Perspective on annoying people

[III]

It's a little slow in the Christian forum today, so I figured I'd share this.

We've been studying heaven and the new earth in the College Sunday School class lately and it got me to thinking, since we retain our identity and personalities in our new bodies (I believe), even though there won't be any sin nature, will people still annoy us? There are some great, Godly Christians who just plain bug me, usually because they talk way too much. So I was thinking about spending eternity in a community with these people.

Skip ahead a few days. I was in the kitchen chowing down on a bag of Salt & Vinegar Chips, savoring the powerful tangy flavor. My daughter walked in and I told her to try one, knowing full well she'd hate it and spit it out (cuz that's just the kind of dad I am). Naturally she hated it and it made me reflect on how much I hated vinegar as a child, but now it has so many memories tied in with it (the smell of vinegar fries at the beach, etc.) that I've learned to love them.

The connection - maybe the people whom we find the most distasteful will be the ones we appreciate the most in the long run. It's a simplistic thought, but I found it encouraging.

You guys ever ponder this?

[callalily61]

III, you are, as always, way too deep for me.

The only thing I feel safe pondering about me and heaven is: once I get up off my face after falling at Jesus' feet (I figure I'll be a good millennium or three in that position), I'll spend another few millennia wondering how I was so full of me-me-me that I had so much trouble seeing Jesus in people who annoyed me down here. And apologizing.

[III]

Then spend the next 1,000 years hanging out with Denver I'm sure.

[althrasher]

Generally speaking, I don't wonder that much about heaven. Partly because I'm not entirely sure if I believe in it.

But if heaven is a totally God-centered existence, and it's total peace in Him(Her), I would think that He's(She's) got it covered.

As far as appreciating people later goes...that just reminds me that I'm learning (exponentially each day!) that, for me, the line between love and hate is very thin (not just romantically.) I think I'm not actually responding to your post...sorry, I'll shut up now.

[callalily61]

Then spend the next 1,000 years hanging out with Denver I'm sure.

:e2headban Think he can work a flute into a Big Band arrangement?

It's Heaven, right? Anything's possible.

[Gravity]

Once I was grousing to my wife about a particular Christian website I used to frequent (for a short while, anyway). I was going on and on about how a handful of people there seemed to have assumed the mantle as unofficial Keepers of the True Way, and woe betide anyone like me who had a different idea (not unlike a certain "publisher's" board :::snerk:::).

After my rant was over, my sweet wife says me, "Think about this, hotshot. God might have us living next to one of those Pharisees for a thousand years or so, just to knock off your own rough edges."

"Nahh," says I. "He wouldn't do that."

But then ... maybe he would. Ghastly thought!

[JoNightshade]

I don't know if we'll be all telepathic or whatever in heaven, but 1 Cor. 13 says "then we will see clearly." I think when we get to heaven, we'll have a much better understanding of God's purposes (we'd BETTER, or he has some 'splainin' to do), and I think we'll have a much better understanding of each other. I think most of our misunderstandings and annoyances regarding other people are due to the little tunnel we view life through - "SELF." It's hard to understand where other people are coming from or why they act the way they do because we're only coming from OUR limited experience.

I always think of my friend who miscarried a couple of years ago. A few months after it happened she remarked that she had been a total bitch for the week or two afterwards (fortunately I was out of the country, whew) to everyone she came into contact with. She practically bit people's heads off at the grocery store, random people she didn't even know. Now when someone is a jerk to her, she realizes that maybe there's something in that person's life she has no way of knowing about.

Maybe in heaven we'll realize that annoying dude who never knew when to let an issue drop was really desperate to get attention because his parents never noticed him. Or maybe that woman who always asks "So, when are YOU going to have kids?" always felt inferior to her sister who had twelve children. Or whatever.

In heaven, I think we'll all have a little regret that we didn't have more compassion or understanding for others here on earth.

[Gravity]

Yowza. You said a mouthful, Jo.

[JoNightshade]

I'm compelled to spew. It's a blessing... and a curse. ;)

[rugcat]

That's a fascinating question. One can surely be redeemed from sin, but can one recover be from being terminally annoying?

The people I find most annoying are the ones who are totally egocentric. They have no clue how their actions might affect other people, nor do they care, it seems. This ranges from the simplistic (those who drive through a quiet neighbor hood at two AM with the car stereo loud enough to rattle windows of the houses they pass) to the subtle. (Those who crush children's dreams without even realizing what they're doing) Is utter thoughtlessness actually a form of sin?

