Talcott Notch Literary Services

[Stace001]

I have recently received a promising response from Talcott Notch Literary. I was curious if anyone has had any dealings with them. Any info would be great

[emeraldcite]

I haven't had any dealings with them, but here are some resources and some facts you can dig up with a little research:

check: Preditors & Editors (http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/)

You'll find that they list Talcott as having an excellent newsletter.

After searching their site, I found only one mention of a sale (this isn't a sinker, just looking for the facts). This sale is to Genesis Press, a privately owned african-american publisher that does not require an agent to submit.

The site states that the "President and Executive Editor" of this agency

has successfully placed manuscripts with such major publishers as Dell, Avon, Bantam, Berkley, Kensington, Walker and Harlequin Books.


The next site to check would be Agent Verification (http://www.agentresearch.com/cgi-bin/agent_verification/dbspace.cgi)

This agency is not listed as one of their experienced agents.

Finally, search to see if they are a member of the AAR (http://www.aar-online.org/)

Talcott is not a member.

Also, check Writer's Beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

I didn't see anything on there, but you may want to give a closer look.

Of course, what can you get from all this info? I'm not sure; i'm not making the decision. But, as the GI Joe cartoon of my youth always said, knowing is half the battle. With a little research, you can be a little more informed. Toss the name of the agency and the agents into Google (http://www.google.com) with various permutations, and you might find more info. Hopefully, Dave or Victoria comes along with more info.

Good luck with your submission. Hopefully things work out.

[vstrauss]

I've been told by reliable sources, including a former client, that Ms. Panettieri ran a different agency a number of years ago, and made a number of commercial sales. However, there apparently were problems with financial management, and authors weren't receiving the payments due them (I was told the police were involved in one case). Ms. Panettieri eventually went out of business. She started up again a couple of years ago with Talcott Notch.

I'm aware of only about five or six sales for her in the two or so years since she started Talcott Notch, all apparently to independent publishers that accept submissions direct from authors. There's nothing wrong with placing books with good small publishers, but the real test of an agent is getting in where the author can't--i.e., to large commercial houses. Also, six sales in two years isn't a strong track record. A new agent should begin making regular sales to a variety of publishers within six months to a year of starting up. Any longer suggests that the agent lacks contacts.

- Victoria

[Stace001]

Thank you for the information. I have done a little research on them myself, but I thought here would be a good place to get the 'hands on' info. Thanks to both replies. The information was really helpful.

[Sahzee7]

Gina Panettieri of Talcott Notch has expressed interest in reading my manuscript. In Publishers Markets: Rights and News Offerings, she has 14 offerings. What does this mean since she's not a publisher? Is she offering all rights to unpublished manuscripts because they haven't been placed with a publisher? I'm new to message boards, so I don't know where this is going to appear!

[vstrauss]

>>In Publishers Markets: Rights and News Offerings, she has 14 offerings. What does this mean since she's not a publisher? Is she offering all rights to unpublished manuscripts because they haven't been placed with a publisher?<<

Yes. The listings on Publishers Marketplace are for unsold rights. If she's offering all rights to these mss., it means no rights have yet been sold.

For her recent publisher placements, you can check here: www.publishersmarketplace...nterwood/. (http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/members/wynterwood/.) As you can see, recent sales are few, and all to publishers that accept submissions direct from authors--as opposed to the large houses that put out the series listed under "Best-Known Projects". I believe that all of those projects are from her previous agency, and involve books placed a number of years ago before that agency went out of business (there's an earlier thread here about that).

- Victoria

[Stace001]

I too received word that Gina was interested in my manuscript, however after some research I discovered she has no record of ever making a sale. I would advise you to keep looking for an agent and bypass this one. She has been in business for quite some time, so not having made a sale is not a good sign.

[James D Macdonald]

Gina's made sales. It's just that her impressive ones are not recent, and her recent ones are not impressive.

[Kyrah Malan]

Here's another one who requested a proposal in response to my query. I can't find anything on them; Preditors and Editors only says, "excellent newsletter." Has anyone had experience with them? Thank you.

[Kyrah Malan]

Oops. Sorry, I just figured out how to do a search. NM!

[Kempo Kid]

Gina has posted on another writing forum, and she strikes me as being level-headed and sensible. She requested my full manuscript on the basis of a query letter, so admittedly I'm biased.

But get this. I sent the ms. to her priority mail, and two days after it got there, her office sent me an e-mail confirming receipt. I have NEVER had that happen before. Half the agents I queried this goaround never even bothered to acknowledge my queries, even with a SASE.

Bottom line, they certainly strike me as being on the up and up.

[vstrauss]

There's question about this agency, though, including the agent's troubled past history and her apparent difficulty, so far at least with this new venture, in making sales. Talcott Notch has been in business at least since the spring of 2002, and to date it appears to have placed only six or seven books, all with smaller publishers that don't require authors to be agented. There's nothing wrong with selling manuscripts to solid independent publishers, but the real test of an agent is getting in where the author can't: i.e., to the large houses. So far, there's no evidence of this with Talcott Notch.

- Victoria

[Kyrah Malan]

Thank you Victoria. That was my concern as well. I've already queried the appropriate small- to mid-sized publishers myself; I want an agent who will get in where I can't!

[Kempo Kid]

What troubled past history? She doesn't have a warning on P&E next to her name. Expand, please?

[Kempo Kid]

According to her web site, she's sold books to Dell, Harlequin, Avon, Bantum, etc. Those are big publishers. I'd be perfectly happy to have my novel published by Avon.

[Kyrah Malan]

Yes, but apparently that was in "the old days" when she was operating a different agency. Seems none of the big publishers will touch her now, even though her new agency is above-board.

[Kempo Kid]

I'm totally confused here. What "old days"? What are you talking about? Why won't the publishers touch her now? Should I not sign with her? So far she's the only one who's requested a full, and I'm waiting for her response.

What did she do wrong?

If you have information on why writers shouldn't sign with her, this is the section to list it in.

[Kempo Kid]

Stace, did you ever sign up with Talcott Notch? They are interested in my manuscript--in fact, they're the only ones who are--and I'm unsure what to do at this point.

Has anyone here ever actually had Gina as their agent?

[Kyrah Malan]

Rather than re-tell the whole story, I suggest you do a Search, as I did. There's a whole thread on it. Best of luck.

[Kyrah Malan]

Here's part of what was previously posted:

"I've been told by reliable sources, including a former client, that Ms. Panettieri ran a different agency a number of years ago, and made a number of commercial sales. However, there apparently were problems with financial management, and authors weren't receiving the payments due them (I was told the police were involved in one case). Ms. Panettieri eventually went out of business. She started up again a couple of years ago with Talcott Notch.

I'm aware of only about five or six sales for her in the two or so years since she started Talcott Notch, all apparently to independent publishers that accept submissions direct from authors. There's nothing wrong with placing books with good small publishers, but the real test of an agent is getting in where the author can't--i.e., to large commercial houses. Also, six sales in two years isn't a strong track record. A new agent should begin making regular sales to a variety of publishers within six months to a year of starting up. Any longer suggests that the agent lacks contacts.

- Victoria "

[DaveKuzminski]

In all fairness, this background information is quite true. P&E is aware of it.

P&E has removed a previous negative recommendation for her and her agency because she now arranges for author payments to be paid directly from the publisher to the author. P&E is still closely monitoring their activities.

I must admit that I have not heard of any restitution as yet to those authors she formerly represented. I can hope only that it was or that it is in the process of being rectified as those are the only circumstances that will warrant P&E's continued current neutral stance concerning that agency.

[Kempo Kid]

This is depressing. It's said that it's better to have no agent than a bad agent, so I guess it's back to square one for me.

Thanks everyone for the information. I guess it's best to know now.

:head

[Stace001]

No Kempo, I never did sign up with them. I've since had some futher promising replies from other agents, so I've decided to wait to hear from them.

I have tried to contact Gina regarding my partial ms, however she never has replied to my emails, and I didn't take this as a good sign. Good luck.

[spywriter]

I sent her my query and Gina told me "NO THANKS". Funny, but Al Zuckerman was interested though.

[gpanettieri]

I must respond to some of the comments made on this forum.

Dave, I've emailed you privately, but I need to address these issues here, to refute any impression you may have left. As much as I respect you, I have to say I certainly do not owe restitution to anyone, and I admonish anyone for making comments of this nature without first checking the facts. I run a thoroughly professional agency, and as you yourself have stated, I work on split payments directly at the publishers, so I do not even handle clients' funds. Clients are paid at the exact same time as I am, and each party receives identical statements so I can check and verify the information and statements.

I have worked successfully in the publishing industry for a very long time. I am solicited daily by editors at major publishing houses for projects I represent. And though I do at times work with indie and smaller publishers for projects appropriate to them due to the untraditional or ground-breaking types of material, I also work just as well as larger publishers, and the emphasis of this agency has been shifting as the types of work we're taking on also shifts and grows.

If anyone can point to a single instance where there's been any issue with Talcott Notch, I'd be happy to discuss it. Certainly, having been active for more than a year, if there were anything to complain about, you'd be hearing about it. A more thorough search will reveal a lot list of positive comments made by dozens of writers.

[Kyrah Malan]

Gina, thank you for giving us your perspective; it certainly makes for a more balanced thread. I think the bigger question that came up is not whether Talcott Notch is an honest agency, because everyone agrees that it IS, but whether your agency is actively selling to the big houses. Would you be willing to list titles you've sold to the big publishing houses in the last 12 months? A definite X was sold to Y, Z was sold to D, would put the whole matter to rest once and for all. Again, thank you for your participation.

[CaoPaux]

I am solicited daily by editors at major publishing houses for projects I represent.
The MPHs solicit you daily for mss, but you don't sell to them. Why?

[gpanettieri]

Regarding whether or not I, or any other agent, requests a manuscript, that's a completely meaningless comparison. I have been extremely selective about what I'm taking time to look at lately, and am only requesting a very few projects. Agents work in different areas, and have different likes and dislikes. Just as I've taken on, and sold, a couple of projects other agencies turned down, I've seen a number of projects I've either seen and rejected or couldn't agree to look at picked up by other agencies, though I don't have any feedback on whether those eventually placed. All agencies, and agents, have specific tastes. We don't all agree, in fact, we usually disagree. Put seven agents in a room and you'll get eight opinions.

I do work, as most agents do, with indies and smaller presses in addition to larger ones. That's because I'm willing to take risks and work with very speculative fiction and cutting edge material the largest publishers may shy away from, at least, at first. But with many fantasy, sci fi and alternative fiction, I would certainly consider that type of risk-taking to be a positive in an agent. How many writers of this type of work have been told their work isn't commercial enough? However, I must admit, the terms I've been getting placing these works as lead titles or series at these smaller or indie publishers surpasses the terms most first timers are getting as mid-list debuts at larger houses. They also get more attention, and have more chance to grow.

However, as with most things, as I've been growing and getting back into the industry over the last year, the types of work I've been getting in also changes and grows. And as that has happened, it's been more the larger and more commercial publishers who've been calling to solicit the projects. So, our agency focus has been shifting, as well. But we will never abandon the writers of cutting edge fiction. Some one needs to help them get started and make their name.

[gpanettieri]

Actually, as I'd recently posted, our shift has begun to change as the types of materials we're taking on and representing has begun to shift. This shift has happened over the last six weeks to two months as we opened up more to new work (we'd been considering very few projects while we were in the process of moving our offices to our new location closer to the City). We've also been blessed with having a number of well-known authors sign on with us in the last month. However, as most writers realize and agents have been commenting, the purchase process isn't nearly as rapid as it was fifteen years ago when I first started working in publishing. Things are done by committee. So, when an editor calls to ask for a project, you can still expect to wait weeks for a response, particularly if that answer is an offer. Sales projections need to be made, second reads and committee reads done, the list goes on, all before anything can happen.

I do post sales that I update periodically on my PublishersMarketplace web page, as well as our offerings, and will continue to do so.

[Kyrah Malan]

Does this mean TN has made no actual sales to BPHs in the last 12 months? That there are only projects being considered? Would you be willing to list titles sold to BPHs since its inception? I am sure your explanation of the lengthy process is accurate, but it doesn't address the question(s).

[gpanettieri]

Kyrah, you're correct. As of right now, today, the only sale in the last year which has been finalized and contracts delivered from a major house has been to Krause, which is F&W. The types of works I've seen and signed have been more appropriate to other publishers. So, that is where I placed them, and very favorably.

Think of it in terms of statistics. While I was in temporary quarters, I was agreeing to consider very few projects, knowing the complexity of the move ahead. Agents typically take on 1-2% of works they consider. So, how many projects would I be able to anticipate signing and selling? I've seen on another forum that most agents are selling only 5% of the works they sign. At that rate, I wouldn't have sold anything. Thankfully, my sales average is running extremely high. Now that I've relocated as of two months ago, I've finally really been able to work to establish myself again and begin to expand my offerings.

[gpanettieri]

I just wanted to add, since this is taking up a great deal of time that I need to work on, well, work, and I can't continue to debate issues, that the projects I'd taken on up until recently have been sold where they are best suited. Highly speculative science fiction and fantasy is often best-suited to indie and smaller publishers willing to break new ground and take chances. These works appealed to me, but were not suited to large commercial houses heavily invested in safe choices. Working outside the City, I am not as enslaved to overhead as to have to reject these types of projects in favor of only pursuing the commercial. I sign what I personally love, and I sell it to the publisher who will do the most, and best for it. And the terms I have gotten from those indies and smaller houses to place a project or series there as a lead, have been better than what a midlist debut would usually bring from a larger house, and with more personal attention for the author and more chance for growth.

Regarding one person's comment that the acid test of an agent is placing books in houses where agents are required, I suggest the acid test of an agent is getting a book sold where others were afraid to take the chance, but I got the job done.

[Kyrah Malan]

Thank you, Gina. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to our questions.

Now, all you lurkers can laugh your butts off at me :rofl for totally blowing my chances with Talcott Notch by being so pushy, but at least (I believe) that our concerns have been addressed and the whole matter can finally be "put to bed".

[CaoPaux]

Highly speculative science fiction and fantasy is often best-suited to indie and smaller publishers willing to break new ground and take chances.
:rollin

You're right, Kyrah. She has now made it quite clear what sort of agent she is.

[DaveKuzminski]

In my post above, I believe that I posed both a statement about my knowledge on the matter of restitution and a hope. Nothing more.

Since I have received an email about this as was also mentioned in a later post, I will answer here to avoid any appearances of conflict or favoritism on my part that might be caused by answering Gina privately.

To put it bluntly, I accept Gina's word that she has given restitution and does not owe any writers from those past events. Her remarks here and in her email to me are sufficient. After all, if she's not telling the truth, she'd be sinking her career for good because anyone who is owed would certainly contact me and offer proof.

[Wandering Sensei]

Is this agency still in business? By Gina's request, I sent her a full manuscript back in September. She e-mailed that she should be able to get back to me by the end of October. That was the last I head, and that was several months ago. Well, obviously I've been rejected, but I'm really pretty ticked off that she didn't have the grace to even return the manuscript. Postage is not free.

[Sheryl Nantus]

they asked for a partial from me on January 19 of this year - I sent them the 50 pages and am waiting...

I heard on one of my mailing lists that another author was accepted recently, so I guess they're still in business - did you email them?

[DaveKuzminski]

Give her a quick reminder that you're still waiting for a response or return of the manuscript.

[victoriastrauss]

There are some older threads on this agency--worth looking up.

- Victoria

[Vomaxx]

She requested my partial on Nov. 9; I got a rejection (by e-mail) on Jan. 19.

[rejectME]

I had sent my manuscript, per Gina'a reuest, last spring. I followed up a few months later to chck on the status and I got a reply from people other than her. Then all of a sudden, I get a rejection e-mail from some person and another rejection by mail from the agent.
Obviously it's fairly normal to have assistants and whatnot, but this was as though everyone there, but the agent, had read the mss. Yet the agent wrote a letter of why she was rejecting the mss.
She was very nice, but it was odd.

Jerry

[Sheryl Nantus]

well, that'll teach me to open my mouth.

sent off a request asking for my novel's status and just got back a nice note from Ms P. herself - not interested and the partial is on the way back to me.

