Occupying a Planet

How did you know I was here? Now I'll have to pack up my cheese doodles and be off.

Do you honestly think anybody here is going to reveal classified information like that? Sheesh!

Zoombie said:

If you were going to invade and occupy a vaguely Earthlike planet, what supplies would you bring and how would you keep the natives down?

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Zoombie said:

If you were going to invade and occupy a vaguely Earthlike planet, what supplies would you bring and how would you keep the natives down?

Click to expand...

We were a peaceful people, listeners to public radio, readers of literary supplements.

Thus they occupied our homeworld-
With tens of millions of boxes with screens all across our defenseless planet.

Ai! Each box had an independent power source, and ten thousand satellite chanels!
Ai! Each box had optional sports and home-shopping bundles and video on demand!
Ai! Each box had a remote, with flatscreen and surround sound!

We lost all muscle tone, hypnotized by digital video recording and picture within picture.
We faded to nothing, captives of young urban sitcoms in which nothing happens at the end of each episode.
We starved to death in our 'bArkalownchahrs, unable to resist.

Ai, have mercy on us!

Now I, legally blind and the last of my people, must chant our death lament.

Aiih, have mercy on us!

You could study what we did in Iraq, and then make sure you do everything differently.

caw

Around a million battle robots should do the trick.

Are the women... attractive?



-Derek

Zoombie said:

If you were going to invade and occupy a vaguely Earthlike planet, what supplies would you bring and how would you keep the natives down?

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What level of technology do the inhabitants have?

I personally liked the typical Roman strategy. Romans would march in, defeat everyone, then say: "Keep your cuture and your religion, just learn our language, pay us taxes and allow us to install roads, a magistrate, and a garrison."

And disease would be a huge concern for both sides of the deal.




In the area of disease, there was one very cool episode of Stargate SG1 in which they found a sparesly populated argicultural planet of very very few humans who had what looked like a 12th century Earth technology. The humans had a symbiotic relationship with a very advanced off-world civilization that would buy their grain in exchange for medically maintaning them and protecting them from disease. The SG1 team assumed this advanced civilzation was friendly and wanted to begin a diplomatic relationship with them. But then the SG1 team discovered that there used to be an early-20th-century level of technology on that same planet just a few centries earlier, and it had been wiped out by some disease. So this advanced civilization came along and kindly imunized everyone on the planet against the disease, but then they (the original citizens of that planet) found out too late that the imunization caused sterility (the diesease was actually deliberately planted by the advanced guys in order to trick the whole planet into wilingly getting immunized). So the advanced civilization successfully tricked those early-20th-century-level humans into depleating their own planet-wide population by over 90%, and then the advacned guys lowered their level of technology by several centuries, and then forced the few humans who remained alive into becoming surfs who plowed the fields and surrendered their grain to their overlords. And when the SG1 team figured all of this out, they realized these advanced guys had similar plans for Earth. So the SG1 team had to flee that planet and also had to close the iris behind them and keep the bad guys from dialing through.

This was a particularly cool episode because there was suddenly a new bad guy/enemy for Earth to worry about in addition to the Goauld. And also, the whole concept of the systematic enslavement of a planet disguised as symbiosis by tricking them via a deliberately planted disease followed up by a sleight-of-hand with the imunization was very very well thought out.

1. What tech level do I possess?
2. What tech level is the earthlike planet?
3. What is the primary objective of the occupation?
4. How many resources can I throw at this?
5. How long will the occupation last?
6. What are my requirements for the planet? Can I drop asteroids or do I need to retain its population and industry?


I think if I had a superior tech I would try to exploit any major religions on the planet, a little staged 'second coming' might make things easier in the long run.

Plot Device said:

What level of technology do the inhabitants have?

I personally liked the typical Roman strategy. Romans would march in, defeat everyone, then say: "Keep your cuture and your religion, just learn our language, pay us taxes and allow us to install roads, a magistrate, and a garrison."

...

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Mostly I agree, but I'll disagree on a point. In Briton, the Romans dismantled the religious structure because it was closely intertwined with the political structure. In fact, many kings/ leaders didn't give up their holdings, instead the Druids (so-called Druids) were singled out and eradicated because of their global hold over the country.

So, on the point of keeping religion and culture, they stamped it out in Briton.

