In and out, in and out.

Nakhlasmoke · Jan 15, 2008

I write short, too short. I've come to accept that I'm more of a put-er in-er than a take-er out-er.

I'm insanely jealous of those people who produce 250 k word first drafts. Mine always come up underfed and rather pathetic looking in comparison.

Today while I was doing the first pass through my (50 k) draft, I realised that there's so much of the story in my head, that i actually don't know what to add in, what's missing. What I need is to be able to see my novel for the first time, with a blank mind - hardly likely, is it?

So, if you write short, what are your tips and tricks for fleshing out the novel and bringing it in line with the vision in your head?

Lifelongdagger · Jan 15, 2008

Put it in a drawer for as long as you can manage - preferably a couple of months, then look at it with eyes afresh . . .

Kind regards,

Ian

Charlie Horse · Jan 15, 2008

I don't write short but here are my thoughts:

When you're working on your first draft let everything in your head pour out. Allow your writing to suck. Use purple prose. Be redundant. Ramble for pages on end. This way when you revise, everything will be there. For me it seems a hell of a lot easier to shred and dissect than to add to taste.

Disclaimer: This may not work for everybody.

Calla Lily · Jan 15, 2008

I just had to add 9K to my mystery to get it up to 80K.

My agent suggested several spots where I might actually choose to describe the restaurant my characters are sitting in, what someone might be wearing, since it's assumed they're not naked, etc.

Can you guess my pitfall is lack of description?

Then I copied the "why wouldn't this character do 'X' in this scene" comments my wonderful betas gave me, which I saved, and printed them out in a Word doc (3 pages total).

I then reread from the beginning, sometimes adding description or changing a response--and thus increasing a scene's tension as well as lengthening it. I also made notes to myself like [description here] and [Sounds! Smells!] and yellow-highlighted them for later.

Last, I pulled in a minor subplot I'd planned for the next book. (I live in hope that a publisher will buy this book and want it as a series.)

Final word count: 80,210. Days to write, revise, edit, revise, etc: 10. (I admit I took 2 days off because my brain was threatening to explode.)

You can do it, too!

Red-Green · Jan 15, 2008

I used to be a "short" writer, but I turned myself into a "long" writer. I simply disciplined myself to write everything the first time around, because I was tired of having parts of my story in my head instead of on paper. The trick was that I didn't give myself permission to abbreviate or short cut. Every scene I imagined, I forced myself to write it out completely. 15 years later, I do it by habit, and then go back and cut the unnecessary stuff.

At some point, perhaps you've just given yourself permission to make short cuts. Just a thought.

Lifelongdagger · Jan 15, 2008

Some good points, also, if you are short, throw in a few more conflicts for your MC to resolve, introduce a new character, or perhaps slot in a sub-plot or two . . .

Nakhlasmoke · Jan 15, 2008

Wow thanks guys. Some great stuff - descriptions are a place I fall down, so I really need to look at that too.

Although frankly, I think Red may have hit the nail on the head right here:

Redzilla said:
...

At some point, perhaps you've just given yourself permission to make short cuts. Just a thought.

Yeah. Good point.

Straka · Jan 15, 2008

I thought this thread was a reference to Clockwork Orange

But seriously put it down for a while. I am the opposite where I write too much. Just today I was struck with inspiration about how to tighten and shorten a 150K WIP I've been working on for 8 years. Hate to say it but some things just take time.

joetrain · Jan 15, 2008

great suggestions. i'm dealing with the same problem on a new wip. writing short did great for short stories. the transition to planning 80K+ is difficult. a couple things that weren't mentioned:

i'm getting a lot of help from a beta. if you can get someone to take a committed interest and point out where he/she wants more detail or humor or sadness, etc., it helps.

and besides trying to bone up on the parts you're lacking in (description), also push those parts of your voice that are unique and engaging. is your narrator flippant, funny, crazy or given to hyperbole? then let him be as much so as he pleases. let him go overboard, then trim to satisfaction.

these are things i've personally been keeping in mind. hope they help.

anyway, great thread.

donut · Jan 15, 2008

I'm another short writer. My trick is to write in layers: first pass, I just get down the barest bones of the plot, so I know exactly what happens. Second draft, I write every necessary scene, skipping nothing, until the book could be read by a stranger and make sense (even if it's still really crappy). Then I go through scene by scene, expanding wherever needed -- for clarity, or adding descriptive passages, developing characters more fully. Finally, I work on a sentence by sentence level, making the language beautiful.