Maybe before they enter the Kingdom Of Heaven God will give the gift of self realization to these people, something which they seem to be incapable of here on earth.

Of course, not being a Christian or believing in heaven, you might want to take my opinions with a grain of salt. But really, if you had to spend eternity next to some of these people, it could hardly be called heaven. God may have infinite compassion, but I certainly don't.

[L.Jones]

In heaven, I think we'll all have a little regret that we didn't have more compassion or understanding for others here on earth.


In the book The World According to Mister Rogers it is reported that Mr. R's favorite quote (and I'm paraphrasing as I have the audio book and can't run get it to look up) was: There isn't anybody we couldn't learn to love, if we only knew their story.

In heaven, we will know their stories

and they will know ours

(and it shames me to think how many times my story will be I was just too busy or self-absorbed, or hurting over something superficial or worried over things that didn't matter in the long run to pay attention to the needs of others)

annie jones - The Barefoot Believers - mar 08

[Judg]

It's actually kind of fun right here on earth trying to figure out what God sees in some people. I have often prayed that he let me see somebody with his eyes: the potential he created them with, what he would do with them or is doing with them to get them there... Not that I am claiming God lets me in on his plans for other people, but just looking for that kind of thing really helps.

"God loves me and has a plan for my life" flips around to "God loves her and has a plan for her life". Trying to see it is a fun exercise.

And I like what Jo says too. I know I have been judged as being cold when really I was just exhausted, there have been times when I lost it in public (well once, anyway) but I had been going through hell for several years and one additional source of stress was just too much. (If the people who thought I was cold had seen me then, they would have been obliged to revise their opinion...) So often you don't even know what your own children are going through.

I have also discovered that when you give people the benefit of the doubt, you will be right the vast majority of the time. It's also much easier on your own stress levels. Just a little while ago, we were stressing out because our son wasn't answering our urgent phone calls and emails. Every negative scenario possible was running through our heads. So we decided to look for a positive scenario instead, if only to prevent ulcers. You guessed it, the positive scenario was dead on. He was off on a weekend retreat in the mountains with no cell phone coverage or Internet access.

OK, I'm getting off-topic, so I'll stop. Appreciate you guys, even if I don't often post in here.

[JoNightshade]

In the book The World According to Mister Rogers it is reported that Mr. R's favorite quote (and I'm paraphrasing as I have the audio book and can't run get it to look up) was: There isn't anybody we couldn't learn to love, if we only knew their story.

I will have to get that book. I bought Life's Journeys According to Mr. Rogers (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GRU1OW/ref=pd_cp_b_1_img?pf_rd_p=317711001&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000JGWDQE&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=19A2K821A5WEM90YK7KP), and when I finished reading it I went out and bought about 8 copies to give to everyone special to me. Mr. Rogers really GOT how God wants us to love other people (and ourselves!). I loved his program as a kid, but I never realized until I read that book what a truly wonderful, blessed individual he was.

[L.Jones]

I will have to get that book. I bought Life's Journeys According to Mr. Rogers (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GRU1OW/ref=pd_cp_b_1_img?pf_rd_p=317711001&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000JGWDQE&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=19A2K821A5WEM90YK7KP), and when I finished reading it I went out and bought about 8 copies to give to everyone special to me. Mr. Rogers really GOT how God wants us to love other people (and ourselves!). I loved his program as a kid, but I never realized until I read that book what a truly wonderful, blessed individual he was.

Life's Journeys and The World According To are the best of the bunch - there is another one or two but they did not have the same resonance to me.
I keep them in my car to listen to from time to time, they always shape the way I look at the world.

To tie into the subject line - it is part of my calling as a writer to try to make people think differently about people, by telling their stories (as a former social worker my mission was to be a voice for the voiceless, I carried this into writing by writing about Christians, women who do not fit the mass media model and the elderly among others).

So, just curious, what effect do those annoying people have on you as a writer? Do they help you make better characters? Do they make you want to write things to tell their story or to use them as a warning? Thoughts?

annie jones - The Barefoot Believers, Mar 08

[KTC]

My minister once said something along the lines of, "The dog that bites you is the one you will get the most joy out of once you gain his trust. He will be the one you enjoy petting the most." I don't know if this relates or not...and of course I am so paraphrasing. I do know that it would be annoying to get bitten by a dog...but it would be so cool to turn that dog around into a friend and companion.

