Course and Bearing

I hope you're not clssifiying the Holy Spirit as "intuition." He (God, the Holy Spirit) must guide us as we rightly divide the word of truth.

There can certainly be human errors in the translations of the Bible. I believe the original authors were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write the exact words they penned long ago. With Him around, we can certainly understand what was originally intended even if some of the verbage has been intentionally or inadvertently changed.

Mac

David Conner said:

One may say that relying on intuition rather than literate direction to discover and obey the will of God is a recipe for a distorted and self serving moral compass. Another may say that the Bible is so filled with aparent contradictions that it cannot be taken literally. So, how can a Christian know that he or she is being obedient to God's direction?

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A Baptist preacher used to say that in order to know God's will for your life, you needed to be doing God's will. He went on to explain, that he was talking about finding out God's personal will for your life, through doing what He has commanded in the Bible. Whether this is true or whether this is hogwash, I couldn't say. But it does make a cool quote, in any case.

Since I have learned (to my great annoyance) that I do not have all the answers, I thought I would fish in this great sea of Christian scholarship to see what insights may be offered.

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Nobody has all the answers, David. We're only human, after all.

I want to be clear about my position here. I have no secret agenda to undermine the Bible. It is sacred to me. And I am of a rather conservative inclination. But I am not a lemming. So, when Paul says that he is both the least and among the greatest of God's servants, or that his companions were both blinded and not blinded on the road to damascus, I am left scratching my head.

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I think the problem you're facing here has more to do with Bible translations than the Bible itself. The OT says "Every word of God is pure...", so you can trust that what God says is going to be right.

The problem is, He wrote His original words in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. These languages have a lot more meaning to each word than our English language, and therefore what the English translation you might be reading (or whatever translation into whatever other language you might be reading) is saying, is not necessarily the original intent of either God or those who penned His Word.

Another, more general question is, if God has given man free will, has he made an exception when it comes to man's capability of corrupting the Bible? If so, why does the bible warn man against altering it?

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I think that Man does have free will, and I think he is capable of changing the Word of God around to meet his desires. If this were not possible, then the Bible would have no reason to warn against such actions, or to give such stiff penalties as it gives.

Think, for a moment, about some devotionals or sermons, where a preacher or a writer will quote a portion of a verse of Scripture, and then will make a doctrine out of it that the original verse in context never even implied. The thing is, this happens all the time within and outside of the Christian faith.

Also, some people will use commentary to change the obvious meaning the Word of God gives when it is taken in context. Some versions of the Bible have such commentary, although I cannot quote it for Copyright reasons.

Heck, I've even read versions of the Bible where entire books and chapters have been replaced by a Sage's beliefs on what they should say.

On the other hand, when I look at the bible's portrayal of Jesus: his life on earth, his divinity, his purpose, his love, and especially his redeeming death and resurrection, it has the unmistakable ring of truth to it. Whatever glitches there may be in the story, I'm buying it.

It seems inconceivable to me that God would place us in a spiritual reality that requires death of "self", and child-like faith, without also providing a guidance system that leads to him. I am convinced that it exists, but what and where is it?

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I believe that, though men might change the Word of God around, you can still get the gist of it if you simply read it. There are certain constants to the differing Bibles that you should take note of. Those constants are where you will likely find the obvious -- and sometimes not so obvious -- guidance that you're asking about.

Now, I realize that by publishing my uncertainty, I am inviting in the whole pack of dogmas. But be that as it may, I will sort through and see what I can find.

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Might I recommend searching through the Bible itself? Maybe get a couple different versions to compare with one another? I personally use the NIV for readability and cross-referencing; the KJV for use with my Strong's concordance; and I also have a couple other versions that each have their own unique way of translating certain parts of Scripture. I wouldn't recommend so much looking into commentaries or creeds -- they're nice, but they're not really God's Word and therefore don't have the reliability that the Bible itself would give. Just read the Word itself, and see what you find without human opinions getting in your way. That's what I find to be the best way to know what God's Word really means.

I will come back to this post when I have time and see what has been said. I simply dont have time to dialogue. In fact, I should be somewhere else right now. What the heck, I have to answer the writing jones sometimes.

