The Contemporary Romantic Comedy

[ImagineAZ]

OK, here's the dilemma that sent me searching for help and eventually led me to this awesome site:

It was a true life story that inspired me to write this screenplay. I want(ed) to write a story about two unique and different people, what brings them together and how they make it work (or not work.)

The thing is: I don't feel like I want to add a silly contrivance and I don't want to relegate the relationship to a subplot, secondary to some grander story about a bank robbery or a pregnancy or whatever. I don't want the guy to be a Martian and I don't want the girl to be a mermaid. I don't want anyone to suffer from amnesia.

But here's the big one: I don't want a triangle. I want it to be about the two of them and why it's difficult but rewarding for them to be together.

But I also admit that I want this thing to have a chance to sell, to actually be a movie one day.

The closest comparisons I could make would be "Harold and Maude" or "Amelie." I'm not claiming that I've got something as powerful as those two, but they're good examples of movies that worked without anything supernatural, without multiple love interests, and without anything external binding them together or driving them apart.

Is this something today's story analyst would look at, skim through, and ask "Where's the story?" Is there room in today's cinematic world for something like this?

Thanks for any opinions.

Imagine

[NikeeGoddess]

there's a big difference between romantic comedy and romance w/comedic elements like ghost, being there, and then there's the romance with no comedy like bridges of madison county, birth. for the latter two i think the story has to be seemingly about something other than the romance but it's the strength of the romance that drives the story forward.

[ImagineAZ]

I'm definitely talking about a comedy, partly because the real life situation that inspired the story was quite funny to me.

[Plot Device]

without anything external binding them together or driving them apart.


So where then does "conflict" come into it all?

No conflict = no plot.

[ImagineAZ]

The conflict is completely internal. It's a very vertical story. Therein lies my question.

What was the conflict in "Harold and Maude" or "Amelie" or "When Harry Met Sally" or "Annie Hall"? Those are almost completely vertical stories, but only "Harold" was a writer's first screenplay. I'm thinking that maybe the others would not have been sellable as spec scripts.

So you're saying that external conflict is needed?

[ImagineAZ]

Actually, "Harold and Maude" isn't such a perfect example, because Harold's mother was a bit of an external conflict, but she really didn't have much influence on Harold in the story. In fact, that story hardly has any internal conflict either; it's mainly about two unusual people getting to know each other. And it's one of my favorite movies.

[Plot Device]

The conflict is completely internal. It's a very vertical story. Therein lies my question.

What was the conflict in "Harold and Maude" or "Amelie" or "When Harry Met Sally" or "Annie Hall"? Those are almost completely vertical stories, but only "Harold" was a writer's first screenplay. I'm thinking that maybe the others would not have been sellable as spec scripts.

So you're saying that external conflict is needed?


I am ashamed to admit I haven't seen ANY of the four specimen films you're pointig to here (and I do realize they are all considered GREAT films, so that's to my detriment that I have not seen them). So I can't grasp the base reference/comparison you're striving for here. The best I can say is I've seen many CLIPS from those films, so I have SOME exposure to them, but not a clear view of their actual structures. (And I'm not sure what you mean by a "vertical story" so I guess that's a hip screenwriting term I've missed out on. I've heard of what's caled "vertical writing" which insists upon lots of short and succinct action paragraphs and plenty of white space, but I'm not at all sure what is meant by a "vertical story.")

I can't claim to be an expert on the rom-com. But my understanding is that ALL stories must have conflict. If you're going for what you are calling an "internal" conflcit, you better make it interesting and dress it up with KILLER dialogue the likes of which wold make Tarantino and Woody Allen cry with envy. Otherwise you're PROBABLY in danger of straying into the territory of novel with lots of private monologues and the voice-overs of people's inner thoughts, and other cinematic no-no's that are best left to a novel.


::ETA::

My favorite rom-coms are "Maid in Manhatan," "My Big Fat Greek Wedding," "Sleepless in Seattle," "Fever Pitch" and "While You Were Sleeping." All of them had external circumstacnes that caused roadblocks for the two would-be lovers be together.

[ImagineAZ]

Well, what you're saying is exactly what I was thinking people would say, and exactly my dilemma. I am going to write the story that I have in mind regardless, but I'm just thinking that it will ultimately find its only home in my computer.