If the religious structure is also political, you have a problem with cultural influence and the war will last at least one to two generations. Same goes for a history of warfare or/coupled with strong belief in land ownership/independence. Terrain can also factor in. Large land masses with difficult terrain and hidey holes cripples fast infiltrations. The better options are propaganda and/or divide and conquer.

Here's my take on it.
First step: assemble a large enough strike force for initial combat losses and strategic outpost garrisons. (and funding) (Alexander the Great)
Second step (while the first step is in progress) begin saturation of propaganda at home so the average citizen views the new planet as "in need of our help" or "threatening to our way of life" (reference the Korean War)
Third step: Strategically place a spy system and system of infiltration on the planet. Your spies should not only be able to access critical areas, but influence minor and limited major players into helping your troops when they arrive. (CIA VietNam, screwed up by misjudging exterior influence and cultural influences)
Fourth step: invasion. Be prepared for above average loss and contingencies such as climate, supply chain disruption, and guerrilla insurgencies. (Claudius Caesar, AD 43)
Fifth step: (in conjunction with fourth step) dismantle/disable communication links. Keep the general populace unaware of the invasion. (Desert Storm)
Sixth step: eradicate central command, dismantle power structure (Romans, British, Germans, Americans, the list goes on...)
Seventh step: install and maintain garrisons and regular troop sweeps to quell rebellion (Agricola)
Eighth step: Utilize spy network and propaganda to subvert the general populace and make them believe you are "helping" them. Allow enough "superior technology" to make their lives easier, but not assist them to obtain WMD's or superior firepower. (Briton, Afganistan, Iraq)
Ninth step: install an interim government of locals that will bend to your "suggestions" (Persia, Asia Minor, Gaul, Egypt, Briton, the West Indies, Hawaii, Israel, Germany, South Korea, Japan....)

Gosh, does any of this sound familiar? (see stuff in parenthesis) It should. It's been modus operandi since Alexander the Great.

Suggested reading (from my personal reading list): The Prince by Machiavelli, Plato's Republic, Peter Berensford Ellis "The Celts", The Britannia and Agricola, and The Art of War

Good list but you missed one thing.
Don't allow any journalists in.

occupations are a messy affair. Depends I suppose if you want to make the occupiers nice. It might be simplier to have take a different tack on the hostage option by having a orbital gun pointed at major cities. Then have small occupational units that control the major sources of water and electricity.

Zoombie said:

Well, in my story, we have FTL, advanced weapons and advanced robotic support and they have WWI era weapons and were having lots of fun slaughtering each other en mass when we showed up.

And, the word occupy usually means you are invading to keep, not just showing up to blow it to smithereens. So asteroid drops are out...nukes would have to be reigned in.

Personally, I'd copy the Romans too. But I'd steal some Imperial German Army tactics: Hostages.

If an inhabitant of the planet injures or kills a solider, the local garrison rounds up 20 or so people and shoots them a day later if the agitator doesn't come forward.

Obviously, this would only be for areas of the planet that have major unrest. For "green" zones, I'd have occupational law. For "red zones" I'd have martial law and hostages.

But be sure to have Space Superiority...means you can drop all manner of deadly things on them. Heck, a pinpoint laser could take out missiles, aircraft...probably sea ships as well, if the beam is strong enough.

Personally, I'd think germs between species, unless the species are REALLY close genetically, is...a bit unlikely. But not so unlikely that measures shouldn't be taken.

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Why do you have to occupy the place? You already have infinite superiority and what could they possibly have that you would want?

This is sort of the puzzle of projecting military power in general: you could probably get what you want a lot more easily just by paying a fair price for it, unless your motive is more or less genocidal or you have enemies you wish to forstall or you need the positions...but if you have FTL and are roving space, its hard to see a planet as a position in a strategic sense.

There is always infiltration, then subversive occupation and puppet governments

What is the point of keeping the populace around?

A big gun.

