Need help with this paragraph

Ape Gone Insane · Jan 1, 2008

Hey guys, I was wondering if you could help me with the good (if there is any) and bad bits about this paragraph. What needs improving.

The pale sky brightened momentarily as the blazing sun passed from beneath the clouds into a patch of clear sky. The light filtered in through the tree branches and the grass seemed to shine, rich in colour. The refreshing sound of rushing water could be heard from the stream beneath the trees. Part of the stream was shaded by the towering trees while the other parts glistened from the rays of streamed light.

Thanks

dpaterso · Jan 1, 2008

Well, if we're being picky... I think it's needlessly overdetailed, as if you're examining different parts of a landscape painting instead of getting down to where the weather report matters: your POV character. Who's lying on their back looking up at the sky and seeing this? And hearing the "refreshing sound" of rushing stream water? To me it's a bunch of words with no context, which is what's wrong with it (I use the word "wrong" loosely).

Feel free to discuss, argue, or ignore. Welcome to the board!

-Derek

Ape Gone Insane · Jan 1, 2008

dpaterso said:
Well, if we're being picky... I think it's needlessly overdetailed, as if you're examining different parts of a landscape painting instead of getting down to where the weather report matters: your POV character. Who's lying on their back looking up at the sky and seeing this? And hearing the "refreshing sound" of rushing stream water? To me it's a bunch of words with no context, which is what's wrong with it (I use the word "wrong" loosely).

Feel free to discuss, argue, or ignore. Welcome to the board!

-Derek

Its the opening paragraph to the first chapter. So I haven't introduced any characters yet.

Bufty · Jan 1, 2008

Hi Titan.

The paragraph is maybe okay for school work, but not good beyond that.

I suspect you need to slow down and think more about what you are writing. Don't try to be arty-farty by writing what you think would be written by a writer.

Just imagine the scene and write it in simple English, remembering that Clarity is King and Simplicity is the easiest route to clarity.

Now let's have a closer peek at what you have written and you try and get in the habit of being as critical as this.

Finally, welcome, and keep having fun learning the craft of writing. :Hug2:

Titan King said:
[The pale sky brightened momentarily as the blazing sun passed from beneath the clouds into a patch of clear sky. This is not clear. The sun cannot pass from beneath clouds - the sun is millions of miles above - and hidden by - clouds. The light filtered [in through the tree branches Why do you say 'in' through branches, and not 'down'. And where am I -the reader - supposed to be? and the grass seemed to shine, rich in colour This is vague. Try and avoid 'seemed' - either the grass shone or it didn't. The refreshing sound of rushing water could be heard from the stream beneath the trees. Could be heard by whom? Why is the sound refreshing? Why say the stream is 'beneath' the trees? You don't need to say the sound of rushing water came 'from the stream'. Where else would it come from? Part of the stream was shaded by the towering trees while the other parts glistened from the rays of streamed light. This last sentence is far too arty-farty -it means nothing to me. And watch that you use adjectives only when they are needed. Why 'towering' trees? Do I have any reason to believe they are 'small trees?What is 'streamed' light?

Sorry if this seems tough, Titan, but you must learn to write with clarity above all.

If this is an opening paragraph to a story, then I expect to discover three things very quickly.

Where I am, what's happening and in whose head I am supposed to be. This means you have to know what POV you are using, and you have to give me sufficient detail in clear terms so that I can build up a picture of whatever it is that you are picturing as you write.

This paragraph is only giving me a wordy description of a vague setting. You need a character, through whose eyes and senses I can discover where I am. At present this is all words that mean nothing.

Think about how the books you have read opened.

Any help?

Angelinity · Jan 1, 2008

titan king,

relax.

do not rush the words. sit in your own scene and feel it. taste it.

feel and taste it.

can you taste it?

now write.

Ape Gone Insane · Jan 1, 2008

Angelinity said:
titan king,

relax.

do not rush the words. sit in your own scene and feel it. taste it.

feel and taste it.

can you taste it?

now write.

Right I done what you said, and thought I would do something entirely different, this is the middle of the story of a modern book. I came up with this by relaxing.

