Help with my Christian character

[Shady Lane]

Hi guys!

So my main character in the ms I'm working on now is Christian, the son of a (rather liberal) pastor. He's also a seventeen year old boy. He's been slightly immoral in the past--drinking, sex, nothing awful--but never did it as part of some big 'turning away from God' thing. He's very quiet, very respectful, but not repressed; he just has a generally positive attitude and is happy with his life.

He also has HIV...but that's not really important now.

So he doesn't curse, definitely. But where I am right now in the ms, he sees a boy pull a knife on a pharmacist.

In the version I have now, he says "Oh my God."

I need to know how out of line this is for a Christian. I know there's that whole Lord's name in vain thing, but how many people follow that, particularly teenagers? Does using God's name this way automatically mark one as disrespectful, or a non-believer? I don't really have much of an alternative for him...he's definitely not the Oh my gosh type.

Thanks in advance!

[ishtar'sgate]

You could avoid the difficulty altogether. Is he going to try and stop the attack? If he is, you could simply have him holler "No!" and lunge for the guy wielding the knife. If he's not going to do anything you could have him suck in his breath and back off. Or something else. There are plenty of ways to write the scene without having to resort to a phrase that may be questionable for the character. That's what I'd do if I wasn't sure.
Linnea

[JoNightshade]

The sex and drinking bit would be more surprising to me than the "oh my God." (Mainly the sex.)

The prohibition is against using the Lord's name in vain. To me, this means using it casually in a disrespectful manner, thoughtlessly. If something shocking actually is happening and you actually are calling out to God, "Oh my God" is entirely appropriate and not disrespectful. For instance, if I found out someone I loved had died or was in an accident, I would say "Oh my God!"

[Shady Lane]

The sex and drinking bit would be more surprising to me than the "oh my God." (Mainly the sex.)

I know. Don't worry about that. I take care of it. ;) I just wanted you to get a feel for his character. That he's not a saint.

The prohibition is against using the Lord's name in vain. To me, this means using it casually in a disrespectful manner, thoughtlessly. If something shocking actually is happening and you actually are calling out to God, "Oh my God" is entirely appropriate and not disrespectful. For instance, if I found out someone I loved had died or was in an accident, I would say "Oh my God!"

Okay, sick. Thanks!

[mauricesempine]

I know tons of older Christian who say "My Lord" and "My God" without thinking anything about it. My mother considered it Taking the Lord's name in vain, and that's how she taught us. I don't cuss or curse, but I'm pretty unusual for a Christian man (or woman). It's just the way I was raised.

We've had a Baptist preacher who would say "Lord" in a non-spiritual sense. That's just the way he was raised. I seem to remember him saying "My God" as well.

I say let the reader adapt to how your character was raised or you want to portray him.

Mac

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Snipped...

So he doesn't curse, definitely. But where I am right now in the ms, he sees a boy pull a knife on a pharmacist.

In the version I have now, he says "Oh my God."

I need to know how out of line this is for a Christian. I know there's that whole Lord's name in vain thing, but how many people follow that, particularly teenagers? Does using God's name this way automatically mark one as disrespectful, or a non-believer? I don't really have much of an alternative for him...he's definitely not the Oh my gosh type.

Thanks in advance!


Hi Shady,

In my own particular case, I've cursed most of my life, and I only recently started to calm that down a bit. I think when a person is constantly surrounded by people who do that, they're bound to at least be tempted to do it.

And there is always the belief, in some people, that saying, "Oh my God" is not cursing His Name. I wouldn't say it, now, but when I was a teenager, I wouldn't have thought much about it.

So really, the character can be anything he needs to be, by my estimation. If he has to curse, then he has to curse. Let the story -- and the character -- dictate what he'll do. :)

I hope this helps you out. Best wishes with the book.


--Sean


ETA: Oh, I forgot to mention: I do every once-in-a-while, say things like "Good God" when I'm not thinking. I don't like to do it, but I do slip up quite often where that saying is concerned. :(

[Shady Lane]

Thanks so much for your help, guys! It really does sound okay with his voice, but I wanted to keep it realistic with his character. So thank you!

[jannawrites]

I think another one or two posters said something similar... In a situation like that, I'd not think "Oh my God" to be inappropriate or uncommon. Though I never use His name in vain, I will call out to Him like you've mentioned, in the midst of a scary or heartwrenched moment. You could clear it up for your reader by giving an explanation after the dialogue:

"Oh my God," he exclaimed in an incomplete prayer for protection. (Or whatever.)

