Alchemist steals own book.

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JohnDavidPaxton

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http://torrentfreak.com/alchemist-author-pirates-own-books-080124/

Although I know this won't convince anyone, I thought I would post it. The Alchemist is one of those novels that is difficult to not to respect if not absolutely enjoy.

I find it very interesting that the authors who send out their stuff to the internet for people to "steal" and say it works out well for them also note a huge bump in sales.

It is almost like respecting your audience and admitting there is a shifting paradigm is the right way to go. Or something.

But he only sold like, what, six million copies? If it wasn't for people looting him blind with torrents he probably would have told ten times that. I bet he was really just bought out by big pirate money.
 

JBI

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It doesn't matter; those books would be pirated anyway. He going with it just gives him publicity.

In terms of quality of literature, I find him mediocre at best anyway, so this is no real "deal". It's just a free bad book in my opinion.

Anyway, good for him for giving it away I guess, just lets more people read. Those that don't want to pay won't pay regardless.
 

PinkUnicorn

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I don't know, I think what he's doing is pretty weird. I mean, I can understand going to a bookstore and handing out free copies of your book to folks that way, but to let them download it for free off the internet? It just feels like he's saying it's okay to pirate books, by giving them the book instead of stopping them from taking it in the first place. I don't know, maybe it works for him, but I just think it would hurt sales.
 

Shady Lane

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How odd.

This book was required reading for my 10th grade English class. I can't say I enjoyed it.
 

JohnDavidPaxton

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I don't know, I think what he's doing is pretty weird. I mean, I can understand going to a bookstore and handing out free copies of your book to folks that way, but to let them download it for free off the internet? It just feels like he's saying it's okay to pirate books, by giving them the book instead of stopping them from taking it in the first place. I don't know, maybe it works for him, but I just think it would hurt sales.

Actually that's exactly what he's saying. He is saying it is 100% fine for you to download and read his book and never buy it.

He also thinks, for some baffling reason, that free trials and word of mouth advertising increase sales.
 

Garpy

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maybe...because it's true?

My opinion is divided on this. It does seem that embracing piracy seems to seed sales, and the ergonomic issues are quite simple. People like getting stuff for free....they'll grab it and sample it, and if they like it they'll go buy it because it's less hassle than reading it on screen, or having to print out each chapter.

On the other hand, treating books as 'free' completely devalues them. We're creating a generation of consumers who expect intellectual content to be totally free - where's the long term business model for future artists/writers/musicians/film makers?
 

Dawnstorm

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It's not that rare an idea. Most classics are available for free on Project Gutenberg, or in cheap penguin editions, and they still sell.

Then there are projects like the Baen Free Library.

On the other hand, treating books as 'free' completely devalues them. We're creating a generation of consumers who expect intellectual content to be totally free - where's the long term business model for future artists/writers/musicians/film makers?

What it does is separate the book from the novel/anthology/etc.; the distribution form from the content, so there's a dual debate about distribution and the right to make money off intellectual property.

I'd argue, we're not creating this generation, it already exists. I think it's the TV-generation. (To the extent that pay-per-view is the default, this isn't true. But pay-per-view isn't the default in Austria, where I live.) What happens is that TV-stations pay for the films and finance themselves through advertisments.

Books were hard to reproduce before the photocopying machines hit the market. I suspect similar debates were around, then.

Finally, there's an ideological side to the debate. Should we make money of intellectual property. Personally, I don't care either way. I'd be happy having the content available for free and making money from the distribution rights, only. That is: off the book, not the story. But if that's too much of a hassle, I'll play along with whatever the publishers feel appropriate. I'm not - at heart - a businessman. There's this little personal hierarchy:

1. Writing
2. Being read
3. Being paid

And (1) is almost enough. (I say almost because I'm now writing a novel for the first time, and I'm sharing while I'm writing, and I noticed that people actually want to know what's going on is a motivator. A closet writer of shorts for most of my life, this was quite a surprise. Heh.)
 

Shweta

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It's one of those big questions -- will offering free content make people unwilling to pay for content at all, and thus hurt us all in the long run even if it helps sales now?

The suggestion in the music industry is that it only hurts the value-inflated stuff (hugely marketed rather than word-of-mouth popular), but who knows how it'll go for prose?
 

