A little question from a non-believer (non-combative)

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efreysson

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Let me just start by saying that I'm absolutely not trying to insult anyone or looking to start some sort of argument. I have my beliefs and other people have theirs, and that's fine. I would just like to get people's thoughts on something.

I have an aunt who is a very lovely person. Kind, decent, and has helped me out in many ways throughout the years. Sure, she has a few annoying habits (constantly talking about her cat, cracking endless lame jokes during movies...) but then so does everyone. She is also very religious, and most of her social life involves get-togethers at her church. I'm not one of those arrogant, loudmouth, jerk kind of atheists who have a problem with that, but occasionally she lets something slip that I find vaguely insulting on a personal level.
The best example is from when she was giving me a ride in her car, and our conversation led to her describing how she hadn't been truly alive before finding Christ, or something along those lines. I jokingly replied "So am I dead then?" She answered "You could say that, yes." That one really got through my skin, and both angered and insulted me. We dropped the subject and generally don't discuss faith, except for the rare instance where she vainly tries to goad me into attending a sermon.

My question to Christians is: How do you view your non-believing friends and relatives? Does their lack of faith irk you, or make you worry for them? I'm certainly NOT trying to paint all Christians with the same brush, and like I said my aunt is a fine person, but the incident has left me with a nagging feeling that she views me as 'lesser' somehow, or incomplete, when I myself don't feel that way.

Don't be shy, I'll welcome any politely phrased opinions.
 

Mumut

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Let me start by saying I'm not a Christian. I'm a practising agnostic. I'm sorry for an atheist because, the way I understand it, even if God popped up in your porridge and turned your wine into water, you would still refuse to believe in a higher being.

I believe there must be a creater of the universe, I just haven't found a man-made system of religion I believe God would be happy about. Apart from Thuggeesm, they are based on reasonable ideals, then ... but I'll not get into detail.

I'm just sad if you truely cannot accept that there is more to this existance than just a mob of creatures on a ball of material careering through space.
 

citymouse

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God is a word used to call fools together.

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Many people have subscribed to these notions, however, in the army there's an old saying, "There are no atheists in a foxhole." It's amazing how quickly we meet God when faced with eternity.

When man seeks God he creates a religion. When God seeks man he brings up the sun.

C
 

rwam

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Well, I'm trying to put myself in your aunt's shoes. I rather doubt her intention was to insult you, but can't say for sure. Keep in mind, she didn't really tell you that you were dead until you asked her. From her perspective, it was no different than you asking her, "Will it be easier to walk if I stop tying my shoes together?"

To be frank, your question to her reminds me of the stereotypical overweight woman asking her husband if her jeans made her look fat. When the husband says 'yes', he's merely answering her question with what he believes to be the truth, but he's pizzing her off. If he lies (or, says what he believes is a lie), he keeps the peace, but knows he's enabling his wife to believe she can keep eating tubs of ice cream all day and still look hot in her jeans.

Based upon the snippit you provided, your aunt actually sounds like a Christian who has enough restraint that you could probably have some pretty intelligient conversations about your differing beliefs. Maybe you could ask her what it was that made her "switch teams"?
 

Calla Lily

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Warning: Heretical opinon follows.

IMO, my non-Christian friends and I are all experiencing God in the way that God sees is best for us. I would never tell my Pagan friends (e.g.) that they're going to Hell--heck, according to the RCC, I'm going to Hell, because I've been excommunicated.

The example I always use is this: Somewhere in, say, the backwoods of South America there's a group of people who never heard of Christianity. They worship the cretive force, or their spirit guides. or whatever they call it. God did not create them, plop them there, and sit back rubbing His hands in glee for them to die so He could roast them over a Dante-esque fire for all eternity.

We're all just poor working slobs doing the best we can with the Ineffable.

