Stories without quotation marks. Love or hate?

KikiteNeko · Feb 21, 2008

Angela's Ashes was my first encounter with a story that used no quotation marks for dialogue. I was wary at first, but as the story moved, I realized how skillfully the author employed it.

Lately, I've been drafting a synopsis for a second novel, a 60's drug-induced story of a young girl who gets swept up in a hippie regime. It was not my intention to write this story without quotation marks, but the idea kept nagging me, and now I don't think this story will look quite "right" with them.

Anyone have opinions on the lack of quotation marks in literary novels? Or other genres, too.

RG570 · Feb 21, 2008

I think it's fine. If the readers aren't picky spoiled brats with no imagination, they will generally get used to the stylistic traits of a story within a few pages.

Go for it, if that's what you want. It's not really THAT out of the ordinary, or a big deal.

Sonneillon · Feb 21, 2008

I may be spoiled on this by my years in fanfic, where writers often didn't know how to use quotation marks, but I'm also a stickler for proper punctuation and I'm not sure I could stand it. However, I don't often read surreal literature (i.e. anything drug-induced), so your target audience may feel differently.

The problem comes when you try to separate dialogue from narrative. As a reader, I find this very difficult to do without quotation marks, but again, this may be due to the poor overall quality of quotation-free fics I have read. I wouldn't worry about whether the story will 'look right' with them included - your readers will be expecting to see them, so the alternative will probably never occur to them.

Danger Jane · Feb 21, 2008

Honestly, anything works for me if it's right for the story. Quotation marks aren't a big deal for me, but I know some readers think it's highly pretentious to abandon them.

Do what works. Not everyone will like your story no matter what you do.

KikiteNeko · Feb 21, 2008

I was planning on punctuating and capitalizing the first word of dialogue as though the quotation marks are present.

Sonneillon said:
I may be spoiled on this by my years in fanfic, where writers often didn't know how to use quotation marks, but I'm also a stickler for proper punctuation and I'm not sure I could stand it. However, I don't often read surreal literature (i.e. anything drug-induced), so your target audience may feel differently.

The problem comes when you try to separate dialogue from narrative. As a reader, I find this very difficult to do without quotation marks, but again, this may be due to the poor overall quality of quotation-free fics I have read. I wouldn't worry about whether the story will 'look right' with them included - your readers will be expecting to see them, so the alternative will probably never occur to them.

Marian Perera · Feb 21, 2008

I struggled through Cold Mountain for many reasons, but one of them was the lack of quotation marks.

Oddly enough, that didn't bother me with The Handmaid's Tale. So I realized that if I like a book, I don't really notice the lack of quotation marks. Highly subjective.

KikiteNeko · Feb 21, 2008

My friend lives and swears by Cold Mountain but I couldn't get into it, though I did love Handmaid's Tale (and some of Atwood's others). I suppose it does depend upon taste. I don't want my novel to seem like "ooo, look at me, I'm different, there are no quotation marks!" I HATE pretentious literature, I don't care how well it does on the market. I'm trying to figure out which will best create a story into which people will be submersed.

Queen of Swords said:
I struggled through Cold Mountain for many reasons, but one of them was the lack of quotation marks.

Oddly enough, that didn't bother me with The Handmaid's Tale. So I realized that if I like a book, I don't really notice the lack of quotation marks. Highly subjective.

Hopcus · Feb 21, 2008

When I read, I do the voices in my head, and though I love Irvine Welsh's writing style, I'm constantly going, 'Oh crap, that character was talking.' Then I have to go back and re-read the line in their voice. But that's just one of my little quirks. I certainly don't think it makes for a bad book.

KAP · Feb 21, 2008

It bothers me to be without quoation marks, much as Hopcus stated. Why make it harder on the reader to sink into the story and then to realize when dialogue begins and ends?

Of course I'm an old fogey, so discount my opinion accordingly.

And best with it, quotation marks or not.

kap

SmartAsh · Feb 21, 2008

On the first read through, it doesn't bother me. However, I am one of those people who will read the same book over and over, and I will admit that I like being able to quickly find the dialogue -- quotation marks certainly make that easier.

donroc · Feb 21, 2008

What's next? No paragraphing?

Finnegan awakens?

KikiteNeko · Feb 21, 2008

I take it you do not approve.

donroc said:
What's next? No paragraphing?

Finnegan awakens?

Shweta · Feb 21, 2008

I'd guess that, all else aside, the best way to let readers be immersed in the story is to make all the formatting stuff as close to expectations as you can. Unless there's a story-specific or style-specific reason to change punctuation/grammar/spelling/font/color/page layout/numbering etc away from the default, why change them? The less the reader notices it, the less it'll get in the way. And people notice differences. So sameness is good, unless the difference is meaningful.

Judg · Feb 21, 2008

I was going to say I hated it, but I read Angela's Ashes and I can't remember noticing. I would not reread that book, but quotation marks are not the issue.

