No Room For God

I wouldn't worry about it. You may put some people off, but most Americans believe in some sort of God. If it's as understated as you say, no worries. It might have just hit the agent at a bad time.

In what context were these words used?

I remember when I was a kid, I read the Redwall books. They're in an abbey and there's hardly a mention of God or Christ at all. Now that I read it when I'm older, I find it a little ridiculous. Sure, I'm Jewish, but if I was offended by such things, I wouldn't have picked up a book about an abbey.

Is the book about the death of the bird? What is said about the afterlife? There are so many little contextual things, that would either make the claim that this was a religious book ridiculous or completely unreadable. If you're writing a picture book, than two or three words could be important, but in the context of an MG novel...

Well. I think we need details.

This is something I worry about in my own writing. It seems like anything that mentions God in a positive light is suddenly classified as Christian fiction. I'm a Christian, but I write novels that are definitely for the secular market. (Swearing, sex, violence, non-believing protagonists, etc.) I'm not out to convert people, but tough theological issues interest me and my characters grapple with them from time to time. I mean, doesn't everyone wonder at some point, "How could a so-called loving God permit innocent children to suffer?" I consider this part of life, not part of Christianity, but I worry that editors are going to see that in my writing and toss me in the "Christian fiction" barrel. And let me tell you, NOBODY in the Christian fiction market is going to pick me up.

Since when did referencing God suddenly knock you out of generalized fiction? I mean, that's like putting every book with a female MC in the "women's fiction" section.

Sorry to hear about the rejection, especially under the circumstances you described. Although I never read your ms, I don't think that you should take from this 1 rejection that it is a failure and toss it into the fire.

The words in question are but five total and if you were able to get it in front of an agent once, then you'll get it in front of another. If it's a concern, remove the words. If it is a true part of your writing and message then leave it in and don't compromise your beliefs.

I hope the newest submission goes well and don't allow just one agency to put your hard work into "limbo."

I'd be really interested to hear the context of those five words. It seems like an extreme response, but if let's say one of the five words was in a sentence like: "And this just proves that if a child doesn't believe in God he's going to hell. The end." then I could understand the problem.

And I am SO not saying that you did that, and obviously that example is a real exaggeration. My point is actually on your side, I can't think of what you could have written with so few references to god etc that could have put them off the MS, short of writing a line like I just did! Kind of weird.

Hedgetrimmer said:

Today I received a rejection from a large agency regarding the PB version of SWEETNESS. The agent had a lot of flattering things to say about the writing and the creativity but ultimately declined, stating that "I fear that with the religious bent, it would be difficult to take this to a commercial publisher." She went on to invite me to submit future work to her.

The word "God" and "prayed" are both mentioned twice in the text and the word "heaven" once. While the words are obviously of a religious nature, I had no idea they would be looked upon in an exclusive manner. Jesus Christ, yeah. But God?

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I don't believe in any kind of gods or deities, but this seems perfectly silly to me. There are lots of books and movies out there not written specifically for a religious market that mention religion, God, Heaven, all kinds of stuff. Some even have God as a character.

This person is nuts. Submit somewhere else and continue to march.

Based on what you've told us, I suspect this was a personal issue of the particular agent. I wouldn't change your ms or your targeted agencies... unless you get more rejections specifically citing this as an issue.

I'm an atheist myself, and I wouldn't balk at reading those words to my children.

Considering the kind words the agent had to say I'm surprised she didnt ask you to revise, and edit out the mentions of heaven and God. Out of curiosity - would you have if she had requested that?

Wish I had some good advice for you, HT. I'd love to see 'Sweetness' on shelves.

This is surprising to me. If anything, I thought the trend was for the secular markets to be more interested in things with a mildly 'religious' flavor. Maybe you should try submitting to some of the bigger houses that have religious "imprints"--this might be the middle ground for your book (eg. Baker Books).

Maybe this agent didn't necessarily feel uneasy about the mention of religion but perhaps felt that these references gave parts of the story an overly sentimental feel. From reading the snippets you posted, it'd be impossible for me to say if this is true because they're such short samples.

It's hard to believe that such infrequent references would give her so much pause. It's all subjective--someone else is bound to like the same elements.

I was worried about this issue when I submitted my ms to agencies--and my ms mentions God A LOT. I never had an agent tell me this was a problem--I suspect it WAS the reason some of them rejected the ms, but it ultimately got placed.

Good luck!

Well considering the context you posted, no clue. Maybe it was just an excuse. Again, weird.

Hedgetrimmer--Don't you dare change it! I can't imagine your wonderful writing, in the voice you use, NOT mentioning God. There's no separation of church and literature--just church and state. You're not some crazy evangelical preacher. Your book is beautiful. Your writing is evocative. It was a bad match for one agency. Get it to the right agency!

I thought the US market liked that sort of thing. That is definitely my perception as an outsider. I suspect the story wasn't for her and she perhaps found the flavour of the whole rather than the specifics not to her taste. There is no accounting for that after all.

I do know that a Christian writer I know in UK has been frustrated because any use of the word 'God' in a non fantasy context seems to set of alarm bells. I write fantasy and am v interested in theology so all my books are about belief one way or another. No one has ever challenged me on that but I think it would be difficult to ascertain my own beliefs from my stories. You can get away with a lot more general speculation in fantasy.
I am currently writing about ninth century Britain - a time when belief mattered and I am struggling a little to reconcile my magical story with the historic facts and with the tastes of readers. It's a bit of a dog's breakfast at the moment. I am mindful of the fact that the UK is a largely secular society and much more allergic to any casual reference to religion of any kind.