:(

ah, well... so it goes.

[DeadlyAccurate]

I tried to do a search, but this was the only thread that came up. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting the older threads to come up? I tried both "Talcott" and "Talcott Notch" in my search string.

[CaoPaux]

I haven't been able to get the search to work on old posts, either. But here are the threads I found by paging back.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=754

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=755

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=925

[victoriastrauss]

Edited 'cause Cao beat me to the punch.

- Victoria

[CaoPaux]

Coffee breaks have their uses. :Coffee:

[gpanettieri]

Sensei, my apologies if we haven't responded on your work, or returned it. Please email us for an update and note your email as urgent, directly to my personal email address gpanettieri@talcottnotch.net. We definitely understand the expense of producing manuscript copies and want to make certain anyone who has provided SASE gets their mss back. When inquiring about submissions, please indicate your name, the title and the approximate date of submission. We try to respond on all work within eight weeks, but never hesitate to request a status update.

My apologies to anyone we're late getting back to. We've been flooded with queries and email inquiries, and though we try to get to every one of them, often it's a challenge. We're at that rather pinched phase of business growth where we desperately need additional personnel to cover the work load, but I can't take time out to train an extra person. We're now currently severely limiting new submissions until we're back at the response time I feel comfortable with.

So, in answer to your question, yes, we're still in business. The newest client referred to in the earlier post is probably attorney Brette Sember, for whom we've placed Your Plus-Size Pregnancy to Barricade Books and a two-book deal for Gay Divorce and Gay Parenting with Career Press.

Again, our apologies for any late responses. If you do not hear within the anticipated time, please drop us an email, mark it urgent mss inquiry in the subject line, and we'll try to get back with the status immediately.

Gina Panettieri
Talcott Notch Literary
276 Forest Road
Milford, Connecticut 06460
203-877-1146

[CaoPaux]

Just a *ping* to test if a new post will make this visible to the search engine.

ETA: Duh! How 'bout I add some key words, like Talcott Notch and Gina Panettieri. :Headbang:

[victoriastrauss]

That seems to work, Cao.

- Victoria

[arkady]

I researched both Talcott Notch and Gina Panettieri thoroughly before querying them. I discovered that most of the complaints about them were based upon innuendo and half-truths, and that the "evidence" for either wrongdoing or unprofessional behavior added up to exactly zero.

Gina's own comments on this and other forums seem perfectly forthcoming and reasonable, probably much more so than mine would have been had I ever found myself iin a similar situation.

With all of this in mind, I sent my most recent query to Talcott Notch, with no reservations at all. I haven't heard back from them yet, but whatever the outcome, I don't doubt that I'm dealing with a professional agency.

[CaoPaux]

(Pinging old thread for search engine)

Gina Panettieri of Talcott Notch

[CaoPaux]

(Pinging old thread for search engine)

Gina Panettieri of Talcott Notch

[victoriastrauss]

I discovered that most of the complaints about them were based upon innuendo and half-truths, and that the "evidence" for either wrongdoing or unprofessional behavior added up to exactly zero.I can assure you that Writer Beware does not provide warnings based on "innuendo and half-truths". We have documentation for the statements we make.

- Victoria

[Torin]

Gina requested the full MS of my novel a couple of weeks ago, I mailed it out within a few days of the request and got an email from her today with a detailed critique and a request to see it again after the rewrite. She was very helpful in her critique, very fast in her reply and I will definitely send it off to her first when the reworking is done.

Thanks, Gina, for your ideas.

[arkady]

I can assure you that Writer Beware does not provide warnings based on "innuendo and half-truths". We have documentation for the statements we make.

- Victoria


Maybe so, but I wasn't referring to Writer Beware, haven't read their comments, and didn't mention Writer Beware anywhere in my posting. Don't be so quick to take personal affront to remarks that aren't aimed at you.

That said, I now will look at Writer Beware.

[CaoPaux]

Urm, if you researched thoroughly before you queried, how did you miss checking with Writer Beware, or not notice all their comments on numerous threads on several sites? Not that Victoria needs any defense, but I suspect she reacted to the inference that you dismissed what is clearly out there to find. :Huh:

[RonFranscell]

I have watched this conversation from afar, as well as many others, since I ... let's use the gentle term ... "broke off" a relationship with a truly bad agent. I am pleased to see so many would-be authors taking their agent search seriously, but despite the energetic efforts of P&E, Writer Beware and others, bad agents abound. In fact, they might outnumber the good ones. So, it's good to be circumspect.

Bad agents break down into at least three categories: Inept, dishonest and ineptly dishonest. Believe me, they all exist in great numbers, mostly because anyone can hang out a shingle and call himself an agent. No pre-existing literary expertise, contacts, capitalization, experience, license or taste is necessary.

Agents are salespeople, not writers or editors. A good one brings sizzle to your sales. A good one knows who is looking for what. A good one represents you -- the author -- vigorously, and doesn't subsume your interests to editors'. A good one provides counsel, not ultimatums. A good one can help steer your long-term storytelling toward commercial success ... which is why we're doing this.

Yes, an agent is ALSO one key to getting in the door of major publishers, but not as necessary as they'll tell you at writers' conferences. Fact is, major publishers aren't interested in 95% of what's circulating right now anyway. And while the major publishers are where the money is, smaller presses are where much of today's quality, envelope-pushing work is going. I have no idea how many there are, but hundreds would be a conservative guess. Thus, an agent who can sell your project to a quality small house (and save you the expense and trouble of submitting on your own) is no less valuable that the agent who gets you 20 rejections from major houses then walks away.

I'm a veteran journalist and twice-published novelist. I have also dabbled in different genres (scriptwriting, book-length nonfiction, magazine and freelance newspaper writing.) I have had more than one agent, and learned some "author business" lessons the hard way. Without a doubt, many more await. That's the beauty of it: Agent relationships can be ended, and frankly, most of us midlisters (and below) aren't dealing with more than four-figure contracts. Get the best agent you can find, but don't piss away your chances to get your work in the pipeline either.

So to the point of this note: I recently submitted a project to Gina Panettieri/Talcott Notch on the advice of a friend. My interaction with her was quick, positive and professional. I asked a lot of questions that many of you haven't ever dreamed of asking because you haven't yet had the joy of being screwed over by an agent. Gina was straightforward and candid. We have not sealed any deal for representation, but at this moment, I wouldn't be at all uncomfortable with her. At worst, another "author business" lesson will be learned; at best, I'll get paid to write more stories and more people will see my books.

It's a crap shoot, friends. Let me assure you that having an agent who has sold a dozen books in the past week to a major house doesn't guarantee you'll sell, nor does it guarantee you WON'T be rear-ended. Find an agent whose approach, demeanor and history are worth your risk, and don't fool yourself that there are no-risk agents out there.

Good writing to all of you. I truly do wish you the best of luck in finding a good home for your work.

[roach]

Mr. Franscell --

I asked a lot of questions that many of you haven't ever dreamed of asking because you haven't yet had the joy of being screwed over by an agent.

Could you post some of your questions here (if they can be generalized). I'm sure it would be helpful to people searching for an agent to see what sorts of questions should be asked to help sniff out a scam.

[RonFranscell]

When an agent offers you representation, the dynamic shifts drastically. You, as an author, go from being the applicant to the boss. Depending upon your attitude about doing business, you are either hiring someone to work for you, or looking for a partner who’s far, far more important than your next casual weekend date. Are you picky about dates?

AAR has a marvelous listing of basic questions you should ask a prospective agent. Find out about track record, complaints, client satisfaction, fees, commissions, etc …. All the normal stuff. Start there. But here are a few more questions, not to scare you, but to show there are myriad things you might not yet have considered. This isn't exhaustive, but I think it's representative of some issues best handled BEFORE you sign a contract.

1. Will you represent me, all my work and my career … or just choose a la carte from projects you like?
Some agents don’t want the hassle of actually committing to you, the writer. Instead they want only one project. So ask yourself, "if he dislikes my next book, do I really want to go find another agent … and for the next, another agent … and for the next another?" If you truly want a partner in your writing life, don’t accept the a la carte agent. Remember how hard it was to find ONE? Do you want to do that for every book you write?

2. How many submissions do you send in the first burst? How many will be circulating at any one time?
Face it, there’s a cost and a juggling act in sending submissions. Imagine an agent with a dozen clients sending out a dozen submissions for each. Tracking (and paying for) 144 submissions is tough, especially when some answers come in days, others in months. But … that’s what agents do. I had an agent whose rule was five submissions at a time; no more could go out until the last of the five responded. Well, what if that last editor took six months (which, in my case, happened)? You have ONE live submission with no possibility of competing offers/auctions, and nothing in the pipeline. In essence, you start over again –every time. If your agent happens to be entirely too submissive, he/she also won’t rattle editors’ cages to get action (another trait for which to watch.)

3. Does he she know the real rules of the game, and will he/she push those rules in your interest? Or does he/she have his own rules that reduce your chances of exposure to the right editors?
I know an agent who insists adamantly that it is "against the rules" to submit a manuscript/proposal to multiple imprints owned by the same parent. For example, the Free Press imprint at Simon&Schuster rejects you. This particular agent believed that she could not submit to any other imprint at Simon&Schuster, ever. It’s true that some houses won’t compete with themselves on simultaneous submissions; some editors oversee multiple imprints, making it dumb to keep submitting the same project to the people who’ve already rejected it. But many – if not most – major houses with multiple imprints will consider your manuscript, even if a sister imprint had earlier rejected it. One reason: What’s wrong for one imprint might be perfect for another. Find your prospective agent’s attitude by asking.

4. Will your agent actually read your work?
This seems like a no-brainer, but some agents aren’t interested in the width and breadth of your work. They understand they aren’t writers or editors … they are salespeople. And you’re hiring them for their sales ability. If they are also astute readers, savvy wordsmiths, engaged word-counselors … that’s good for you. But their first job is to sell your work.

Here’s the problem if they don’t read it: Would you buy a car from a salesman who never drove one? An expensive bottle of wine from a sommelier who never tasted it?

And if your proposal or partial manuscript piques an editor’s curiosity, will he be more impressed (or less) with the agent who can tell him exactly how the story unfolds, or explain nuances in the plot or narrative, or just compare it to a recent best-seller?

I learned the hard way. If an agent won’t read your work, how can he/she truly expect anyone else to read it? If a prospective agent gives you some caca about how reading a manuscript will harm her sales patter or take valuable time from his sales effort, find another one. Quickly.

5. How many clients do you have? How much attention can I expect from you?
More is not necessarily merrier. You don’t want to be No. 12 on an agent’s list of 12 clients. If an agent has plenty of help, that’s a plus. Don’t expect hand-holding and weekly calls, but if you can’t get monthly updates and replies to your messages, that’s bad. If the agent is flying solo and doesn’t even have a secretary … try to assess how the routine will affect your submissions. Can he/she communicate with you at comfortable intervals? Will your submissions get the attention they deserve, or will they be set aside while other writers get your agent’s most robust and freshest attention. An agent will tell you many things, but if he/she ever says, "I can’t send your stuff because I have several other submissions to send out," that’s a sign of being put on a back-burner.

6. What’s the last book you read for fun?
I’m skittish about agents who don’t know what’s selling. I’m skittish about agents who aren’t passionate readers. I’m skittish about agents who don’t have time for such things. They’re in the business of spotting good work, selling it effectively and efficiently, and anticipating supply-and-demand.

7. Who's more important ... me or the editor?
Many agents would rather make you angry than an editor. Why? They plan to go back to that editor dozens of times with other projects. Thus, the agent sees the editor as being more of a cash cow than you, most of the time. In the end, you risk having your interests subordinated. There's nothing wrong with a professional, honest agent keeping editors happy ... and in most cases, being professional and honest will do the trick. But if you feel your interests are second to the editor's (in your agent's eyes), they probably are. There's a way to balance both editor and writer interest ... good agents do it daily.

[CaoPaux]

Gina's latest post is here:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8207&highlight=talcott

Neither publisher requires agent representation, I believe.

[DaveKuzminski]

While I do check on sales, I do not keep a list of those sales by title and publisher. You'll have to ask the agent what their latest sales are.

[Mark]

For what it's worth...

I read all the posts and decided to submit to this agency.

I sent an email query along with a synopsis and chapter outline to this agency. I got a quick reply with a fair critque and valid support for the reasons behind the rejection. Although I got rejected, it was professional. I've seen a lot worse.

[victoriastrauss]

It's good to ask questions of a prospective agent. But the bottom line is track record. Here are some additional questions that writers might consider:

- Does the agent have experience selling books like yours? You have a better chance if she does, since expertise in one market, such as women's fiction, may not guarantee expertise in another, such as fantasy.

- Is the agent making regular sales to a variety of publishers, large and small? A track record concentrated in one area--say, entirely on smaller publishers that don't require writers to be agented--is not really varied. Nor is a track record mostly composed of sales to one or two publishers.

- Does the agent's track record coincide with your publication goals? If your goal is to sell to an imprint of a large publishing house, you've a better chance of achieving it if your agent is actually selling to those imprints. If the agent isn't selling to those imprints, it might be a good idea to ask why.

- Is the agent's sales frequency proportionate to his/her client list? A successful small agency may make less than a dozen sales a year. A successful midsize agency may make 20, 30, or even more. But if the agent has a midsize client roster--say, 30-50 authors--and a small-size sales record, it suggests that either the agent is taking on less marketable clients, or he/she is not providing very efficient representation.

- Victoria

[Wandering Sensei]

I just heard from this agency. Took seven months (I was told 4-5 weeks by the agency when I submitted) and a followup query, and I got back a generic "no."

[Axler]

I researched both Talcott Notch and Gina Panettieri thoroughly before querying them. I discovered that most of the complaints about them were based upon innuendo and half-truths, and that the "evidence" for either wrongdoing or unprofessional behavior added up to exactly zero.

Yeah, same here. Specific incidents with names attached to them measured to less than bumpkiss. It's pretty obvious to me as a former journalist that someone had a smear agenda in mind, hoping to grow a mighty oak of innuendo from a dessicated acorn of actual fact.

For the record (someone is keeping a record?), I'm the author of 32 published novels with six more appearing over the next couple of years or so.

Ms. Panettieri is my agent, representing a somewhat off-standard project of mine which is also in an rather off-standard format. She saw what I had, understood what I wanted and instead of throwing up a blizzard of objections because the project varied from standard, she basically said, "Let's see what we can do with it."

She has continuously impressed me with her professional, courteous and caring manner.

I would recommend her to anyone seeking representation, established pros and first-timers alike.

[JustinoXXV]

Axler, I'd love to read one of your novels. Surely you can post under your real name, so I can look you up at Barnes and Nobles, or some other book store? Or I could do a google on you or look you up at www.amazon.com

[Julie Worth]

Axler, I'd love to read one of your novels. Surely you can post under your real name, so I can look you up at Barnes and Nobles, or some other book store? Or I could do a google on you or look you up at www.amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/)

If you’ll check under his public profile you’ll see that he writes and posts under the same name. And if you check on Amazon, you’ll see that he has a new book out every month or two. And not thin ones, either. How does he do it? Does he really write one of those fat tomes every month or two (in which case I’d love to know what supplements he’s taking) or is this the republished work of twenty years?

[Axler]

How does he do it? Does he really write one of those fat tomes every month or two (in which case I’d love to know what supplements he’s taking) or is this the republished work of twenty years?

I wish that was the case. Then I might have more of a life away from the keyboard.

Actually, I write the Outlanders series under the "house name" of James Axler. I write four books a year, each one with a word count of around 85,000 words...some a little longer, some a little shorter. Another series entitled Deathlands has the same house name attributed to it, although I guess I'm the "official" Axler, simply by dint of volume.

Although I wrote a few books in the DL series several years ago, for the last eight-plus years, it's been in the hands of a revolving door system of anonymous writers. The actual creator of that series quit after writing three-quarters of the first book.

By contrast, I was contracted to create Outlanders by the publisher and I'm still with it nine years later and unlike contributors to DL, I'm acknowledged as the creator/writer.

