Who is Dead Dead?

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 3, 2008

I have a question for all the current geeks (I'm a past geek, with moments of geekitude still).

What Superheroes from the Golden Age and Silver Age are now dead? I haven't paid attention to DC's whatever it was called a decade ago, their series where they disrupted the whole DC Universe. And more recently Marvel went through some sort of shakeup, too.

From the DC Universe, I think people like The Flash (Jay Garrick died before my time and I believe Barry Allen, who was the Flash I knew is now dead, right?), The Green Lantern (again, Alan Scott was before my time, but isn't Hal Jordon dead or something?), and Superman died, but somehow came back?

And from Marvel Hawkeye died, correct? And the Red Skull. Now Captain America (Steve Rogers is dead dead).

Who else is dead from those days?

Axler · Jan 3, 2008

With Barry Allen, it's hard to tell. As far as I know, Jay Garrick is still runnin' around with the JSA.

As for Hal Jordan--no, he's not dead. Turns out he never was.

Which makes the vehement insistence of former GL editor Kevin Dooley (under whose watch Hal went crazy, became Parallax and then died) that Hal was not just thoroughly dead but most sincerely dead and would absolutely never ever return seem even more pathetically asinine now than it did years ago.

A super hero character is only as dead as the editor who killed him retains his position.

Keep that in mind when before you attend the wake of Steve Rogers.

ddgryphon · Jan 3, 2008

As someone once said, "don't count anyone dead unless you've seen the body, and then, don't bet on it."

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 3, 2008

Then who is pretending to be dead?

Richard White · Jan 3, 2008

Mind you all these are off the top of my head. Things may have changed over the past few years.

Marvel -

Adam Warlock died (but was resurrected almost 15 years later which was a true waste of a heroic death.)
Jean Grey (Marvel Girl) died, but it turned out it wasn't really her
Captain Mar-Vell is still dead (as far as I know)
Gwen Stacy (Spiderman's girlfriend killed by the Green Goblin) is still dead.
The Green Goblin (Norman Osborne) is dead (a rare case of a great villian staying dead)
Thunderbird (X-men) died
Mimic (X-men) died
Jocasta (Avengers) is dead, but since she was an android does that really count?
The Black Knight (Avengers) died but was replaced by a relative later.
The Swordsman (Avengers) and Mantis (Avengers) died but their spirits still had contact with the other Avengers until the end of that particular arc.
Nighthawk (Defenders) died.

DC
Supergirl (Kara) died (but was resurrected years later)
Flash (Barry Allen) died and was replaced by Wally West (Kid Flash)
Batwoman and the original Batgirl (Not Barbara Gordon) are dead (IIRC)
The original Crimson Avenger died (has been replaced)
Soloman Grundy's dead but he doesn't seem to remember he's dead
Ferro Lad (Legion of Super-Heroes) died, but it seems he's been replaced 35 years later with a relative.
Jericho (Teen Titans) died
Terra (Teen Titans) died

I'm sure there were more characters who've bitten the bucket but these are the one's I can think of right now.

Stormhawk · Jan 3, 2008

Uncle Ben is dead! (Everyone always forgets him...)

Bucky should have stayed dead.

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 4, 2008

Wait. Bucky did stay dead. When did they bring him back?

Axler · Jan 4, 2008

Shadow_Ferret said:
Wait. Bucky did stay dead. When did they bring him back?

Back in 06, at the shocking! conclusion of the convoluted "Winter Soldier" storyline.

In it, Bucky has been living in the Soviet Union and...

Oh, it's just too ridiculous to describe.

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 4, 2008

Oh, that's just silly. Was he like 78 years old?

nighttimer · Jan 6, 2008

Shh...don't tell Shadow_Ferret that Jason Todd, the second Robin, who was beaten to death by the Joker, is also back from the dead.

Oh, and don't forget to mention how Dr. Light raped the Elongated Man's wife. This is of course, before she was murdered by the Atom's crazed girlfriend.

The only thing that can permanently kill a comic book character is low sales. Just ask anyone from the Milestone, Valiant, or Impact Comics universe.

:Shrug:

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 7, 2008

nighttimer said:
Shh...don't tell Shadow_Ferret that Jason Todd, the second Robin, who was beaten to death by the Joker, is also back from the dead.

Wow. I am out of touch. When did Dick Grayson stop being Robin?

I need to find a book about the entire history of comics that describes everything that's happened to every character since the beginning of time.

It would probably have to be a multi-volume set the size of the Encyclopedia Britanica.

Axler · Jan 7, 2008

Good God, Dick stopped being Robin and became Nightwing like in...1983 or thereabouts. There have been two Robins since him--three, if you count Carrie Kelly from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 7, 2008

1983. Yeah, I think I stopped being a regular as the 70s were ending. I only picked up the occassional comic after that and really only started having my interest rekindled very recently. Mostly Captain America's death brought that about. I wanted to see what other characters they messed up.

DarkKnightJRK · Jan 7, 2008

Shadow_Ferret said:
From the DC Universe, I think people like The Flash (Jay Garrick died before my time and I believe Barry Allen, who was the Flash I knew is now dead, right?), The Green Lantern (again, Alan Scott was before my time, but isn't Hal Jordon dead or something?), and Superman died, but somehow came back?

Flash: Garrick died, came back around the nineties (along with most of the other JSA members), Barry died in Crisis on Infinate Earths, and Kid Flash, Wally West, took the mantle. Wally went away during the Infinate Crisis storyline and Bart Allen, Barry's great-grandson from the future, took the mantle before dying, and now Wally's back in the spandex.

