What is a good plot?

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maestrowork

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The plot vs. writing thread prompts me to ask: What is a good plot? What do you consider a good plot or story? What interests you? Mayhem? Death? Blood? Evil? Hero's journey? War? Love? Romance? Revenge? Coming of age? Epic adventure?

And how do you know if something has a good plot if you only have one backcover blurb to go by? What makes a plot bad and what makes a plot good? How do you judge?
 

bluntforcetrauma

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I'll read anything as long as the plot's a good one. I don't care for war stories or dragons and swords too much.
 

brokenfingers

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The plot vs. writing thread prompts me to ask: What is a good plot? What do you consider a good plot or story? What interests you? Mayhem? Death? Blood? Evil? Hero's journey? War? Love? Romance? Revenge? Coming of age? Epic adventure?

And how do you know if something has a good plot if you only have one backcover blurb to go by? What makes a plot bad and what makes a plot good? How do you judge?

A good plot can have any of those things or none of them. It just has to be intriguing.

It has to make you say, "Hmmmmm... Wow, I wonder what would happen if..." and then compel you to pick up the book to find out.
 

Dan Razor

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Well, I think a good plot us more established by how it is written. Anything that gets me to hate, laugh, smile is a good plot in my eyes. I prefer books that are original and strikes something different than others.
 

JoNightshade

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For once in my life I actually have no answer. :) I really don't know what makes a "good plot." I think I could probably define what a good plot is for a particular genre, but it certainly wouldn't be all-inclusive even in that context.
 

KarlaErikaCal

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A good plot to me is something I can't put down. I like action and adventure. The odd thing about me is that I write SF, yet I've never read one for casual reading in my entire life. Weird huh? Also, for me, good plots need to cause a reaction from me. I need to feel the emotions the characters are feeling and the reason behind it.

About the backcover blurb, it just has to be something that interests me. If I like the blurb, I'll most likely read it. But if I find out it the plot isn't that good, I'll put it down.
 

orion_mk3

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"Wow, I wish I'd thought of that."

That pretty much sums things up for me--I tend to like plots that are similar to what I'd write for my own enjoyment. This means a lot of latitude, given my esoteric tastes, but it's really the only unifying thread between Dostoyevsky's "Crime and Punishment" and Alan Dean Foster's "Parallelities."
 

Hopcus

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As far as plots go, I feel there needs to be some kind of mystery to pull me along and keep me interested. But it doesn't have to be action and adventure by any means. Even something like figuring out why someone can't express their anger is enough. Things I like in a novel overall are humor and romance.
 

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A good plot can have any of those things or none of them. It just has to be intriguing.

It has to make you say, "Hmmmmm... Wow, I wonder what would happen if..." and then compel you to pick up the book to find out.

I completely agree with brokenfingers on this one. I'm drawn to any plot that can keep me intrigued in the story - whether it's about a guy battling vampires in San Francisco or a woman trying to find a husband in Regency London. A good plot's only requirement is to keep those pages flipping...
 

HourglassMemory

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A different one, I guess.
That's the reason people look at teh cover, read the back and say "Oh!"
And then they read it and tell others that teh story is different, and the others will say oh and buy the book.

It is the readers who make the plot good or not.
 

LaceWing

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I know the good guy(s) will win; but I want to start off right away doubting it. For instance, Patti Hearst: when the story first came out, I couldn't imagine that it would take the twists it did.

Or, it needs to circle around an issue I care about, or a type of person/personal circumstance that interests me. Also, I'm old and jaded. It has to be new, new, new -- but not too strange, not too grotesque. (Can't stand gangs and drugs stories.)

Sometimes I just enjoy the world, as in Pillars Of The Earth, or want to have my complacency jiggled, as in Strangers In A Strange Land. Here's a book that turns plot inside out: This Book Will Save Your Life by A. M. Homes. The worse things get for him, the better off the MC is. And there was a reverse murder mystery by Martin Amis; wish I could remember what it was.

Yep, this is a hard question. It really comes down to the theme being one that resonates, or is very different, that stretches and enlarges an age-old question. Meaning of life is a gimmee; I'm at that age.
 

Linton Robinson

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The Gunpowder Plot was pretty good.

Here's the deal. You tell me what "good" means, and I'll tell you what a good plot is. But I won't have to at that point, will I?
 

Siddow

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A good plot is one that makes sense, but only after finishing the book. I like twists that I don't see coming, situations that seem unresolvable, with an ending that knocks my socks off with the believability and inevitability of the whole thing.
 

Ravenlocks

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And how do you know if something has a good plot if you only have one backcover blurb to go by? What makes a plot bad and what makes a plot good? How do you judge?
All you can really tell from the blurb is whether it sounds like a plot that would intrigue you. I get seduced by good blurbs all the time and end up not enjoying the books. This is why bookstores are better than online booksellers; in a bookstore you can open the book and see if the execution grabs you.