Outlanders is the best-selling title in the publisher's imprint (Gold Eagle publishes six series) and with recent interest from Hollywood, the publisher has pulled in a fill-in writer to provide a few inventory books to make sure the series rumbles along in case I'm hit by a bus or something.

If you're interested you can check out this site:
www.Jamesaxler.com (http://www.jamesaxler.com/)

Over the last few months, a company has released audio books of Gold Eagle's series, presenting them like old-time radio dramas. You can listen to an excerpt of their current Outlanders release (although the book itself is nearly three years old), Devil In The Moon, on their site.

http://www.cuttingaudio.com/

[Roger J Carlson]

For what it's worth...

I read all the posts and decided to submit to this agency.

I sent an email query along with a synopsis and chapter outline to this agency. I got a quick reply with a fair critque and valid support for the reasons behind the rejection. Although I got rejected, it was professional. I've seen a lot worse.

I can second this. I submitted my novel to Talcott Notch and have been watching this thread with interest ever since. After waiting a couple of weeks past the promised six, I sent a polite requery and got an immediate response.

Unlike so many agents (many of whom don't even respond if they're not interested), I received a reasoned critique in addition to the rejection. (Sigh. It's not the first.) On the other hand, her objections were valid, and I have corrected them for the next agent I approach.

I can't say that whether Ms. Panettieri is a *good* agent or not. A good agent is one who selles *your* work. However, I don't believe she falls into the "Inept, dishonest and ineptly dishonest" categories mentioned earlier in this thread.

I'd have no qualm about submitting to her again.

--Roger J. Carlson
www.rogerjcarlson.com (http://www.rogerjcarlson.com)

[victoriastrauss]

It's pretty obvious to me as a former journalist that someone had a smear agenda in mind, hoping to grow a mighty oak of innuendo from a dessicated acorn of actual fact.Hmmm. I assume you're referring at least in part to me, as I've commented here and elsewhere about this agency. However, I don't remember ever being contacted by you. I'm wondering, therefore, what journalistic criteria you're using to draw conclusions about smear agendas.

- Victoria

[Axler]

Hmmm. I assume you're referring at least in part to me, as I've commented here and elsewhere about this agency. However, I don't remember ever being contacted by you. I'm wondering, therefore, what journalistic criteria you're using to draw conclusions about smear agendas.


Not a bit of it. I have nothing but respect for Writer Beware and my statement you quoted should in no way be construed as referencing you or your site.

However, months ago I did indeed ask for specific information that met the journalistic criteria of Who, What, When and Where and was instead referred to several old posts on a couple of different message boards.

I found threads that made vague references to incidents that happened years in the past but significantly with no names, specific events or anything else that could be independently confirmed attached to them.

That meets my journalistic standards of innuendo, particularly since the people who made the posts were for all intents and purposes, anonymous. The threads didn't even meet my criteria of ancedotal information. Another reason I didn't find the information legitimate was this:

A few times in the past I was involved with either scammers or dishonest publishers. I can state without fear of refutation I was not/am not coy about naming names or laying out the specifics of the incidents. Quite the contrary.

If the people involved didn't like what I said about them, then they could have filed suit for libel, but in that eventuality they would be behooved to prove my statements were false...which they couldn't do, so no suit was ever filed.

If somebody (or several somebodies) has demonstrably provable experiences of wrongdoing by Talcott Notch that don't spring from personal disagreements or misunderstandings, it seems curious that they've never laid out the specifics or the resolutions.

What are they afraid of? Jeez, I've even told an editor that I intended to kick his *** if we ever crossed paths and it never affected my ability to get work...in fact, I got more work after I told him that. Hmm...

So, in my opinion, what I found was the equivalent of passing snide notes in study hall: "Talcott Notch is stinky-poo, 'cause they didn't sell the memoirs my second cousin's great-grandfather wrote and I can't remember his name or the name of the book or when this happened, but they're still all stinky-poo. Pass it on."

[CaoPaux]

So, in my opinion, what I found was the equivalent of passing snide notes in study hall: "Talcott Notch is stinky-poo, 'cause they didn't sell the memoirs my second cousin's great-grandfather wrote and I can't remember his name or the name of the book or when this happened, but they're still all stinky-poo. Pass it on."In my opinion, the complaints are not that Gina is a bad person, but that she only sells to small publishers the author could have approached on their own. Gina seems to be a fine person, and is certainly generous in her critiques, but she doesn't seem to able to sell books to the "big" guys (despite her claim that they frequently ask her for material). It's not a bad thing to only pursue the independent pubs, but it's something that writers need to be aware of when they approach her.

[Wandering Sensei]

I just heard from this agency. Took seven months (I was told 4-5 weeks by the agency when I submitted) and a followup query, and I got back a generic "no."

Let me write an addendum to this. That generic no kind of bummed me out, but a couple days later Gina sent me another e-mail. Brief, about a page's worth of critique, but rarely does a rejection leave me feeling good. :) She said that I had writing talent, and she enjoyed the story, but (paraphrasing here) the book is not as marketable as it stands as some others. There's apparently not a lot that takes it out of the pack, even though it's a good piece of writing.

Well, it's a bummer that it's a rejection. No means no however you phrase it. But it gives me specifics to grab onto and helps answer the question of why it's garnered interest but has had no takers. And it's affirmed (and I've gotten some similar comments from other agents) that I'm perfectly capable of writing a good story, just perhaps not this story.

It's frustrating, though, because the "flaws" of the book aren't really something that I can easily do anything about. To change it, I'd have to totally revamp it into a whole new book. In that case, I may as well just do that, write a whole new book.

Sigh. More work. Grumble. I'll certainly consider trying Gina again with a future project, though.

[RonFranscell]

I submitted a query to Gina Panettieri/Talcott Notch on Feb. 8, 2005. It contained synopses of two manuscripts -- one nonfiction and one novel -- as well as some material about my previously published novels and my writing life.

Within three weeks, we chatted on the phone about my projects (and more importantly, my future.) Because I've had some bad experiences with agents, I asked some tough questions about Gina, especially about some of the vague, second-hand criticisms that have been posted here. I was satisfied with her answers, and we seemed to have good rapport. Gina offered representation. A contract was signed the first week of March.

Rights offerings were posted within 10 days and have already caught some editors' attention.

So, in one month's time, Gina read, responded, made a business decision, and we entered a business arrangement to represent my writing ... and my material was in the pipeline. It was professional, courteous, efficient and rather refreshing. Like many (most?) of you, I have gotten more form-letter rejections than I care to think about (Why do they always start, "Dear Author: We hate form-letters as much as you do, but ..."?)

Gina offered prompt attention in my case. I understand (and must warn you) that it's more the exception than the rule for agents and editors to be so prompt, but a healthy share of the criticisms here have been about Talcott Notch's response time. Perhaps Gina has taken your criticisms to heart, or perhaps they were unfounded to begin with, but in my case, I'm not sure we could expect a more prompt reaction.

As for criticisms that she apparently does too much business with small houses for some authors' taste ... among the interested editors in my case are major houses. Nonetheless, while the major houses have certain benefits, they also have certain shortcomings. I have had books published by big and small houses, and I can see clear strengths (and woeful weaknesses) in both.

I'll keep you posted as my professional relationship with Gina unfolds.

[CACTUSWENDY]

:Thumbs: ....Congrats and best wishes for you......:Clap:

[dragonjax]

Last August, Gina requested my full MS, which I sent out immediately. On November 3, I received a three-page, single-spaced, typed letter with her feedback. It was the most detailed, informative, helpful response I'd received in the year that I had been querying. After taking a few weeks to process the feedback and make her suggested revisions, I sent the revised full MS to her on November 30, knowing I was coming up on holiday time. As of today, I haven't gotten feedback yet. I know feedback is coming, because I've asked Gina about it -- she had finished reading my MS and had to pull together her comments -- but it's simply not here yet. Very frustrating, but I know it will be worth the wait.

If every agent gave feedback the way Gina did, we would be better writers for it.

[zeprosnepsid]

Ron, I would appreciate your updates on your agent relationship.

I have been following this Talcott Notch business and hardly know what to make of it. I think I'd like to query just to get one of these lovely in depth rejection letters.
I also must note, I rather like the name "Talcott Notch". I don't know what it means, but it sure is cute. These things matter when you are looking for your umpteenth agent to query =)

[dragonjax]

Yesterday I received feedback from Gina on my revised manuscript. She sent me a two-page, single spaced letter, along with my MS, full of post-it notes with her handwritten notes on them...which she sent on her dime as a way of apologizing for the long response time (sent: November 29,2004; response: April 4, 2005).

Once again, her feedback was well worth the wait. Gina really GOT my work (there is no way to convey just how amazing that feels), and I could tell that she had given it a very careful read, based on her thoughts and insights. She had a few questions and some minor suggestions; I sent her a detailed response yesterday via e-mail to discuss further.

So far, my experience with Gina has been fabulous. I'm looking forward to her response to my e-mail message. I'll keep everyone posted.

[Kiva Wolfe]

Of the four agents--big and not so big--who looked at my work, Gina was the only one took a substantial amount of time to evaluate my MS and provide some insightful feedback. That is extremely rare in this industry today. Other factors to consider are whether the agent looking at your work has established relationships with publishers and actually gets your manuscript into the right hands. I can't speak to the veracity of her company or her connections, but the woman has a heart of gold. I get the feeling she'll definitely go the distance for you. My fingers are crossed for you. Best of luck.

[dragonjax]

Yesterday, Gina and I exchanged e-mails, discussing in depth specific points of my manuscript. Once again, she demonstrated not only that she had given the story a very close read but also that she understood what I want to accomplish with the story. So I will be doing another revision to incorporate these latest changes, then I will send her the revised manuscript.

My story is already worlds stronger than its previous incarnation. And I'm positive with the newest additions (really just tightening a few things here and there), it will be stronger still. I'll post when I send the MS and when I hear back from Gina (and, of course, what happens after that).

[arkady]

Encouraging news, Dragon.

[dragonjax]

A further update:

I exchanged a few more e-mails this week with Gina, discussing specific points of my manuscript. This morning, she told me that a specific change (mentioned in the last e-mail to her) was "a great addition" and that "in just one scene you add layers and dimension to the characters and the story."

Gotta say, it's not every day my ego is stoked. :) Gina continues to provide strong feedback (not just pats on the back, might I add -- there are numerous points that we discussed back and forth).

FYI: she's emphasizing mystery and NF over fantasy these days.

I'll keep everyone posted.

[Kiva Wolfe]

dragonjax--have you heard anything yet from Gina?

[dragonjax]

Not yet, Kiva. I know Gina received my second-round revised manuscript the last week of April. And so...I wait.

She's been busy. Last month, she sold FAMILY MATTERS, a debut crime novel, to Justin, Charles & Co. Smaller advance, but larger promotion from the publisher.

But no, nothing new to report regarding my manuscript. I'll definitely post when I have news, one way or another. But thanks for asking! :)

[Kiva Wolfe]

DragonJax, we're into June, going on July. What have you to report?

[dragonjax]

Still the same, Kiva. I know she went on vacation about two weeks ago; I don't know if she's back yet. When I have more news, I'll post it here. :)

[RonFranscell]

Having just weathered Hurricane Rita's wrath here in Southeast Texas, picking up pieces of my house in odd places and being a newspaperman in the maelstrom, I am more interested in a nice long nap right now than almost anything else.

Almost.

Let me just say this: In the next several days, I'll have some good news to report re: Gina Panettieri and my most recent manuscript. It will settle some of the angst about her work, although I feel after re-reading this entire string it won't dissuade those who'd prefer to keep grinding an axe.

But I promise, as soon as details are settled ... good news.

In the meantime, take a look at my new blog, http://underthenews.blogspot.com (http://underthenews.blogspot.com/) and get some sense of what it's like to ride out a rather "sedate" Category 3 hurricane that's slowly eating away the building in which you're hunkering down!

[dragonjax]

Eagerly awaiting the news, Ron! :popcorn:

[Christine N.]

Reading this thread, I decided "what the heck" and sent her an e-query. Another agent is also looking at it, but I always abide by that adage of eggs and baskets. Two days for a reply, a very nice "sounds exactly like what we rep, please send 50 page and a synopsis".

So <shrug> it's a race to see who comes back first - one of two agents, or my current publisher who also has right of first refusal.

Wow, I feel like such a... writer! LOL

[dragonjax]

Good luck, Christine! :Clap:

[dragonjax]

Hey Ron! I just saw this in PMP:

Ron Franscell's FALL: The Rape and Murder of Innocence in a Small Town, the true story of the kidnap, rape, and murder of the author's childhood neighbors, an event that was to haunt the author until he returned home to face the aftermath, and the murderers, to Joan Dunphy at New Horizon Press, in a nice deal, by Gina Panettieri at Talcott Notch Literary Services (world English). gpanettieri@talcottnotch.net

CONGRATULATIONS! :Clap: :Clap: :Clap: :Clap: :Clap:

Fabulous news!

[Christine N.]

That's great, Ron!

[RonFranscell]

Today, I signed a contract with New Horizon Press to publish my true crime/memoir, "Fall: An Intimate Crime Story (http://www.ronfranscell.com/books/fall.html)." Gina Panettieri of Talcott Notch Agency agented the deal with a smaller house that had made its bones with reputable nonfiction books.

The book -- about a monstrous 1973 rape and murder that touched me, my family, friends and neighbors and still reverberates eerily today in the Wyoming town where I grew up -- will be published in late 2006 or early 2007. Naturally, I've spent much of today pondering life and death, the illusion of sanctuary in a small town, and two girls who suffered more than anyone should. If you'd like to see what's been on my mind today, go to my blog at http://underthenews.blogspot.com (http://underthenews.blogspot.com/)

Gina Panettieri secured a modest advance and fair terms. She exuded passion for the project all along the way, offering suggestions on how it might be improved for a commercial marketplace. In less than seven months, she sold it. Throughout the pitch/dance/negotiation/signing process, she was supportive, energetic and surprisingly communicative -- none of which some entries on this string would have led me to believe. I have two previously published books -- both novels -- to which my agent gave none of the same energy. Gina Panettieri is not a one-size-fits-all agent, because no such thing exists. But in this case, she was MY agent and she earned her commission and my trust.

I still admire the Hosts of this string for encouraging would-be writers to be wary of the scammer-agents, and to investigate potential agents vigorously. But I will also encourage would-be authors to be skeptical of vitriolic (and usually anonymous) posts on message boards like this where the axe being ground isn't plainly displayed.

[WVWriterGirl]

I thought long and hard before posting this, but thought, what the heck. I don't want to stir anything up, but nonetheless...

Until mid-summer passed, and my fifth email to GP went unanswered, I had faith in her, too. She's had my piece, my novel, for over a year now with a promise to "do some edits on it and return it", but every time I write to ask what the status of it is, I get nothing. For a long time, I was in the TN support camp, but I suppose you can see why I'm beginning to migrate out of that camp.

Wonderful news, Ron. I'm glad you had something that tickled her fancy.

[Kiva Wolfe]

Ron:

Congratulations on the placement of your book. Though brief, my interactions with Gina gave me the opinion that she is indeed someone who will work with and go the distance for a client. I will always appreciate the time and helpful feedback she offered on my original manuscript. Thanks for bringing this full-circle.

[RonFranscell]

Down here in Hurricane Rita-ravaged land, I barely got my roof replaced, my stumps ground, my fence propped up, my windows re-glazed, my shrubs uprooted and my barbecue grill returned by a very nice man in Kountze ... and it was time to send Christmas cards.

Alas, my Grinch/Scrooge/Donald Trump of an insurance agent wouldn't reimburse me for most of this stuff anyway -- especially the Christmas cards -- so I'm doing it extra cheap .... by bulletin board!



Merry Christmas!



I hope your holiday is warm, safe and hurricane-free ... this year, next and beyond!

[Christine N.]

Well... I submitted to Gina, when was it... October? *scrolls back* Yes, Mid October. Two and a half months ago. Not that long, in agent time. I e-mailed her once through her 'status' e-mail, with no response. I did get one, rather quickly, when I used her direct e-mail. I had a question about what she was looking for, since it changed since I subbed, and what I subbed was no longer on the list.