[FONT=&quot]Far below the tower Sam continued down the narrow pathway. The light deterred slowly into the dark and murky passageways. Slime slunk and sloped down the round walls and the water splashed under his boots. The ground under his feet went squelch. He toppled forward and landed tripping over his shoes, face first in the shallow water. He groaned and spat out a mouthful of water. He stood up stumbling and determined to go on. With every step he took pain seared up from his wound and started screaming through his body. His nerve system was searing with pain but Sam ignored it and continued on through the darkness. If only I could find a way out, he thought to himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] As if answer to his mental distress call, a light flickered on ahead of him illuminating and bordering a round metal door clearly. It stayed on for a few moments then died out again but this was enough for Sam he hurried on forwards towards the diminished source. He felt the cold hard touch of steel and the pattern of thick metal upon the door. His hands searched for where the doorknob would be but to no avail. All he found was a smooth steel surface where the handle should have been. He gave a cry of despair and pounded on the door with all his strength.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The door swung inwards throwing Sam in and a powerful arm grabbed his arm and pulled him in. Sam heard the deep metallic bang and series of locks as the door sealed again. Sam stared up at the dim light above him while his body lay panting unable and too weak to move. Gambit looked over at him blocking out the light, his face was hard and calculating. Sam choked and slowly propelled himself near a leather armchair

[/FONT]

Bufty · Jan 1, 2008

No, it's not a good idea - unless you can convey it clearly and briefly through a character's eyes.

But what you say first - your opening idea- is a good idea. Get straight to the point. Visualise the scene. Now write it. And don't bother with painting an 'elaborate and beautiful scene' -I am more interested in what's happening to whom.

George dipped the whetstone in the stream yet again, then carried on rubbing the blade of his master's sword. The mid-day sun shone through the branches and glinted on the metal. George wiped his sleeve across his brow - this was hard work. Would the blade ever get sharp?

That's my picture -not yours - but you get the idea? I know where I am and what's happening, and in whose head I am supposed to be. And a whetstone doesn't polish -it sharpens -no?

Titan King said:
Yes, I see thanks and to the guy before. I'm trying to open the chapter with boy/man polishing his sword using a whetstone near the stream. And I thought moving from the sun to the branches and their relation to the stream would be a good idea.

Thanks.

And that last post of yours (No 7) is not a good idea either. I suggest you delete it, or this thread is destined to become a confusing train-wreck! Hit Edit at the bottom right, then 'delete'.

Marian Perera · Jan 1, 2008

Titan King said:
I'm trying to open the chapter with boy/man polishing his sword using a whetstone near the stream. And I thought moving from the sun to the branches and their relation to the stream would be a good idea.

Here's the Queen of Swords scale of chapter starts.

Starting your first chapter with a description of the scene or the weather... meh.*

Starting your first chapter with a character... okay.

Starting your first chapter with a character in trouble or danger... good.

*There are exceptions to every rule, and Watership Down is the exception to this one. But in general, starting with description isn't the best way to begin.

Ape Gone Insane · Jan 1, 2008

Bufty said:
No, it's not a good idea - unless you can convey it clearly and briefly through a character's eyes.

But what you say first - your opening idea- is a good idea. Get straight to the point. Visualise the scene. Now write it. And don't bother with painting an 'elaborate and beautiful scene' -I am more interested in what's happening to whom.

That's my picture -not yours - but you get the idea? I know where I am and what's happening, and in whose head I am supposed to be. And a whetstone doesn't polish -it sharpens -no?

And that last post of yours (No 7) is not a good idea either. I suggest you delete it, or this thread is destined to become a confusing train-wreck! Hit Edit at the bottom right, then 'delete'.

Thats a great paragraph, it's just I thought starting straight off with the characters name as the first word was a bit amateur, well I was wrong.

You see I have the perfect story (or so I think and believe), it's great, I've been perfecting it for years yet I don't know if I have what it takes to translate that to paper. Or to make every paragraph as exciting and rich as possible.

Marian Perera · Jan 1, 2008

Titan King said:
Thats a great paragraph, it's just I thought starting straight off with the characters name as the first word was a bit amateur, well I was wrong.

Indeed. My favorite novel starts with, "Scarlett O'Hara was not beautiful" and it seems to have done fairly well.

You see I have the perfect story (or so I think and believe), it's great, I've been perfecting it for years yet I don't think I have what it takes to translate that to paper.

Write it down. That's the first step. Maybe your first effort will be terrible. Mine certainly was. But if I hadn't kept writing, and editing, and writing, and learning, and writing, and discarding, and writing some more, I would never have gotten to this point.

Bufty · Jan 1, 2008

Oh, Titan.