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My quick search showed that the book's been out for 20 years. I'm speaking from ignorance of the business here, but...what better way to generate publicity for something that has outlived its initial and follow-up marketing efforts? Seems like his royalties could only be helped in the long run. Even if it's not a successful ploy, how much of his royalties is he really giving away at this point? Write a new book and release it straight to the 'net? Probably not, IMHO.
 

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The only time I ever buy books is if I've read them and liked them. I never pay for a book I haven't read. And I know I'm not the only person like this. So I can see how this author's strategy could actually improve sales for him, because frankly I'd never heard of the guy before this thread and now would be interested to download his book (well, if I wasn't being swayed by the opinions of several people here who didn't like the book...)

However, like vox says above, I think it makes a difference also that his book was published in the normal manner first, and it's some years later that he's making it free.
 
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IceCreamEmpress

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I think that's a great choice for him to make, and more power to him!

If anyone else did that without his permission, they'd be stealing.


I find it very interesting that the authors who send out their stuff to the internet for people to "steal" and say it works out well for them also note a huge bump in sales.

The ones who say it worked out well for them are the ones for whom it worked out well. I know other people who feel quite differently about the experiment.

Either way, it's their decision to make, and nobody else's.




My husband puts his music out for free on the Internet, but when he sees that someone else has done it without his permission, he gets steamed.
 
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veinglory

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I wonder how he could have the rights to distribute it while it is simulataneously with a publisher for people to go and buy a copy from. Maybe he only contracted print rights.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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I wonder how he could have the rights to distribute it while it is simulataneously with a publisher for people to go and buy a copy from.

He doesn't. He's doing it illegally. (I couldn't click through to the link before--if it's giving you trouble, too, the story says that he's uploading his books to Internet file-sharing sites in defiance of his contract.)

Ignore my earlier comment: what he's doing right now is breaking a good-faith contract he made and has been paid for. That's unethical and inappropriate in my book.

If he wants to distribute his work freely, that's great and more power to him. However, he needs to negotiate that with the other parties who hold joint intellectual property rights with him, and who have apparently abided by the terms of the contract all parties signed.
 

preyer

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What it does is separate the book from the novel/anthology/etc.; the distribution form from the content, so there's a dual debate about distribution and the right to make money off intellectual property. ~ i don't see the debate when a publisher has bought the rights to use that intellectual property and distribute it in specified medias (basically meaning *all* media, even those that haven't been invented yet). until the terms of that contract are up, what's to argue about really?

I'd argue, we're not creating this generation, it already exists. I think it's the TV-generation. (To the extent that pay-per-view is the default, this isn't true. But pay-per-view isn't the default in Austria, where I live.) What happens is that TV-stations pay for the films and finance themselves through advertisments. ~ i'm not sure what you mean here. in american, a network (for lack of a better term) buys the rights to air a programme and recoups its money either through commercials or subscription to the channel. we certainly have pay-per-view channels, but even that option is limited to people who have satellite t.v. or cable.

Books were hard to reproduce before the photocopying machines hit the market. I suspect similar debates were around, then. ~ i'd say harder, not necessarily hard. you can go back centuries and find pulp books being published.

Finally, there's an ideological side to the debate. Should we make money of intellectual property (if that intellectual property belongs SOLELY to us, then yes, if you want to. if you've leased or sold that property, then you're due the terms of your contract. i fail to see the ideological debate when two parties enter into a good-faith contract). Personally, I don't care either way. I'd be happy having the content available for free and making money from the distribution rights, only (?? how do you collect distribution right money on something that generates no profit?). That is: off the book, not the story (??). But if that's too much of a hassle, I'll play along with whatever the publishers feel appropriate. I'm not - at heart - a businessman. There's this little personal hierarchy:

1. Writing
2. Being read
3. Being paid

And (1) is almost enough. (I say almost because I'm now writing a novel for the first time, and I'm sharing while I'm writing, and I noticed that people actually want to know what's going on is a motivator. A closet writer of shorts for most of my life, this was quite a surprise. Heh.) ~ well, good luck with your writing. :) most novelists, however, would dearly love to make an actual living from their writing and when someone comes along (who's already made his fortune) and does something like this, it just further undermines future writer's ability to earn a livelihood, imo.

imagine if every writer and musician gave away their product for free. you could argue a musician can do this effectively because that generates performance revenue (which is incredibly short-sighted in my view, but...), but what are writers supposed to do? go on a book reading tour?

so, a writer gives away their intellectual property for free. what's the incentive to write quality stories? well, you've got ego-gratification and that's about it. maybe you'll turn a buck with banner ads. an artist... living off of banner ads... might as well polish knobs in the backseat of the bus for five bucks a pop as you can't be more of a whore than that. and with no editor, what are the chances that free material is worth a nickel anyway?