She said she's backlogged. And now it's the holidays, so I imagine I won't hear from her until after the New Year. If I don't hear by February, I'll e-mail her again.

She did move, so perhaps some manuscripts got lost in the shuffle?

Glad to hear you're getting back on your feet, Ron :)

[Julie Worth]

I’ve had a half dozen emails from her, and she was always terribly nice. Unfortunately, after keeping the ms of my novel for six months, she now tells me she’s moving away from fiction (except for whatever exceptions she makes, of course). Blast!

[Christine N.]

Great. Freaking great LOL. I guess I need to jot her off another e-mail this week and find out what's going on. I give myself a limit of agents to query at one time. Three have partials, and if one's coming back a rejection, I have another I need to send out to.

Just seems like every agent I send to lately changes what they're looking for after they ask me for a partial. Sigh.

[RonFranscell]

Some recent postings reflect both the new and old state of affairs for book publishing. And neither is good for writers.

For those writers who submit to agents and don't hear back (or hear the agent has switched to a "new" genre) that's unfortunately just the way of this particular world. I once got a rejection notice from an agent a year AFTER the book had actually been published (with the help of a different agent.) And it was a form letter! Hang around at writers conferences long enough and you'll hear similar or worse horror stories about slow agents. They outnumber the fast, efficient ones.

But what's "slow"? To my impatient way of thinking, an agent should be able to respond -- if just to say, "Got it" -- within 6 weeks. After three months, you're perfectly within business etiquette to politely seek an update ... or move on.

Unless an agent asks for "exclusivity," send as many manuscripts out as possible. If an agent wants an exclusive look at your work, get a firm date after which you can submit to others -- say, 2 weeks.

But here's another thing to know about the book publishing business: It takes a lot of long vacations. The whole industry virtually shuts down in August and December. Don't expect to get quick responses from agents or editors in those months.

Face it, in the eyes, minds and hearts of most agents and editors, you are little better than the miner of ore. You provide the raw material they fashion into gold. They are important parts of the process, but don't let them trample on you. Be business-like and respectful; when your frustration has become untenable, move on and don't look back.

[Branwyn]

I just sent a query to Talcott Notch today....fiction.

[RonFranscell]

Any word on your submission, Baywitch? This is very early, but I'm way too curious.

[Julie Worth]

She rejected me a few weeks ago (after keeping the ms for six months) saying that she was moving away from fiction.

[Christine N.]

Well, I think I'm pulling my sub from her. She's had the partial for four months, and I recently e-mailed her to say that I've had an offer on the ms from the publisher of my last book. I asked her to look it over and let me know if she thinks she could sell it to a bigger house - I don't need an agent to stay with LBF - I've got a great working relationship with them, their contract is straightforward. She said she'd get back to me in a 'few days'

That was two weeks ago. I guess my time isn't as valuable as hers.

[Branwyn]

Yes Ron, she replied that she read my query with great interest and would be happy to consider my work. She then asked for the first 50 pages, and a full synopsis.
So we shall see.

[RonFranscell]

Good news, Baywitch. I'm keeping fingers crossed, but keep submitting. Don't let your eggs rest in one basket too long.

Christine, you're probably wise to pull up stakes since you haven't had a satisfying encounter with Talcott Notch. I think TN's site says it considers very limited types of fiction, which yours don't appear to be, so it's not a good bet for you anyway. Add the timing issues and you have every reason to seek your fortune elsewhere.

A writer's life is too short (and oversubscribed) to waste a lot of emotional energy on disappointments. Yeah, yeah, easier said than done, I know. But I've wasted enough energy on disappointment to be an expert witness. Do what you can to pour all that attention, passion and energy into storytelling.

[Branwyn]

Thanks Ron...I've got fingers and toes crossed. I am submitting more via email at this moment...There are others that are interested as well so I've got a few baskets;) .

[gpanettieri]

Hi, Christine, I'm sorry you were unhappy. Your email to me indicated you had the work with a number of agents and you were contacting all of us to ask us to look at the work quickly and get back to you if we felt we could bring it successfully to a larger house, and I did look at it over that weekend. One follow-up email to you was bounced back as undeliverable (but from what I have been hearing, AOL's been having some issues), but I definitely would have tracked you down by phone or snail mail had I had good news for you. With other agents in the picture, I felt sure you'd have received a positive reply from you at least one of those, and that would be, no doubt, the reply you wanted most. Again, sorry, and I certainly wish you every success!

[Christine N.]

It's ok, Gina, when you finally got through you said AOL had been giving you static. That happens, and it's not your fault, and I apologize. Thank you for taking the time to track me down!

And thanks for the honesty about the manuscript :) You're all right.

[Branwyn]

:cry: She passed on the ms. But she is very nice and I got the response quickly, albeit the wrong response...

[RonFranscell]

Sorry. Rejection sucks, under the best of circumstances. But don't git yer dawber down. Every published writer can tell you how many rejections he endured before he finally found the right home for his work. It's sobering. But everybody told you it was a holy terror to get published, right?

Persist. Keeping hunting and you'll find.

[Jenk]

Gina's had my MS for about a year, and whenever I can talk to her about it, she's very excited and has all kinds of things that she needs me to do to be able to take the next step, but it is very difficult to get into communication with her. She stopped emailing, and for 3 months, I heard nothing. I finally called, and she said that there had been a problem with email, and she thought I had dropped out. I wondered why she hadn't called me, but didn't think much more about it. I gave her an alternate email address, and told her to call if she didn't hear from me, and we exchanged emails on the new address and then it stopped again. It has now been another 3 months since last I heard, despite my emailing to and from several different addresses, snail mail, and phone calls. I even had my partner call, in case her phone was blocking my number for some reason. ANyhow, I have now emailed her using this forum. If all of you would cross your fingers and say a mantra for me, and for her, I'd appreciate it.

[Sassenach]

Jenk, you may be too patient for your own good. Why would you want to deal with someone who's generally ignored you and made questionable [to me, at least] excuses?

[Vomaxx]

Gina's had my MS for about a year, and whenever I can talk to her about it, she's very excited and has all kinds of things that she needs me to do to be able to take the next step, but it is very difficult to get into communication with her.

Are you very young? I hope so, at this rate. If for over a year you have not be able to do "all kinds of things that she needs me to do" because she's out of touch, how long are you willing to wait? A year is enough time to write a novel, let alone spruce it up.

[waylander]

I hope you've been keeping this work in circulation, querying other agents

[Aconite]

Jenk, it sounds like it's time to concentrate on a new agent. Best wishes to you, and good luck with your book.

[triceretops]

Jenk, cut that so-in-so loose right now and move on. Promise me you're circulating new queries to attentive agents.

Tri

[gpanettieri]

Jen, you're totally right, and I sincerely apologize. I should definitely have been more attentive in recent weeks. I am attempting to rectify the work overload situation by reducing new incoming submissions to a trickle and taking on additional staff to help handle what we already have. Replies on new queries, I'm afraid, will be taking lowest priority, so I'm sure some will complain on that issue, but client materials have got to come first, and submissions already in-house are second. When things have been brought up to speed fully, we can consider other issues.

However, I do want to clarify that I did give Jen feedback and recommendations for revisions and expansion of her proposal on several occasions, and that Jen herself was away and unable to start on that work or communicate with me for several months during this period when she had other professional commitments.

The work is now in marketable form and is in circulation and Jen has been made aware of what comments the project has garnered thus far.

[Sassenach]

What an amazing coincidence!

[arkady]

Gina's had my MS for about a year, and whenever I can talk to her about it, she's very excited and has all kinds of things that she needs me to do to be able to take the next step, but it is very difficult to get into communication with her. She stopped emailing, and for 3 months, I heard nothing. I finally called, and she said that there had been a problem with email, and she thought I had dropped out. I wondered why she hadn't called me, but didn't think much more about it. I gave her an alternate email address, and told her to call if she didn't hear from me, and we exchanged emails on the new address and then it stopped again. It has now been another 3 months since last I heard, despite my emailing to and from several different addresses, snail mail, and phone calls. I even had my partner call, in case her phone was blocking my number for some reason. ANyhow, I have now emailed her using this forum. If all of you would cross your fingers and say a mantra for me, and for her, I'd appreciate it.

I submitted to Talcott Notch early last year. In April, I got back a form rejection ending with a suggestion that I resubmit in six weeks if the manuscript was still available.

The general consensus on this forum was that it meant exactly what it said, so I resubmitted in June.

I received the identical form letter once again, suggesting that I resubmit in six weeks. I did so, and received the same form rejection for a third time.

By now, I was pretty well convinced that, contrary to the advice I'd been given here on these pages, "submit again in six weeks" was just another polite rephrasing of "no."

But if you're going to be a writer, the first thing you learn is tenacity. So in early September, I resubmitted again, this time including a polite note mentioning that the last rejection slip had requested that I resubmit after a six-week interval.

I haven't heard a word from Talcott Notch since then, nor seen any trace of my query and sample chapters. And yes, since someone is sure to ask, I included a SSAE for return, as I always do.

I should probably add that I'm not so naive as to be sitting on my hands since that time. I'm still sending out queries for that book, and in the meantime I've finished a second, for which I've also begun querying.

[CaoPaux]

What an amazing coincidence!More like keeping to pattern.

[gpanettieri]

Cao, if you notice, I specifically do not request exclusive submissions (in fact, I have actively discouraged them on writing forums), and have often made public notice of the fact we're backlogged. This is no secret. It's always why we're agreeing to consider very, very little new material.

Query rejection letters from us no longer contain a suggestion to query again at a later date, and have not for at least six months. They simply state we're not taking on much new work. So, we're not encouraging people falsely.

[PattiTheWicked]

I sent a query via email to Talcott Notch last year in March, and within a couple of days Gina requested the first fifty pages. I sent those out, and within about four months I got a response saying they were going to pass. She also pointed out a couple of specific reasons as to why she was turning me down.

While it was a bit of a disappointment, I can honestly say that I thought they were pretty timely in responding, and I appreciated the constructive criticism.

[aarthurco]

Hi guys,

I am new here but not new to writing. I just wanted to comment on Talcott Notch and Gina. I recently sent two works to Gina for review. Both are nonfiction, one on freelancing/home business ops (the one I plan to expand, my heart’s desire book) and the other on an alternative health subject (one personal to me). I have worked with many different agents, publishers, editors and the like on many subjects since I often ghostwrite for people.

So far I think Gina has been very professional in all her responses via e-mail. I find it impressive she takes the time to review this board and provide comments and sensible feedback without aggression to all that post even negative comments. Writing is a tough industry. So is being an agent. It’s just as hard to find an agent or publisher as it is for an agent or publisher to pick a winning project. Most of the agents I know/have worked with are swamped with projects, so the idea that one would spend time providing detailed critiques is wonderful and helpful (JMO). Many get 100 manuscripts and more a week. Wew! What a lot of work.

Maybe there were some negative things that happened in the past. We all make mistakes, learn and grow as we go along. Maybe that was when the agency was in its infancy. It makes us better people, better writers, better representatives and even better agents. I know some agents are fast, and others less so. Some will respond generically, others in great detail. I have had the great fortune of getting almost no form letters when I get a rejection, but I try to take time to get to know who I am submitting to and send in a way that generates good feedback.

Yes, you can easily send to small houses without an agent. That is my preference since the advance if any is usually minimal and I’m greedy (just kidding). However, with an agent there is always the chance of getting a larger advance and working out a good deal even with a small pub. And yes, there are advantages to small and large presses as someone pointed out. If you haven’t been published yet, what is the harm in a small house even with representation if you haven’t been published yet? That said, of course I prefer and shoot for the biggies since I’ve been there done that with some smaller pubs. That’s actually why I’m on the market for an agent. But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t select an agent simply because their work has been primarily sent to smaller houses.

I also think about who will best represent my work. They will understand what I am aiming for. A smaller house may have more time to help with publicity and marketing and ensure my name gets out there. A bigger house may have more money. I don’t know. So I don’t see a problem with it either way. As long as the agent is working to serve you in a way you feel happy with, then terrific! I am impatient, so I look for people who will respond to my needs quickly and are as enthusiastic about my work as I am.

Anyway, I am only just now coming up on 4 weeks since my first submission to Gina at Talcott (my writing guide ConsummateCash™; my health guide I submitted later so it may take longer. Besides, I am changing the title on that one. Anyway, can I get any more long winded? ;)

From my perspective, I say have faith in your work. I know both my books and the series I’m working on will sell extremely well, if for no other reason than my persistence and because of the ridiculous interest in them. Every time I talk to someone about my writing book they ask me for it. Heck, I’m now coaching people in my office with it. It’s just a matter of time. An agent, EVEN one working with smaller houses a lot, can also help you find the right publisher if you are shooting big, something I am not always adept at. I know both will do great. So, while I cross my fingers for both books, especially my CC series, I am patient. I am working on refining my proposal (which is getting really good feedback) and providing more details about how I am plan to market my work and make it a success. Think of your agent as a partner, not a lifeline. I plan to do a lot of work making things happen. I don’t expect my agent to do it all. But the fact that Gina is willing to respond so quickly, provide such great feedback at least from what I hear from people on this board, (even it seems when people get rejections) suggests to me she is committed to her people. That is something.

My suggestion? Take your time. If you aren’t comfortable with someone, go somewhere else. I don’t see anything that is a screaming red warning flag at all.

And of course, I’ll get back to you about my progress with Talcott. I have a couple of things in the hopper right now, so someone will say yes. I’m sure I’ll hear something soon, so far all the feedback I’m getting is positive, positive and more positive. One of my newsletter subscribers asked if I would just print the book out and give it to him (laugh) so I know it will get out there eventually. Oh heck, the guy that did my site for the CC book wants to buy it. That can’t be bad, right? (smile again).

Anyway. So with the good and bad, I say follow your gut. You can always find a way out if you aren’t happy with the results. And do your homework. I think Gina and Talcott seems pretty up front with people. It seems if you inquire you get a response most times. Remember, things get crazy too, for all of us. And to those of you working on getting published, chin up! Remember, we work and develop and grow as we go along. I know I made some mistakes when I started my business, but at least I won’t make them again. And work on marketing yourself when waiting for your response. I know I am… even though I secretly cross my fingers every night for my yes and my fat contract (laugh). Warm wishes and publishing dust to you all!

[ixchel]

I've tried to e-mail Gina not once but three times about the status of my full. It's been almost one year since I sent it to her. I'm worried that my manuscript got lost. It would be nice to hear what had happened or if she did send me a rejection and the mailmail lost it.

[Roger J Carlson]

I've tried to e-mail Gina not once but three times about the status of my full. It's been almost one year since I sent it to her. I'm worried that my manuscript got lost. It would be nice to hear what had happened or if she did send me a rejection and the mailmail lost it.Have you tried snail mail?

[Christine N.]

Ixchel, I'm sure now that you've posted here, Gina will be along. She seems to do that; keeps an eye on what people are saying about her. Not a bad thing.

[aarthurco]

I've tried to e-mail Gina not once but three times about the status of my full. It's been almost one year since I sent it to her. I'm worried that my manuscript got lost. It would be nice to hear what had happened or if she did send me a rejection and the mailmail lost it.

Hi there! I find a lot of times e-mails get lost especially when they have attachments. I prefer sending a back up copy snail mail just in case and include a SASE postcard they can just pop in the mail to me so I know my document was received. That way you aren't in doubt concerning receipt. I do the same if I send an e-mail and don't get a reply back. It's just too easy to loose things via mail these days, snail or otherwise.

I also track things when I sent them out snail, use UPS or something to make sure they are delivered. Don't want to take a chance. But I always follow up with e-mail. It's much safer that way. Have you tried regular mail? I may have missed that, sorry if I did!

[ixchel]

No, I haven't tried snail mail. I'll probably do that next week before my trip to Utah. I hate to be a bother but on the other hand I'd like to know whether or not she received my full or sent out a rejection note that I never received.

[aarthurco]

No, I haven't tried snail mail. I'll probably do that next week before my trip to Utah. I hate to be a bother but on the other hand I'd like to know whether or not she received my full or sent out a rejection note that I never received.