At that point, I start thinking if there's anything I've missed: are there themes I wanted to convey that didn't come out clearly? Subplots that would add to the scope of the novel? New scenes that would give greater insight into character development? Details that would ground the story in a sense of place?

Once I've done all that, I generally have a normal, novel-length book, that's ready to be torn apart by readers and critique groups.

Charlie Horse · Jan 15, 2008

Remember, writing a novel isn't a race.

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 15, 2008

I always write short. I had to add 20k to the MS. I'm currently subbing and my current WIP, it's sequel, is going to come in about that short, or shorter, too.

My advice, is to just keeping editing the hell out of it. Pay close attention to where you can add details, where an idea needs to be compounded. See if you missed any scenes the first time through that need to be added to give the reader either more information or a clue into a character's motives.

While rereading and editing I had several "epiphanies" (for lack of a better word) on what needed to be added and created several subplots that I realized needed to be there but never occured to me the first time through.

JustGo · Jan 15, 2008

I write short, too, and I'm working to remedy that at the moment - check my sig, I'm trying to add 15k to the first draft. Recently, it's been a roaring success, and I've already added almost exactly 10,000 words - even though I'm only a third of the way through the rewrite. Most of this has been done in the past two weeks. Before that, though, I spent six months muddling about in confusion and getting nothing accomplished.

My recommendation to avoid the traps I fell into:
1. Put the manuscript aside for six weeks.
2. Reread it from start to finish, taking note of anything that can be expanded and any errors you can't possibly live with.
3. Write the new scenes you came up with.
4. Rewrite the whole manuscript, editing and expanding simultaneously. You'll be amazed how many opportunities you find you've missed when you break it all down word-by-word.
Note: If you still don't have enough, you can always ask your betas for ideas.

Good luck!

ShebaJones · Jan 15, 2008

I always write way too short, and it's become a problem. Should I add this in, or would it be unnecessary inflation? Am I just padding?

I'm going to try a bloated monster of a first draft and hope it's easier to shave words and pare scenes than it is to try to tack them on.

CaroGirl · Jan 15, 2008

I write short. I've come to the conclusion that it has to do with lack of self-confidence in my work. I figure, who wants to read more of this drivel?

The best thing I did was give the first draft to a beta who's only criticism was that she wanted more. I immediately got ideas for 3 more scenes that had been in the back of my mind. Now I'll get them in there and see if they work to advance the plot and further flesh out my characters.

NicoleMD · Jan 15, 2008

Charlie Horse said:
Remember, writing a novel isn't a race.

Sometimes it is. I have to beat my attention span. If I don't get my ideas down in a quick and dirty draft, I'll lose interest. But I love to revise, and will do it all day long if you let me.

ETA: Also look for pacing issues. If there's anywhere that just whizzes by, lasso that scene and slow that doggie down.

Nicole

katiemac · Jan 15, 2008

Scanning for areas to add detail is a good trick - I especially never seem to describe settings the first time around. ("He sat on the couch." Oh, there's a couch in the kitchen? Hmm....)

Also, you may also want to scan your scenes and make sure you're showing, and not telling, where necessary. Telling will almost always make you come up short.

Prawn · Jan 15, 2008

I write a thousand words a day until I hit my goal, which is usually 90K. I can fix pacing and things like that later, but I the book isn't done until that goal is reached.

FennelGiraffe · Jan 15, 2008

Would it help to think of that 50K as a detailed outline? You've worked out what happens in the story (Yay!) and now you're ready to start writing the first draft. (OK, so that's a psychological trick, but if it works...)

I guess the first thing I would do is try to see whether the problem is at story level:

Are you sure you wrote short? Is there any chance you wrote it appropriately, but it just isn't quite a commercial-length idea? If so, can you add subplot(s) to enhance the story while increasing wordcount?
Does anything happen off-screen that really deserves a whole scene of its own? Some writers do this with difficult or painful incidents.