Everybody thinks they have the perfect story . You may well have one, but to write that story so that folk wish to read it requires that you master the craft of writing. Not the 'art' of writing - that is what one is supposed to learn at school - but the craft of writing.

The craft is the ability to write words on paper in such a way that folk want to read the second sentence, then the second paragraph, then the second page and so on for page after page and thousands and thousands of words.

It's not easy and it can take years to master.

But it can be fun. And it should be fun. Check out the other Forums here and keep reading books you like in order to see how your favourite authors express ideas in a manner which makes you want to read on.

The 'Learning to write with Uncle Jim' Thread in the Writing Novels Forum is also a good thread to work through - it's long but you will learn from it.

Have fun. :Hug2:

Titan King said:
Thats a great paragraph, it's just I thought starting straight off with the characters name as the first word was a bit amateur, well I was wrong.

You see I have the perfect story (or so I think and believe), it's great, I've been perfecting it for years yet I don't think I have what it takes to translate that to paper.

Ape Gone Insane · Jan 1, 2008

Queen of Swords said:
Indeed. My favorite novel starts with, "Scarlett O'Hara was not beautiful" and it seems to have done fairly well.

Write it down. That's the first step. Maybe your first effort will be terrible. Mine certainly was. But if I hadn't kept writing, and editing, and writing, and learning, and writing, and discarding, and writing some more, I would never have gotten to this point.

What bufty wrote was absolutely fantastic, thats the kind of quality I want from writing.

Bufty · Jan 1, 2008

Well, how kind of you to say so, but I wouldn't go that far, my dear.

[Bufty places hand on brow, then hurriedly exits stage left before Titan changes her mind.]

Titan King said:
What bufty wrote was absolutely fantastic, thats the kind of quality I want from writing.

Ape Gone Insane · Jan 1, 2008

Bufty said:
Oh, Titan.

Everybody thinks they have the perfect story . You may well have one, but to write that story so that folk wish to read it requires that you master the craft of writing. Not the 'art' of writing - that is what one is supposed to learn at school - but the craft of writing.

The craft is the ability to write words on paper in such a way that folk want to read the second sentence, then the second paragraph, then the second page and so on for page after page and thousands and thousands of words.

It's not easy and it can take years to master.

But it can be fun. And it should be fun. Check out the other Forums here and keep reading books you like in order to see how your favourite authors express ideas in a manner which makes you want to read on.

The 'Learning to write with Uncle Jim' Thread in the Writing Novels Forum is also a good thread to work through - it's long but you will learn from it.

Have fun.

I do plenty of reading, around a book in two days or even one day, I always go for big books (300 pages or more) never anything less than that and love trilogies or more. I've pretty much exhausted the children's, teenagers book sections in all libraries and now read plenty of adult books, but one trilogy I've loved most is The Black Magician Trilogy but I don't know if anyone here's read it, thats the kind of style I want in my book.

Bufty · Jan 1, 2008

Careful, Titan -there's an awful lot of books out there. And 'reading' or skimming is not the same as studying for technique.

Titan King said:
I do plenty of reading, around a book in two days or even one day, I always go for big books (300 pages or more) never anything less than that and love trilogies or more. I've pretty much exhausted the children's, teenagers book sections in all libraries and now read plenty of adult books, but one trilogy I've loved most is The Black Magician Trilogy but I don't know if anyone here's read it, thats the kind of style I want in my book.

Ape Gone Insane · Jan 1, 2008

Bufty said:
Careful, Titan -there's an awful lot of books out there. And 'reading' or skimming is not the same as studying for technique.

Yeh but what I'm getting at is - it's a start.

Has anybody read Trudi Canavan's books - The Black Magician Trilogy.

And I mean what I said, that paragraph is what I would aim to achieve, it truly is fantastic.

Bufty · Jan 1, 2008

True, but only if you can put what you learn into effect in what you write.

And from all the books you have read, you seem to have deduced it was a good idea to open with a wordy scene description, and that it was amateurish to open with a character's name. Hmmm.

Titan King said:
Yeh but what I'm getting at is - it's a start.

...

Ape Gone Insane · Jan 1, 2008

Bufty said:
True, but only if you can put what you learn into effect in what you write.

And from all the books you have read, you seem to have deduced it was a good idea to open with a wordy scene description, and that it was amateurish to open with a character's name. Hmmm.