Still, I'm conservative about these things myself. Punctuation was created to make things easier to read, so you would have to make sure your prose was absolutely crystal clear at all times to avoid confusing the reader. Perhaps not a bad thing, but you are raising the bar a little higher for yourself.

If you choose to go without them, be prepared to change if an agent or editor insists on it. It really doesn't seem to be the kind of thing worth fighting over.

Shweta · Feb 21, 2008

I agree with Judg. But I also think that some crystal-clear narration would still need quotation marks to "sound" right. I might be way off here, but I wonder if quotation marks are actually a voice issue, and not a simply grammatical one?

I was just thinking about Handmaid's Tale; I hadn't even realized it lacked quotation marks till it was mentioned in here. And that's a first-person narrator whose voice is... consistent, somehow, with the lack of quotation marks.

And I'm realizing that happened in a couple of the Clarion stories we workshopped too. It was a device that worked because it was consistent somehow with the narrative voice being used.

Now... consistent how? I can't put my finger on it. But I had the sense of someone talking to me, and not changing their tone/intonation much when they were describing people talking. When I imagine "Stop that," he said to me vs Stop that, he said to me being read out loud, they sound different.

Does this make sense to anyone but me?

Danger Jane · Feb 21, 2008

Queen of Swords said:
I struggled through Cold Mountain for many reasons, but one of them was the lack of quotation marks.

Oddly enough, that didn't bother me with The Handmaid's Tale. So I realized that if I like a book, I don't really notice the lack of quotation marks. Highly subjective.

Definitely. If I don't like a book, I'm picking apart just everything about it that could possibly annoy me. If I like a book, I'm praising the unusual stylistic techniques, like lack of quotation marks, as risk-taking and innovative. Or whatever.

M.P. Furo · Feb 21, 2008

Hate. I read one before, and it was well-written and it had its reasons for not using quotation marks, but I just can't read like that.

Danger Jane · Feb 21, 2008

Shweta said:
I agree with Judg. But I also think that some crystal-clear narration would still need quotation marks to "sound" right. I might be way off here, but I wonder if quotation marks are actually a voice issue, and not a simply grammatical one?

I was just thinking about Handmaid's Tale; I hadn't even realized it lacked quotation marks till it was mentioned in here. And that's a first-person narrator whose voice is... consistent, somehow, with the lack of quotation marks.

And I'm realizing that happened in a couple of the Clarion stories we workshopped too. It was a device that worked because it was consistent somehow with the narrative voice being used.

Now... consistent how? I can't put my finger on it. But I had the sense of someone talking to me, and not changing their tone/intonation much when they were describing people talking. When I imagine "Stop that," he said to me vs Stop that, he said to me being read out loud, they sound different.

Does this make sense to anyone but me?

I think this device could also work really well with a narrator who has trouble distinguishing between the real world and his own internal thoughts, something along those lines.

Matera the Mad · Feb 21, 2008

I have never read a quotation mark-less story. I'm sure that i could handle it, IF it was written skillfully enough. On the other paw, if it is just another damn faddish fancy like most First Person Gutter Present Tense...ehhh

KikiteNeko · Feb 21, 2008

That's exactly it. With this next novel, I don't want it to be like the narrator is entirely telling the story. I want it to be like we, the readers, tapped into her brain somehow and are hearing her actual perception.

Danger Jane said:
I think this device could also work really well with a narrator who has trouble distinguishing between the real world and his own internal thoughts, something along those lines.

Shweta · Feb 21, 2008

tomothecat said:
That's exactly it. With this next novel, I don't want it to be like the narrator is entirely telling the story. I want it to be like we, the readers, tapped into her brain somehow and are hearing her actual perception.

So that's a plot-relevant story-relevant reason for the decision. I'm always pro- story-relevant decisions

blacbird · Feb 21, 2008

Not real fond of 'em. Always strikes me as an affectation, akin to deliberately variant spelling. It always seems to me that the writer really needs a good, reader-transparent reason for doing such a thing, and if that isn't evident, a bad moon rises over my reading experience.

caw

kristie911 · Feb 21, 2008

I've read one book that didn't have quotations. The book was probably good but the dialogue was so distracting without quotations, I had a very hard time really getting into the book.

So my answer is: no, I don't care for novels without quotation marks.

badducky · Feb 21, 2008

It is an affectation, usually. However, (i have written a novel that seems successful so far... *fingers crossed* with dialogue in italics) one shouldn't do it just for the sake of doing it.

If you're breaking a rule and you don't have a reason for it, that's an affectation.

If you can enunciate a reason why you are ignoring the rules of grammar and usage that everyone knows and recognizes, then it is not an affectation.

And, your reason(s) had better not suck.

My editor was wary, until I gave him the two reasons, and then he was immediately on board and supportive of the technique.

Second book has quotation marks. Lots and lots of them. Reasons no longer applied.

Dig?

donroc · Feb 21, 2008

Why not go all the way. No spaces between words and no punctuations too. Back to "as the ox plows?"

Stories without quotation marks. Love or hate?

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