Hi again. I try to research agents and publishers average response times when sending to people direct. If for example, they state their response time is 10-12 weeks, if I haven't heard anything by 14 then I generally follow up. This is perfectly acceptable. It is not a bother. It is only a bother when eager beavers call constantly or check in on the status of their manuscript or query weekly after sending. This isn't helpful but annoying and won't help bolster your chances. I know it drives me crazy when a client checks in on a writing project every day. I prefer sending weekly updates as I am ready. Remember most agents are sitting with hundreds of manuscripts, proposals or queries on their desk. It's a bit of a crap shot at times if you will.

After a reasonable time frame I see no problem with checking in, snail mail with a SASE in your case is a good idea. Again, many encourage this AFTER a reasonable time frame. I think the longest most request is 3-8 months for a full manuscript. My experience has been 2-12 weeks for queries and proposals.

After a year, I hope you are looking at other people as well? The waiting period is always hard, chin up. I'm waiting too on multiple projects.

Best to you (and me and everyone else pursuing their dreams, talents and abilities)

A. Arthur

[nighttimer]

I confess that I have mixed emotions regarding the Talcott Notch Literary Services LLC. I've read the entire thread on Absolutewrite.com dedicated to them. From what I've read here and elsewhere, Gina Panettieri seems to have as many defenders as detractors and both are equally passionate.

Last weekend I received a positive response from Ms. Panettieri in response to my query. I was in the process of preparing the sample chapter, proposal, CV and SASE, but I decided before rushing to the post office, I'd do some checking out what others thought of her.

I respect Writerbeware.org, but I'm as wary of information that might be dated as I am about agents who lack an established record of making sales.

Now I'm conflicted. One good friend of mine who is a published author took one look at Talcott Notch's entry from Writerbeware and replied, "If you feel that such an agency has cheated others, (of course it could just be that one person that felt ripped off, but if there is more than one, perhaps there is reason to worry...) you should pass. As hard as that is to do, one must pass up an opportunity to get screwed unless it is consentual."

I think I'm going to have to decide whether Gina Panettieri or Victoria Strauss have the facts on their side.

[RonFranscell]

I am a client of Gina Panettieri. I am a cynical, jaded newspaperman. I am a twice-published novelist and my third book (a nonfiction entitled FALL) will be published in hardcover in January 2007 by New Horizon Press, and in 2008 in a St. Martin's paperback. In almost 10 years of professional book-writing, and 25 years of professional journalism, I've come to see agents as necessary evils, even when I cash my royalty checks.

Gina Panettieri represented me on FALL. She has pursued my interests vigorously and professionally in negotiations and less stressful (yet still important) conversations with the editor and the publisher.

I've said it here before, and I'm wearying of repeating it: Gina Panettieri has been an excellent representative, advocate and counselor to me. She has earned every penny she's been paid, maybe even done more for me than she'll ever truly recoup. It's amounted to exactly 15% of my royalties/advance, not a ha'penny more.

Although I have participated in this thread for many moons, nobody has provided a scintilla of hard evidence of Gina's untrustworthiness (although Gina herself has responded many times directly on some of those issues.) Much of the carping is coming from newbie (let's say "pre-published") writers who have unreasonable expectations of an admittedly sluggish industry, such as immediate responses, giddy advice and expansive analyses of their manuscripts. Ain't gonna happen. Thicken your skin. Don't watch the clock. Submit widely.

Yes, we know your writing really excites your mom. Yes, we know your Tuesday-night writers group thinks you're really hot. Yes, we know your manuscript will knock the socks off the industry. But be patient. You're going to be rejected more than you ever imagined possible ... just like everyone else who ever put pen to paper. Blame it on shortsightedness of editors, overworked, skanky or inattentive agents, or the Postal Service. All can be blamed ... but sometimes the stars just aren't right.

Bad agents exist. It's proper to be suspicious ... up to a point. Not all dismal interactions with a prospective agent or editor (rejection, slow response, form letters, brusque behavior, etc.) signify wrongdoing or chicanery. And not all the comments you read on message boards like this are coming from people with altruistic motives. Some just use this venue as a way to exact their vengeance for a terse rejection.

If Gina offers you representation and you have reservations, move on to the next one. If you don't have reservations (or other options), what have you got to lose? It ain't a lot more complex than that. But while you're worrying and posting and messaging and IMing and fretting and debating and dithering ... she's selling my books.

[Branwyn]

Congratulations, Ron! The stars haven't quite lined up for me--yet. Just to echo a previous post, my experience with Gina was positive.

This is definitely a 'don't hold your breath,' business.

Branwyn(aka Baywitch)

[Christine N.]

I'd say that more than anything, Gina comes off as very friendly but a bit disorganized. I think she moved offices at one time, so that's understandable, but after that she just gave me the impression that she's not as organized as others. But she's always been very sweet.

And hey, there are a lot of people like that, disorganized; doesn't make her a bad agent. She's obviously sold some things, and that's what you really need to look at - her selling record. Who she's sold to and what, and does it fit in with what you've written.

This is not a one-size-fits-all business either, you may find that your styles don't mesh, or that you work together well.

[gpanettieri]

Hi, all, I do agree with Christine that at times I may appear disorganized regarding new submissions (the volume of work can be staggering) since I often answer submissions out of order, and frankly, there are times I'm pretty well working at full capacity just taking care of existing clients' needs and I have to triage new work to a lower priority simply because I have no choice. But that wasn't a state I was satisfied with myself, so I'm addressing that with new agent staff to take some of the work load off my shoulders to get the new submissions addressed quickly, and one additional person whose sole job is to be a personal assistant and help with peripheral tasks like speaking engagements and travel and what have you (Ron, you met Erin at the Retreat, I believe).

I'm planning by Christmas we'll be quite up-to-date and responding to every submission within two weeks, and able to reply quickly on inquiries on status on submissions and on new queries. I take these issues very seriously, since I started out as a writer many, many moons ago, and I know what it's like to wait on answers.

[triceretops]

I will say that Gina also networks with other agents, and I will say that my agent (who is fairly new) benifitted from her collaboration and teamwork, which resulted in a nice sale for one of our authors. I believe she goes a step further in the "help" catagory, which has made her quite popular. I would only suggest some patience in dealing with her. I don't think a day goes by where most agents are not typically innundated.

Tri

[Axler]

Gina is also my agent and has even brought projects to me. I've always been impressed by her energy and her organization.

Pulling together all the disparate elements of a recent writer's conference and making them a smoothly-running and very enjoyable whole was quite the accomplishment. I seriously doubt I could've done it, even if I wanted to.

And more than that...she's one cool lady-type person.


(Okay, now where's that chocolate tort you promised?)

[ixchel]

I sent Gina my requested full back in July of 2005 and still haven't heard back from her. I figure by now it was rejected but it would have been nice to get at least some comment from her either way.

[victoriastrauss]

Although I have participated in this thread for many moons, nobody has provided a scintilla of hard evidence of Gina's untrustworthiness (although Gina herself has responded many times directly on some of those issues.) Much of the carping is coming from newbie (let's say "pre-published") writers who have unreasonable expectations of an admittedly sluggish industry, such as immediate responses, giddy advice and expansive analyses of their manuscripts.Writer Beware stands by its comments here and elsewhere.

- Victoria

[RonFranscell]

I've been told by reliable sources, including a former client, that Ms. Panettieri ran a different agency a number of years ago, and made a number of commercial sales. However, there apparently were problems with financial management, and authors weren't receiving the payments due them (I was told the police were involved in one case). Ms. Panettieri eventually went out of business. She started up again a couple of years ago with Talcott Notch.

I'm aware of only about five or six sales for her in the two or so years since she started Talcott Notch, all apparently to independent publishers that accept submissions direct from authors. There's nothing wrong with placing books with good small publishers, but the real test of an agent is getting in where the author can't--i.e., to large commercial houses. Also, six sales in two years isn't a strong track record. A new agent should begin making regular sales to a variety of publishers within six months to a year of starting up. Any longer suggests that the agent lacks contacts.

- Victoria

That statement was made May 13, 2004. I understand you stand by it. There's a lot of that going around.

But have you investigated further in the past two and a half years? Is it possible your anonymous hearsay, assuming it was correct to begin with (and I don't), might have been unreliable, invented or changed? And what of the named writers such as me and James Axler who have weighed in here? What of Gina Panettieri herself, who has patiently and politely answered questions here? Are our opinions and experiences disregarded because they don't fit your conclusions? How many successful current Talcott clients have you spoken with?

"I stand by my statement," to me, might be interpreted as "don't confuse me with the facts."

You have plenty of evidence to AT LEAST modify your statement to allow for good experiences with Gina Panettieri, if only to balance your anonymous-hearsay negatives. Gina's sales in the past 10 months far exceed your 2004 report, yet you stand by your statement?

I respect what you and others are doing to protect writers from scammers. But the least you could do is allow for the possibility that A) you were originally wrong, or B) you were right THEN but not right NOW, or C) the facts are not as clear as you originally believed.

Be accurate. Be current. Be fair. Otherwise, somewhere, sometime, you'll be standing by a statement that bears no resemblance to reality.

[ixchel]

Like I stated before, it would be nice if an agent responsed to requested material. Gina is so far the only agent or publisher who hasn't responsed back to my material. It makes me wonder what would happen if she did represent me as a client.

[Axler]

Writer Beware stands by its comments here and elsewhere.

- Victoria

Huh.

What a coincidence...I stand by my comments here and elsewhere myself.

Y'know, I'm really starting to detect the high-pitched whine of an axe against a grinding wheel here.

[Axler]

It makes me wonder what would happen if she did represent me as a client.

It makes me wonder why you don't just--you know--call and ask if she even received it?

[Roger J Carlson]

Like I stated before, it would be nice if an agent responsed to requested material. Gina is so far the only agent or publisher who hasn't responsed back to my material. It makes me wonder what would happen if she did represent me as a client.Some agents make it a business practice not to respond unless they are interested. Many will say so up front. And while I don't believe this is Ms. Panettieri's policy, it does happen.

In my dealings with Ms. Panettieri, she did not respond to my submission in the time Writer's Market* suggested she would, so I sent a second letter. She responded to my second query, indicating that she had not yet gotten to it, but would very soon. Soon after, she returned a rejection.

Did she reject me because I rushed her? No way to know. It's possible she was on the fence, but since I pressed her she decided against.

If that's the case, then I'm fine with it. An agent should love the book she's representing. An author should know that the agent loves his book and has her full attention. If neither of those is true, then it's not a good fit for either agent or author.

*Note: Writer's Market is often incorrect, so it's a good idea to do additional research.

[victoriastrauss]

You have plenty of evidence to AT LEAST modify your statement to allow for good experiences with Gina Panettieri, if only to balance your anonymous-hearsay negatives.I'm curious as to what evidence you have, apart from more assumptions, that my statements are based on "anonymous hearsay." I don't reveal my sources, who contact me in the assumption of confidentiality. That's a rather different situation.
Gina's sales in the past 10 months far exceed your 2004 report, yet you stand by your statement?As the excerpt I quoted from your post should have made clear, I was responding to your comment about "not a scintilla of evidence." But you're right, that 2004 paragraph about sales is no longer current. Here's the current version:

"I'm aware of just over twenty sales for her in the more than four years since she started Talcott Notch, most to independent publishers that accept submissions direct from authors. There's nothing wrong with placing books with good independents, but the real test of an agent is getting in where the author can't--i.e., to large commercial houses. Also, unless the agency's client list is extremely small, twenty sales in four years isn't a strong track record."
I respect what you and others are doing to protect writers from scammers. But the least you could do is allow for the possibility that A) you were originally wrong, or B) you were right THEN but not right NOW, or C) the facts are not as clear as you originally believed.I would certainly allow for those possibilities, if I felt that any of them were valid.

- Victoria

[RonFranscell]

We have gone beyond the looking-glass when a writer (no less) says a source without a name is NOT an anonymous source. LOL

You're entitled to your opinions, of course. You may choose whom you believe. You are clearly choosing disgruntled ex-clients or would-be clients, and while that's rather injudicious, you're entitled. And you may even choose the details you'll believe and disbelieve. And you can even decide you'll never be swayed from your first opinion. But as a watchdog, you owe us more than the scant, quibbling, hair-splitting presumptions you've made, based on unnamed sources and wholly unsupported with facts. I have seen no such facts presented here, just presumptions and innuendo.

Your journalism is poor. Even your correction is incorrect. Gina Panettieri has sold more than 20 projects SINCE January 2006. Now, I'm not great at math but that would suggest she's sold far more than 20 projects since 2002. I would suggest doing what a good watchdog should do: Call the source.

Real research would improve the usefulness of your service. Writers need facts, not scary stories told 'round the campfire. Call Gina and ask the important questions, don't deduce from your obviously flawed third-party sources. Don't have time to do real investigation? Then don't take a job as a watchdog.

And although you have assumed the responsibility of warning future published authors about an agency, you run the risk of harming a legitimate business as well as insulting the intelligence of bona fide, successful and accomplished authors who have positive experiences with that agency. Thus, you'd better be sure of your facts before running rough-shod over this landscape. You would expect your harshest critics to put up or shut up ... and I expect you to do the same in your criticism.

There are plenty of huckster agents out there who must be exposed, and I wish you well in the endeavour. This discussion about Gina Panettieri has centered around whether she had some accounting difficulties in the past and whether she responds quickly enough to submissions. It's time to put up some facts about real chicanery (with named and verifiable sources) and do us a real service, or admit that maybe the problem isn't as large as you make it.

To all writers: Be skeptical. If your mother says she loves you, check it out. And just because a watchdog barks, it's not proof there's a prowler.

[Roger J Carlson]

Ron,

Perhaps it would be useful for the discussion, to list the 20 projects she's sold since January (or a significant portion). Such information should be easy to find, from Gina if nowhere else. Most agents are anxious to get the word out about their sales. I see it all the time in Publishers Marketplace.

[Merricat]

We have gone beyond the looking-glass when a writer (no less) says a source without a name is NOT an anonymous source.

My understanding was not that Victoria objected to the word "anonymous", but that she objected to the word "hearsay".

[RonFranscell]

Good idea, Roger. That's a figure I got directly from Gina this afternoon, and I bet she'd be happy to post those. I hope Victoria will gather the gumption to contact her to clarify any ongoing misconceptions she has tended.

Merricat, "hearsay" is defined as "information heard from another person." I'll give Victoria the benefit of a doubt and say she knows these people and trusts them, but I don't know them and she's not naming them to us. Therefore, you and I are hearing the information second-hand without the benefit of knowing exactly who originally said it or where it came from. That's "anonymous hearsay." We can't debunk it, we can't see what they might have left out, and we certainly can't trust it without question. Sorry, but the phrase isn't terribly ambiguous.

[Tilly]

You can go to this page to find out more about how Writer Beware works:

http://www.sfwa.org/beware/about.html

[gpanettieri]

Victoria, could you perhaps email me so I can work with you to update your information re; recent sales history? Obviously communication's always a big plus.

[victoriastrauss]

We have gone beyond the looking-glass when a writer (no less) says a source without a name is NOT an anonymous source. LOLAnonymous to you. Your implication (as I understood it) was that the sources were anonymous to me. They aren't.

You also seemed to be accusing me of relying on hearsay. I assure you, that's not the case.
You are clearly choosing disgruntled ex-clients or would-be clients, and while that's rather injudicious, you're entitled. And you may even choose the details you'll believe and disbelieve. And you can even decide you'll never be swayed from your first opinion. But as a watchdog, you owe us more than the scant, quibbling, hair-splitting presumptions you've made, based on unnamed sources and wholly unsupported with facts. I have seen no such facts presented here, just presumptions and innuendo.You seem determined to believe this (making, incidentally, the same kinds of unfounded "presumptions" about the nature of my documentation that you accuse me of making about Ms. Panettieri's history). Unfortunately, nothing I can say appears to be sufficient to convince you otherwise.
Even your correction is incorrect. Gina Panettieri has sold more than 20 projects SINCE January 2006. Now, I'm not great at math but that would suggest she's sold far more than 20 projects since 2002.As I stated, I am aware of just over 20 sales since 2002. If there are more than 20 sales since this past January, I wonder why Ms. Panettieri's listing at Publisher's Marketplace shows only eight (seven to Adams Media's "Everything" line).

