Ending on a cliff hanger?

Atlantis · Feb 16, 2008

Is it a good idea to end a book on a cliff hanger? I'm considering chopping my 1,000 page fantasy book into two seperate books. At the moment it is split into seven parts:

part one: Poseidon and Cleito's relationship; the birth of their son; the death of Cleito; the flooding of Atlantis; the prophecy of Zeus's demise; Poseidon and Cleito's son gets sent to the future

part two: Poseidon and Cleito's son reappears in 1990 Australia not a single day older and is adopted into a mortal family and given the name Dylan Thatcher

part three: Dylan as a teenager. In this part he begins to suspect that he might not be completely human. Poseidon and Zeus's respective camps begin to finally track him down.

part four: Dylan goes into hiding to get away from Zeus and begins to be trained how to use his powers by Clymene, a goddess working for his father Poseidon. Dylan gets attacked by three assassins, the Erinyes, who try to take him back to Zeus. He kills them. He is so traumatised by the event he runs away from Clymene and heads back home.

part five: Zeus and Poseidon ambush Dylan at his high school forcing him to choose a side. He picks Zeus.

part six: Zeus tries to convince Dylan to join with him with defeat Poseidon. He disagrees and tries to kill him to avenge Cleito. Zeus and Dylan fight. Zeus almost kills him. Dylan survives. Hera kills Zeus instead.

part seven: Poseidon and Dylan visit Cleito in Elysium. Hades uses his powers to reicarnate her. Dylan leaves his life among mortals behind to go and live with hsi father in Atlantis.

That's the bare bones version of the plot. Part One is almost like a seperate story within a story so for a long time I considered turning that into a seperate vol. but I think its a bit too small to be able to work as a single novel. I've decided to completely cut out part two. Parts 3 and 4 will probably be meshed together. I'll probably do the same for 5 and 6 but leave 7 as a single part.

If I was going to split the whole novel into two sepearte novels the place I would cut it would be at the end of part four when Dylan runs off after being forced to kill the assasins. That would leave vol 1. at a cliff hanger.

Is this a good idea? Is this frowned upon?

BenPanced · Feb 16, 2008

Atlantis said:
Is it a good idea to end a book on a cliff hanger? I'm considering chopping my 1,000 page fantasy book into two seperate books. At the moment it is split into seven parts:

<snip!>

That's the bare bones version of the plot. Part One is almost like a seperate story within a story so for a long time I considered turning that into a seperate vol. but I think its a bit too small to be able to work as a single novel. I've decided to completely cut out part two. Parts 3 and 4 will probably be meshed together. I'll probably do the same for 5 and 6 but leave 7 as a single part.

If I was going to split the whole novel into two sepearte novels the place I would cut it would be at the end of part four when Dylan runs off after being forced to kill the assasins. That would leave vol 1. at a cliff hanger.

Is this a good idea? Is this frowned upon?

If this is your first novel, don't do it. An agent and/or publisher would want to see a stand-alone project from a new author because there's no guarantee the first book would sell enough to warrant publishing the second.

Danger Jane · Feb 16, 2008

Nope; like Ben says, there's no guarantee that your first book will sell well enough to merit a sequel. Plus readers tend to get annoyed when a book ends on a cliffhanger. "You mean I have to wait how long to find out what happens?"

Matera the Mad · Feb 16, 2008

Interesting, and not a bad shortie synopsis at all. Just for a tuppence worth, I would start the whole thing with the adoption, and piece in any backstory when and if it mattered. Part One sounds as though it would read like prolonged prologue. The son of a Greek deity growing up in Australia seems pretty cool, Atlantis is old news.

Andrhia · Feb 16, 2008

Yeah, speaking as a reader, here, I vote don't do it. You'd lose a lot of goodwill among your readership that way.

BenPanced · Feb 16, 2008

Also?

You might be able to sell an entire series on the strength of the first book, but the first needs to have an open ending that doesn't hinge completely on the second and is satisfying on its own (see Star Wars: yeah, the rebels won but Darth Vader still might be out there). Depends on what an agent/publisher is/are looking for and how well the first one sells.

Death Wizard · Feb 16, 2008

If it's going to be a standalone, no cliffhanger. But if it's going to be more than one book, you should end with a cliffhanger. All five of my books have cliffhanger endings. But of course, book six doesn't.

MMWyrm · Feb 16, 2008

Not everything can be hanging off the cliff at the end of each book. I think that every book in the series must end satisfactorily, with enough interesting questions in the reader's mind to make them interested in continuing on.

I strongly dislike stories that are obviously only halfway done when I get to the end of the book.

maestrowork · Feb 16, 2008

First book should stand alone.

You'd think they would want to buy the next one to find out what happens... but more likely cliffhangers will piss off your readers and they won't buy your next one.

Fox The Cave · Feb 17, 2008

Don't do it. Sure, Simmons did it with Hyperion and Endymion - but he had an established fanbase and was already multi-published. You're don't and you're not.

Your first book can have a cliffhanger ending, but it must also be basically stand alone. Most of your plot threads must have been tied up. Like in mine, the main story is tied up by the end, but because of my MC's actions in the climax, he is now an extremely wanted man. The book ends with him breaking into a run - the cliffhanger is that he now is going to have to run for the rest of his life, which should invite more readers back to find out what happens next, but most of the story is still wrapped up so as to be a satisfying read.

dreamsofnever · Feb 17, 2008

Everyone else ruled in just as I would have. But I have to say-a Greey mythology based novel? With a character who ends up in Australia in the 1990s? That's awesome. I look forward to hearing more news of your WIP!

Definitely don't do the cliffhanger, but there are ways to leave the audience wondering and still wrap up a story so that it can stand alone. I also think that Part one should be worked into the narrative as backstory. You could have your character uncovering some of the history as he goes on his journey.

