Novel with too much SEX?

sassafras · Feb 14, 2008

My fledgling WIP has a lot of (not quite explicit, but close) sex in it, but the sex itself is integral to the main storyline.

It's not 'gratuituous' type sex (erotica?) - meant for *ahem* one-handed-reading - although some of it, (always subject to change of course) - might be "hot" enough in places, to qualify - for SOME readers.

Without putting too fine a point on it - does too much sex DETRACT from an otherwise good storyline, even when the sex is integral to the plot?

Would an author who wrote such a work be taken less seriously (by agents/editors/publishers/reading public) than those who leave out the sex - or wrote a different TYPE of story altogether? And therefore, if the sexual content described was included in the storyline - would such a book be less likely to be published?

Do you think there would be a market for a book of this type? (outside the erotica genre). This book isn't erotica.

Opinions?

Thanks guys,
Sass

Claudia Gray · Feb 14, 2008

If it's truly important to your story, don't sweat it.

Sean D. Schaffer · Feb 14, 2008

As a reader, I think that if the sex is important to the telling of the story, then taking it out would detract from the story. To me, Story is King where fiction is concerned. If your story calls for sex, be it explicit or non-explicit, then write what the story calls for.

That's the best advice I can give. Whether or not it will sell on a wide scale, is a question I cannot answer ... although I'm sure you will get the answers to that question quickly enough.

Good luck to you, in any case.

--Sean

JamieFord · Feb 14, 2008

It's a question of decorum. Is your audience going to find it gratuitous? If so, lessen it. If not, go for it--but it really needs to be relevant to the story and not just plopped in to be salacious.

Red-Green · Feb 14, 2008

I'm getting ready to query a novel about a woman who collects antique photographs and stumbles across a collection of pornography from the 1920's. It contains quite a lot of rather graphic sexual description--some titillating, some sad--because that element is integral to the story.

There are plenty of readers who don't mind that. In fact, I'm annoyed with books where the author goes out of his/her way to avoid any sexual description. I believe it's Carol Berg's Sons of Avonar series that freaked me out. She's a talented writer, but when the wife/husband who have been separated for years--she thought he was dead--there isn't even any hint of sex. It was weird.

Sassee · Feb 14, 2008

If you've written it well it won't be gratuitous.

BTW, hi from another Sass

Oddsocks · Feb 14, 2008

As others have said, if it's necessary for the story, leave it in.

But also be aware that it might put some readers off, and the more there is/the more explicit it is, the more this will be the case. Personally, I prefer not to read overly sexful novels, so I guess it'd be a balance - if it comes across as being more than it needs to be, it could be a problem.

Zoombie · Feb 14, 2008

Never forget the power of the 12 year old pocket mining demographic.

In all seriousness, write it and then give it to a few beta readers, then ask them "Hey, does this work?"

Linda Adams · Feb 15, 2008

There are some books out there already with a lot of sex in them. It turns up in Urban Fantasy, and there can be quite a lot. Just make sure you have a little plot with your sex. There's an urban fantasy writer known for pages and pages of sex and no story.

seun · Feb 15, 2008

You won't please all your readers. Some will find it offensive; some will bash one out and others will just focus on how well you've written it. Stick to writing it well and forget the rest.

KTC · Feb 15, 2008

Sex is quite often silly in novels. Cheesy and cornball. When I come across it, it is often glaringly ridiculous. I don't read for titillation. If it's in there, it better be good...don't make me moan with how lame it is. Even the best writers can fall flat when trying to write a sex scene.

There is a market...because there are other books out there...but the key is to do is really well. Some readers will give up on the story if it's done bad.

Angelinity · Feb 15, 2008

SEX as such is still a taboo.

what is your target audience? what is your publisher / agent's? is the SEX scene congruous with the remainder of the writing genre/audience/style?

you do need to consider the sensibilities of your intended audience -- and those of your agent / publisher's... if you want it published (yes, I know you do, but have you already considered the fine points?)...

Shweta · Feb 15, 2008

I think the only way plot-relevant sex would put off anyone in your target audience is if it's badly-written.

In other news, I adore this tutorial* on how to write sex scenes**. Not saying you don't know how, just noting that it exists and it helped me a whole lot*** and gave me many giggles besides. It has Examples From Published Fiction. Including in the "don't do this" section :roll:

* By Rosina Lippi/Sara Donati. Unfortunately I can no longer find the index to the tutorial, but you can scroll down to the "next page" bit. I think they're all fairly close together in the blog.

** Warning:explicit stuff does get covered. Or uh, uncovered.

***for a story in which sex did not actually happen, but you know, a relationship warmed up :e2paperba

What? Yes, I'm a married woman who's embarrassed about this stuff. Cultural background. But if the story needs it...

sassafras · Feb 15, 2008

Thank you to all who responded ... you've given me lots to think about.

