Commas: US vs. UK

Maryn · Feb 14, 2008

I'm proofreading something for an online friend whose native language is not English. I'm pretty sure her intended market for this essay is in the UK rather than the US, or perhaps for the English-speaking market in Europe, if there is such a thing.

Anyway, I know that in the UK commas go outside quotation marks intended to indicate a word used unconventionally (She gave great "advice", including to screw myself.)

What about dialogue? Does the comma follow the US practice, inside the quote? ("Maryn thinks the comma goes inside the quote," AW said.)

Any other comma or other punctuation differences between the US and UK that I should be aware of?

Maryn, not wanting to steer an aspiring writer wrong

ascribe · Feb 14, 2008

My vote's on the comma going inside the quote, but we're talking grammar here, so someone's gonna disagree.
Standing well back.

dpaterso · Feb 14, 2008

Huh? I always put the commas inside quotes, that's where they're supposed to go! Damned if I can find the entry in Elements of Style but I'm sure I saw it there once upon a time...

I could be wrong, but I believe the last item in a list separated by commas also gets a comma before "and" in the UK, whereas in the USA the last comma isn't used?

-Derek

Dawnstorm · Feb 14, 2008

There's no difference in dialogue punctuation between AE and BE as far as I can tell.

***

BE tends not to use the serial comma (unless it helps avoid ambiguity), but the serial comma isn't wrong in Britain either. The editors of the OED suggest using it, which is why you'd also hear it referred to as the Oxford comma.

***

I'm not aware of any other differences, especially since punctuation isn't as strictly regulated as, say, spelling.

Sandi LeFaucheur · Feb 14, 2008

Actually, there is a difference in dialogue punctuation. Maryn is correct in both her examples. I can't think of any other differences right now.

maestrowork · Feb 14, 2008

Even in the UK, the comma goes inside the quote when it's dialogue. However, the quotation marks could be single or double:

'That is exactly what I mean,' Maryn said.

Maryn's first example is correct as well: It is 'comma', not 'coma'.

(Ray, who has 18 years of British schooling)

Bmwhtly · Feb 14, 2008

It would seem that when Grammar reached the Americas, you still recognised the sovereignty of the Queen.
Hence, the same rules apply here and there.

Maryn · Feb 14, 2008

I'd make a snappy comeback if I could think of one. I just wanted you to know that.

Maryn, vacant in the brain department after proofreading and correcting all morning

Sandi LeFaucheur · Feb 14, 2008

Maestro, I read your reply, then reread what I said. Lack of oxygen to my brain. Clearly Maryn's first example was not dialogue quotes.

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 14, 2008

Do commas never go inside "scare quotes" in the UK?

dpaterso · Feb 14, 2008

What are "scare quotes"? Should I be scared?

Bm, the Queen doesn't actually make up the rules about grammar usage, that's just a saying.

-Derek

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 14, 2008

dpaterso said:
What are "scare quotes"? Should I be scared?

I'm scared that you have a photo from Exit to Eden. Dan Aykroyd in leather--do not want!

Scare quotes are quotation marks (a/k/a "inverted commas") that are meant to show the author's distance from the words he or she is using.

cmyk · Feb 14, 2008

One thing that relates tangentially to the use of commas is the British English preference for "which" where we would say "that".

Example: The door which Jane walked through leads to the garden.

This would be correct in British English. You would not either put a comma before which, therefore making the assumption there is one door, or change it to "The door that ..."

Or I could just have used the example "One thing which relates tangentially ..."

pdr · Feb 14, 2008

Quotes?

Well, it's a long time ago but I was taught in a British school that when quoting others or poetry etc. one used the single quotation mark. ' Punctuation went outside the quotes if it was not part of the quote.
e.g. The rain fell heavily and Ruth laughed. "What was it Chaucer said, something about 'April with his showers so sweet'?"

If it was speech then speech marks were used " and punctuation went inside them.
e.g. "Stand up at once," the master yelled.

dpaterso · Feb 15, 2008

I can't say the "which/that" usage dings a bell, maybe the garden door thing is just too extreme an example.

pdr's examples follow how I'd write these lines. Tho' I'd use exclamation mark not comma with, "Stand up at once!" the master yelled.

UK publishers swapped from using double quotes for dialogue to single quotes sometime in the 1970s. I recall the first time I encountered this strange new pretentious conceit, and how my addled brain struggled to accept what my schooling told me was wrong, wrong, wrong. To this day I still don't like reading single-quote dialogue; every time I see an apostrophe I think it's the end of the spoken sentence. Mind you, I think it's the publishers/typesetters who launder the text, authors still submit mss. with regular double-quote dialogue.

-Derek

Priene · Feb 15, 2008

dpaterso said:
Mind you, I think it's the publishers/typesetters who launder the text, authors still submit mss. with regular double-quote dialogue.

Is it just that some authors still using double quotes, or are double quotes still the accepted format for all British manuscripts?

In other words, do I have to CTRL-R through my entire WIP?

pdr · Feb 15, 2008

It seems...

that speech marks " are still standard in the UK and it's only the printed work that has changed.

I submit all my manuscripts with speech/dialogue enclosed with speech marks and no one has complained or asked me to correct them in proofs. And some magazines still use the 'old way' and you can see speech enclosed by " and not the quotation mark '.

Mr Flibble · Feb 15, 2008

Is it just that some authors still using double quotes, or are double quotes still the accepted format for all British manuscripts?

In other words, do I have to CTRL-R through my entire WIP?

I use single quotes, I must admit, and a quick check through my modern british books shows that is how they are printed too. I doubt you'd get your story thrown out just for that

edit: I'm just going to check on that. I'll let you know when I have the answer from the horse's mouth.

Mr Flibble · Feb 15, 2008

And here we have it, from a UK agent

It doesn't matter at all. I don't even notice. When it comes to publication, UK publishers use single quotes, US publishers double. If you see double quotes in a UK book, it means it has been offset from the US edition, rather than set by a UK typesetter.

Words matter.

maestrowork · Feb 15, 2008

I've read Nick Horby's novels using either " or ' -- now that explains it. He probably uses mostly ' but the US typesetters changed them to ".

AncientEagle · Feb 18, 2008

dpaterso said:
I could be wrong, but I believe the last item in a list separated by commas also gets a comma before "and" in the UK, whereas in the USA the last comma isn't used?

-Derek

Not necessarily so. Most newspapers eliminate that last comma, but not all publications otherwise. I use it habitually, and my editor at the newspaper kindly removes it for me.

Commas: US vs. UK

Maryn

I Tried

ascribe

I...love...rejections

dpaterso

Patent pending

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here

Sandi LeFaucheur

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Bmwhtly

Yes, I'm back.

Maryn

I Tried

Sandi LeFaucheur

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

dpaterso

Patent pending

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

cmyk

pdr

dpaterso

Patent pending

Priene

Out to lunch

pdr

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

AncientEagle

Old kid, no need to be gentle.