/heresy. I'll be at my keyboard, waiting for the stakes and torches. :)
 

els

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*My question to Christians is: How do you view your non-believing friends and relatives? Does their lack of faith irk you, or make you worry for them?*

The only difference I feel toward non-believing friends and relatives is that I can't discuss my faith with them on a deep level. I mean, I can, to some level, discuss those things, but not with the sort of sharing joy you can with someone who believes the same things. And I don't want to be pushy if they don't want to hear it.
I'm neither irked nor worried by their unbelief- it is all in God's hands. I do pray for them, though.
I do get concerned for family and friends who have made a profession of faith and then think the profession is enough and they don't have to live like the Christians they say they are, because that's just hypocrisy.

But not everyone feels the same way. Due to differences in theology, some people think that they can argue people into heaven, making for some very combative witnessing sessions :(. Some people mistakenly think the Bible calls us to totally separate ourselves from sinners in the world. This weird Christian subculture has been created that you need to understand a special code in order to get into it.

I hope this answers your question. Just so you know, if you are the "wrong kind of Christian," certain other churches/believers will sometimes treat you the same way they do atheists and pagans and such. I had some street preacher telling me I'd go to hell because I didn't care about my spiritual condition when I wouldn't take one of his tracts. I have some family members who are VERY upset that I am no longer a Baptist. They've done nothing to research the church I now belong to to see if it stands up to biblical scrutiny. I totally understand the hurt that unbelievers can feel when you feel that you are being judged without being understood. There's a lot of high-horse religion out there.

I think way too often people- of all beliefs or lack thereof- make snap judgments about people without first trying to know them, or show any concern or care for that person as a person.
 
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heyjude

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My question to Christians is: How do you view your non-believing friends and relatives? Does their lack of faith irk you, or make you worry for them? I'm certainly NOT trying to paint all Christians with the same brush, and like I said my aunt is a fine person, but the incident has left me with a nagging feeling that she views me as 'lesser' somehow, or incomplete, when I myself don't feel that way.

Don't be shy, I'll welcome any politely phrased opinions.

I'm going to go out on a limb and try to answer this one. (And yes, I am a Christian.)

My non-believing friends and relatives do NOT irk me by their lack of faith. They are NOT lesser. God loves them every bit as much as He loves me. Yes, some of them I worry about. I have someone in my life right now that is in a dire situation and I feel strongly that this person could find peace if s/he knew God. (Actually there are a couple people in my life like that right now.)

However, this person has stated that s/he does NOT want to talk about religion. We honor this. We don't avoid talking about church or about God, but neither do we preach, prod, or anything else. We are trying to live out our faith, as always, so that the love of Christ shines through us.

I have had many people ask me over the years why I'm calm, or where my demeanor comes from in the midst of crisis. "Knowing Jesus" is my answer. Like your aunt, I am happy to answer questions and have a discussion. I won't force my beliefs on anyone.

Whew. That was harder to do than I thought. I hope it's helpful and politely phrased. :)
 

rwam

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Oh, and as for your original question. One of my best friends is former Catholic and now an atheist (or, he at least believes he's an atheist, if that makes sense...but I kinda thinks he's "agreed to disagree" with the RCC).

I don't think of him as lesser than me, but I'm not one of those people that go around thinking I need to save everyone. I will tell you, though, that I believe everyone deep-down, in his or her subconscious, does believe in some type of Creator, no matter what words they may say. And I also echo Calalilly's thoughts that the rural Peruvian villager has a relationship with the One I know as Jesus...he just calls Him a different name. As for your so-called incompleteness.....I never considered myself incomplete prior to marrying Angie. Even after that, I never considered myself incomplete prior to Amanda being born. Now, I cannot fathom how I felt so complete before those events. I guess my point is, a person (me, you, and your Aunt) probably can't come close to comprehending how incomplete we all are RIGHT NOW.
 

Appalachian Writer

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My question to Christians is: How do you view your non-believing friends and relatives? Does their lack of faith irk you, or make you worry for them? I'm certainly NOT trying to paint all Christians with the same brush, and like I said my aunt is a fine person, but the incident has left me with a nagging feeling that she views me as 'lesser' somehow, or incomplete, when I myself don't feel that way.