Good luck! :)

[Plot Device]

An essay I wrote last year about cinematic depictions of pastors and their families:

http://sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-to-portray-christian-minister-in.html



How to Portray a Christian Minister in a Film

Rule #1 - Never allow him to be a man of either intelligence or education.
All Christian ministers are grossly lacking in both. This is an undeniable fact. If they had either, they would never have chosen this profession.

Rule #2 - He must not exhibit a coherent or contemporary command of the English language.
His conversational English needs to denote low inteligence and/or poor education (see Rule #1), or else needs to indicate a divergent personality disorder such as megalomania. The one exception to this rule is that a Christian minister CAN be a good public speaker with effective conversational skills ONLY if he is a smooth-talking, money-grubbing scheister.

Rule #3 - He cannot be logical.
He cannot have ever had formal training in logic or philosophy or the most basic principles of debate. So when he is engaged in a disagreement with someone, he will default to shouting, bullying, or patronzing.

Rule #4 - He cannot have a character arc that involves positive personal change.
Christian ministers are not about change. They are about static, stubborn, unbudgability. So either the character must remain flat and unchanging, or he must eventually be his own undoing. The only acceptable POSITIVE character arc that a minister can go through would be if he realizes his religion is a sham and chooses by film's end to abandon his faith and profession completely.

Rule #5 - He needs to have serious sexual problems.
Religious leaders are uptight about sex. And therefore suffer from severe sexual dysfunctions, and probably also harbor many closet fetishes, possibly even criminally deviant ones. His relationship with his wife needs to be problematic on many levels because of this, and his children will also show evidence of sexual maladjustment. The overriding rule of thumb is that it's impossible for a Christian minister to be cool about sex, to have a healthy sex life with his spouse, to have a sense of humor about sex, or in any way be comfortable with it, either in himself or those around him. Be forwarned that any movie script which has a Christian minister that exhibits any form of positive sexual health will be promptly rejected and an immediate rewrite demanded.

Rule #6 - He must be intolerant of personal individuality and cultural diversity.
The Christian religion mandates that their ministers push an agenda of assimilation and ethnocentricity. They ardently strive to for cultural monopolization and homogenization. They are the religious equivalent of the Borg. All actions and dialogue of any Christian minister must exemplify their disdain for freedom of expression, and a lack of openness to alternative cultures.

Rule #7 - His tastes and overall personality must be boring, limited, and unoriginal.

CLOTHING: His profesional wardrobe should be full of dark suits. His casual wardrobe should be flannel plaid shirts and cardigan sweaters. Think "Land's End" but out of date by 15 years. His wife always only ever wears dresses, she probably sews them herself, and they will always be nauseatingly flowery prints that look like they were made from old tablecloths or bedspreads. His sons will likewise wear flannel shirts, and they will wet-comb their hair down flat and part it on the side. His daughters also wear dresses, sport long hair and no makeup, and have a hollow, frightened look in their eyes. Sleep wear for the men/sons will always be classic button-shirted pajamas with pants. The wife/daughters will sleep in long-sleeved, high-necked, cotton, white, non-romantic night gowns.

READING: He reads almost nothing but the Bible and maybe Reader's Digest. If he bothers to read fiction, it's only Christian fiction. He has never touched a classic in his life. He refuses to read news magazines like Time or Newsweek because they all support "the Liberal agenda." Maybe he reads the local town newspaper, but only to grumble and disagree with it. And since he's neither intelligent nor educated, he has no clue about Greek, Latin, or Hebrew.

HOME DECOR: Always drab and lacking in life. Furniture should be cheap knock-offs of early-American and/or colonial with plenty of finials and dark wood. If there's any artwork on the walls, it'll be just pastoral stuff or flowers. Darkened or yellowing wall-paper is perfect. If the floors are wooden, they will lack shine. Carpets are worn and uninteresting. Books anywhere in the house are rare to non-existent.

MUSIC: Of course he listens to gospel music, and maybe the classics (but he won't actually understand the classics). Secular music is of the Devil, so neither he nor his wife and children listen to it. There is probably either a piano or an organ in his house, and his wife and daughters play it. If they ever play any non-religious piano music, it's old yellowed sheet music from the 1920's.

FILM AND TELEVISION: Hollywood is a stronghold of Satan, so movie-going is forbidden. There MIGHT be a TV in the house, but only to watch the news. VCR's and DVD players are invitations to porn, so they're not allowed. And no video games either.

COMPUTERS: If he has a computer in his house, he uses it to write his sermons. He is NOT internet savvy. Neither are his wife and kids.

SPORTS: Wholesome outdoor activities are walking, fishing, and playing golf. Boys can play baseball and football. Girls can play basketball, but only if they wear skirts. All sports must be separated by gender (no co-ed sports allowed).