Yeh pretty much. Take Eragon for example.

Wind howled through the night.

Marian Perera · Jan 1, 2008

Titan King said:
Yeh pretty much. Take Eragon for example.

Eragon is not an example I'd point to for beginning writers, for reasons which I won't go into lest they derail this thread*. Check out The Golden Compass or Ender's Game for better examples of how to start.

*And even Eragon begins with the idea that something is happening to change the world, rather than starting with a paragraph of peaceful, idyllic description.

Ape Gone Insane · Jan 1, 2008

Queen of Swords said:
Eragon is not an example I'd point to for beginning writers, for reasons which I won't go into lest they derail this thread. Check out The Golden Compass or Ender's Game for far better examples of how to start.

Is it because the author was home schooled or he was 15 when he started writing or his mother/father was a editor.

Anyways, I know what you mean by Northern Lights (Golden Compass) and looking at bufty's paragraphy, I completely agree with you guys and that's how I will do it.

Thank you for the corrections, they were a great help.

Marian Perera · Jan 1, 2008

Titan King said:
Is it because the author was home schooled or he was 15 when he started writing or his mother/father was a editor.

The reason I wouldn't recommend the book Eragon is because it has some serious flaws. Who a person's parents are or when they started writing isn't nearly as relevant as the quality of their (published) output.

Good luck with your writing!

BlueLucario · Jan 1, 2008

Titan King said:
Hey guys, I was wondering if you could help me with the good (if there is any) and bad bits about this paragraph. What needs improving.

The pale sky brightened momentarily as the blazing sun passed from beneath the clouds into a patch of clear sky. The light filtered in through the tree branches and the grass seemed to shine, rich in colour. The refreshing sound of rushing water could be heard from the stream beneath the trees. Part of the stream was shaded by the towering trees while the other parts glistened from the rays of streamed light.

Thanks

Is this in the right thread? You were a bit overdescriptive, don't put so much emphasis one little thing that doesn't contribute to the story itself, for example the sunlight.

Ape Gone Insane · Jan 1, 2008

Queen of Swords said:
The reason I wouldn't recommend the book Eragon is because it has some serious flaws. Who a person's parents are or when they started writing isn't nearly as relevant as the quality of their (published) output.

Good luck with your writing!

Haha I think I know what you mean, it's basically, at the very core, a revamped star wars.

Lets see:

Galbatorix turned against the riders (oh wait so did dark sidious ages ago), Galbatorix turned Morzan against the riders to the evil side (Dark sidious turned anakin again the jedis). Morzan is eragons evil father (Darth vader is lukes evil father).

Eragon is a farm boy. (Luke is a farm boy or something similar). Eragons uncle is killed (lukes uncle is killed, I think). Eragon meets a old man called Brom who teachs him how to use the sword (Luke meets a old man and then the old man, Obiwan teaches Luke how to use a lightsabre). Brom teachers eragon something secret called Magic (Obiwan teaches luke the Force). Brom is killed while defending eragon (obiwan is killed while defending luke). Eragon rescues a princess (luke rescues a princess). Eragon goes into a secret place to meet the last rider to learn more of the WAY. (luke goes to a secret palce to meet yoda to learn more of the FORCE)

Yeh, I see the similarities if thats what you mean.

small axe · Jan 2, 2008

Titan King said:
Hey guys, I was wondering if you could help me with the good (if there is any) and bad bits about this paragraph. What needs improving.

The pale sky brightened momentarily as the blazing sun passed from beneath the clouds into a patch of clear sky. The light filtered in through the tree branches and the grass seemed to shine, rich in colour. The refreshing sound of rushing water could be heard from the stream beneath the trees. Part of the stream was shaded by the towering trees while the other parts glistened from the rays of streamed light.
Thanks

I think you use the word "the" too much.

The pale sky brightened momentarily as the blazing sun passed from beneath the clouds into a patch of clear sky. The light filtered in through the tree branches and the grass seemed to shine, rich in colour. The refreshing sound of rushing water could be heard from the stream beneath the trees. Part of the stream was shaded by the towering trees while the other parts glistened from the rays of streamed light.

That's me being succinct but sincere.

You could lose half of the the's and it would read far smoother and without the clunking rhythm of too many the's ... Go ahead, read it without so many the's, see what you think.

Bufty is right about the Sun being above the clouds (unless you're talking about clouds of dust out in the galaxy)

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