'but, Preyer, what about charging for downloads?!' then you've cut the middleman out (the publisher) and are able to keep all the profits, if any. then again, you better be a damn good editor of your own material.

giving away free songs at least has the potential to make concerts sell out, and while you've got a packed house you'll clean up in merchandise and a share of gate sales. when was the last time anyone ever saw someone wearing a 'da vinci code rocks!' tee-shirt? that's why i have a hard time when someone compares the two.

'oh, but Preyer, i don't have a problem with someone reading my entire novel online for free!' then you're a fool who will never earn a living doing what you supposedly love. just like icecream said, you only ever hear about the ones it worked out for. offering entirely free content that takes the better part of a year to do effectively and you'll find a few tales of someone who sold the movie rights for a million dollars. that is, you'll find just enough exceptions to make it seem justifiable while an industry employing thousands of people collapses for no real reason.

okay, maybe a few people actually will buy a book once they've read it. why someone would do this i have no idea, seems like a ridiculous waste of money, but since it's not my money, okay. still, you can't run a business based on this business model and it certainly isn't the remostest of plans a publisher has.
 

preyer

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'Or you could use it to draw readers in by only downloading half of the book with to be continued on paper at the end.' ~ what would be the point? offer a chapter, and if the person wants to, they can pay for the download. after you spend the money on paper and ink, then the time to print all that out, you might as well have bought the hardback. if you can't get someone to buy the book after they've read an entire chapter, maybe it doesn't matter *what* kind of gimmick you've got going on, eh?
 

Shweta

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okay, maybe a few people actually will buy a book once they've read it. why someone would do this i have no idea, seems like a ridiculous waste of money, but since it's not my money, okay. still, you can't run a business based on this business model and it certainly isn't the remostest of plans a publisher has.

See, that's intuitive, but it doesn't seem to be how people are working in other areas. People seem to like owning physical copies, whether it's of novels, music, comics... it's a matter of convenience.

You might as well say libraries are a terrible terrible thing because lots of people can read your books without buying one. Again, it's a matter of convenience, accessibility...

Where I think it might really trip someone up is this: it's hard to read things online. So they don't seem as enjoyable, online, unless they're very short. So your book might not seem as cool as it does in print.

:Shrug:
I think we'l have to see how it plays out, really.
 

Soccer Mom

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If he's breaking his contract to do it then IMHO that's way out of line.

See, this is what disturbs me about this story. If he is under contract with a publisher and is giving it away that's wrong. It would be wrong for the publisher to sell copies and not pay him his royalties. That would be cheating the author out of money. And it's wrong for him to give away free copies and cut the publisher out of money for the product they've contracted for. That's wrong too.

If he only sold print rights, that would be one thing, but this is something else and it disturbs me.
 

JohnDavidPaxton

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He's not giving it away. He's not initiating an action.

In case it was missed, the author thinks his sales COME FROM the fact that it was torrented so frequently on the internet. In his speech he talks about how the internet, and the pirates, are the sole reason for his book reaching such a wide audience.

But even if he never opened this site, even if he never said "it's fine by me if you steal it" he would not have altered the course of events at all. The book would still be seeded and downloaded, it would still be on torrent applications.

I just wanted to point out yet another artist who, in yet another medium, credits theirs success entirely to p2p technology.

There is something inherently wrong with the debate if people are seeing this as an illegal action on his part. It was his material, already leaked onto the internet, and he's pointing that out to audiences that have yet to receive his work.

If he had opened up a new pirate application and created the pirate document and seeded it and sent it out? Maybe I could see it your way. But admitting that it's happening and having a different take from the publishing industry? That is not criminal.
 

Dawnstorm

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'oh, but Preyer, i don't have a problem with someone reading my entire novel online for free!' then you're a fool who will never earn a living doing what you supposedly love.

I might turn that question on its head: You wouldn't do something you supposedly love, just because nobody pays you for it?

I'm not dissing people who (a) want to make money with their writing, and (b) have faith in the traditional business models, and (c) do not have faith in alternate business models.

just like icecream said, you only ever hear about the ones it worked out for.

Yes. Goes for just about anything, though. You don't hear about all those folks who don't get published, or whose books never take off.

offering entirely free content that takes the better part of a year to do effectively and you'll find a few tales of someone who sold the movie rights for a million dollars.