As a first-time novelist - I don't want my work to be so controversial that no publisher will touch it.

Or conversely, (should I be so amazingly lucky to actually FIND a publisher who would want my book), I don't want to be pigeon-holed as a writer who ONLY writes novels with such strong sexual overtones.

I'm still tinkering with this one, but really wanted to know how you all felt about sexual content in your regular reading (ie: NOT erotica).

Since the idea came to me kind of 'full blown' - (and since the sex is pretty intregral to the plot), I'm finding it difficult to to tone it down too much and still have enough left to hang a decent, well developed story on.

It's possible that this idea is just too ambitious for me as a first time novelist, and that I need to put it on the back burner until I've 'grown' enough (as a writer), to do it justice.

At any rate - I appreciate all the replies. And thank you Shweta for that link - very interesting stuff - I've bookmarked it for later perusal.

Thanks guys!
Sass

PS - Hi Sassee ... nice to meet you, too!

Patrick L · Feb 15, 2008

My WIP has much sex because it is a major component of the protag's character. However, I don't go too deep into it--just enough to tantalize a bit. After the third draft, before I was ready to send it out, I had five readers look at it, and one even remarked that I could "flesh out the sex scenes a bit more."

But none of them had a problem with it. IMO, only you can decide if it's appropriate, because it is your story.

cethklein · Feb 15, 2008

Sex can definitely be over-done. I've never read a romance novel so my experience seeing graphic sex in books is more limited in scope. The best (well actually worst) example of it's use I can think of is the Earth's Children books by Jean Auel.

I had to read Mammoth Hunters in high school and liked it so much I read the others (through Plains of Passage anyway). The sex scenes are not only corny in some cases, but many have little to do with the story and feel like filler material. The books themselves are amazing but the sex scenes actually distract from the story in some cases. There were a few cases where it worked but more often than not they felt very out-of-place. Read them if you get the chance, or at least Mammoth Hunters or Plains of Passage as they are the wors offenders (haven't read Shelters of Stone so I don't know about it).

icerose · Feb 15, 2008

I'm personally a big fan of the kiss and turn out the lights. Where you can have a steamy hot scene leading up to the bedroom, but then I prefer to step out and let them do their thing.

I have one scene in one of my thrillers where the MC has just found out her Best friend has been murdered by a serial killer. She hasn't had hardly any sexual contact because she was repeatedly molested by her father which she killed in self defense after he killed her mother when they were trying to flee.

Anyway in this scene then she goes over to her boyfriend's home, he comforts her and she ends up staying the night for the first time. I completely skip the steamy part and it's in the middle of the night, she's wearing one of his button up shirts and she's crying in a dark corner. He wakes up and pulls her into his arms and it's the first time she's been able to grieve with someone. It's the first time she's been able to show how vulnerable she is, and that is far more important to the story IMO then showing them in the act.

But that's just me, it's your story. If I were reading your book high chances are I would set it down or skip the scenes all together, but I haven't read your book so I can only use past experience.

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 15, 2008

The question is, is it central to the plot? Yes, people have sex in real life. They also eat in real life, and read books in real life, and watch TV in real life, and go shopping in real life. They take showers and get haircuts and brush their teeth. But nobody puts all of that in every book, just in the interest of realism.

The next question is, does it advance characterization? The "he put his shining this in her glistening that" doesn't tell us anything about the characters involved. If a sex scene does reveal things about the characters, it's probably worth keeping.

The most important questions are, is it gross? Is it boring? Not everyone is going to dig everything, but try to read the stuff with new eyes (or go over it with a writer's group, or share it here) and see whether it works or not.

You have to write the story you want to write. If that story has lots of sexual encounters in it, then you'll need to write about those.

Charlie Horse · Feb 15, 2008

I'm not sure I've ever seen "Too much" and "Sex" in the same sentence.

Seriously though, sex sells. As long as you're not writing junk and it's relevant to your story don't worry, be happy.

aruna · Feb 15, 2008

Charlie Horse said:
I'm not sure I've ever seen "Too much" and "Sex" in the same sentence.

Seriously though, sex sells. As long as you're not writing junk and it's relevant to your story don't worry, be happy.

A couple weeks ago I was standing in front of the Bestsellers at W H Smith. I noticed that there were at least 6 books on that shelf that were either Memoirs of a Call Girl, or Memoirs of a Street Girl, or Memoirs of a Luxury Whore, or something of that sort. So for that week at least sex certainly sold.

A moved away and a few minutes later two women stood in front of the same shelf and they, too, counted the number of Female Sex Memoirs on the bestseller chart. I laughed and made myself known as equally amazed. We had a short conversation at the voyeuristic trend of literature, and parted company.