Yes, I am Christian, and no, my non-believer friends do not "irk" me. Do I think they're "lesser somehow, or incomplete"? No, I don't. Do I occasionally share my faith? Yes. Your aunt was sharing a little of her faith with you. As a Christian, she probably does worry about you. She apparently feels close to you, and the foundations of her faith lead her to believe that a non-believer (you) won't be with her in heaven. Caring for you as she does, she doesn't want to miss the opportunity of sharing eternity. I don't think she considers you "less" than her. She believes with all of her heart that heaven exists as a reward for beleivers and she wants the two of you to share the same reward. She doesn't sound pushy. From this snippet, she doesn't sound like some soap-box preacher.

I don't preach to my non-believing friends. I answer questions when asked. You asked your aunt a question and she answered it as best she could.
 

HeronW

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You need to let your auntie's remarks roll off you like water off a duck's feathers. Belief is personal, between you and the Infinite, eternal energy, whatever name you choose. There will always be those people who want to force their narrow views on the rest of the world, whether it be of politics, religion, XP over Vista (don't get me started!), etc.

My oldest friend is very Catholic, my partner is Jewish, I'm pagan. We all have the deepest respect for each other, are content with each other's paths and can joke without anyone feeling hostile.

The Golden Rule 'do unto others as you would have done to you' has been around for about 7000 years, in various forms, in every major religion. Sadly, like common sense, it occurs rarely.
 

Roger J Carlson

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The best example is from when she was giving me a ride in her car, and our conversation led to her describing how she hadn't been truly alive before finding Christ, or something along those lines. I jokingly replied "So am I dead then?" She answered "You could say that, yes." That one really got through my skin, and both angered and insulted me. We dropped the subject and generally don't discuss faith, except for the rare instance where she vainly tries to goad me into attending a sermon.

My question to Christians is: How do you view your non-believing friends and relatives? Does their lack of faith irk you, or make you worry for them? I'm certainly NOT trying to paint all Christians with the same brush, and like I said my aunt is a fine person, but the incident has left me with a nagging feeling that she views me as 'lesser' somehow, or incomplete, when I myself don't feel that way.
Ephesians 2:1-2a says: "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world..." (Paul was addressing fellow believers here.)

If your aunt knows her Bible, and it sounds like she does, your question almost certainly brought this scripture to mind. So if she was to answer your question honestly (which I assume you would want her to do), she had little choice. Sounds to me like she said it in the kindest way possible.

But does that mean she thinks lesser of you? I shouldn't think so. A few verses later (Ephesians 2:4-5) says: "But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved."

There's nothing "lesser" about unbelievers because Christians haven't done anything to merit a "higher" standing. God saves us by grace. All we have to do is accept it. Your aunt knows this as well.

There are worse things in life than having someone worry about you. :)
 
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I am a Christian who "got saved" as a very young adult. Prior to my conversion, I was a disinterested Catholic. (Raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, etc). I believed in God for sure, but God wasn't the all-consuming center of my life.

Then when I "got saved" (I am using the quotation marks not in mockery but to at least let the reader know that I am aware it's just an expression whose truth is deemed dubious by other people) it was in one of those little country churches. My church had old ladies and hymnals and a senior pastor who spoke with a mild Mid-Western twang (even though we were in New England--he came from Nebraska to pastor that church). I was in a totally new world when I converted to this new religion--the American form of Evangelical Christianity. And I embraced this world completely.

Let me tell you about this world of the American Evangelical Christian sub-culture(at least about MY perceptions of it) and about how it is that many of the people in that world view THE REST of the world. But let me first stipulate two very very pertinent caveats before I go into the details: a) not everyone from this world believes this way (I am going to speak in generalizations only) and b) I no longer subscribe to many of the "harsher" elements of this world, but I promise that I did once.