[Roger J Carlson]

I will have to get that book. I bought Life's Journeys According to Mr. Rogers (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GRU1OW/ref=pd_cp_b_1_img?pf_rd_p=317711001&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000JGWDQE&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=19A2K821A5WEM90YK7KP), and when I finished reading it I went out and bought about 8 copies to give to everyone special to me. Mr. Rogers really GOT how God wants us to love other people (and ourselves!). I loved his program as a kid, but I never realized until I read that book what a truly wonderful, blessed individual he was.Slightly off topic, but perhaps not.

A few years ago, Allen Fundt Jr. revived the old Candid Camera show. This version had a slightly harder edge, and I thought the pranks were a little meaner.

They had a bit at a TV Critics convention where critic were supposed to preview the next season's shows in their hotel rooms. They gave these critics the absolute worst rooms imaginable: phones didn't work, TV's were tiny, that sort of thing. Then they filmed the reactions.

It turned out that Fred Rogers was at that hotel for a completely unrelated reason, and they decided to pull it on him too. His room was a disaster. But the coolest thing about it was Fred was as gracious and accomodating as you would imagine Mr. Rogers to be. He took everything they threw at him will kindness and grace. Fred Rogers WAS Mr. Rogers.

In a world where too many prominent Christians prove to have feet of clay, it was refreshing to see a Christian who actually lived his faith.

[Roger J Carlson]

Annoyance is always the result of sin on somebody's part. Either you don't love them enough to overlook the annoying behavior, or they don't love you enough to stop that behavior. Either way, lack of love is sin.

When all the sin is washed away, when we all love each other as God intended us to, how will we become annoyed with others? After all, love is patient and kind... it endures all things.

[III]

Wow, I really love the posts on this thread and I have to admit I'm reading them at just the right time. The natural evolution of the topic would be from "empathizing and loving those who annoy you" to "loving your enemies". I can't think of any greater enemy than this (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1992244#post1992244). (No, not Haskins, the WBC). Those who profane the body of Christ which is so precious to me by spreading hatred. Those who twist the message of love and forgiveness and life. Those are the greatest enemy.

In the scriptures, we see Christ's utter distain for the Pharisees who used their religious authority to keep people from God. We see Paul's vitrol for the "dogs" who were preaching circumcision as a neccessary part of salvation, saying he wishes they would go all the way and emasculate themselves.

I think love for circumstantial enemies is a clear admonishment, much like we've discussed in this thread. But what about love for members of the WBC? Are they beyond redemption? I certainly feel like Paul did about those who were corrupting the gospel - I wish they would just drop dead.

But perhaps I'm being short-sighted and reactionary. In some sense it's a moot point because I'll likely never come into contact with them, but on the other hand I have come into contact with similar people and found that, for the most part, they're just uneducated on the real meaning of the gospel. They were raised a certain way and fed a steady diet of preaching and nobody ever took them aside and showed them the truth of scripture.

It's a tough one.

And I think it's great that our non-Christian friends are sharing their perspective as well. This forum is richer for the diversity of wisdom.

[cray]

i thought for sure this thread was going to be about me.
wheeeu.

anyway, i'm just delurking to laud jay's last post.....
very nice, honest as ever and well said.
thanks.

[III]

i thought for sure this thread was going to be about me.
wheeeu.

anyway, i'm just delurking to laud jay's last post.....
very nice, honest as ever and well said.
thanks.

And yet somehow I still feel compelled to say mean things to you via rep, even when you're nice to me in public. Ah, this symbiotic relationship we have, battery . . .

[cray]

one evening an old man told his grandson about a battle that goes on
inside people. he said "my son the battle is between 2 wolves -

"one wolf is evil; it is known thru anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed,
arrogance, self-pity guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride,
superiority, and ego.

"the other wolf is good and it is known thru joy, peace, love, serenity,
humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and
faith".

the grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather,
"which wolf wins?

the old man simply replied "the one you feed"

[JoNightshade]

Oh, Cray, nice story.

I always remember the question asked in East of Eden:

Which is more virtuous in God's eyes - the man who naturally takes pleasure in doing good, and does it because he enjoys it... or the man who does not enjoy doing good, but struggles to do it anyway?

(Incidentally, my husband once told me he fell in love with me because I am the second man. ;) )

[BrookieCookie777]

I love the wolf story - that is awesome, awesome, awesome - did I mention awesome -stuff! I also like the Eden line Jo. All wonderful thoughts.