So you want to sell? Write a first person sex memoir novel. It will sell. But by the time it comes out the trend will probably be over.

The argument that "it is part of life so it has to be described" doesn't jell for me. Giving birth is also part of life. Do we describe the birth of every child in our novels? Fact is, most of us KNOW WHAT HAPPENS. So I agree with the following:

Yes, people have sex in real life. They also eat in real life, and read books in real life, and watch TV in real life, and go shopping in real life. They take showers and get haircuts and brush their teeth. But nobody puts all of that in every book, just in the interest of realism.

The next question is, does it advance characterization? The "he put his shining this in her glistening that" doesn't tell us anything about the characters involved. If a sex scene does reveal things about the characters, it's probably worth keeping.

If you want to titillate your readership, all well and good. There is a good market for that. Just write it well (very difficult!).

But there is also a market for great love stories where the sex is kept behind locked doors. I am acquainted with a top British bestselling writer of women's fiction. She told me that she gets tons of letters from readers grateful that she doesn't feel it necessary to describe it all in detail.

So there is a readership there as well.

Juniper1 · Feb 15, 2008

I've been interested in reading the responses to your query as I am also partway through a first novel and puzzling over similar concerns. For me it has been a question of balancing the need for acknowledging sex as a way in which my characters relate to one another with the need to not let it overshadow the story. I'm not really interested in authoring a novel that is best known for a handful of dogeared pages.

For me it has boiled down to a single well thought out scene that is pivotal to a relationship and requires a certain degree of description to make it work (meaning it doesn't have quite the same impact to say "So we did it and boy was it great. What a nice guy."). I don't feel that the rest of it needs the same fleshing out (okay, wrong choice of words), it can just be suggested by conversation or action. Extensive description would have felt gratuitous to me in my story.

As a reader I have generally found that one well written scene can work well. Lengthy scenes that occur with great regularity can become tedious because it either doesn't expand my knowledge of a character and/or starts to sound the same.

Good luck sorting it all out.

Meerkat · Feb 15, 2008

Why isn't this damn thing for sale yet? I just checked Borders for like the third time since yesterday afternoon, and it's still not on the shelves...what is TAKING so long?

Elodie-Caroline · Feb 15, 2008

Hi Sass,
I recently finished the sequel to my first novel (but am joining the two as one). I asked a lady friend of mine to read my work for me, she is 63 years old, been married for nearly as long as I've been on this earth and she's also an ex schoolteacher who read as many books as there are days in the year. Anyway, I asked her if there was too much sex in my novel, as I don't want to tie myself down in the erotica category. This lady told me that it's sexy but not erotic; so I think there are ways of writing sex and not making it look like sex for sex's sake. I don't write graphic descriptions of the acts, I mostly settle for the conversations surrounding it and little bits leading up and from the sex. So I think it can be done if treated with sensitivity.

Elodie

aruna · Feb 17, 2008

Elodie-Caroline said:
I don't write graphic descriptions of the acts, I mostly settle for the conversations surrounding it and little bits leading up and from the sex. So I think it can be done if treated with sensitivity.

Elodie

That would be quite enough for me.
What I hate is when sex is used as a metaphor for love. When the couple meet, are attracted; next thing, they're in bed doing it, and it was great, fantastic, mind-blowing. Hey, they're in love! Get it?

But nothing is done to show me the emotional build up of that love. There is no tingle, no longing, no mystique. IMO mystique is best created by holding back, instead if letting it all hang out.

I discovered this way before i started writing myself. I read a book about two decades ago, which was supposed to have a very sad ending. It was about an older woman and it went back into the past to show her One Great Love. However, all it did was show them having great sex, very graphically. And at the end of the story I was curiously unmoved by what was supposed to be so tragic. I tried to figure out why, and since then have been researching the phenomenon I noticed: the more sex replaces the actual love relationship, the less I care about the characters, the less likely I am to cry when they break up or whatever. Perhaps it is the fact that I have been practically eavesdropping in their intimate moments? Whatever. I much prefer the tension that comes from keeping them apart for as long as possible. Don't let them even get near each other! Make them long and pine, but never get to touch! That, for me, is the secret to a great love story, and what I try to do.

Elodie-Caroline · Feb 17, 2008

For me, with my non-graphic sexy scenes, I concentrate on the emotions behind them and why they are doing it, I am showing my readers how much they love one another. In fact, my scenes are the lead up to and the leading away from them making love, not just having sex.
Love and sex are two totally different things to me and anyone who reads my story would know that my characters weren't making love just for the thrill of it.

Leaving people pining for one another may very well work for your stories, but it would ruin the relationship with the people in mine. I wrote it the way it needed to be told.

Elodie

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