horrible, horrible book

varmint · Feb 7, 2008

tried to write a fun uplifting story. after about 300 rejection letters telling me it was "too dark" i've decided to get all the dark out so that i can start fresh.

i've seen Grizzly Man about fifty times now. and it just keeps getting funnier. figure, what the world needs is children's book telling the story from the bear's perspective.

i call it...

Mr. Fwuffybuns....

Dreamer3702 · Feb 8, 2008

Love the drawing! Sorry to hear about the rejections

dolores haze · Feb 8, 2008

A children's story based on Grizzly Man?????????

How did you pull off the grizzly killing and eating the two humans in a way that wouldn't be terrifying to children? And the grizzly being hunted down and killed?

Brilliant documentary, but I didn't find it that funny. I spent most of my time with my mouth agape, and shaking my head in disbelief.

Love the illustration.

slcboston · Feb 8, 2008

I know we try not to judge too harshly around here... but if you thought "Grizzly Man" was a comedy you've got SERIOUS issues, dude. It's likely also connected to why you're being rejected in the children's market. I don't know why you read to little children, but I don't do it to scare the @#$% out of them, and don't think you're going to find a market for that.

At least not a market I want to know about.

Polenth · Feb 8, 2008

dolores haze said:
How did you pull off the grizzly killing and eating the two humans in a way that wouldn't be terrifying to children? And the grizzly being hunted down and killed?

Am I the only 'Algie met the bear' fan?

I did read a picture book where a child was eaten by a bear, but the child was mean, so I was fine with that. I must have been about six at the time. There are ways to make that sort of theme work.

With that said, I took the original post to mean the bear thing was just a way to vent. Not that the story rejected was about bears eating people.

Autodidact · Feb 8, 2008

Lemony Snickett and Willy Wonka were both huge hits, and quite grizzly. Hey, think the the Brothers Grimm--pretty gory and tragic stuff in there. Ice Queen? I think kids kind of like this stuff.

Shweta · Feb 8, 2008

You should take a peek at Why I don't do kids' books by Ursula Vernon.

ishtar'sgate · Feb 8, 2008

I wouldn't worry about it being too dark. You simply have to find the right agent/publisher. I got the same comments about my novel but I found a publisher who was intrigued by that, they bought it and believe it or not the book is in high school reading programs! You appear to be writing for young children, though, and as already stated they love to be scared. I can still remember reading stories like that to goggle-eyed little kids. Getting fattened up for the oven in Hansel & Gretel is pretty frightening stuff. Consider your audience. What's appropriate in a horror story for adults isn't as appropriate for young children. Do your homework, check out the books and movies that target your key audience and make any necessary changes then send it out again. Good luck.
Linnea

veinglory · Feb 8, 2008

My favorite story as a kid was 'The Griffin and the Minor Canon' by Stockton. Talk about dark. But wonderful. I think it may still be my favorite story of all time.

varmint · Feb 8, 2008

i remember watching the movie "pocahantas". at one point she crawls into a bear den. picks up a cub, and sings to it in front of the mother. i find this almost criminaly naive attitude common in children's books. the disney view of nature had a hand in creating fools like treadwell. about time someone corrected it.

mr. fwuffybuns is a bear. he's enjoying the arctic summer when several hippies invade his personal space. they point a camera at him, they sing to him, they take samples of his poo. after valiant attempts at ignoring them, mr. fwuffybuns finally snaps.

in a break from real life, no one gets eaten. but there will be alot of screaming and running. n the final scene, the bear dozes on the grass. it's a happy ending now that the hippies have been driven off.

have no expectations that this will ever see print. but wanted to get it out of my head before starting the next project. sort of cathartic.

varmint · Feb 8, 2008

ishtar's gate,

somebody is buying all those copies of ghashlycrumb tinies. the first copy of alice in wonderland i ever saw was illustrated by ralph steadman. so there's a market, just got to break through to a publisher.

dolores haze · Feb 9, 2008

Has children's publishing become more conservative as it's become more corporate? My kids have a huge collection of picture books, and only two are even slightly dark in tone. Those two are among their favorites. The thing I have learned is writing a story that children will love isn't necessarily the way to go in children's writing. Children do not buy the books. Agents and editors and parents and teachers decide what children will read (or have read to them)

Good pointe re disneyfication of wildlife, Varmint. I agree with you. It would make an excellent discussion topic in the children's writing forum, if you want to discuss further.

I think your story sounds great, and the illustrations are delightful. You could always consider self-publishing. I've heard good things about Lulu. Good luck with your next project. Are those your own illustrations? There are some agents who will only represent writer/illustrators.

Oh, yeah, I've got bear issues myself. I wrote this before I saw Grizzly Man.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82648
It lead to an interesting discussion with another children's writer about picture books for adults. There used to be a tiny market for these. I don't know if it still exists.

myscribe · Feb 9, 2008

Is it Neil Gaiman who did the picture book The Wolves in the Walls?

You might want to study that book for tone. It shows that you can do a darkly toned children's book today if you do it right.