But see, I'm not kidding myself into believing I'm going to be one of those success stories.

that is, you'll find just enough exceptions to make it seem justifiable while an industry employing thousands of people collapses for no real reason.

There's plenty of stuff for free online. One of the best "novels" I read last year was an unpublished manuscript. Will I buy the book if it ever gets published? In a heartbeat.

If it's all just about content, I could do without ever buying another book right now. I wouldn't be missing much.

Example: There's Project Gutenberg. I use this site a lot. But I still buy classics, even I know I could read them online, or have read them online.

The thing is: "free content" doesn't stop people from buying books. See, the world is full of fools like me. The question is - and I understand the worry even if I don't share it - are they enough to make a reliable living for authors in a similar fashion that current business models can (they're not that good at it, either, I'd say).

okay, maybe a few people actually will buy a book once they've read it. why someone would do this i have no idea, seems like a ridiculous waste of money, but since it's not my money, okay. still, you can't run a business based on this business model and it certainly isn't the remostest of plans a publisher has.

Take another look at my link to the Baen Free Library above. It's a step in the direction. It has restrictions:

Eric Flint; see link in my above post said:
The only "restrictions" we'll be placing is simply that we will encourage authors to put up the first novel or novels in an ongoing popular series, where possible. And we will ask authors who are interested not to volunteer more than, at most, five or six novels or collections at any one time.

They're not naive. They know what they're doing, and they don't seem to think it's that much of a risk. I don't know how well it worked out, but if anyone's interested that's a place to start. (My personal impression is it's going slow, but it's not going away.)

****

As for Coelho, I'll be following that. It's very interesting.
 

preyer

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You wouldn't do something you supposedly love, just because nobody pays you for it? ~ were it the way i wanted to make my living, then no. hell, no. were i musician, i'd consider it in terms of part of a marketing strategy (and i'd have to consider the cost of studio time) because there are very direct sources for recouping lost sales. sorry, dawn, this isn't introducing a gray area. i *do* write (not as often as i should) because i love, and i *do* share *that*, but, and here's the important part, i wouldn't do that for something i planned on selling. for starters, publishers want to know that they've got first rights to something they paid for.

I'm not dissing people who (a) want to make money with their writing, and (b) have faith in the traditional business models, and (c) do not have faith in alternate business models. ~ what business model is that, though? there's a difference between giving away samples, like a bar of soap you might get in the mail or even coupons, but when you give the entire product away for free, what's the plan there? that people who have read will then buy it? i'm sure a few will. i'm also sure most won't. is it hedging your bets that the next book you write will sell more based on the idea that so many more people have read the previous one? then charge them for the second book? meanwhile, a thousand other completely free books are there to be read.

it's a bad business plan if you ask me. it probably makes sense to a lot of writers. then again, writers aren't reknowned for their business skillz. if someone could explain to me how a writer is supposed to make a living by doing this, i'm willing to reconsider my position, but hopes, dreams and prayers aren't going to sway my opinion. i need to see a real plan that applies to an average mid-list author who'd otherwise be able to support himself in traditional publishing, not the exceptions. there will always be exceptions.

Yes. Goes for just about anything, though. You don't hear about all those folks who don't get published, or whose books never take off. ~ actually i do. believe me, the vast majority of people who go in for things like free publishing will be those who failed to make it as a 'real' author or who are afraid to be rejected. if you think the quality of novels on the shelves right now is bad, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

But see, I'm not kidding myself into believing I'm going to be one of those success stories. ~ this is good. how, then, do you plan on making any money from writing? a lot of people would write t.v. shows for free, too, just to have something they've done seen by millions of people. unfortunately, no one can make a living giving away their talents for free all the time. i'm sure there are a lot of non WGA members who'd not blink at screwing those on strike. some people just don't care about solidarity. still, if you've got the talent to produce sellable material and can do so to meet a deadline, you're in the top echelon of your craft and should expect compensation.