Per Ms. Panettieri's request, I've emailed her for information about any additional sales. I will report back--but surely, if you don't trust my reporting in other areas, you shouldn't trust it in this one either. As corroboration, I invite Ms. Panettieri to post the sales info here and at Publisher's Marketplace.
It's time to put up some facts about real chicanery (with named and verifiable sources) and do us a real service, or admit that maybe the problem isn't as large as you make it.Because you say so? Sorry. You liken me to a journalist (though I've never claimed to be one), yet condemn me for adhering to a basic journalistic principle--refusing to name my sources. Writer Beware promises confidentiality to the people who contact us with advisories and documentation, and we honor that promise.

- Victoria

[gpanettieri]

Victoria, I've emailed you an update and more info, and I'm in the process of updating my page at Publishers Marketplace. I'll try to keep that as current as possible, but I often don't update it more than once every couple of months. But, over time, that's probably the most accurate and complete record, and will be more completely updated within about the next two-three weeks when the most recent sales have been countersigned and finalized.

I think I should probably stress that we ARE a small, boutique agency, and that's how I intend it to be. I work with a limited clientele and I deal with projects that particularly interest me. Our sales have doubled every six months for the last three years, and the last six months of this year will show a similar increase. That's good business growth regardless of what type of business you're in. Some of those sales have been to series since we've been creative in converting single titles into series books. However, our single title nonfiction have typically been the lead title or one of the lead titles for the publisher for that season.

I've certainly tried to keep up with announcing sales, but was hardly aware it was a matter of some debate on this forum right now. I can only advise folks to drop by the publishersmarketplace page from time to time and I'll try to keep it updated, but honestly, things are pretty busy and it's hard to find time for the work I need to do, so I triage what I take time for. The folks I'm most interested in pleasing are my clients, and they seem pretty content, so that's my primary concern. I hope that makes sense.

[ixchel]

Gina-

I was wondering if you ever got my full or if somehow your reply got lost in the snail mail?

Kim Baccellia

[gpanettieri]

Kim, what was the title and date of submission?

[RonFranscell]

As I stated, I am aware of just over 20 sales since 2002.

Now we're getting somewhere! I appreciate that you are admitting the information upon which you based your statements is sometimes incomplete or wrong, and that more accurate answers might be gleaned by actually going to the primary source instead of third-party sources (websites, no less.)

So your "awareness" and the facts might be two different things. Realizing that is progress. I hope you are open to having your awareness heightened!

Ah, the trust thing. I don't know you and I don't know if I should trust you. Sorry, but that's just wise when dealing with Internet denizens. I would give you the benefit of a doubt if you seemed inclined to do the same. Several named authors have spoken here on Gina's behalf and you are intent on proving to us that we are wrong and you are right. And if we're down to judging Gina only on whether she makes enough sales to the right people to satisfy you, I'd say she's doing OK.

[Roger J Carlson]

Now we're getting somewhere! I appreciate that you are admitting the information upon which you based your statements is sometimes incomplete or wrong, and that more accurate answers might be gleaned by actually going to the primary source instead of third-party sources (websites, no less.)

So your "awareness" and the facts might be two different things. Realizing that is progress. I hope you are open to having your awareness heightened!

Ah, the trust thing. I don't know you and I don't know if I should trust you. Sorry, but that's just wise when dealing with Internet denizens. I would give you the benefit of a doubt if you seemed inclined to do the same. Several named authors have spoken here on Gina's behalf and you are intent on proving to us that we are wrong and you are right. And if we're down to judging Gina only on whether she makes enough sales to the right people to satisfy you, I'd say she's doing OK.Ron,

Since Gina is here and apparently willing to discuss this civilly, I don't think that continuing this strident argument is useful.

Victoria is a trusted and well-respected authority, not just to the members of this forum, but to the much larger world of publishing. She is interested in ascertaining facts, not just in proving you wrong and herself right.

If Gina can supply these facts, I'm certain Victoria, Ann, and WriterBeware will be glad to incorporate them into the mix. Whether that will cause them to change their assessment is yet to be seen, but I think it's time to back off and see what happens.

[Axler]

The rather self-righteous assumption seems to be that Gina is required to prove something to a self-proclaimed watchdog group...who even with the best of intentions apparently have locked themselves into presenting a public image where their initial assessments can be never be re-evaluated or they can never admit to being mistaken.

This attitude reminds me of a passage from Thomas Berger's Little Big Man, wherein Jack Crabb has been accused of cheating at poker by Wild Bill Hickcock:

"Now there was two things to note about this colloquy. One was that he (Hickcock) referred to himself like he was an institution: personally he didn't care so much about these supposed outrages of mine, but he could not let the noble firm of Wild Bill Hickcock, Inc., be loosely dealt with."

Over the years, it seems as if the particulars of the original, alleged transgression have become less important than appearing to always be right.

As Gina herself indicated, the people she's most concerned about impressing are her clients. Anyone else is at her sole discretion.

[Roger J Carlson]

The rather self-righteous assumption seems to be that Gina is required to prove something to a self-proclaimed watchdog group...who even with the best of intentions apparently have locked themselves into presenting a public image where their initial assessments can be never be re-evaluated or they can never admit to being mistaken. This rant does nothing to illuminate any of the issues here. If you have facts, feel free to present them. Otherwise, please dial back rhetoric.

[Kasey Mackenzie]

I'm pretty sure Ms. Panettieri can capably defend herself. By leaping to her defense and accusing people of having all sorts of ulterior motives or trying to sound "superior" to others, you're muddying the waters rather than clearing them. Not to mention, those of us (well, most of us) who read this particular forum are quite capable of reading both sides of an issue and forming our own, rational opinions. I have a lot of respect for Victoria, Ann, and Writer's Beware, but I don't blindly follow the advice of ANY person or organization without taking all factors into consideration. And, until proven otherwise, I assume all the other writers around here do the same.

[Axler]

Rhetoric is noise, Roger.

I presented an opinion based on the exchanges that have been posted on this topic (if it could be called that).

If it's opposing opinions that upsets you, perhaps you need to dial back your participation.

And what facts are you referring to that I should present?

[gpanettieri]

It's not necessary to expend too much emotional energy on this debate. When a question arose (though not directly addressed to me, which would have been eaiser), I was happy to address it with Victoria, and I've told her I'll be happy to update her again in a few weeks if it makes things easier. It's obviously simpler for she and I to have direct communication if there's any questions. Mark and Ron do have a point in that the only people I work for, my clients, are pleased with my work and obviously passionate in their support, which is really all I'm concerned with right now. My sales record is strong for the size of my operation and the number of years of truly active recent engagement in the industry. I'm certainly not out to prove anything to anyone other than perhaps to my clients and myself. I'm extremely happy with the agency's growth and progress, but I'm not looking to take over the world. I run a close-knit, familylike group and that's my aim.

[Roger J Carlson]

Rhetoric is noise, Roger.

I presented an opinion based on the exchanges that have been posted on this topic (if it could be called that).

If it's opposing opinions that upsets you, perhaps you need to dial back your participation.

And what facts are you referring to that I should present?I never asked you to dial back your participation and it is unacceptable for you to suggest that of me.

But the number one rule of this board is to "respect other writers". Phrases like "self-righteous assumption" and "self-proclaimed watchdog group" are disrespectful.

Facts would be anything pertinent to this discussion. Non facts include things like name-calling and vague movie allusions.

BTW, Rhetoric –noun 1.(in writing or speech) the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast. 2.the art or science of all specialized literary uses of language in prose or verse, including the figures of speech. 3.the study of the effective use of language. 4.the ability to use language effectively. 5.the art of prose in general as opposed to verse. 6.the art of making persuasive speeches; oratory.

Take your pick, whatever rhetoric is, it's not "noise".

[RonFranscell]

It is entirely appropriate that the watchdogs are questioned. They should not be assumed to be pure of heart, especially when the reputations and careers of real people are at stake. I don't know who pays Victoria Strauss or Ann Crispin to be watchdogs. I don't know if they're doing the bidding of other agents by dissing competitors or steering promising writers to certain "friends." I don't know who their "sources" are (or if they even exist) for their evaluations. I don't know which transgressors they elect to give a pass and who they target. In how many legal cases have VS or AC been paid to act as expert witnesses (touted at their site)? Let us investigate. There's a whole lot that isn't known about how they arrive at (and faithfully stand by) their conclusions.

Further, when did it become "strident" to defend a friend in the face of resolute opposition? I know Gina better than Victoria Strauss, Ann Crispin or any of the self-appointed watchdogs who have passed judgment on her. I don't think my perspective should be the only perspective; I merely think it should be taken seriously among the many perspectives these watchdogs process. Instead, they appear to disregard my POV and tell me how they have all the facts they need and they stand by it ... even when it's provably wrong.

You have more faith in the likelihood of our watchdogs to admit errors or a change of heart. But freedom is a cool thing ... they can believe anything they wish, regardless of the facts. Free speech only ensures that somehow we'll lay all the facts on the table and people can make up their own minds. I can only hope this conversation reveals that self-appointed watchdogs aren't always on guard for our best interests.

[Tilly]

They should not be assumed to be pure of heart, especially when the reputations and careers of real people are at stake. I don't know who pays Victoria Strauss or Ann Crispin to be watchdogs.

As far as I'm aware, all their hard work is on a voluntary basis.

[Christine N.]

And as far as I know, WriterBeware is associated with several writer's groups, including the SFWA (if I'm not mistaken; I could be) but not endorsed by any one agent or publisher.

They're on the side of writers alone, IMO and from what I've witnessed.

[victoriastrauss]

Now we're getting somewhere! I appreciate that you are admitting the information upon which you based your statements is sometimes incomplete or wrong, and that more accurate answers might be gleaned by actually going to the primary source instead of third-party sources (websites, no less.)So...an agent's website is a third-party source? How about the agent's own listing at Publishers Marketplace? I take it that you'd also regard Publishers Weekly and Publishers Lunch as unreliable? What about publishers' catalogs and rights listings? All inaccurate?

Never mind. Once again, you are reading a lot into my response, and your assumptions--again--are incorrect.

Ron, I am tired of going round in semantic circles with you. As I said to you yesterday in response to your private email (in which, by the way, you told me that you didn't want to be "any more confrontational"--silly me for taking that literally), I understand that you want to defend your agent. But your dismissal of me seems to be mostly if not entirely based on a series of seriously mistaken assumptions about the way Writer Beware works and the kind of documentation we collect. In fact, you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing: making judgments without evidence to support them. I really don't want to continue this argument, especially since I sense that there's nothing I can say that will convince you that I'm more than a rumor-monger. I regret that, but so be it.

Ah, the trust thing. I don't know you and I don't know if I should trust you. Sorry, but that's just wise when dealing with Internet denizens.That's sensible. However, I'm not exactly an unknown quantity, and I'm easy to research. Possibly, if you engaged in some of the primary source research you recommend I undertake, and looked a bit more closely at Writer Beware and its staff, you'd discover that some of your conclusions about us are mistaken.

As I've already said, the trust thing cuts both ways. If you don't trust me to convey negative information, why should you trust me to convey positive information? Or do you only trust statements that reinforce your own viewpoint?

Be that as it may...in response to my email to her yesterday, Gina kindly sent me a list of her sales over the past twelve months. These are the same sales that appear on her Publisher's Marketplace page, which was updated yesterday to add four sales for September and October. It's a solid list, and the pace of sales seems to have picked up considerably since June. Gina says that additional sales are in the works, and will be listed as they are finalized. That's great, and I appreciate her quick and cordial response.

So that's the current situation with sales, and we're glad to be updated (though I have to point out that, since Publishers Marketplace has always been a principal source for Writer Beware's assessment of Gina's track record, we would been updated eventually anyway, whenever Gina found time to change her PM listing--and without any of the hoopla of the past couple of days). As to the misuse of authors' funds with a previous agency--apart from the documentation Writer Beware has on hand, this is something Gina herself has admitted in public forums. I believe that prospective clients have the right to know an agent's full history.

- Victoria

[Axler]

I never asked you to dial back your participation and it is unacceptable for you to suggest that of me.

I presented dialing back your participation as a possible alternative to your apparent stressed-out reaction to me disobeying your arbitrary declaimation that no one should make further posts on the thread.

But I did, it's done, so you basically have no choice but to accept the fact that I did indeed make the suggestion. You're certainly under no obligation to abide by it. I don't really care one way or the other.

But the number one rule of this board is to "respect other writers". Phrases like "self-righteous assumption" and "self-proclaimed watchdog group" are disrespectful.

That is strictly your subjective interpretation. Believe me, I could have chosen far stronger idiom if I intended to be really disrespectful.

I posted my opinions. You didn't care for them, I'm okay with that.

Facts would be anything pertinent to this discussion. Non facts include things like name-calling and vague movie allusions.

And what names did I call anyone? I'll answer that. I didn't call anyone any names.

Also--what movie did I vaguely allude to?

I quoted a passage from the novel Little Big Man, attributing the authorship to Thomas Berger. There was nothing vague about it, nor was it an allusion. It was a direct reference.

In earlier posts on this thread, I presented facts that were very pertinent to this discussion... they did indeed illuminate the issues. Mr. Franscell cast his own illumination over the issues by citing facts.

Unsurprisingly enough, his facts and mine were completely disregarded by some other participants in this thread...my take is that they didn't fit in with the pre-selected scenario.

Regardless, if you're really serious about ending the thread here, backing off and seeing what happens as you stated, then prove it.

Just don't respond to this post and I won't make any further contributions, either.

Everybody can just go on about their business. Mr. Franscell and I have books to write and Ms. Panettieri has books to represent and time will resume its shape.

[gpanettieri]

Victoria, I'm always happy to discuss sales, and yes, it's easier without the hoopla.

But I do have to take some issue with the idea that I ever, ever stated I misused client funds. There was a dispute about 15 years ago which was resolved successfully which had a great deal to do with how the books were handled and by whom, and no one has ever brought a complaint to you to resolve at Writer Beware.

[ixchel]

Gina,

The title of my book is EARRINGS OF IXTUMEA. I sent it August 20, 2005.

[ixchel]

Gina,

You can e-mail me on the contact section of my website at www.kim-baccellia.com.

Thanks,

Kim

[victoriastrauss]

Gosh, we really aren't doing well on the "no more confrontation" thing.

It is entirely appropriate that the watchdogs are questioned. They should not be assumed to be pure of heart, especially when the reputations and careers of real people are at stake. I don't know who pays Victoria Strauss or Ann Crispin to be watchdogs. I don't know if they're doing the bidding of other agents by dissing competitors or steering promising writers to certain "friends." I don't know who their "sources" are (or if they even exist) for their evaluations. I don't know which transgressors they elect to give a pass and who they target. In how many legal cases have VS or AC been paid to act as expert witnesses (touted at their site)? Let us investigate. There's a whole lot that isn't known about how they arrive at (and faithfully stand by) their conclusions. Our About Writer Beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/about.html) page describes how we work.

Writer Beware staff works on a 100% volunteer basis. We don't even accept donations.

Ron, if you want to accuse us of payoffs, influence peddling, favoritism, or other secret handshake stuff, knock yourself out. I'll respond if you can come up with something other than imaginary misdeeds.

Let's turn this into a fruitful process. I invite everyone to read the page linked in above, and let me know how it could be improved--what isn't clear, what needs more detial, what other info you'd like to see. Contact me privately (beware@sfwa.org) or post your questions here. If there are enough of them, I'll make a special thread. Thanks.

- Victoria

[gpanettieri]

Ron, if I may, I've never questioned the intentions of Victoria or anyone else who works on behalf of Writer Beware, and certainly have never felt they operated at the behest of a special interest, even when we were in conflict. There's really no reason to suspect anything ulterior. I appreciate your support, always.

It really is time to end the hostilities. There's nothing to be gained, and we all have real work to do.

[RonFranscell]

I didn't accuse you of those things. But the questions reflect issues that writers might reasonably consider as they assess any watchdog anywhere.

Your invitation is generous. I would further offer to anyone to feel free to email me with concerns you wouldn't feel comfortable airing to WritersBeware and/or Victoria.