By "vertical," I simply mean that the conflict is mainly inside the minds of the characters, rather than external. Conflict can exist on personal and extra-personal levels, but it all revolves around the internal issues. "Vertical" explores each event/moment more deeply, but doesn't have that many events.

"Horizontal" would mean that lots of events happen to push the story, and the conflict is often only external. Horizontal simply means "moves along the horizontal timeline," meaning "has lots of events."

Without spoiling anything, I'll just say that the plots for those 4 movies are extremely simple, almost to the point of being non-existent by pop-cinema standards. I've often had funny conversations with people by starting with the question "What is the plot of 'Annie Hall'"? There really is no plot. It's just a year in the life of two really goofy people. Same with "Harold and Maude." The characters learn from each other and change, but they don't really DO anything.

In my story, there is personal and even extra-personal conflict, but it all revolves around the emotional issues. Any external conflict is caused by their internal conflict, rather than the other way around.

[dolores haze]

Why not write it as a novel?

[dpaterso]

I think maybe you've got an inside-out romantic comedy. Instead of hoping they surmount the barriers that exist against their coming together, the audience wonders if these two people are even right for each other, and will they remain together. But that's still technically romcom, 'cause it's a "will they or won't they?" situation, with laughs.

-Derek

[ImagineAZ]

dolores,

Two real events from my life inspired short stories. This one inspired a screenplay. I can't readily explain it, but there was never a question in my mind that the earlier events in my life were short stories, and there was never a question in my mind that this later situation in my life was a movie.

And what makes this story funny (to me anyway) is the way the inner conflict plays out physically. And I've used cinematic techniques to demonstrate the thematic message I'm going for. And most importantly, it's not a story about tons of thinking. The characters think they are far more self-aware than they are, so they don't even realize there is deep introspection to be done.

[Flu]

From your posts, it sounds like this is a story you're passionate about. So I'd say, write it and worry later about finding a home for it.

If it's excellent, I think there's definitely room for this type of movie. And if you don't immediately find a home for it, you may have more luck in the future.
Rom com is one of those genres that never really goes away. There's always an audience for them, they're usually not expensive to make, and the script will probably stay current for a long time without needing major changes.

-Johan

ETA: Ah, I think you already wrote it. My bad. Good job! My point remains. :)

[ImagineAZ]

I think maybe you've got an inside-out romantic comedy. Instead of hoping they surmount the barriers that exist against their coming together, the audience wonders if these two people are even right for each other, and will they remain together. But that's still technically romcom, 'cause it's a "will they or won't they?" situation, with laughs.

-Derek

Derek, there's no maybe about it. You're exactly right. It's an inside-out romantic comedy.

A recent example of "Are these two people even right for each other?" would be "Knocked Up."

[ImagineAZ]

Flu,

Yeah. I was just kind of disappointed when I came to the realization that I have something to say and nobody's ever going to see it. But that is exactly what I'm going to do. Thanks :)

[dpaterso]

A recent example of "Are these two people even right for each other?" would be "Knocked Up."
So... being able to "compare" with a recent hit even in the most general terms is a good thing, right? That's maybe how to pitch the idea, find that comparison, emphasize it's not the getting together that's important, it's the staying... or not.

I know the "rom" comes before the "com" in "romcom" but for me the laughs are 100x more important than the setup -- as long as it makes me smile and occasionally chuckle, and you describe the characters in funny or quirky terms that suggest where the conflict lies, I'm aboard, no need to sell me on anything else. Is it unreasonable to suggest that other people might feel the same way?

...If you're looking for a read, feel free to send me the first 20 pages. If I laugh out just loud once, I'll ask for the rest. :D

-Derek

[ImagineAZ]

Derek,

Well, there is a comparison to "Knocked Up," but at least that movie had the baby. Mine doesn't even have that. But I hope my combination is more believable, although unlikely. To me, the combination in "Knocked Up" was totally unrealistic.

But I was thinking that if I ever got a chance to pitch, I'd mention that one, along with the 4 I mentioned earlier.

Thank you for the reading offer. I've written the script twice, but the process was more of a learning experience. Now I'm ready to REALLY write it. I'm working on my final step outline right now.