You probably just need to find a more sympathetic agent.

Hedgetrimmer said:

And when there was no sun, only the moon and stars above, I lifted my eyes to heaven and made my own special wish.

I kneeled and prayed that God watch over Sweetness, and to guide him home safely high above the clouds.

After days and weeks and many months passed by, I knew Mama had spoken the God-given truth.

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The writing is beautiful, no doubt about it, and I think the words fit the character perfectly. But, respectfully, I must say that as a public school teacher, I would probably pass on this book because of the reference. Not that I am trying to be PC, nor am I afraid of some parent storming in to complain--besides, they are far more likely to complain when we talk about Chinese astrology for the Lunar New Year.

But I feel that religion and spiritual belief are so personal, so much a part of a family's values, that I try very hard to respect that and not bring in books that seem to imply we all believe the same thing. Maybe I'm extra sensitive, since I was raised by an atheist and a Quaker...

I think the agent was not so far off base. From what you've written about the book on other threads, the main focus of the plot is the death of the bird and how the child comes to terms with her loss. The fact that prayer plays such a significant role in helping her find that acceptance makes it, in my view, a deeply religious book. And I do not mean that in any negative way. It is true, and honest, and acknowledges spirituality. There is, I'm sure, a market for such a book. But it may need a more targeted market. A publisher like Beacon Press, perhaps, that is not a Christian publisher--certainly not in any fundamentalist sense of the word!--but is focused on spiritual topics might be a better fit than a large commercial house.

Or the agent may be quite mistaken, and editors may be quite comfortable with the book on their lists. But I don't think the agent was wrong to call the book religious.

I made some brief references to God in my MG novel, but not to a specific religion. This is quote of the most "religious" part of my book. Basically these children experienced some difficult circumstances (disability, an alcoholic parent etc.) and, are questioning/searching for an explanation. The title of the novel is "Do I Have Any Say in This?" and the main theme is finding control within yourself.

“Do you think somebody’s watching out for us at all?” Elliot looked out the window towards the sky, “Sometimes, I think that if there is a God, that he doesn’t pay any attention to me or my family.”
“I believe somebody is watching us and listening to us,” replied Lise, “and I do believe in miracles, but I think sometimes God just sits there and watches and does nothing. Mom said once that maybe he wants us to learn how to fix things ourselves. Who knows?”
“I think about a lot of things I don’t usually think about lately,” said Elliot, “No matter how much I think or what questions I ask things still don’t really make sense. I could ask questions about my Mom, about God, even about the apple tree in our back yard until the cows come home and there still won’t be any answers. It won’t change anything either. The only thing I really have control over is myself. You taught me that, Lise.”

Lise gave Elliot a proud smile.

I hope this would not offend too many people.

I think opinions will differ depending on the publisher/agent. For instance, Judy Blume's "Are You There God, It's Me Margaret?" was somewhat controversial but eventually found a home.

Don't give up, Hedgetrimmer. Sometimes it takes awhile to find someone who really gets what you’re trying to do.

Thanks for posting that excerpt zeppelin123, I found it a beautiful read and it fits perfectly with your title. I'm certain it'll find the right placement before long.

I don't normally post in here, but felt compelled to offer thoughts from a parent who reads to her children. While I find religion references of any kind annoying when they are made in what I consider improper places (ie-work), I wouldn't hesitate to read this to my child.

I think children have the right to learn about all religions and make their own choice when they are adults. It shouldn't be up to some editor to make it for them.

I would have called him and said "Your Mama!"

Seriously-don't compromise for the sake of one person who has issues. Which brings us to my friend, the dyslexic atheist, who says "There is no dog!"

It is of course up to parents to decide what books are appropriate for their children. If books with religious themes or situations were more popular with parents, it is a fair bet that editors would find them more attractive. From my experience (in the UK) the market for religiously-themed children's books is extremely small, although I understand it's bigger in the USA - we're a pretty secular society these days.

Hedgetrimmer said:

Today I received a rejection from a large agency regarding the PB version of SWEETNESS. The agent had a lot of flattering things to say about the writing and the creativity but ultimately declined, stating that "I fear that with the religious bent, it would be difficult to take this to a commercial publisher." She went on to invite me to submit future work to her.

The word "God" and "prayed" are both mentioned twice in the text and the word "heaven" once. While the words are obviously of a religious nature, I had no idea they would be looked upon in an exclusive manner. Jesus Christ, yeah. But God?

I never thought this piece was heavily imbued enough with a religious view that it would interest a Christian publisher, but now I must reconsider. I also wonder if what I have created may exist in a state of limbo, too religious for the commercial market but not religious enough for the Christian market.

Last week I had already put a copy in the mail to Dawn Publications based on its nature theme, yet I did notice one of their books with the word "God" in the title. So maybe that may happen.

I recall when I posted the piece in SYW, the concern most people had (myself included) was that the death of the bird might be too harsh for young children. I tell you. If it's not one thing, it's another.

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She was just being careless with her words. She had no good reason to reject it but do to reasons beyond your control or hers she just was careless and said that to give you an explanation.
Keep it the way it is and resubmit it. No doubt you will get a better responce .