PM me if you post any part of this in SYW because I would love to see some

Fox The Cave · Feb 17, 2008

I also think that Part one should be worked into the narrative as backstory.

See that right there. That's what's called a great idea. Parts 1 and 2 should be cut and be woven into the story as backstory - start from where Dylan is a teenager. Where things actually get interesting.

Marian Perera · Feb 17, 2008

Atlantis said:
That would leave vol 1. at a cliff hanger.

Is this a good idea? Is this frowned upon?

I wouldn't recommend this for a first novel. My first is out on submission to editors, and the main plot, the protagonist vs. the antagonist, is tied up at the end of the book. The subplot, the romance, ends on something of a question mark (the hero and heroine reach an understanding, but can't agree on marriage). I want readers to be both happy and curious when they finish the story, so hopefully this will achieve that. If neither plotline was resolved at the end, I might expect the readers to be curious, but they certainly aren't likely to be pleased. The book is still being pitched as the first in a trilogy, since the other two novels in the series will be set in the same world.

Even Gone with the Wind resolves a plot at the end. Scarlett finally sees herself and the two men in her life clearly (something she never did before) and she makes the right choice, except it's too late by then. That gives the reader the necessary emotional reward, except in this case the reader's more likely to be sad than happy.

Bufty · Feb 17, 2008

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41628

Death Wizard · Feb 17, 2008

I guess I'm just a cliffhanger kind of guy. If Book 1 is wrapped up all neat and tidy, I'm less likely to want to read Book 2.

KTC · Feb 17, 2008

I think this is strictly a fantasy question. If I read anything other than fantasy and it ended on a cliff hanger...I'd ask for my money back. I'd be so severely pissed, Chapters would need to hire bouncers to get me out of the store. The manager would probably end up eating the book...and not because he/she would want to... but because I'd shove it down their throat. Blame the bookseller is what I always say.

Fantasy is a different animal. Go for it.

Claudia Gray · Feb 17, 2008

I think an out-and-out cliffhanger is a no-no. It irritates readers and denies them a conclusion.

I think you can, however, end with some suspense or the sense that something is unresolved. Just don't leave everything unresolved.

Danger Jane · Feb 17, 2008

Think of Harry Potter. At the end of book one, the major threat has been dealt with--Voldemort getting the Sorcerer's Stone--but he's still out there. The threat still exists.

Plus, you care enough about the characters that you want to read another book about them, even if you are able to comfortably believe that Voldemort is vanquished.

Dragon-lady · Feb 17, 2008

BenPanced said:
If this is your first novel, don't do it. An agent and/or publisher would want to see a stand-alone project from a new author because there's no guarantee the first book would sell enough to warrant publishing the second.

In fantasy that is not true. In fact the opposite is closer to accurate. However, I still wouldn't end on a cliff-hanger which irritates readers.

There is a thread in the agents forum where Lucienne Diver addresses this directly and comments that although she wouldn't TURN DOWN a novel because it doesn't have a sequel, it is something she looks for. This is expected in the genre.

However a cliff-hanger and "plot room" to continue are two different things. There should be a fairly satisfying ending for at least some of the plot issues so that the reader doesn't feel as though they were set up.

Marian Perera · Feb 17, 2008

Dragon-lady said:
However a cliff-hanger and "plot room" to continue are two different things. There should be a fairly satisfying ending for at least some of the plot issues so that the reader doesn't feel as though they were set up.

Agreed. I don't want to feel as though the entire story of every character just came to a happily-ever-after halt. On the other hand, I want a resolution of some kind. I can't think of any series I've read where every major plotline was still up in the air at the end of the book. Even the novels of A Song of Ice and Fire ended on satisfying notes - Dany's dragons hatching, Bran's safe escape from Winterfell, Catelyn's revenge on the Freys, Cersei's downfall. Leave room for a sequel, but don't leave everything unresolved.

Death Wizard · Feb 17, 2008

I think maybe I'm defining cliff-hanger differently than some of you. Of course you can't have every single plot-line of a complicated story left unresolved. I'm talking something more specific. The main character is dangling off the side of a cliff, clinging by her fingertips. She finally can hold on no longer. She starts to fall ... Up next, book two. That's the kind of cliff-hanger I'm talking about.

I'd rather have that than have her fall off the cliff, land in a lake, swim to shore, and wander back to town for a late-night snack ... then Up next, book two.

HeronW · Feb 17, 2008

There's always going to be people who want to know more about the characters you make up. A series tends to work better than a 'dead drop sequel comes later' promise.

Atlantis · Feb 17, 2008

Fox The Cave said:
See that right there. That's what's called a great idea. Parts 1 and 2 should be cut and be woven into the story as backstory - start from where Dylan is a teenager. Where things actually get interesting.

Hi. I've considered doing that but decided against it. Part one has to stay because the novel tells two stories---the father and the son. There are two main characters: Poseidon and Dylan. In Poseidon's story, he looses his soul mate, Cleito. The only thing he has left of her is their son, Dylan. He spends 3,000 years looking for him not only to get him back but to protect him from Zeus, who is nuts. In Dylan's plotline, its all about him being torn between two worlds, being forced to choose, struggling to accept his past and ulimately, Poseidon as his father. He was raised in PERTH Australia. PERTH! I come from Perth and its the last place you'll expect anything magical or exciting to happen. He grew up doing his homework and going to the movies on the weekend. He may have the powers of a god, but in his mind, he feels like a regular kid. Back to Part One. It DOES feel like a story-within-a-story but it has to stay. As for part two, though, that's gone....its not half as important...

Ending on a cliff hanger?

Atlantis

BenPanced

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Danger Jane

Matera the Mad

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