[gpanettieri]

Kim, reply on status and book went out to you via email.

[victoriastrauss]

I would further offer to anyone to feel free to email me with concerns you wouldn't feel comfortable airing to WritersBeware and/or Victoria.Gosh. Why do I feel like I just got a free pass to Guantanamo Bay?

- Victoria

[maestrowork]

The rather self-righteous assumption seems to be that Gina is required to prove something to a self-proclaimed watchdog group...

I don't think Gina has to "prove" anything, and certainly she isn't REQUIRED to do anything she doesn't want to, but others can only go by the data they can gather. Besides, sales information is public -- at least to those who have access to something like PM. I think Gina can agree that keeping the data accurate is beneficial to her as well. These sales are bragging rights for agents.

I am sorry to say, it's good for an agent to have accurate data and track records -- it's only good for their business.

[ixchel]

Thank you.

Kim

[aka eraser]

I didn't accuse you of those things. But the questions reflect issues that writers might reasonably consider as they assess any watchdog anywhere.

The questions reflect someone who hasn't done an iota of research. For a "cynical, jaded newspaperman" that's rather, um...surprising.

Your invitation is generous. I would further offer to anyone to feel free to email me with concerns you wouldn't feel comfortable airing to WritersBeware and/or Victoria.

And your bona fides are...?

[RonFranscell]

What, you weighed in on this particular topic without researching? Are you the pot or the kettle? Goose or gander?

Oh heck, to save you some keyboard time: I'm a veteran editor and reporter, I have authored three published books, I've been through the wars of publishing, and I stick up for my friends. What further proof in your view would qualify me to have an opinion on this (or any) matter?

And my opinion -- the very subject of this thread -- is that agent Gina Panettieri has not gotten a fair shake from the watchdogs. If you can prove she has, please do. If you can prove she hasn't, please do. If you have ideas how the debate could be settled, Victoria and I would love to hear them. You can spend your time on cute little remarks or you can actually contribute to the conversation, which isn't about my bona fides or the quality of my personal research, but about whether Gina has gotten a fair shake. You're free to choose.

[nighttimer]

Although I have participated in this thread for many moons, nobody has provided a scintilla of hard evidence of Gina's untrustworthiness (although Gina herself has responded many times directly on some of those issues.) Much of the carping is coming from newbie (let's say "pre-published") writers who have unreasonable expectations of an admittedly sluggish industry, such as immediate responses, giddy advice and expansive analyses of their manuscripts. Ain't gonna happen. Thicken your skin. Don't watch the clock. Submit widely.

Yes, we know your writing really excites your mom. Yes, we know your Tuesday-night writers group thinks you're really hot. Yes, we know your manuscript will knock the socks off the industry. But be patient. You're going to be rejected more than you ever imagined possible ... just like everyone else who ever put pen to paper. Blame it on shortsightedness of editors, overworked, skanky or inattentive agents, or the Postal Service. All can be blamed ... but sometimes the stars just aren't right.

Bad agents exist. It's proper to be suspicious ... up to a point. Not all dismal interactions with a prospective agent or editor (rejection, slow response, form letters, brusque behavior, etc.) signify wrongdoing or chicanery. And not all the comments you read on message boards like this are coming from people with altruistic motives. Some just use this venue as a way to exact their vengeance for a terse rejection.

If Gina offers you representation and you have reservations, move on to the next one. If you don't have reservations (or other options), what have you got to lose? It ain't a lot more complex than that. But while you're worrying and posting and messaging and IMing and fretting and debating and dithering ... she's selling my books.

Hey Ron, how did you know what night my book club meets? :Huh:

As the guy who relit this fire with the first new post since August 8, you'll have to pardon me if my entry came off a bit wishy-washy. I've been burned...nay...scorched by two bad encounters with rip-off or just plain incompetent agents. In both cases, had I only done a little more research (and yes, that means on Writer Beware), I could have spared myself a lot of drama, crushed dreams and wasted time.

After thumb-wresting with myself, I have decided to submit my proposal to Ms. Panettieri. I'm a cynic by nature and a pessimist by experience. I still believe passionately that one day my book will be published, but I'm no longer willing to allow myself to be emotionally devastated if it doesn't happen. However, I'd prefer to let a editor at a reputable publishing house make that decision instead of a agent not interested in proving the best representation possible.

Ron, I am a journalist as well so like you self-appointed watchdogs and anecdotal stories don't impress me. However, I take to heart Ronald Reagan's warning to "Trust, but verify."

I have no desire to question who's more honest: Victoria Strauss or Gina Panettieri. At the end of the day I'm certain both of them want the same thing and that's great books written by happy authors represented by honest and hardworking agents.

Nothing beats a try but a fail, so I'm going to prepare the best book proposal possible, slip it into a envelope and mail it to Ms. Panettieri. If she is as enthusiastic as I am about it, hopefully we will forge a strong partnership that will eventually bring the book to a Barnes & Noble near you.

But if that doesn't happen and I get a funny vibe things aren't quite as they should be, I'll be the first to go on this board and break off a e-mail to Writer Beware verifying they were right in the first place.

Sound fair? :e2writer:

[RonFranscell]

I think that sounds fair, as long as a mere rejection or a delayed response isn't painted as evidence of chicanery. But it's hard to imagine how she could do anything to raise the kind of concerns that WritersBeware has raised without representing you.

And I have already beat you to the promise to beat a hasty path to this board if I ever see any evidence of chicanery on her part. I, too, have had a previous huckster agent (somebody overlooked by WritersBeware ironically) and I have no patience for being conned. None.

With luck, you'll have a successful writing career, better informed by discussions such as this one. I believe WritersBeware and P&E set out with the best intentions, and I respect their passion; I also think there's room for improvement. As a journalist, you know how important it is to follow up on any story so that "old news" doesn't become current fact, especially if circumstances have improved, or the "old news" wasn't quite right.

Good luck! Keep me posted on your progress!

[victoriastrauss]

I, too, have had a previous huckster agent (somebody overlooked by WritersBeware ironically)Writer Beware has documented complaints on many agents not discussed at AW, so it's possible we haven't overlooked your former agent at all. If we have, we'd be glad to know more. We invite you to provide us with documentation--beware@sfwa.org.

- Victoria

[JennaGlatzer]

I am a journalist as well so like you self-appointed watchdogs and anecdotal stories don't impress me.

You're not impressed that a successful author would *volunteer* to be subjected to this kind of nastiness for nearly a decade? That the FBI would call on her when they need info about a literary scammer? That she'd stick her own neck on the line to warn other writers year after year just so those same writers can accuse her of all manner of impropriety and jealousy, that the scammers themselves would threaten her and try to ruin her reputation as an author?

I know it's easy to believe that no one could possibly do this stuff out of the goodness of his or her heart, so there must be some nefarious motive. I've known Victoria for a long time. There isn't one.

By the way, she's not a "self-appointed" watchdog. She's appointed by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America.

[Steve Horton]

Uh, er, ah ... I have a full proposal in with Talcott Notch, and I'm really excited about it. (ducking)

[Roger J Carlson]

Uh, er, ah ... I have a full proposal in with Talcott Notch, and I'm really excited about it. (ducking)Good. I hope it works out for you. Please keep us informed.

[Axler]

There's no reason to duck, Steve. Gina is very selective about the projects she accepts.

Having been afforded a glimpse of the volume of submissions she goes through on any given day, your proposal must have stood out in some way.

[nighttimer]

You're not impressed that a successful author would *volunteer* to be subjected to this kind of nastiness for nearly a decade? That the FBI would call on her when they need info about a literary scammer? That she'd stick her own neck on the line to warn other writers year after year just so those same writers can accuse her of all manner of impropriety and jealousy, that the scammers themselves would threaten her and try to ruin her reputation as an author?

I know it's easy to believe that no one could possibly do this stuff out of the goodness of his or her heart, so there must be some nefarious motive. I've known Victoria for a long time. There isn't one.

By the way, she's not a "self-appointed" watchdog. She's appointed by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America.

Jenna, it was not my intention to imply that Writer Beware and Ms. Strauss were what I meant by the term "self-appointed watchdog." I regret any misunderstanding and hope no one took insult if I expressed myself poorly.

I believe I expressed my respect for the job the folks at Writer Beware do. I have the site bookmarked, I refer to it and recommend it. That said, every author has to make the final determination as to which agents they will engage or avoid. Writer Beware provides guidance and information so authors can be empowered in making their decisions.

What I meant by "self-appointed watchdogs" are bloggers or individuals who typically have axes to grind and hidden agendas to advance. In covering politics there is no shortage of "independent" organizations who exist for the sole purpose of character assassination under the guise of exposing truths.

What I don't apologize for is my natural inclination to be skeptical and question authority when appropriate. While I respect Ms. Strauss and Writer Beware, I'm wary of accepting anyone's word as gospel.

:e2BIC:

[hopeful]

Has anyone heard from these guys lately? I queried them, sent them a full manuscript (nonfiction) per their request, and never heard back despite emailing them (at an email address specifically designated for checking one's submission status) a few times. It's a non-issue at this point, since I have been extremely fortunate in securing excellent representation elsewhere.

But still...it was kind of a bummer never to hear anything at all.

-hopeful

[arkady]

Has anyone heard from these guys lately? I queried them, sent them a full manuscript (nonfiction) per their request, and never heard back despite emailing them (at an email address specifically designated for checking one's submission status) a few times. It's a non-issue at this point, since I have been extremely fortunate in securing excellent representation elsewhere.

But still...it was kind of a bummer never to hear anything at all.

-hopeful

She's still got the query package -- and SSAE -- that I sent her two years ago. She can keep it, for all I care.

[hopeful]

WOW, arkady. That's not cool at all. It's also strange because one of the things that they mention on their website is that they take pride in how quickly they get back to people about their submissions. (They have had my full since last spring).

-hopeful

[Noddy Rider]

I sent my proposal over 3 months ago. Haven't heard a word.

[tony1911]

I contacted Gina Panettieri about my non-fiction book How to Win a Gunfight, and she was enthusiastic, so I signed a contract with her. I also sent her the ms of my novel Pilgrim's Banner to see if she could sell that too.

Well, to cut to the chase, all she did was post the non-fiction book on a publishing website, and hope for the best. To my knowledge, that's all the 'selling' she does. Also, she never responded to my queries (three in nine months), so I terminated the contract with her on January 1st this year.

As John Pilgrim, the lead character in my novel would say, 'She's as much use as a chocolate teapot."

Tony Walker

[hopeful]

Wow, Noddy Rider and tony1911. Just wow. And not the good kind of wow.

-hopeful

P.S. Congrats, tony1911 on getting your book published (in the near future), despite your unfortunate experiences with this agency!

[stormbirdd]

This was a very long, very informative, troubling, redemptive, troubling read. I was surprised that Ms. Panettieri dropped in for comment in the middle of it. But what to make of it all?

She is still in business after five years and has not accumulated a criminal record. That's good.

She did request my full manuscript, but this was back in August. A follow-up email a month ago said "...still evaluating" and little more. But a small company, particularly a competent one, would be submerged by the perpetual high tide of manuscripts.

While I wait, I have disposed of my disposable income in publishing and marketing the book here in Seattle on my own. A fool's errand, of course - no need to tell me. But it makes me feel better seeing the gorgeous cover (from a painting I commissioned for this purpose), the real can-actually-scan-it ISBN, the perfect font on off-white exceptionally good paper all together in a package on the Elliot Bay Books shelf. And it gave something for my wife, me and a skilled, perfectionist friend of mine to reach for and achieve.

In reading this back, I see that the reason I am posting here is to solicit "Good luck" wishes from you all and to keep the thread going on news of the mysteriously-named Talcott-Notch.

Thanks.

- stormbirdd

[giftedrhonda]

So I assumed you withdrew your manuscript from their consideration, then?

Hope your publishing avenue works out for you.

Take care,

Rhonda

[Pisarz]

"the mysteriously-named Talcott-Notch."


Talcott Notch is a geographical reference to a mountain in CT. There are plenty of "Talcott"-related place names in that area.

[eqb]

There are no mountains in CT. Only molehills that got out of hand.

(And one Sleeping Giant.)

[e.dashwood]

The highest point in Connecticut is not even in Connecticut.

Mount Frissell is the highest point in Connecticut at 2,380 feet above sea level. Located in the extreme northwestern corner of the Connecticut, Mount Frissell peaks at 2,453 feet in Massachusetts.

Nevertheless, it's not the lowlands.

The Mean Elevation of the state of Connecticut is 500 feet above sea level.

[Pisarz]

http://www.friendsctstateparks.org/parks/talcott_mountain.htm

[TheEnd]

Anyone have Talcott Notch as an agent? Do they have any legit sales? It looks like they do - as far as Publisher Marketplace goes - but it doesn't look like anything big. Thanks in advance.

[CaoPaux]

Pubs like Adams Media are solid, but don't require an agent for submissions.

[gpanettieri]

It's been a while since I've checked in, but I'll address comments and questions. Talcott Notch is far from 'mysteriously named'. It is the name of a mountain, and was the location of the first office of the agency. Quite a few businesses located in that region adopt the name Talcott Notch since it's distinctive (though we do have some confusion with people thinking it's a person's name, and addressing emails and letters to Mr. Notch). We'd since moved, but have maintained the name.

All of our sales are 'legit', to advance and royalty-paying publishers. Many of the publishers we work with, such as McGraw-Hill, Amacom and Adams Media, do not require agents. If a specific publisher is the most appropriate house for a work, that's where it will be placed. I'm not quite certain where the notion that agents must work with those publishers requiring agents in order to be considered 'legitimate' since many publishers requiring agents do so as a convenience to them, since it acts as a first level of screening, and also allows for for an educated partner in the contract process. The majority of houses, including many very large publishers, do not require agents to submit material. Since we specialize in reference nonfiction and prescriptive nonfiction, we work largely with houses that do not require an agent. There is still quite a benefit to having an agent, even if the publisher doesn't require one. I've negotiated larger advances, better contracts, and have at times been able to exert pressure on houses that an author alone could not.

Finally, I am sorry my experience with Mr. Walker was not more successful. I was contracted to shop his book, How to Win a Gunfight, but unfortunately, as I had communicated to Mr. Walked several times, publishers were concerned about liability issues inherent in a title on armed self-defense, and those that were open to it reported that they had a competing title already on their list. Thus, regrettably, it was too tight a market. I did far more than just place a rights offering on the work, and did report the lack of enthusiasm for this title by publishers to the author. I had earlier placed a very successful title on armed self-defense to one of the very few houses open to use titles, and had felt Mr. Walker's filled a void and I was enthusiastic about it, but regrettably, there was simply not a 'slot' for the book with a publisher willing to work with these types of self-defense books. Mr. Walker later sent me a fiction manuscript, Pilgrim's Banner, which I did not accept or shop, since I'd reported to him that it needed work and revision. Mr. Walker is extremely talented and informed and an excellent writer of reference and self-help nonfiction.

[TheEnd]

I for one think it's admirable that Gina Panettieri would answer any questions raised about Talcott Notch. Most agents don't for whatever reason.

I have one question: does Talcott Notch still represent fiction, or is it all non nowadays? If you do represent fiction, do you have contacts with the big publishing houses or is it mainly with the smaller ones?

Thanks in advance.

[Roger J Carlson]

I'm not quite certain where the notion that agents must work with those publishers requiring agents in order to be considered 'legitimate' since many publishers requiring agents do so as a convenience to them, since it acts as a first level of screening, and also allows for for an educated partner in the contract process.This is often used as evidence of an unprofessional agent when the ONLY sales they can show are to publishers who do not require agented submissions. It should be remembered that this is only negative information and therefore not really proof that an agent is not a professional. On the other hand, if an agent CAN place a manuscript with a house that requires agented manuscripts, that is positive proof of the agent's professionalism.

The majority of houses, including many very large publishers, do not require agents to submit material.Interesting, we are often told just the opposite.

[gpanettieri]

Regarding whether we do accept fiction, we do, but it's not our main focus. My associate, Rachel Dowen, is focusing on fiction for juveniles, and I handle a few very select mysteries and thrillers.