1) Christianity is (according to Christians) the only true religion. All other belief systems are sadly deluded. There is only one God, he is NOT Allah or Brahman or Bhuda (or a volcano or a tree or the sun, etc). Anyone who thinks he IS Allah or Brahman or Bhuda (or a volcano or the sun or anything else) is in danger of the fires of Hell, and therefore it is the responsibility of those of us (those of us who are Christians) who know the truth to tell them that truth. Otherwise those deluded people are going to die in an unsaved state and will be cast into Hell for all of eternity. So they are as good as dead right now. It's our duty to help them. This is a matter of life and death --but it is ETERNAL life and death, so the stakes are that much higher and far more permanent than mere physical death.

2) Adam and Eve sinned the first human sin and passed their sin on to the rest of humanity. (I'm not saying I believe in a LITERAL Adam and Eve, just that this is the prevailing concept, whether it's taken literally or figuratively.) That bit of inherited sin from them --in addition to all our own personal sins during the course of a normal lifetime-- induced a state of spiritual death into all of us. We are all walking around in spiritual darkness and blindness and death. We are physically alive with physical bodies here on the temporal plain of the Earth, but in the spiritual realm we are all just the dry bones of death: walking skeletons. The only thing that can make the dry bones of a spiritually dead person come to life is Jesus. Different symbols such as Jesus being "living water" are alluded to in the Bible, and how he is "the water of life." So if any man drinks from that water, he will be made alive. Jesus is also called "the bread of life." If any man eats of the bread of life he will be made alive (implying such a man was once dead).

3) We have a lot of songs we sing in church with words derrived from the Bible. These songs mention being "alive in Christ" and having "life more abundantly." We view our lives in a "before" and "after" kind of way. BEFORE CHRIST came into my life, I was dead. AFTER CHRIST came into my life, I was alive.

[I don't know if anyone else ever does this, but I imagine in my head a timeline --like the timeline strewn across the top of the page in a 4th grade history book-- depicting my entire life. The far left end is the day of my birth. The far right end is today (February 22, 2008) and then the "arrow" continues off the page toward the right to indicate that I'm not yet deceased and therefore more is yet to come. And the entire length of that line in between the birth and today has various key life landmarks notated on it, some more significant than others. But the really really big landmark is the day I got saved. Everything before that date (everything to the left of it) is painted in darkness. Everything after that is depicted in sunshine. (Rather like the 4th grade history book that shows the stretch of time covering the Dark Ages, my life before Christ was a life of darkness.)]

4) There is mention in the Bible of "high" and "low." There are poetic allusions to being "cast down" and to being "raised up." We speak of the miraculous journey involved in coming up out of the "valley" of sin and death, and of ascending up to the "mountain top" of life and of victory over sin. We sing a song about "standing on higher ground."

5) The view of the universe is that it is all just a temporary, passing thing. ALL of it will one day be destroyed: the sun, the planets, the stars are all to be cast into the fires of destruction and there's nothing we can do to stop that. Physical objects --even our bodies-- are not important. The true goal to keep one's eyes fixed upon thorughout life is the reward of the afterlife: an eternity in Heaven. Materialism is looked down upon and deemd a form of lust and pride (which of course are both sins). When we die and go to Heaven, there is nothing from the Earth that we will be able to take with us except for other people. Thus are "things" to be disregarded as utterly unimportant. The true focus should be upon people.

6) Hate is a sin. Snubbery is a sin. Discrimination is a sin. But pity is a virtue. People who do not know the truth of God are NOT to be hated but pitied. And we are to help them see the truth. And once they learn and embrace the truth, they are to be welcomed into the fold and nurtured into the deeper truths of God like small children nurtured at school. And one of the first things they are taught is that they were once dead, but are now alive. Everything before the day of their conversion was all just darkness and death.