I'm thinking of writing a short treatment that would include the real life situation that inspired the story. It would also include notes such as "Here is where I would have to inject the story/external conflict." Would you be willing to read something like that if I write it?

[dpaterso]

Sure, no problem. You know we've also got a Screenwriting critique forum in the private Share Your Work area if you want a wider spectrum of views.

-Derek

[KELLY]

Are the people in your script in love or are they falling in love?

Kelly

[KELLY]

I went to make lunch, and then needed to come back.

It seems to me that if you have two people in love then you can have conflict, but if they are falling in love they can't have a conflict.

Kelly

[ImagineAZ]

Kelly,

Actually, the two people are lifelong platonic friends. The script starts when they start to take the relationship to a new level.

[KELLY]

Then they must have some conflict. Day to day life leads to conflict. In your real life situation was their conflict? You did think that was funny.

I really love that you struggle with conflict in your script. I don't think they ever made a love story without a conflict in it.

I'll watch this thread to see what happens.

Kelly

[ImagineAZ]

Oh, there's definitely conflict, but it's all internal. There are no disapproving in-laws, no 3rd love interest, etc. The point I'm trying to get across is that the only obstacle to their getting together is their own personalities.

[LIVIN]

You say there's nothing external but you say:

And what makes this story funny (to me anyway) is the way the inner conflict plays out physically.

So it sounds to me like, in your mind, you have some sense of these externalizations. Which is all you need - external ways to bring out the internal conflict. These external ways don't necessarily need to be conflict.

[ImagineAZ]

LIVIN

I figured somebody would mention that hehe. The fact is that the inner issues cause some funny physical stuff to happen. In other words, there IS personal and extra-personal physical conflict, but they cause it themselves, just by being themselves. The conflict isn't caused by trying to fall in love while trying to escape from drug dealers, or while running from the law, etc.

[ImagineAZ]

You say there's nothing external but you say:



So it sounds to me like, in your mind, you have some sense of these externalizations. Which is all you need - external ways to bring out the internal conflict. These external ways don't necessarily need to be conflict.

Now, THAT answer is what I was hoping for. I was hoping that somebody would think that I could sustain a story like that ;)

[KELLY]

I would always keep conflict out, but you seem to need to have it so bad. Why would you need It unless it's what you felt comfortable with from the relationship you base the script on.

Kelly

[ImagineAZ]

Well, the old adage is "All story progresses only through conflict."

The crossroads I've come to is this: I have a couple characters and a unique relationship between them. Is it enough to play the relationship out and have THAT be the main plot? The internal conflict is organic to their relationship. And the question I was asking is: do I need to come up with some kind of external conflict (a subplot or even a MAIN plot) to sustain an entire movie? Plot Point thinks I probably need to add an external storyline. Derek and LIVIN think maybe I don't need one. I'm still unsure, still thinking of ideas that would connect to the main relationship.

Examples: "50 First Dates" - Drew Barrymore loses her memory every day.
"Knocked Up" - they're having a baby.
"13 Going on 30" - she traveled through time.
"Romancing the Stone" - they're in the middle of a dangerous adventure.

I didn't want my story to have a primary external plot like that.

Examples of the story I want: "Amelie" - the conflict is her shyness.
"Harold and Maude" - there's not really much conflict at all, internal or external. It's just about two really odd people getting to know each other. Their internal issues don't pose a threat to their relationship at all.
"Annie Hall" - the conflict is the mental problems of Annie and Alvy.
"When Harry Met Sally" - the conflict is the difference in their personalities.

That's what my story is like.

[NikeeGoddess]

you've done all this talking about your story but after all of your posts i've got nothing from it. what are you asking? is your story good enough to be made into a movie?! not one of us can answer that for you. it's a question we ask ourselves about our own scripts. there is no golden answer to that question.

in truth - there have been so many movies made that virtually every story can be made into a movie. it's all about execution. can you execute your story to make it filmworthy? i don't know. can you?

[KELLY]

[quote=ImagineAZ;

Derek and LIVIN think maybe I don't need one. I'm still unsure, still thinking of ideas that would connect to the main relationship.

If you did want to try one you could try the "my family hates him" thing.