Regarding Roger's comment on being told the opposite requiring houses requiring agents, I'm afraid I'm sticking with my facts. The majority of houses do not require agents. Again, Roger, I'm not sure how it's evidence of an unprofessional agent, and a general comment that it's often used as evidence doesn't really bolster your argument. So, if an agent places a book with a small house that requires an agent because they don't have any editorial assistants to pre-screen books, that's proof positive that the agent is a professional, but if a large commercial publisher that doesn't require an agent buys a book, it's negative information? In some cases, I've turned down offers on books from houses that require agents because the house that had the highest bid didn't require an agent. So that's negative information about me? I'm baffled, frankly.

[Roger J Carlson]

Regarding Roger's comment on being told the opposite requiring houses requiring agents, I'm afraid I'm sticking with my facts. The majority of houses do not require agents. Again, Roger, I'm not sure how it's evidence of an unprofessional agent, and a general comment that it's often used as evidence doesn't really bolster your argument. So, if an agent places a book with a small house that requires an agent because they don't have any editorial assistants to pre-screen books, that's proof positive that the agent is a professional, but if a large commercial publisher that doesn't require an agent buys a book, it's negative information? In some cases, I've turned down offers on books from houses that require agents because the house that had the highest bid didn't require an agent. So that's negative information about me? I'm baffled, frankly.I'm sorry. You've misconstued my intent. So let me elaborate.

First of all, you said you were uncertain where this argument comes from. I was just trying to show where it came from. Often we will see dodgy agents list manuscripts they have placed with small (sometimes micro) publishers who do not require agented submissions. This causes a certain amount of skepticism here because the author could have likely done it without the agent's help.

This is negative information. Not in the sense that it says something negative about the agent. It is negative in the sense that it doesn't say anything about the agent's ability to place manuscripts in the one place we, as authors, can't -- houses that require agented manuscripts. It does not prove that an agent is not professional. It simply does not prove that they are professional. Ergo "negative information".

On the other hand, if an agent has placed a manuscript with a house that requires agented manuscripts, that is positive information about their ability to do just that.

Secondly, my coment about being told the opposite was simply that: a comment. I did not mean to imply that it was wrong. Simply that we often hear differently. (Often by less-than-reputable publishers who what people to use their vanity/co-publish press.) It's refreshing to hear that the majority of publishers do accept unagented manuscripts. It gives me hope.

On a personal note, Gina, a couple of years ago I submitted a manuscript that you rightly rejected. It was (and is) deeply flawed, and I am working on correcting it. Only time will tell if I have the ability to do so. However, that you rejected it says something good about your taste in manuscripts. ;) I will also say that you rejected it with grace and consideration. That, in my experience, is fairly uncommon. Far more common are simple "Not for us" responses. So thanks for that.

As I look back over this thread, there is a lot that is not really about you or Talcott Notch. This is a writer's community and not a watch-dog group. As such, a lot of opinions get bantered about. Some have more validity than others. I really have no knowledge of whether you are professional or not. However, real information about actual sales is far greater proof than any amount of rhetoric here.

[victoriastrauss]

Regarding Roger's comment on being told the opposite requiring houses requiring agents, I'm afraid I'm sticking with my facts. The majority of houses do not require agents.I think there's a distinction to be made here between fiction and nonfiction, and within fiction, between the various markets. Nonfiction imprints of large houses are often open to unagented proposals, and the romance and to some extent the children's market also tend to be open to unagented manuscripts. Generally speaking, however, imprints of large houses that publish adult fiction are pretty much closed to unagented authors--either explicitly, because they have a stated practice of not accepting unagented material, or practically, because they give unagented submissions such minimal priority and/or have such long response times that unagented submission is not a good use of an author's time and resources. It may be the literal truth that you don't need an agent to submit to many of the major science fiction/fantasy imprints--but for authors, it's not a helpful truth, because the odds of even getting a serious reading for an unagented submission, much less a publication offer, are so slim.

Many independent publishers, by contrast, really do give serious consideration to unagented submissions--so it really is practical and effective for an unagented author to submit to an indie publisher.

As for track record, I think the important point to be made is that in looking for an agent, you should query agents whose track records are the best fit for your goals as an author. If you want to sell your novel to an imprint of one of the large houses, it's a good idea to target agents who have a track record of sales to those houses. If your ms. is nonfiction, it's a good idea to target agents with substantial nonfiction expertise. And so on.

- Victoria

[e.dashwood]

I could be wrong, and I'll check it when I have a chance, but I don't think any of the major trade publishers accept unagented material for nonfiction. Please name just one, and I'll admit I'm wrong.

Update: Just checked SandS, Penguin, HarperCollins, Random House. With the exception of Avon Romance imprint at HC none of these outfits accept unagented material. In fact, all of them go with similar boilerplate telling you to find an agent.

I remember the New Press, an independent but well-respected nonprofit press that exists to publish books the major houses won't touch says they will take a peek at unagented material but that the chances of publication are slim and none.

[James D. Macdonald]

Please name just one, and I'll admit I'm wrong.

John Wiley & Sons. (http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/Section/id-301840.html)

[gpanettieri]

McGraw-Hill Trade, Prentice Hall, the list goes on.

[e.dashwood]

The list does not go on. It's an exceptionally short list with its own high bar of entry. J.Wiley, McGraw, and Prentice-Hill for the most part are kind of privatized academic presses publishing books mostly by people with advanced degrees. Many of their books are either textbooks, references, or do dual-service as trade mass-market books. At best these are the exceptions that prove the rule that trade books with major publishers require agents. Wiley's Dummy series--a truly mass market trade imprint--pointedly does not accept unagented/unsolicited submissions.

Among these major trade publishers, the ones that pay big advances and are worth the time of most agents, none--with limited exceptions such as the aforementioned Avon Romance--accept unagented submissions. (Thanks to agentquery.com for this list):
Farrar, Straus, and Giroux (http://www.fsgbooks.com/)
Harcourt Books (http://www.harcourtbooks.com/)
HarperCollins (http://www.harpercollins.com/)
Henry Holt & Company (http://www.henryholt.com/)
Houghton Mifflin (http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/)
Hyperion Books (http://www.hyperionbooks.com/)
Kensington (http://www.kensingtonbooks.com/)
Penguin Group (http://www.penguinputnam.com/)
Random House (http://www.randomhouse.com/index.pperl)
DoubleDay-Broadway Publishing Group (http://www.randomhouse.com/publishers/pub_double_broad.html)
Alfred A. Knopf (http://www.randomhouse.com/publishers/pub_knopf.html)
Bantam Dell Publishing Group (http://www.randomhouse.com/bantamdell/)
Crown Publishing Group (http://www.randomhouse.com/publishers/pub_crown.html)
Rodale (http://www.rodale.com/)
Scholastic (http://www.scholastic.com/)
Simon & Schuster (http://www.simonsays.com/)
St. Martins Press (http://www.stmartins.com/)
Minotaur (http://www.minotaurbooks.com/minotaur/about.html)
Time Warner Book Company (http://www.twbookmark.com/)
W. W. Norton & Company (http://www.wwnorton.com/)

Tom Doherty and Harlequin, which I admitted from this list, do accept unsolicited mss.

I knew that when I issued my challenge about unagented submissions that there would be exceptions. Nothing is universal, but these exceptions are quibbles around the edges. Or to put it another way, if you want to submit an unagented mass market trade book to a major publisher, your chances are somewhere between slim and none.

[James D. Macdonald]

Incidentally, the phrase "the exception proves the rule" doesn't mean that "because there are exceptions this really, truly is a rule."

"Proves" in this context means "tests."

[Roger J Carlson]

Incidentally, the phrase "the exception proves the rule" doesn't mean that "because there are exceptions this really, truly is a rule."

"Proves" in this context means "tests."Which reminds me of one of my all time pet peeves: "The proof is in the pudding." It should be: "The proof (or test) of the pudding is in the eating."

[DaveKuzminski]

That's because you have to eat it to reach the proof.

[e.dashwood]

Oy veh! I didn't realize I was dealing with scholastics not Scholastic, and me a former philosophy major. I can say in response:

"Exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis," which means that the fact that certain exceptions are made confirms the rule applies in all other cases. Consider, if you go to a museum and see a sign that says, "Free entry, today only," this exception implies that the rule is no free admission. So strictly, in conformation with the Latin origin of this phrase (probably from Cicero), I should have observed that the fact that J.Wiley accepts some unagented submission is the exception that confirms (or implies) the rule that major publishers require agented submissions. I think in the common usage of this expression rule means customary practice rather than universal law of nature.

At least I didn't say I couldn't care less, and if I continue to channel Aquinas I might even let my hair down and explicate my contention that some things are more unique than others but that would take us even further off topic.

For a spirited discussion of "the exception that proves the rule" check out Cecil Adam's straightdope.com, one of my favorite web pages.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_201.html

[Axler]

Well...my standards as to whether an agent does a good job are pretty simple...

When your agent brings you the assignment and does all the contract negotiations, expedites any changes you have, moves the payment process along, then in my estimation the agent is not just doing a good job, but a great one.

So, as far as I'm concerned Gina is doing a great job.

[Will Lavender]

For a spirited discussion of "the exception that proves the rule" check out Cecil Adam's straightdope.com, one of my favorite web pages.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_201.html

No thanks. :flag:

[TheEnd]

Well...my standards as to whether an agent does a good job are pretty simple...

When your agent brings you the assignment and does all the contract negotiations, expedites any changes you have, moves the payment process along, then in my estimation the agent is not just doing a good job, but a great one.

So, as far as I'm concerned Gina is doing a great job.

Axler, thank you for getting this subject back on track. And thanks for your answer.

[Tripletsmom]

I've been impressed with how Gina has handled herself on this thread, so I sent her a query, which she responded positively to. She now has my proposal and first chapter. I hope it doesn't take as long to hear back as some people here have experienced. I have my fingers crossed.

[Tripletsmom]

Good luck, Barb!

[Tripletsmom]

Yes, triplets, and they'll be 3 in July. That means we're deep in the terrible 2s! It's a miracle I got this book finished. Hopefully, I can sell it!

[TrixieBelden]

Gina also has my proposal and has requested an additional chapter. I havent heard back yet but Im very excited.

[Tripletsmom]

Good luck!

[VictoriaLambert]

Rachel Dowen requested my partial and still has it. I haven't heard a peep from her; however, I'll just assume that no news is good news. :)

I should mention that she responds rather promptly to queries, though. :)

[waylander]

I also have a partial out with Ms Dowen

[VictoriaLambert]

I also have a partial out with Ms Dowen

@waylander: Did you send it recently? Have you heard any news since then?

Thanks! :)

[waylander]

Only a couple of weeks ago. Haven't heard anything since I sent it.

[VictoriaLambert]

Thanks, waylander! Please keep us informed (if possible) and good luck! I'll certainly post any updates as well! :)

[Chalula88]

I know there's already a posting for Talcott Notch Literary Agency, but I was wondering if people still have negative opinions and also if anyone has worked with Rachel Dowen.

Any and all comments would be extremely helpful.

[waylander]

Ms Dowen currently has my partial so I'm highly impressed with her judgement. This may be subject to future change ;)

[Chalula88]

LOL. She requested my partial as well and I've noticed that a few other people on the boards have partials out to her, but I've also heard that she's made next no sales. So....anyone have more details? I don't want to pay the postage to send it if she's not a legit agent.

[Chalula88]

Hey Axler,

It seems from your profile that you are doing very well! I was just nervous about looking into an agent that doesn't seem to have a lot of credits.

[James D. Macdonald]

Gina is my agent. Check my profile.

What conclusion do you draw about legitimacy?


Could you list the titles Gina sold for you?

[JAG4584]

May be the wrong place. Where guys do I go to find the agent list that will tell me who accepts snail mail queries etc.

[Soccer Mom]

agentquery.com.

[VictoriaLambert]

Greetings, Folks:

Does anyone have any updates concerning their partial submission with Ms. Dowen?

Have any of you received any feedback as of yet?

Thanks! :)

[ixchel]

Rachel Dowen has my partial too. She's had it since June.

[roskoebaby]

blip

[Beth Fehlbaum]

My agent is Rachel Dowen, and she is legitimate. Yes, she is a newer agent-- but my manuscript is currently on submission to several publishing houses, among them-- HarperCollins, Knopf, Delacourte, and Kunati; Brown Barn Books and Lobster Books.
So if your criteria for whether an agent is "legit" is whether or not she/he is able to "get into" the big houses, YES, Rachel Dowen is legit.
So is Gina Panettieri, her partner.
I do know that Rachel's computer has been giving her fits lately, but when I have a question for her, I receive an answer. You could always copy your message to Gina-- that's a guaranteed way for Rachel to get it, if her computer is being contrary that day.
You are welcome to e-mail me at mrsfehlbaum@yahoo.com, if you have other questions about Rachel.
I am absolutely confident that my manuscript will be published, and I have Rachel to thank for that. She (and Gina) seem to be committed to working with authors. They are a small agency, but they are committed to quality. I sent her my final MS the first week of June, and it was submitted to the houses within a couple of weeks. No feedback yet-- but then it hasn't been that long in the publishing world, either.

Beth Fehlbaum
Author, Courage in Patience
http://www.myspace.com/bethfehlbaum
http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/members/fehlbaum/ (http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/members/fehlbaum/)
http://www.authorsden.com/bethfehlbaum

[waylander]

Just heard back from Rachel Dowen about the partial that she requested at the end of July. She has asked to see the full.

[Beth Fehlbaum]

My agent is Rachel Dowen, and she is legitimate. Yes, she is a newer agent-- but my manuscript is currently on submission to several publishing houses, among them-- HarperCollins, Knopf, Delacourte, and Kunati; Brown Barn Books and Lobster Books.
So if your criteria for whether an agent is "legit" is whether or not she/he is able to "get into" the big houses, YES, Rachel Dowen is legit.
So is Gina Panettieri, her partner.
I do know that Rachel's computer has been giving her fits lately, but when I have a question for her, I receive an answer. You could always copy your message to Gina-- that's a guaranteed way for Rachel to get it, if her computer is being contrary that day.
You are welcome to e-mail me at mrsfehlbaum@yahoo.com, if you have other questions about Rachel.
I am absolutely confident that my manuscript will be published, and I have Rachel to thank for that. She (and Gina) seem to be committed to working with authors. They are a small agency, but they are committed to quality. I sent her my final MS the first week of June, and it was submitted to the houses within a couple of weeks. No feedback yet-- but then it hasn't been that long in the publishing world, either.

Beth Fehlbaum
Author, Courage in Patience
http://www.myspace.com/bethfehlbaum
http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/members/fehlbaum/ (http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/members/fehlbaum/)
http://www.authorsden.com/bethfehlbaum


I will post here when the dust settles. In the meantime, thanks, Rachel, for having confidence in my work and believing in Courage in Patience!

[Axler]

Congrats, Beth! Keep us apprised of the progress.

[Le Mot Juste]

I finished my YA fantasy in June. Since then I've gotten two requests for partials - my first was in July from Christopher Little in UK (that was a shocker for me but I wasn't shocked when they passed) and this week I got one from Gina Panettieri. I've read much of this thread and I have a good feeling. If she's a woman who's been in trouble in the past we have a lot in common! ;-)

LMJ

[CaoPaux]

Updating links: http://www.talcottnotch.net/index

http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/members/wynterwood/

[VictoriaM]

Congratulations Beth!!! I did see on the authors den website that you mentioned pursuing the publishing house that has offered you a contract. Would you mind elaborating on that? Thanks and please keep us posted on your publishing deal!

[honeycomb]

Does anyone have updates on Talcott?

[JAG4584]

Does anyone have updates on Talcott?


I can say that Gina P has my proposal and is taking it under submission we communicated a week ago. I noticed they updated their pub marketplace listing this month with Beth's work as noted below being reviewed by pub houses.

[Beth Fehlbaum]

NOW I can give more details.
Rachel Dowen of Talcott Notch Literary Services, my agent, negotiated my contract with Kunati, Inc., and I am very pleased with the results. Courage in Patience is slated to be published this coming fall. I continue to be completely happy with Talcott Notch and I am glad I signed with them!

[Moon Daughter]

Congrats, Beth!