7) "Fellowship" (socializing with other believers) is of critical importance. "Fellowship" can include overtly religious activites, or else just having fun together. Many many opportunities for fellowship must be afforded to believers: Sunday morning church services, Sunday evening church services, mid-week Bible studies, meal fellowships, neighborhood clean-up efforts, car washes, singles night, youth group, etc etc. Without these activities, church members would be left to socialize on their own, and that can often involve going out to bars, maybe getting drunk, maybe using drugs, maybe sleeping with someone who is not their spouse, etc. This deliberately insulated social life of lots and lots of fellowshipping with just believers is very reinforcing of the moral standards of the church community. On another level, lots of church fellowshipping can help low-income members of a church avoid spending too much money on socializing (like the high-priced undertakings of going to the movies or going out to a restaurant, etc).

8) I have heard many sermons and read many books (books that have been written by Christians for Christians) where the following statements have been made. These kinds of statements are meant to be an encouragement for Christians to help them to maintain their faiths in spite of difficult times. The following arguments are predicated upon the notion that Christianity is indeed the only true belief system, and so the ability of such statements to persuade and comfort Christians would have no effect if not for that prerequisite assumption. The following statements are very well-intended when one hears them within the context of the Christian belief system, and therefore they are culturally-specific to the American Christian sub-culture. But when viewed from the outside by a non-believer, they sound downright disturbing. I used to read and/or listen to such words of comfort and exhortation with hope. But I have since learned to filter such words through my what-if-a-non-believer-is-listening sensibilities, and so I have recently (as in the past five years) begun to cautiously edit my own word choices (both written and spoken) in many situations in life. MOST of these are phrased as absolutes simply because absolutes are desperately important to Christians --the very heart of our faith deals with the absoluteness of eternity itself. But absolutes are an utter anathema to most intellectuals, especially those who deal with math and science. And so this right here is where a LOT of the deep, thorny divide between belivers and non-believers comes from:

-- "Even when a Christian is at his lowest point in life, he is still ALWAYS standing on higher ground than a non-believer."

-- "Only Christians have access to the FULL truth. No scholar, no scientist, no politician, no double-domed intellectual with all those years of education crammed into his head can ever claim to be 'enlightened' if he does not have the truth of God hidden in his heart."

-- "The Bible stands apart from any other book ever written because it's the ONLY book written by God. All other books have merely been written by men --books about science and history and math and art and fiction and non-fiction. And they can ALL get piled off to the side in one giant mountain of paper and leather --a mountain that stretches as long and as tall as the Rockies from Canada down to Mexico. And YES --you can scrutinize those many many books and dispute them and debate them and correct them and retract them and rewrite them from now 'til Judgement Day. But the Bible is NOT part of that endless jumble of ink and pulp. The Bible alone stands completely by itself, far removed from the words of men. The Bible is unshakeable and no one can claim to correct it because it's already perfectly correct."

-- "God's word is the only true light. Everything else is darkness. Yes, there is knowledge, but without God there is no true light and thus no true enlightenment."




I've only scratched the surface here. There is so much else to this world. But hopefully, THIS can shed some light on your aunt's outlook. Please understand that it's an outlook of love. This is a religion that is deeply concerned with people on a very human level. It's a religion that espouses that an indisputable equality exists amongst all men (and women). It's one that values people as being eternally important to the very heart of God. So it's a very very well-intended religion. But she most likely doesn't realize that she's coming across as either weird or offensive or arrogant. I can probably guarantee you that she's NOT arrogant and doesn't at all "look down" on you. She's just concerned about you with what is perhaps one of the most pure and altruistic concerns you could ever encounter. It merely (and sadly) comes across as weird.