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Well, I hope when you come back to this thread, you might find some help and some encouragement. Have a good day today, and I pray you'll be enriched by the responses you get here.


--Sean

Hello,

You said:

Since I have learned (to my great annoyance) that I do not have all the answers, I thought I would fish in this great sea of Christian scholarship to see what insights may be offered.

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I had to laugh when I read that because I can relate.

You asked:

So, how can a Christian know that he or she is being obedient to God's direction?

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Uncertainty is a failsafe mechanism when tempered by Faith.

You asked:

Another, more general question is, if God has given man free will, has he made an exception when it comes to man's capability of corrupting the Bible? If so, why does the bible warn man against altering it?

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So that we can't sue Him for lack of warning. .. Oh wait!! that's Worldly reasoning. Then again, would not worldly reasoning be a reason why?

I have discovered that His warnings serve as reminders for those who revere Him.

You said:

On the other hand, when I look at the bible's portrayal of Jesus: his life on earth, his divinity, his purpose, his love, and especially his redeeming death and resurrection, it has the unmistakable ring of truth to it. Whatever glitches there may be in the story, I'm buying it.

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Amen! Me to.

You asked:

It seems inconceivable to me that God would place us in a spiritual reality that requires death of "self", and child-like faith, without also providing a guidance system that leads to him. I am convinced that it exists, but what and where is it?

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In your heart. Definitely not in the head and it appears we've both discovered the truth of that the hard way.

You said:

Now, I realize that by publishing my uncertainty, I am inviting in the whole pack of dogmas. But be that as it may, I will sort through and see what I can find.

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Aren't dogmas those things best kept on a leash? Never fear! The world has an Ultimate Dogma Catcher and His Word is the leash. Whether or not we choose to hang ourselves with the leash or utilize it to maximize paradoxical freedom is of our will.

Sincerely,
Gehanna

check out Romans 8, there's a lot in there about living according to a sinful nature or in accordance with the Spirit. verses 26 and 27 have been my rock many times. the Spirit will intercede for us, it's a promise.
I'm not real good at quoting scripture precisely, but a few things that may help:
we are told not to lean upon our own understanding (you got that in your opening paragraph here), we are taught to seek Him with all our heart, and we are taught to be Christlike. the best place to learn about being Christlike is from Christ's own words..the Gospel of Matthew seems to have the most of His teachings, especially Matthew 5 (the Sermon on the Mount/Beatitudes) and don't forget the two great commandments in Matthew 22:37-40.
as for the infallibility of the word and free will, yes there has been much human tinkering with scripture through the centuries, but remember in the New Testament it is called the Living Word-which means it is a living entity when applied with Spirit-driven pursuit (back to seeking him with all our heart-now I have to find that verse). we are also told in the Gospel of John that the Christ is the Word of God-again, back to studying what He has taught us.

really..you could go around in circles, and you should..meaning, pour yourself into the Word and prayerfully and wholeheartedly seek Him and He will guide you with His Spirit. don't be afraid of any deceit that man has tried to weave into the story through time. if you commit yourself to a genuine pursuit of His will, I believe you are protected by your faith and heart for God.

and let us know if you come across any sudden lightbulbs of wisdom along the way-we are told to lift and edify each other.
my current quest is finding purpose above my daily struggles, and to take my focus off of my own trivial problems and find a way to somehow glorify God through this miniscule life I live.

I've been a Christian all my life, and I still wonder, and I still question. When will I stop? Probably never. Sometimes I think that if I could read the Bible correctly, I'd get the answers, but what's "correctly"? I fail more times than I succeed, so (being human) that means I don't read as much as I ought to.

One of my big quandaries through life is that God teaches us through His word that His will is to be sought for our lives. We don't wanna veer left if His path is to the right, and so forth. But why, then, during the time I desperately needed to know what His path was...why did He seem so far away? so reluctant (?) to provide guidance?

Looking back on those years, it seems to me I did see signposts, but either they were not clearly enough written, or I was too dumb to see their direction. I do vividly remember the frustration of seeking His will on my knees, on my face. I remember the pain and the tears, and the overwhelming feeling He was holding out on me. I felt alone when I knew I wasn't, and the whole experience was terribly distressing.

Thoughts?