The thing is: "free content" doesn't stop people from buying books. See, the world is full of fools like me. The question is - and I understand the worry even if I don't share it - are they enough to make a reliable living for authors in a similar fashion that current business models can (they're not that good at it, either, I'd say). ~ it would stop me from buying the book unless i needed it for reference, and probably even then i wouldn't if i still had it on the computer. i just don't understand this mentality: to me it's like paying for an airline ticket after i've landed and based on if i enjoyed my ride. having it on my bookshelf collecting dust doesn't make much sense.

let me ask you this: if a 'novel' has been downloaded a million times, is that incentive to have that published? sure, that's a possibility. if it's been downloaded a thousand times, is that incentive? uh, no. and do you read a library book then go out and buy it? if you do, you're in the small minority. not much difference with online books, is there? until i see a free novel (NOT done by an already famous author) that's been published and hear tales of how *that* worked out in a positive way, i can't support this method. realistically, if it's publishable, sending it to publishers would be cutting to the chase: i have to wonder if all those 'free' copies floating around out there will negatively impact sales.

i aver that free content absolutely does kill book sales just like it kills CD sales. if ford were to give me a free car, and if i really liked it i might go to a ford dealership the next time i was in the market for a new car. however, if ford says it won't give me another free car but chevy says it will, guess what i'll be driving. even if ford gave me another free car, how is ford making money?

know how many word processing programmes i've bought in my life? zero. because i can get programmes for free off the net. they may not be as good, not have all the bells and whistles, but they're free. i say free novels will even hurt much better novels published traditionally.

publishers don't exist because you bought the book and loved it. they exist because you bought the book. if you could return books you bought just because you didn't like it once you were done, publishers would be out of business, agreed? i'd say there are 'fools' that would buy the book after they decided they needed to own it for some reason, but the simple fact of the matter is there aren't enough to sustain the industry. and even if a publisher thinks there are enough, then he's taking a huge gamble.

and he'll probably lose miserably. because he's not selling sunshine, he's selling the *promise* of sunshine.

those aren't 'restrictions' really. gee, you'll allow me post the first several novels of a popular series? thanks! wow, what a deal. what do you mean i can ONLY post a mere five or six collection at a time!

okay, i'm being a bit sarcastic here. and i agree, these people aren't naive (and there's NO risk to them). the naive people are the ones risking giving away sellable product for free without the slightest thought about the long-term impact it would have not only on their own submitted story, but future stories and the industry as a whole (see, i'm coming back to that solidarity thing, but knowing a lot of people just don't care). (besides, like i said, most of this stuff probably isn't really that sellable, at least in the shape it's in without having the benefit of being seen by agents or editors. do these sites scan entries for quality? what guarantee do you have as a reader that 90% of this stuff just isn't pure junk?)

again, i don't think it's a valid business plan to expect people to pay for something that's free, especially when that free material probably isn't on average as high a quality as it would be had it gone through professionals' hands. the first thing to suffer will be any kind of professional editing standard. some will do their best (which still won't be good enough in the real world), some will stand out (a few, definitely not a high percentage), but most will likely be as if someone took a shit on the internet and expect you to agree with their malformed writing principles (unless someone somewhere is reviewing entries for *some* kind of quality, and even then that's not to say these 'editors' know what they're doing).

remember, you usually get what you pay for.

current business models for traditional publishers aren't that good? what makes you think it's not? it's a volume business where a lot of people have to be paid along the way based on something that in a lot of ways has a ton of subjectivity tossed into a fickle market's mix. all things considered, i find it amazing any publishing house is able to survive at all, especially when you've got millions of rejects doing everything they can to undermine the industry for little or no profit (and yet certainly have dreams of being recognized by and picked up by a big publisher) and most assuredly many, many of them having no real professional standards of their own. i'd venture to say they have a pretty good business plan tempered by hundreds of years of culmative experience.

kinda beats out the lone novelist doing his own version of editing who'd never get a contract through a real publisher, eh?

i'll say it: it's stuff like this that appeals to frauds, wanna-be's, rejects and hobbyists. in other words, people who couldn't cut it (or were afraid to try) in real life. a professional novelist who's livelihood depends on people actually buying their books is probably wondering if it's too late to go back to college. can you imagine a pro saying, 'my, gawd, finally i get to give away my novels for free!' i can't, anymore than i imagine a free novel writer thinking to themselves, 'gee, i wonder if i can get insurance through the writer's guild?'
 

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See, the only data I'm aware of (Baen Free Library, Cory Doctorow, Charles Stross' "Accelerando") suggests that this sort of thing increases sales. So, regardless of whether it seems counter-intuitive, the onus is on you to provide solid counter-examples - and examples from the book publishing industry, not from the music industry, where the data is very murky. Otherwise, simply 'averring' stuff is just noise.
 
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