnivores can't risk getting wounded, so they abandon the field and gpo looking for easier meals.

"What kind of wounds would the bear's attack probably cause? (Given the bear doesn't manage to break the hero's neck at once. At the moment I have described some deep scratches...is that possible? Or would there at least be broken bones?)"

els · Feb 25, 2008

I like the buck idea. Their hooves are very sharp and can do a lot of damage on someone (people who hit deer with their cars often make the mistake of going to check on the deer, instead of keeping a safe distance- they can get pretty badly sliced up by a thrashing deer), as well as their antlers. Bucks in rut have been known to attack people. Or what about a moose, or a wild boar?
Bears will also attack if they are surprised and feel cornered- even experienced woodsmen can make that mistake. This is why hikers out west will often carry a staff with a bell on it. The bell will wake a sleeping bear and they will get out of the area before the hikers come anywhere near them.

Menyanthana · Feb 25, 2008

Tsu Dho Nimh said:
Bears are prone to rip open tents and "taste" the campers, especially if there is food in the tent, sometimes try to drag them off. When that happens, you have deep puncture wounds on the shoulders from the fangs, torn scalp and some broken bones. Their claws aren't sharp, but they rip from blunt force - actually nastier wounds than a mountain lion leaves in terms of damage.

The other character can wake up at the fight and either drive off the bear - they don't like food that fights back, and you can rout them and force them to drop their prey if you attack them with a lot of noise.

No need to kill it ... as soon as the second character joins the fight, it will drop him and run. Carnivores can't risk getting wounded, so they abandon the field and gpo looking for easier meals.

Mhh...okay. So, it would be okay to have one character wounded slightly while sleeping (some deep scratches at the shoulder maybe) and then the other character awakes, shouts loudly and causes the bear to run away?
Would that be logical?

Tsu Dho Nimh · Feb 25, 2008

Menyanthana said:
Interesting. It depends on what the bear has eaten? You need to chose the right time to kill them, then?

If you have that luxury, yes. The best time is in the fall, after they have been eating windfall apples for a week or two. Worst time is in the early spring, right after they leave hibernation because they are thin and the meat stinks. It would be out of desperation to shoot one then.

My father knew which orchards they were likely to be in, or would get a call from a farmer who noticed bear feces in the orchard and didn't want them moving on to the sheep pens and the chickens. He would figure out the trail they were using, sit where he had a clear, safe shot and wait for the bears to walk into the firing zone. It was usually one shot, one instantly dead bear. No drama, this was hunting for food.

We'd skin and butcher the bear (they look uncannily like humans after the fur and fat is off), render the fat for use like lard, and eat the meat or give oit to peoplewho needed it. Fur and claws went to people who used them ceremonially or for rugs. Skulls went to the Fish & Game guys for age and health determination ... nothing was left of the bear when we were done.

reigningcatsndogs · Feb 25, 2008

When I worked in Banff National Park, we had both black bears and grizzleys. It was important to know the difference between the two. Under normal circumstances, a black bear with do anything to avoid confrontation. He will be drawn by food, he may get scrappy, but typically he will back down and run from you if you appear larger or more aggressive (unless she is protecting her young or feels totally trapped).
A grizzley bear will not back down if he feels threatened. If you run or try appear aggresive at all, you're in trouble. We have seen then actually shaking trees with people in them when they are mad, and a large male can knock a tree down.

They are possessive of their territories, the men are possessive of sows, the moms are possessive of babies, they will scrounge in anything to get food, and they hate to be startled (hence the bear bells on hiker's boots, or hikers will sing or make a lot of nosie so they don't startle one. Most will leave if they hear you coming). Like Eraser said, an unjured black bear would be the best bet. They are unpredictable, would try to fight, but depending on the injury would probably be unable to do much damage. If ithas a broken jaw (which does happen) the animal would be weak from not being able to eat, would be in pain, would not be able to bite.

mary (who has actualy kicked a black bear in the butt when it was in her garbage cans, and watched it run away, but who would never do that to a grizzley bear because she would have to change her name to stumpy).

ETA: and bear meat can be very tasty but is tough and gamey if not marinated or prepared properly.

Bears - how dangerous are they?

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