"To be" or not "to be"...

Pat~ · Feb 13, 2008

I've been noticing a new trend lately--and wondered if somebody changed the rules and I'm just slow in catching on. So let me ask you...which of the following sentences sounds correct to you:

1. This needs moved to another room.
2. This needs moving to another room.
3. This needs to be moved to another room.
4. all of the above
5. 1 and 2
6. 2 and 3
7. 1 and 3
8. ask Dawno

TheIT · Feb 13, 2008

6, but I prefer 3. 1 is incorrect.

oneblindmouse · Feb 14, 2008

TheIT said:
6, but I prefer 3. 1 is incorrect.

Exactly.

Duncan J Macdonald · Feb 14, 2008

Three and only three!

CaroGirl · Feb 14, 2008

I don't really like "needs to", I prefer to replace it with "must". In which case, only 3 would be correct. Otherwise, both 2 and 3 are correct.

dobiwon · Feb 14, 2008

Duncan J Macdonald said:
Three and only three!

I couldn't agree more.

My opinion as to why 2 isn't correct: "This" doesn't need anything active.
What "This" needs is something passive--being moved, not moving.

CaroGirl · Feb 14, 2008

That construction, something "needs moving", is grammatically correct but is far more commonly used outside the US, I believe.

It's very common for UKers, for example, to say things like, "This needs doing before you go to work" rather than "This needs to be done".

maestrowork · Feb 14, 2008

It's a regional thing to say "this chair needs moved." A lot of Pennsylvanians say that: "My car needs washed today." And it's incorrect. I've never heard "this car needs washing today" -- maybe "this car needs some washing today." I'd go with "this car needs to be washed today."

benbradley · Feb 14, 2008

Sometimes I get that feeling of turning into flashing iridescent crystals and then showing up somewhere else. It has something to do with Dawno's dilithium ears.

Hold onto your hats, this is being transported to another room.

benbradley · Feb 14, 2008

maestrowork said:
It's a regional thing to say "this chair needs moved." A lot of Pennsylvanians say that: "My car needs washed today." And it's incorrect. I've never heard "this car needs washing today" -- maybe "this car needs some washing today." I'd go with "this car needs to be washed today."

Then there's my ~~friend~~ ~~aquaintance~~ ... someone I heard about in prison who kept on saying "I was railroaded! He needed killin'."

C.bronco · Feb 14, 2008

Though I sincerely wanted to vote for Dawno, I had to vote my conscience: 3.

benbradley · Feb 14, 2008

CaroGirl said:
That construction, something "needs moving", is grammatically correct but is far more commonly used outside the US, I believe.

It's very common for UKers, for example, to say things like, "This needs doing before you go to work" rather than "This needs to be done".

It does sound strange in that an inanimate object "has a need."

I heard this phrase when I was on the edge of the New Age movement: "Are your needs being met? Are your needs being met?" Hey Bee-otch, it's none of your effin' bizness whether or not my 'needs' are being met!

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 14, 2008

maestrowork said:
It's a regional thing to say "this chair needs moved." A lot of Pennsylvanians say that: "My car needs washed today."

Yep. It's a German-ism. It's very common in Pennsylvania and the parts of Ohio where there are Amish folks.

I've never heard "this car needs washing today" -- maybe "this car needs some washing today." I'd go with "this car needs to be washed today."

"X needs gerund" is the US version of the UK idiom "X wants gerund". See here, in E. Nesbit: "We love our dog, even when his face wants washing."

Pat~ · Feb 18, 2008

Thanks for your input, all. I personally go for 2 and 3, though I prefer #3. Just had encountered a lot of #1 lately, and was checking to make sure I hadn't missed something.

Soccer Mom · Feb 19, 2008

Danalynn · Feb 21, 2008

I agree. # 3.
(Hey! I'm a poet, and I didn't even know it!)

I'm in Southwest Ohio, and yes, that's what we would say....

"My car needs washed today."

Judg · Feb 21, 2008

Hmm, I'm in Pennsylvania right now. I'll have to listen for #1. I thought it was thrown into the poll for argument's sake.

Joycecwilliams · Feb 21, 2008

maestrowork said:
It's a regional thing to say "this chair needs moved." A lot of Pennsylvanians say that: "My car needs washed today." And it's incorrect. I've never heard "this car needs washing today" -- maybe "this car needs some washing today." I'd go with "this car needs to be washed today."

Just take the car to the car wash...

Appalachian Writer · Feb 21, 2008

According to the late Dr. Rita Riddle, poet and writer, "this" should never be used as the subject of a sentence. This "dog", this "muppet", this "something," but this should be followed by a noun. Forgiving that breach, I would think that number 3 is correct, although using a gerund phrase as a direct object is okay as well. However, the infinitive works best for me.

Judg · Feb 21, 2008

Dr. Rita was wrong.

Lance_in_Shanghai · Feb 22, 2008

The late doctor was out, I take it, when Winston Churchill said, "This was our finest hour." I am fascinated by some of the grammar, word uses and pronunciations in Pennsylvania, particularly in Pittsburgh. Yeah, youz guys are funny. People in northern England and the Appalachian Mountains have an old style form of "He be a friend of mine," and "I best be going," for "I must be going." Both were accepted forms four hundred years ago.

I have heard the form of 3 virtually every time I hear such a construction from an American and both 2 and 3 from British speaking friends. It seems not much different from the two choices "I like washing my dog's face," and "I like to wash my dog's face." By the way (or by the bye?), not only does a chair never feel any need to be moved, neither does a dog's face feel a need to be washed. But, as they say in those old mountains, "I reckon I'll set a spell in that there chair after yer plumb done movin' it," and "I'm fixin' to warsh his doggone face."

"To be" or not "to be"...

Which is correct?

This needs moved to another room.

This needs moving to another room.

This needs to be moved to another room.

all of the above

1 and 2

2 and 3

1 and 3

ask Dawno

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