To draw an analogy (and I realize this is a pretty fierce analogy that some may find downright offensive, but it's the best I can come up with right now): there is currently a raging epidemic of AIDS on the African continent. Part of that epidemic is fueled by the unbudgable persistence of several truly frightening miscoceptions/myths that are deeply entrenched in various African nations. One such myth is that if a man with AIDS sleeps with a virgin, he will be cured. And so there are MANY men in Africa who are willing to pay serious money to the fathers of 5/6/7/8-year-old girls to be able to have sex with these children in the hope that it will cure them. I'm sure you can see what the result of that practice has been (and continues to be): men who continue to have AIDS, little girls who get infected with it at young ages, and sometimes child-pregnancies in which the baby that is born to that child has AIDS. One solution is to embark upon aggressive educational efforts to try and combat these destructive urban legends. Meanwhile, millions of people in Africa continue to die of AIDS and the disease keeps spreading. This is a desperate situation to say the least. As for the aid workers and the nurses and the educators who go to these regions of Africa to try and educate the nationals on the truth of what AIDS is, I don't believe any of those worker (who are usually volunteers)look down on these Africans in a way that is arrogant and condescending (at least I hope they don't). Instead, I would like to believe they are deeply concerned for them and perhaps pity them, but all around there is a desperate urgency and compassion for them. And as these beliefs persist in Arica, the aid workers experience a very understandable frustration and even sorrowful angst over the ongoing battle against this blind ignorance that is needlessly bringing people (especially innocent children and newborn babies) to their graves.

My analogy is that Christians see themselves as the educators trying to enlighten an ignorant world to the truth that will save them from the needless death of Hell. But the ideal attitude for al Christians to have is that when Christians attempt to spread the correct indformation, they do NOT do so in arrogance but in pity and concern and a desperate urgency and compassion. And Christians also face a dire and angst-ridden frustration at times as they watch people continue for many years in a blindness on their path to Hell.

My analogy regrettably breaks down at a certain point because I am comparing the very concrete and medically scientific facts concerning AIDS to the subjective and spiritual concept of sin and its alleged ability to induce a symbolic and unprovable form of "death."

But THIS (IMHO) is what this world of American Evangelicalism is about. And where I believe your aunt is coming from.
 
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Gehanna

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Hello efreysson, :hi:

Fair warning: My opinion will most likely not be taken well by you.

You said:
The best example is from when she was giving me a ride in her car, and our conversation led to her describing how she hadn't been truly alive before finding Christ, or something along those lines. I jokingly replied "So am I dead then?" She answered "You could say that, yes." That one really got through my skin, and both angered and insulted me. We dropped the subject and generally don't discuss faith, except for the rare instance where she vainly tries to goad me into attending a sermon.
My opinion is that you were already annoyed before asking the question.

You said:
... and like I said my aunt is a fine person, but the incident has left me with a nagging feeling that she views me as 'lesser' somehow, or incomplete, when I myself don't feel that way.
Seems to me that is the question you want an answer to.

If you find my opinion offensive, I understand. After all, my Christian and Non Christian friends usually end up wanting to shoot me in the face with a bazooka.

Sincerely,
Gehanna - The Quirk
 

rugcat

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I'm certainly NOT trying to paint all Christians with the same brush, and like I said my aunt is a fine person, but the incident has left me with a nagging feeling that she views me as 'lesser' somehow, or incomplete, when I myself don't feel that way
There are certainly many Christians who feel that way. It's not that they feel you are "lesser," it's more that they pity you because you're unable to experience the joy and complete fulfillment that comes from accepting Jesus Christ into your life.

They have no idea just how insulting that attitude is to a non Christian or a non believer, or if they do, they feel it's your problem, not theirs.
 

heyjude

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They have no idea just how insulting that attitude is to a non Christian or a non believer, or if they do, they feel it's your problem, not theirs.

Sorry, rugcat, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

I remember how insulting I thought that attitude was. (Don't forget there are many of us who didn't "adopt" Christianity until later in life.) It wasn't until I allowed myself to listen, really listen, and ask questions, that I started to understand where "they" were coming from.