For me, I pick up the book for the plot, but it's the writing and the characters that keep me reading.
 

Sonneillon

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I suppose I could chime in with the technical viewpoint - that a 'good' plot has a believable conflict that proceeds to an emotionally resonant climax, etc. Honestly, there are very few stories that haven't already been written a thousand times. Boil any story down to its most basic plot elements and you'll find most of the literature in circulation is variations on a theme. I once became really depressed by that idea and asked my ex-girlfriend (not ex at the time) what the point of writing was if all the stories have already been told, and she told me there was value in having a new way of telling it.

Before I go off into a philosophical tangent involving archtypical stories and their value to the human race at large, I'll curb myself by just saying this: Perspective makes all the difference, and in this area, the characters are the most important. They're the ones who participate in the plot, and they're the ones whose viewpoints the reader tends to take. So, in combination with the technical aspects of a good plot, I would say a good plot is in the details.
 

LaceWing

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Sonneillon, I'd be interested in that tangent . . . I'd like reference material, you know -- a cheat sheet!

And I agree about the details.
 

maestrowork

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A different one, I guess.
That's the reason people look at teh cover, read the back and say "Oh!"
And then they read it and tell others that teh story is different, and the others will say oh and buy the book.

It is the readers who make the plot good or not.

Interesting answer. Do people accept a good plot even if they have seen it before? Or does it have to be new and unique? Does it have to be high-concept? What intrigues you as a reader? Do you look for a "new" story or do you want something familiar and comforting? Do you want to be surprised or do you want it to be predictable (boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl, or good triumphs over evil, for example)? Will you read yet another "dinosaur in a park" story, or would you rather read something else that you've never seen before?

What intrigues you as a reader to consider a plot having "promise"?
 

Raphee

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Conflict and characters. The conflict has to be made real by the characters and vice versa.
I don't care if the end can be guessed at. How do they reach it. That always grabs me.
 

HourglassMemory

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Interesting answer. Do people accept a good plot even if they have seen it before? Or does it have to be new and unique? Does it have to be high-concept? What intrigues you as a reader? Do you look for a "new" story or do you want something familiar and comforting? Do you want to be surprised or do you want it to be predictable (boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl, or good triumphs over evil, for example)? Will you read yet another "dinosaur in a park" story, or would you rather read something else that you've never seen before?

What intrigues you as a reader to consider a plot having "promise"?

Well I'll try to answer them all. :tongue
"Do people accept a good plot even if they have seen it before?"
It depends on how that plot is presented. If two stories sound the same with a few changes, then one is bound to have more readers than the other.
My guess would be (and with this I answer your next two questions) that the one that was most unusual, would get more attention.
Because it's innate in us to examine the unusual, the quirkiness of a proposal that the writer presents to us.
And the weirder it is, more attention it's given to. You're more curious to see what roads and paths the writer takes you though.
"Does it have to be high-concept?"
I would guess that this would be a matter of personal choice, of personal liking and disliking, but I do tend to notice that the stuff that gets a lot of attention is, again, unusual stuff.

I know this is a site for writers, but I'm a person of the movies, but you go look at the highest grossing films and they're all unusual plots. Giant unsinkable ships that sink and pirates with drunken-like walking who go to the end of the world, fight a man cursed with tentacle beard turn their ships upside down to see the sun rise. Then you have Harry Potter.

And on top of this, if you're going to make it 'high' more attention is given to it.
Lord of the Rings, my god, you know? It has history books written about the events of the thousands of little tiny stories Tolkien had in mind.
It gets people entertained, which is also a factor in plot.

"What intrigues you as a reader?"
It's unusualness. And Bigness. But this is me obviously. But I notice I'm not alone.
I only remember the books by, sure the characters, but also those little scenes you remember after two months. That footprint in the mind.
Books are known for that. Moby Dick. White whale right there.
Of course it's more than that, it's the struggle and revenge and all of that.
But most of the time, people are just curious as to how a man is going to deal with a whale.
Obviously they're interested in the emotions involved in it.
But the plot is "man goes after white whale."
It's unusual. And the whale is white!

"Do you look for a "new" story or do you want something familiar and comforting?"
I'm most likely to pick up a "new story" than something I've seen thousands of times on the shelves and that people don't seem to comprehend that it's just going to fill the shelves with more unimaginative variation.
You see a book like "The da Vinci Code"...and then it's shelves filled with templar conspiracies and Mozart being involved in Mason stuff.
I mean, I roll my eyes to that sort of stuff.