Kelly

[ImagineAZ]

Kelly, that was one of the ones I DEFINITELY didn't want to do. In fact, I don't want to "try" anything. The story is what it is and it's based on a genuine real life story. To me, it was funny, and it involved real people with real personalities and real issues that a real couple could face.

I really don't want any of the traditional twists (Montague-Capulet, unexpected baby, etc.) and I really don't want to take emphasis away from the personalities involved. I'm going to follow the tradition of the movies I mentioned earlier in this thread and if Hollywood doesn't like it, their loss hehe :P

Thanks all for all your help.

Imagine

[KELLY]

It sounds like you know what you want to do. Good luck.

Kelly

[NikeeGoddess]

AZ - i have one suggestion for you - whatever the quirks or whatever the issues are about your two lovebird characters -- go the extreme with it.
i'm not a big fan of most romantic comedies but i just absolutely loved Punch Drunk Love http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0272338/plotsummary it was a very "different" adam sandler movie.

[gp101]

Kelly,

Actually, the two people are lifelong platonic friends. The script starts when they start to take the relationship to a new level.

Two people have been lifelong platonic friends. Cool. I've had those. The story starts when each is starting to fall in love with the other, but neither admits it to each other, is that correct?

SPOILER:

I immediately thought of When Harry Met Sally. But there were external forces that caused a lot of tension for them, particularly their friends, who eventually married each other. There were other people they dated--maybe not a straightforward love triangle, but metaphorically, you can group all the others as one single, third party.

I saw Amelie a while ago. I don't remember much about it other than it felt like an art-house film that was fun and light. But I do remember WHMS which I haven't seen in an even longer time. Read Billy Mernit's "Writing the Romantic Comedy". Fantastic stuff specifically about the genre. I think it will help you tremendously. I do believe he breaks down some movies including WHMS and the Woody Allen flick you referenced up-thread.

I wish you luck.

And for the record... I ended up banging three of the five platonic friends I had. The other two got married. I think they were afraid they might be next.

[nmstevens]

Kelly, that was one of the ones I DEFINITELY didn't want to do. In fact, I don't want to "try" anything. The story is what it is and it's based on a genuine real life story. To me, it was funny, and it involved real people with real personalities and real issues that a real couple could face.

I really don't want any of the traditional twists (Montague-Capulet, unexpected baby, etc.) and I really don't want to take emphasis away from the personalities involved. I'm going to follow the tradition of the movies I mentioned earlier in this thread and if Hollywood doesn't like it, their loss hehe :P

Thanks all for all your help.

Imagine

What might be helpful to you -- and I'm afraid I'm coming into this thread a bit late -- is not to think in terms of conflict per se -- but to think in terms of needs and obstacles.

If someone needed something -- "to be with the person they love" -- and they immediately achieved that need -- in whatever love story you could think of -- then the story would instantly be over before it began. There wouldn't be a story, per se.

In any story that you can think of, one can identify what it is that prevents that person from achieving what it is that they need.

In Harry Met Sally, it isn't "conflict" per se, but the fact that these two friends, who are so perfect for one another, simply are unable to recognize this fact, as they blunder through one unhappy relationship after another, until they finally grow to realize that they belong together.

That is the "obstacle" -- their inablity to recognize the fact that they are meant for one another. And over the course of the movie, these two people have to somehow overcome that obstacle, even though they don't quite realize that that's what they need to do.

So that's really the question you need to ask in terms of your own story. If your lovers hook up in the first scene and everything is fine and it stays fine -- they date, everything's great, they get engaged, they get married, nothing stands in their way, either internally or externally -- there's no story -- because story is about need -- and obstacle -- and about the overcoming of that obstacle.

If you understand what the obstacle is -- what it is that prevents your lovers from simply being together from the beginning -- let's say that it's an internal obstacle.

Well, the audience isn't mind readers. It's then your job to find a way to take that internal obstacle - whatever it is that's going on inside the heads of your lovers -- and externalize it. Find a way to turn the internal problem into external action. Things that they do. Choices that they make. Opportunities presented but not acted on -- or acted on incorrectly.

That's how an audience comes to understand -- through the actions and decisions of your characters -- what's going on inside their heads.

NMS