FOOD: Dinner is served up by his wife every night at 5:30 sharp. And it'll be some variation on meat 'n potatoes. Maybe we can allow for a pasta dish that remotely resembles Italian cuisine. But no Christian minister would ever eat Mexian, Thai, or sushi.

Rule #8 - The bulk of his time is spent writing and rehearsing sermons.
He never ministers to people on an individual, one-on-one level. Never interacts with members of his congregation outside of the obligatory round of hand shaking outside the church after a Sunday service. He never does counseling sessions. He never makes house calls. He never visits the sick. He never visits those in prison. He never meets with local community leaders--unless he's a "bad guy" minister who is covertly scheming on some political level with/against those other leaders. Aside from weddings, funerals, and the ocassional baptism (which is always an INFANT baptism) he's very self-absorbed and leads a totally insular life.

Rule #9 - His sermons are always of the "fire and brimstone" variety.
He must employ a pulpit pounding, rafter-rattling, fist-waving style of preaching, even though less than 20% of all American pastors/preachers fall into this category. And the congregation always responds with loud affirmations of "AMEN!" and "PREACH IT!" even though the vast majority of American congregations observe polite and attentive silence during a sermon. And during the worship music portion of a service, the congregation will worship in outrageous strains of Pentecostalism, including dancing, jumping, arm-waving, speaking in tongues, and getting slain in the spirit, even though less than 20% of American church-goers engage in such displays of Charismata.

[jannawrites]

An essay I wrote last year about cinematic depictions of pastors and their families:

http://sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-to-portray-christian-minister-in.html

I'm very taken aback, almost offended, by this. Few of the ministers in my life have fallen within these guidelines, and I find them inappropriate. And I can think of several examples in literature, Father Tim of Jan Karon's Mitford books being the foremost, that would negate the points in your essay.

[Plot Device]

I'm very taken aback, almost offended, by this. Few of the ministers in my life have fallen within these guidelines, and I find them inappropriate. And I can think of several examples in literature, Father Tim of Jan Karon's Mitford books being the foremost, that would negate the points in your essay.

My essay is a satire which rails against Hollywood's narrow-mindedness toward American Christianity.

[jannawrites]

My essay is a satire which rails against Hollywood's narrow-mindedness toward American Christianity.

Well, golly, why didn't you say it was a satire? ;) I very nearly asked if you'd meant it to be serious (because it was so extreme), but I had enough trouble getting out the words I posted as it was. Whew. :)

[Provrb1810meggy]

I'm a Christian teenager, and I know Christian teenagers, and I, along with these many teens, say, "Oh my god." We don't mean it as using his name as vein; to us, it's just a phrase ingrained in our teen culture.

Whether or not this is right, I suppose, isn't the point.

[Plot Device]

Well, golly, why didn't you say it was a satire? ;) I very nearly asked if you'd meant it to be serious (because it was so extreme), but I had enough trouble getting out the words I posted as it was. Whew. :)


:D

[girlyswot]

Hi guys!

So my main character in the ms I'm working on now is Christian, the son of a (rather liberal) pastor. He's also a seventeen year old boy. He's been slightly immoral in the past--drinking, sex, nothing awful--but never did it as part of some big 'turning away from God' thing. He's very quiet, very respectful, but not repressed; he just has a generally positive attitude and is happy with his life.

He also has HIV...but that's not really important now.

So he doesn't curse, definitely. But where I am right now in the ms, he sees a boy pull a knife on a pharmacist.

In the version I have now, he says "Oh my God."

I need to know how out of line this is for a Christian. I know there's that whole Lord's name in vain thing, but how many people follow that, particularly teenagers? Does using God's name this way automatically mark one as disrespectful, or a non-believer? I don't really have much of an alternative for him...he's definitely not the Oh my gosh type.

Thanks in advance!

It depends. ;)

It depends where the story is set and when. It depends what kind of church he's been brought up in - is this Southern Baptist, or Roman Catholic, for instance? 'Christian' is just such a broad description that it's hard to know what you mean by that. Some Christian circles would heavily frown on 'Oh my God' because it's the Lord's name - almost worse than other kinds of swearing. But in others, no one would bat an eyelid.

I think a good thing would be to work out the nature of the boy's community and church and then you can evaluate his actions against those. If he's your MC, then you probably need to do this sort of world building anyway, since it will play such an important part in his characterisation.

[benbradley]

Hi guys!
...
In the version I have now, he says "Oh my God."