She_wulf said:

Here's my take on it.
First step: assemble a large enough strike force for initial combat losses and strategic outpost garrisons. (and funding) (Alexander the Great)
Second step (while the first step is in progress) begin saturation of propaganda at home so the average citizen views the new planet as "in need of our help" or "threatening to our way of life" (reference the Korean War)

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I realize there are a lot of assumptions that Sci-Fi makes as a genre that make occupying whole planets of aliens who are more or less human to the point that they are like Celts engaged in WWI level wars seem plausible...but really: aren't assumptions like that even stranger than the "adventures" various humanoids can have while treating each other to the imaginary bad moments of each others imaginary histories? I mean the story is all encoded in the assumptions and I'm sure that's fine for the genre...but isn't it worth wondering about how strange it is to assume that infinitely superior technological groups would operate like nation states at all (for example) and that any kind of conquest and occupation makes any sense at all in that context?

Why would you want to occupy it if they're so far behind you? Aren't there planets with equal resources elsewhere *without* a pesky population?

Seems to me that given the differing levels of tech, whatever your intentions it's going to go a lot like the Europeans in the New World.

Oh, and if the planet itself occupies some strategic position (though why not use it's uninhabited neighbors instead?) then it seems to me, though this will sound cold, you'll be better off eliminating that pesky population from the get-go. Otherwise it's strategic value will be undercut by having to fight the natives.

Who are not going to just peaceably welcome you, so long as their governments haven't previously wiped each other out.

Zoombie said:

If you were going to invade and occupy a vaguely Earthlike planet, what supplies would you bring and how would you keep the natives down?

Click to expand...

I would do it from space. Aside from that, it would depend on the tech-level of the inhabitants.

MargueriteMing said:

What is the point of keeping the populace around?

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Politics. Even though I WANT to glass the planet, it'd be a PR nightmare that might cost my rank.

Reasons to occupy a planet, in force-- (feel free to use these, poke holes in them, or expand on them.)

The planet has an essential resource.

The planet has an atmosphere that your race can exist in naturally, and would make an excellent supply depot along the way to some other, distant point.

The planet is connected to a distant, required point by way of a complicated gate system, and you do not have Light Speed, Warp, Quasi-Space, or anything-else travel.

The planet used to be yours and someone else invaded.

The Planet actually orbits two solar systems, and every second century, when that planet is in the same solar system as yours, the inhabitants take pot-shots at you.

There is no FLS travel, the planets are very close together, inhabitable worlds are rare, the tech level of both places are about the same, and you've got serious population control issues.

Religion. It can be an excuse for anything.

The inhabitants of the planet keep attacking your trade routes // cities.

If I were doing it, I'd give them all the plague first. A few blankets fresh off the corpses of smallpox victims ought to do the job nicely. Then I'd get them all hooked on sugar and alcohol...just to really dork with their metabolisms.

Then I'd tell them they needed to live on special...ehm...community farms. And their children would need to go to special schools to learn to be good citizens of the Intergalactic Republic (and conveniently, they'd never learn about their own history or culture there). I'd rename all their kids in English, cut their hair and make them dress like earthlings. Whenever they tell me things about their own culture, I'd say stuff like, "Oh, you really think that? How...quaint." All while flying around in my badass spaceship, making all the kids want to be just like me and my Soldiers.

That's what I'd do.

Executing whole towns because one dude attacked me? Nope. We tried that in Iraq and it hasn't been working so well for us. Now, setting up "concerned local citizens" groups and paying the sheiks whenever their folks turn in bad guys and weapons? That's been working like brilliant blue blazes. So that's what I would do. Make all their freedom fighters into terrorists and insurgents, and pay big money to anyone who turned one in.

That's what I'd do, if I were an evil overlord...

Personally, what I would do to a planet of our technological level would be to move a fairly large, but not planet killing, asteroid into a collision course, and using my super math skills make sure it hit someplace really useful, like the middle east and wipe out most of our oil supply.

Then wait a bit and see how the world goes to hell without free energy, fake a first contact and offer cold fusion tech or some other form of free energy, but retain control of the manufacturing and distribution of power. Once Earth is reliant on this new tech you put the world into blackout for a few days as you negotiate a peace settlement, set up a Vichy style government on Earth, and rule the whole thing cheaply without shedding any of your own blood.

Get them addicted to something. The sci fi equivalent of opium, perhaps. Something that isn't natural to their world and needs to be shipped in, and since they have no ships, they need you around so they can obtain it. Hang that over their heads and they will start cooperating.

Granted, it won't nail the entire population, but if you can addict some high-ranking officials, they'll be able to exert their influence on others.