If I'm sharing my faith, it's because I care about someone. I care how they feel. Never in my life have I thought as dismissively as "it's your problem." Probably there are some out there who do feel that way, but they're not the majority.
 

heyjude

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BTW, OP, have you thought about just telling your aunt how you feel? It might lead to an interesting discussion. You might understand each other better.
 
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Calla Lily

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Illustration from my own life:

In a long series of email discussions with a Pagan friend (she's on the west coast, I'm on the east), we both shared our "conversion stories" as it were. She was minding her own business one day, trying to work out her spiritual direction and the Morrighan appeared to her and told my friend to follow her spiritual path. (I don't know much about the manifestation of the Morrighan--please ask the folks on the Pagan boards if you're curious.) My friend described her, her voice, her own automatic sense of "Duh. Of course this is where I belong."

As for me, I was toward the end of about 20 years of spiritual seeking and then 2 years of being hounded by Jesus--Whom I'd cursed and kicked to the curb 20 years previously (long story. If anyone cares, PM me). I was in a constant cage fight with Him. I was minding my own business one day, actually in a momentary respite fromthe wrestling. (Feel free to chuckle at the following; I'm cool.) Jesus revealed Himself to me and said (yes; in my head): "I am your path."

Unlike my friend, I kicked and screamed for several months more before I had my own "Duh" moment.

This is why I firmly believe that God shows Himself to each of us in the way we best relate to Him.
 

III

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The idea of sitting around with one of my non-Christian buddies and thinking "I pity him" strikes me as absurdly funny. Even just thinking about my non-Christian buddies in this forum, the concept of "pitying them" has never even crossed my mind.

We're friends - I hurt when they hurt. If I can do something to alieviate their hurting and make them happy, then I'm glad to do it and I know they feel the same way about helping me - whether it's advice about health, money, spirituality, family; whatever. If they have questions about Christianity they know I'll shoot straight with them and never force it down their throats.

What I found interesting about the OP is, okay you find it insulting that she thinks you're spiritually dead, but what if she had been the one asking the question instead of you? What if she had asked "Do you think I'm deluded for believing in Christ?" and you had answered her honestly? You could both be equally insulted by the other's belief, right? But if you love each other then where's the insult? Isn't the love and friendship more important than the philosophical differences? You're both technically condescending to each other's belief.
 

oscuridad

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I do not have religious beliefs (just putting my cards on the table) and the only time I have come across this sort of attitude is from Jehovah's Witnesses on the doorstep and College Christian Unions. Sorry, no answers there. It is unfortunately a part of how we are made to view our own standpoint (on anything) as right, and those of others as therefore, wrong. Tough not to end up with disagreements really.
 

rugcat

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Sorry, rugcat, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

I remember how insulting I thought that attitude was. (Don't forget there are many of us who didn't "adopt" Christianity until later in life.) It wasn't until I allowed myself to listen, really listen, and ask questions, that I started to understand where "they" were coming from.

If I'm sharing my faith, it's because I care about someone. I care how they feel. Never in my life have I thought as dismissively as "it's your problem." Probably there are some out there who do feel that way, but they're not the majority.
I should have been clearer. I'm speaking of a small segment of Christians, not Christians as a whole, and I admit they do tend to push my buttons.

I have Christian friends, devout Christians, who do not feel that way at all, and in fact are even more disturbed by the attitude I was referring to than I am, because sometimes that's the only experience non Christians have to go by, and therefore they may come to some erroneous notions about Christians in general.

However, I will say that if one's motivation is to "save" someone from their path to hell, even if it's done out of love, it is intrinsically dismissive of the other person's beliefs. And that does tend to provoke annoyance, at best.
 

JoNightshade

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I'm a Christian who believes Christ is the only way to eternal life. In John 14:6, Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I believe that.

When I was in high school, I once had a classmate who ridiculed me for my beliefs. She said Christians used their religion as a crutch because they didn't want to face the real world.

My response was, "Yes, exactly!"