Green Lantern: Hal had a complicated history. After his city was destroyed, he snapped and killed most of the Green Lanterns and became a mad being known as Parallax. Hal briefly snapped out of it and sacrificed himself in an event known as The Last Light (or something like that). Because of this, he became the superhero The Spectre until recently in Green Lantern: Rebirth, where it was found out that Parallax was actually a yellow fear demon, Hal came back for some reason (don't really remember because aforementioned yellow fear demon twist really pissed me off) and there you go.

Superman: Died in this event called, "The Death of Superman." He faced off against a monster called Doomsday, that was basically stronger then him. Superman and Doomsday basically beat each other to death. During this time, four different people tried to fill in the role. Two were ultimately good, Steel and Superboy. One was evil, Cyborg Superman. The other ressurected Superman, the Erradicator.

And from Marvel Hawkeye died, correct? And the Red Skull. Now Captain America (Steve Rogers is dead dead).

Hawkeye died in an event called "Avengers Disassembled" but came back in an event called "House of M." He's now in New Avengers as a ninja called Ronin because he doesn't want the public to know he's alive.

Stormhawk said:
Uncle Ben is dead! (Everyone always forgets him...)

He was around recently in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, but that turned out to be a Ben from an alternate reality.

Shadow_Ferret said:
Oh, that's just silly. Was he like 78 years old?

If I remember correctly, they found him in the 80s near the end of the USSR. Plus the techno-advances probably prolongened his aging process.

Axler said:
Good God, Dick stopped being Robin and became Nightwing like in...1983 or thereabouts. There have been two Robins since him--three, if you count Carrie Kelly from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

Four if you count the short-lived Stephanie Brown stint.

Sai · Jan 7, 2008

I saw this, and immediately thought of this thread:

The only comic book figures who stay dead are the creators, usually after decades of poverty.

DarkKnightJRK · Jan 7, 2008

Sai said:
I saw this, and immediately thought of this thread:

The only comic book figures who stay dead are the creators, usually after decades of poverty.

http://www.thebatsquad.net/finger.htm

*raises the finger*

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 9, 2008

Sai said:
I saw this, and immediately thought of this thread:

The only comic book figures who stay dead are the creators, usually after decades of poverty.

I can't read that. It asks if I'm at least 14 years old and says it has adult content. I'd rather not alert the IT gestapo here at work.

Sai · Jan 9, 2008

It doesn't have any adult content, I promise, just a Mad Magazine parody of all the deaths in superhero comics. The warning is just Livejournal covering their ass. If you have a livejournal account and you're age in your profile is over 18, you won't get asked everytime you open something on a LJ sight.

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 13, 2008

Sai said:
I saw this, and immediately thought of this thread:

The only comic book figures who stay dead are the creators, usually after decades of poverty.

Your title threw me off. I was expecting the blog to be on that, but his part on creators staying dead was simply a throw-away line. I would really have liked to have read something about how badly treated the creators of some of the top selling characters were. Oh, well. Maybe I'll have to write one.

DarkKnightJRK said:
http://www.thebatsquad.net/finger.htm

*raises the finger*

"Sadly, Mr. Finger died in 1974 at the age of 60, never seeing the height of Batman's popularity."

I'd argue that he did live to see the height of Batman's popularity -- the 60s. Batman was at his height during the silver age with appearances in numerous titles. With a popular television show. With a popular Saturday Morning Cartoon or two. And a movie.

Axler · Jan 13, 2008

Well, too bad that height didn't translate into some bucks for the man.

After a certain point, the satisifaction of seeing your creation portrayed by Cesar Romero isn't quite as fulfilling as receiving a royalty check.

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 13, 2008

Axler said:
Well, too bad that height didn't translate into some bucks for the man.

After a certain point, the satisifaction of seeing your creation portrayed by Cesar Romero isn't quite as fulfilling as receiving a royalty check.

I wasn't saying he wasn't screwed. I was simply arguing with that one line that he hadn't seen the height of his character's popularity.

Axler · Jan 13, 2008

Shadow_Ferret said:
I wasn't saying he wasn't screwed.

Good.

The treatment of Bill Finger was yet another contribution to the horrible karma the so-called comics industry is still trying to balance.

nighttimer · Jan 18, 2008

Axler said:
Good.

The treatment of Bill Finger was yet another contribution to the horrible karma the so-called comics industry is still trying to balance.

Well said. Anyone who loves comic books has to hate the way so many of its talents were screwed by the publishers.

Jack Kirby will always be known as "The King" but Marvel Comics treated him like a total peasant.

DarkKnightJRK · Jan 29, 2008

Shadow_Ferret said:
"Sadly, Mr. Finger died in 1974 at the age of 60, never seeing the height of Batman's popularity."

I'd argue that he did live to see the height of Batman's popularity -- the 60s. Batman was at his height during the silver age with appearances in numerous titles. With a popular television show. With a popular Saturday Morning Cartoon or two. And a movie.

And I'd argue that he lived to see the diluded Superman clone that his character was forced into becoming after Fredric Wertham and the Comics Code Authority. Batman didn't become serious until the late 70s when Dennis O'Neil and Neil Adams got on the title and he didn't go back to his noir roots until Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns.

:Soapbox:

Seriously, I love me some Adam West, but he sure as hell wasn't the real Batman.

ChimeraCreative · Feb 12, 2008

Even if it's just a wiki list, it's gotta count for something, eh? ^_^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dead_comic_book_characters

And a lot of Marvel mutants were de-powered recently.

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