Beyond that, I would look at things like:

Do your beta readers understand the reasons for the chars' actions? Do they understand why certain events happen they way that they do?
Think cause-and-effect, both on the micro and the macro level. Does every event have at least one cause and at least one consequence? Make sure those causes and consequences are in the text, not just in your head.
Look for things you've told that can be shown instead.
Does your POV char have emotion, attitude? Does he have internal reactions to the events that are happening externally?
How many senses does your POV char use to experience his environment? Sight you've probably got covered, but does he ever hear anything besides another char's dialog? Does he notice scents and flavors? What about touch--does he notice whether things are hot or cold, rough or smooth, hard or soft?
Does your dialog tend to be talking heads on a white screen? While you certainly don't want to overload dialog with description, it's a good idea to let the reader know that your chars have bodies attached to their heads. Those bodies should be in a specific setting, too, and should interact with that setting occasionally.

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 15, 2008

Prawn said:
I write a thousand words a day until I hit my goal, which is usually 90K. I can fix pacing and things like that later, but I the book isn't done until that goal is reached.

So, even if you've hit the climax and resolved all the loose ends long ago, you keep on writing until you hit 90k?

icerose · Jan 15, 2008

I'm sure there are places you can flesh out, scenes you glossed over that need more attention, and the biggest thing to add is subplots. Whenever I write short I find it's because I shot straight through the story. There were no side events, no underlying events, no upper events. Just main events. There's never just one stream of events going on. Find a way to weave these others into your story and enhance it.

Good luck, I'd much rather cut than add so I feel your pain.

Mr Flibble · Jan 15, 2008

I'm insanely jealous of those people who produce 250 k word first drafts. Mine always come up underfed and rather pathetic looking in comparison.

Can we swap? Because let's face it the 225k MS I've got ain't gonna sell for a first timer. Not unless I cut by 70K or so ( *sob*). I'm living through hell trying to decide what to cut! I'll do it though, oh yes, it's gonna be lean and mean!

*does wrestler face*

MMWyrm · Jan 15, 2008

I'm another short writer.... er... I mean I write short. My first drafts are usually around 55-60k. I don't think there is anything wrong with writing short.

My trick is to write in layers: first pass, I just get down the barest bones of the plot, so I know exactly what happens. Second draft, I write every necessary scene, skipping nothing, until the book could be read by a stranger and make sense (even if it's still really crappy). Then I go through scene by scene, expanding wherever needed -- for clarity, or adding descriptive passages, developing characters more fully. Finally, I work on a sentence by sentence level, making the language beautiful.

I do it a lot like donut.

Nakhlasmoke · Jan 15, 2008

Well, after last night's power failure, I finally got to read through these responses. Thanks guys.

The novel has been sitting for almost a month and a half, and I really don't want to leave it longer than that, otherwise I'll never get back on it.

I sat in a candle-lit house last night and talked with the dh, who is the only person who has read it all the way through, and he told me that there's plenty of scenes I'm skipping - I make a narrative leap that makes sense to me, because I know all the details, but I'm holding out on my reader. Some really good ideas came out of that little chat and I'm looking forward to getting back into the editing groove.

My current WiP, I swear that I'm going to put in every inane detail in that first draft, and train myself out of taking short cuts.

SageFury · Jan 15, 2008

Nakhlasmoke said:
I write short, too short. I've come to accept that I'm more of a put-er in-er than a take-er out-er.

I'm insanely jealous of those people who produce 250 k word first drafts. Mine always come up underfed and rather pathetic looking in comparison.

Today while I was doing the first pass through my (50 k) draft, I realised that there's so much of the story in my head, that i actually don't know what to add in, what's missing. What I need is to be able to see my novel for the first time, with a blank mind - hardly likely, is it?

So, if you write short, what are your tips and tricks for fleshing out the novel and bringing it in line with the vision in your head?

I don't write short but my suggestion would be to re look into your story for ideas. sounds funny how I sound but I'm referring to:

Destinations, personal thoughts of the characters, the plot itself (twists in the story line), and even places they travel to an through.

A storyline consists of everything pulled in front of the characters from start to finish and that includes some forms of detail on all fronts.

In and out, in and out.

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