I need to know how out of line this is for a Christian. I know there's that whole Lord's name in vain thing, but how many people follow that, particularly teenagers? Does using God's name this way automatically mark one as disrespectful, or a non-believer? I don't really have much of an alternative for him...he's definitely not the Oh my gosh type.

Thanks in advance!

It depends. ;)
...
I think a good thing would be to work out the nature of the boy's community and church and then you can evaluate his actions against those. If he's your MC, then you probably need to do this sort of world building anyway, since it will play such an important part in his characterisation.
Shady's last words, "he's definitely not the Oh my gosh type," reminds me that some Christians even consider using euphemisms for God to be taking His name in vain. My aunt was a devout Christian (Baptist, if this makes a difference or helps explain). At about age seven I was at her house reading Popular Mechanics (her brother subscribed) and I saw something I hadn't seen before, and in amazement I said "go-lly" (much like TV character Gomer Pyle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gomer_Pyle) would say "well, gooooo-lly!"), and my aunt said "Dont' say that" and not understanding, I asked "Why not?" She only said "It's not nice." But many years later I learned that golly was a euphemism for God (I did NOT know this until, I dunno, my late teens at least), I remembered the incident, and understood that she heard me as taking The Lord's Name in vain.

And there are several other such euplemisms: gosh, as Shady used, and gee as a euphemism for Jesus. There are surely more, but I can't think of them. Oh, here's one that's euphemistic cussing, "dad burn it." Googling that brings up a few more:
http://www.tngenweb.org/franklin/franfolk.htm#exclamations

[III]

Christians shouldn't use satire.

[Roger J Carlson]

Christians shouldn't use satire.or irony.

[Roger J Carlson]

Lots of good answers here and I can't contribute much except that Christians vary as much as any other group of people. So there isn't one set of do's and don'ts for creating a Christian character. Like you would with any character, you should avoid cliche and be consistant.

[TerzaRima]

Shady, the other thing to consider is that people who are scared or in the grip of some strong emotion may curse like sailors despite their creed or training. You could use a God inflected curse to show just how much this incident disturbs him.

[Plot Device]

Christians shouldn't use satire.

or irony.

You're both woefully incorrect.

::ETA::

Oh, you guys! :e2thud: You got me! :flag:



(I'll shut up now.) :e2zipped:

[Shady Lane]

Okay, guys, thank you so much!

Plot Device--no worries. My pastor is definitely not an idiot, is seriously supportive of his HIV-positive son, and his sermons are mostly about breaking free of society and traveling west...

[Soccer Mom]

Just adding to the "it depends" chorus. I'm so helpful. There are a lot of people whom it doesn't bother to say. It does bother me to say it. But I have no problem with the F-bomb or shit or damn, etc...

And I'm a dork because I actually say "OMG" sometimes. Yes, I say the letters and not the words.

Your friend the spaz.

[james1611]

You could avoid the difficulty altogether. Is he going to try and stop the attack? If he is, you could simply have him holler "No!" and lunge for the guy wielding the knife. If he's not going to do anything you could have him suck in his breath and back off. Or something else. There are plenty of ways to write the scene without having to resort to a phrase that may be questionable for the character. That's what I'd do if I wasn't sure.
Linnea

I would agree...there are plenty of ways to get around writing the scene that way. Lots of shocking things happen in my novels and none of it involves taking the Lord's name in vain or having my believing characters involved in anything sinful...unless of course that happens to be the issue needing to be resolved in their life :)
...but then, it's never dealt with in a way that might promote sinful behavior, but encourage repentance.

James

[C. L. Richardson]

Plot Device - That would be really funny if it wasn't so true! It's sad how society thinks of us. I'm out to change that, at least in the minds of young people, with my WIP.

As for the "OMG" thing.. Personally I would avoid that phrasing unless the character was actually crying out to God. When I read Christian fiction I expect a certain "cleanness" that is impossible to find in secular works.. I find it refreshing.. But that's just me. :)

[heyjude]

C. L., I so agree! I would be disappointed to find God's name taken in vain in a Christian book. I HATE picking up a book by a favorite (secular) author and having it littered with Jesus' name. And clearly not in prayer.

[girlyswot]

C. L., I so agree! I would be disappointed to find God's name taken in vain in a Christian book. I HATE picking up a book by a favorite (secular) author and having it littered with Jesus' name. And clearly not in prayer.

I don't think the OP is writing Christian fiction. Just a book that happens to contain a Christian character, which is quite a different thing.

[heyjude]

I don't think the OP is writing Christian fiction. Just a book that happens to contain a Christian character, which is quite a different thing.

Yep, sorry, I was wandering off in a new direction in my head (or out loud, or whatever).

Carry on.