Kerr · Feb 9, 2008

My daughters' favorite when they were little was, The Goblin's Gonna Get You, with the title in the repetitive phrase, 'The goblin's gonna get you if you don't watch out!' We had that book out from the library every other week, and they would read along with me.

I say make sure the irresponsibility and stupidity of the humans is humorously undeniable, then try again. (The 1st picture doesn't seem at all humorous. Maybe they'd like the bear better waving 'Bye-bye!' Or a different name on the airplane, and perhaps tiger stripes with teeth on the front? It flies in looking fierce, but leaves like a frightened kitty. Just thoughts, but as far as we were concerned at that time, the pictures were almost more important than the words. And the busier, the better. Your task should not just be to frighten, but to teach them a better way. ) If humor doesn't work, wait till you've made a name. They'll love it then.

DWSTXS · Feb 9, 2008

Hey Varmint............that's REALLY bizarre.......but only because my recently completed novel has HIPPIES and a BEAR kills and eats one of them.

varmint · Feb 9, 2008

i draw these things to amuse myself. don't know any other way to go about it. the book will be designed to fit into 32 pages/sixteen illustrations. most of the humor will be pretty easy to set up. and the reader should empathize with fwuffybuns when he goes amok. it's a delicate issue, because i don't want to anthropomorphize him. he is an animal. can't let the projection get out of hand.

and there will be violence. anything else would just mean giving in to the hippie-city folk delusion. or maybe the bear should take up the issue with the local human rights commission. they could all meet for long term counseling, some role playing. and a big group hug at the end of every session. maybe fwuffybuns could get a prescription for ritalin. would that be a better ending?

delores haze,
the comic book stores are full of arrested adolescents. got to be a way of getting their attention. the picture book is just a format. open to anything you want to do with it. i like to think it's wide open for something different. and at least my idea won't get lost among the ten thousand knock offs of "runaway bunny".

couldn't access your earlier writing for some reason.

DWSTXS,
there was a movie out last year called "gipper". a serial killer in a ronald reagan costume chases a bunch of counter culture youths though the forest with a chainsaw.

varmint · Feb 9, 2008

here the hippies sing mr. fwuffybuns to sleep.

Shweta · Feb 9, 2008

I am adoring this, Varmint.
If it was in bookstores I'd totally buy it for my nephew. And then my sister in law would never talk to me again

dolores haze · Feb 9, 2008

Are those darn hippies singing "Puff the Magic Dragon?"

No need to access my story. Suffice to say that a child does actually get eaten by bears in the end of mine - and she deserves it.

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 9, 2008

I love the bear. He's midway between realistic and anthropomorphic in a really charming way.

There's a great book about the history of interaction between humans and bears at Yellowstone National Park. It's a fascinating story of how the protocols of how humans view wild animals have changed over the years, from tourists being encouraged to feed the begging roadside bears to today's hushed crowds of telephoto-lens acolytes.

It's called Do (Not) Feed the Bears: The Fitful History of Wildlife and Tourists in Yellowstone by Alice Wondrak Biel.

benbradley · Feb 9, 2008

Hmm, that first drawing has an airplane in it - reminds me of Richard Bach, "Illusions" and such. I think he featured airplanes in everything he wrote except that "Seagull" book. And even then it was all about flying.

Then that last one in post #17 - someone is playing a guitar - Woody Guthrie's guitar had the words "This Machine Kills Fascists" on it. Unfortunately, these hippies needed a machine that kills bears...

Recent decades of Political Correctness may have watered down things but it seems to me that violence and death have always been in children's literature, and it started from a very young age. I remember visualising this one as my kindergarden teacher sang it to us, and was glad I was no longer a baby (circa 1962):
http://www.babycenter.com/0_lullaby-lyrics-rock-a-bye-baby_6733.bc

Would such children's literature, popular many decades ago, have any chance of getting published now?

spike · Feb 10, 2008

Kerr said:
My daughters' favorite when they were little was, The Goblin's Gonna Get You, with the title in the repetitive phrase, 'The goblin's gonna get you if you don't watch out!' We had that book out from the library every other week, and they would read along with me.

That was also MY favorite! Particularly the little girl who "Mocked them and shocked them and said, 'I don't care!'".

All the kids in the story are taken by goblins because they are bad.

ishtar'sgate · Feb 10, 2008

Varmint, your drawings are great. Why don't you apply for work at Disney? My nephew started out as an artist for a video game company in Kelowna, B.C., Disney was interested in their company, loved my nephew's work, bought the company and now he works for Disney doing animation. Your drawings look an awful lot like something they'd go for. Anyway, just a thought.
Linnea

MsJudy · Feb 10, 2008

Maybe you should check out the comic books/manga thread. If you really wanted people to see this, not self-published, you'd have more luck with that format. Edgy, anti-PC humor is far more likely to find an audience among teens than parents, and parents buy the picture books.

mcnorth · Feb 10, 2008

This board is amazing. Some of the people around here have absolutely NO sarcasm detector at all. Shocking, really.

A ton of good info kicking around and a wealth of good advice to be had but man... the humour that is met with crickets and indifference or is totally misunderstood - I've never seen anything like it.

Seems this thread did eventually come around, but it started slow... how can you think he's in any way serious?

horrible, horrible book

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