I go for different stuff. I can jump from Douglas Adams to Lord of the Rings.
I honestly haven't read any of the usual classics (but I want to!), but I have no inherit likeness to the stories.
The stories that attract me are H.G.Well's "The Time Machine" and "The War of the Worlds" and Jules Verne's stories, which I haven't ever read from cover to cover.
And these books are popular. You say their titles and people are like "Oh, yeah."
These books are popular. It can't be just word of mouth. What makes it be word of mouth??? I think that's the question.
It's, again, the unusualness which attracts us as humans.
If you go for unusual, you're bound to get inquisitive eyes skimming the back of your book, not to mention that you might put a smile on the face of the publishers when that story comes out from a pile of what they thought was going to be more of the same.

"Do you want to be surprised, or do you want it to be predictable?"
Both really.
Show me good versus evil, but among insects or trees or planets or tables. Or walls or rocks. Be interesting. And insane! Girl likes boy and such, get them separated by megalomaniacal environments that want to eat the boy who's going for the girl.
Just thinking about this I get these really eccentric ideas.

"Will you read yet another "dinosaur in the park"?"
From the start, I'm going to think that it's a writer trying to be as popular as "Jurassic Park". However, if it gets word of mouth, I'll pick it up. Why? Because if it's word of mouth, it has something unusual about it, which is intriguing a lot of people.
Of course I don't think this through in my daily life.
It's automatic.

"What intrigues you as a reader to consider a plot having "promise"?"

Unusualness. Out of the ordinary. And the more eccentric the better. For ME, mind you.
If you're having characters saying that Jesus was a human and be controversial and have people shooting each other in it and put da Vinci's works of art in it, I'll be glad to read your book.
It's intriguing. It's a weird combination of things!
If you're having a 4 foot high being destroy the greatest evil of middle earth, which is just a ring.... I'll pick it up.

It's curiosity in how the writers are going to get through these ridiculous ideas, with their chins high in the air and actually getting praise for it because they did it in an entertaining way.


That's what I look for in books anyway. And that's what I try to do with my own plots.
The whole memorable unusualness is something I'm constantly thinking of. And I tend to make them big. And because it's stuff I would want to see in my book, and I know it's stuff people would like to read.
 
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Sonneillon

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Sonneillon, I'd be interested in that tangent . . . I'd like reference material, you know -- a cheat sheet!

And I agree about the details.

I cannot answer this now, but I will answer it later when I have done the work I need to get done for tonight. If I forget, prod me via PM.
 

HourglassMemory

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So... you do prefer high concepts, then. Napoleon Dynamite vs. The English Patient, so to speak.
If you were going to put them both in a story I gues I would skim it over.
But even the 'Napoleon Dynamite' and 'the english patient' would have to be original.
For example, make it all literal.
Napoleon, the french man, with his hands about to acquire dynamite, and the only person able to stop him is an ill englishman.
Alternative history, I guess you would put it in that category.

But anyway, yes. I think the more unusual (thus interesting to me) it was the more attention it would get. From me anyway.

And this doesn't apply just to the plot, but the narrative, the way it's written could have its own evocative, attractive way. Which would have to be different to stand out.
 

Pamster

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I am reading Syd Field's Screenplay, revised edition, and he's spoke about there being a paradigm, a form you follow, but like a suitcoat jacket, it will be different material but itself remain a suitcoat jacket. Hope that made sense, I am new to screenplay penmenship, but I think it's a great way to tell a story or I wouldn't watch movies and tv. Like how I enjoy reading a good novel, but it's not the same structure on the page and that affects your writing as much as following the rules does. Very cool topic guys, some good stuff in here. :)
 

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I generally only read things that could happen in real life, otherwise i really struggle to relate to it (saying that though, i did go through a phase when i was 13 of being obsessed with vampire novels).
I really like to see character progression, and for me it's not always what happens but how they deal with it. Novels are liking getting to snoop around somebody else's house, you can find out all sorts about them!
 

Sean D. Schaffer

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The plot vs. writing thread prompts me to ask: What is a good plot? What do you consider a good plot or story? What interests you? Mayhem? Death? Blood? Evil? Hero's journey? War? Love? Romance? Revenge? Coming of age? Epic adventure?

And how do you know if something has a good plot if you only have one backcover blurb to go by? What makes a plot bad and what makes a plot good? How do you judge?


A good plot, to me, is any plot that keeps me riveted to the book I'm reading. I want to care for the characters and what they go through as I read. In some cases, I would even dare say I've read books that didn't seem to have a plot, but they kept me interested because I was concerned for the characters and their adventures.

So I guess I'll have to swallow my words of an earlier thread -- as well as possibly my pride -- and say that really, what matters to me is a well-crafted book with good plot, writing, and characterization. Not just plot, not just writing, not just characterization; but all three, working together to form a coherent story that I'm interested in.

You've been making for some interesting threads lately, Maestro. Very thought-provoking. :)
 
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