In my mind, we're all broken. It's kind of like, metaphorically, we're all missing, say, a leg. So we're all crawling around on the ground, mostly making things work. But then someone comes along with two legs. And he offers you a crutch. To me, Christians are the ones who wholeheartedly accept that crutch. We say, "Yes! I'm crippled! Please help me!" Non-Christians are the ones who say, "No thanks, I'd rather keep doing this on my own."

So do I pity non-Christians? Well, since we're all missing a "leg," not really. Do I think I'm better than them? Uh, no. We're all in the same boat. But I do think they're a bit foolish to turn down the crutch! And to be helpful, I would probably suggest that other people accept the crutch, because it's definitely worked for me! But if someone says "Sod off, I don't want your crutch," that's their choice.

Does being a Christian make my life perfect? No, I'm still missing my leg. And obviously my leg metaphor doesn't quite go all the way... I guess I'd have to say that this person with 2 legs was also promising to replace my missing leg, as well. And I trust him because he's already helped me a bunch by giving me this crutch. And of course I would like the people I love to also get that missing leg back, if they can.

But anyway, I doubt your aunt thinks badly of you at all. The fact that she's willing to answer you honestly means she loves you and cares about you.
 

Come Back Kid

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My "Off The Track" Reply

EF:
I sure liked your question and the way you expressed it. Strange timing for me because I had just an hour ago written my dear friend who was my karate instructor 40 years ago. I told him that nothing I say can make him a believer but I want him to accept the truth for two reasons. I'd like for him to be in heaven, plus each time someone believes, it strengthens our faith. A lot won't admit to ever having doubts but they come. ( That's part of Satan's job)
I became a believer at age 34, so I've been where you are. You are no worse than me, I just investigated and accepted it as truth. I found it takes work to keep your faith strong, because to an unbeliever, this whole story seems like a "Starwars" myth. My example:
A mighty being, Creator of the universe, doing battle with an evil foe, more cunning and wiser than the ones He created and loves. In a mystery, known only to Him, He regains control of a planet given over to the evil one. Possession regained without storming in and using His awesome power to regain said planet. How, you may ask?
Satan's mistake was taking a sinless man (the Blood of Jesus was sinless, hence the completely necessary virgin birth) into hell. Somehow, this gave God the legal right to take Earth back. Plus, as the Word says, "the wages of sin is death." Someone had to die, so Jesus did it for all us sinners.
I apologize for getting off the track of your questions but knowing what I just shared, helped me a lot. I may be off a bit but the main thing is, we needed a Saviour and it was Jesus. You have a choice as to who you serve, but "You Gotta Serve Somebody." (Bob Dylan)
Your aunt sounds like a woman who loves you very much and does not want you to make ,what she sees as, an eternal mistake.
Once I apologized for sharing with an unbeliever who said, "don't apologize, you are showing concern for my soul." Hug your aunt and ask questions. We are all seeking Our Maker, whether we realize it or not.
Jim
 

Don Allen

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The answer to your question is probably yes, aunty thinks a little less of you for not believing as she does, hence the problem with religion. Most, though certainly not religious people tend to look down upon others who don't see things their way. A small version of that is you aunt, multiply that equation by a billion and you have people slaming planes into buildings. The irony of all religion especially Christianity, is that people who follow the religion tend to intepret the teachings of the bible to suit their own needs.
 

Don Allen

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A side note that I find fasinating, alluded to by another post, is the fact that mankind seems to be predisposed to belive in a supreme being regardless of what you call it. Where ever man has left written history, there is evidence of faith in some form or another, I tend to be very agnostic in my own beliefs, but find it hard to believe that every culture from the beginning of man has found God, so to speak without something there to back it up....as spock would say,,, "interesting"..
 

Jenny

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Efreysson, to answer your question. I don't worry about other people's salvation. If you'll permit me to sound corny, I think it's all in God's hands. Do you know what struck me about your post? The love between you and your aunt. Sometimes our words are less reliable than what we do for each other.
 
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