demonic possession for Muslims and Jews?

GeorgeK

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I'm versed in Christian theology regarding the topic but what are Muslims' (mainstream) and Jews' (orthodox, not secular) teachings? The Torah and Koran have a few verses, but not a "text" on the topic.

Do the demons "reside" in "Hell"?

When they are exorcised, where do they go?

How are they exorcised? (presumably in the name of Yaweh / Allah and some sort of ritual and prayers, but are there special ingredients or time of day/year etc?)
 

mommyjo2

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I'm versed in Christian theology regarding the topic

I'm just guessing here, but I think you mean you are versed in Evangelical theology regarding the topic (as opposed to Catholic/Orthodox. They are very different. No, watching The Exorcist doesn't count!)

This article might help get you started on research:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04713a.htm

Today's Iran is yesterday's Persia, BTW.

You also may want to read the book of Tobit, a deuterocanonical book that has been stripped from the Protestant bibles but still is in the Catholic bibles. There is an account of demon obsession/possession there (this is an Old Testament book). Tobit was part of the Septuagint, the Greek Scriptures of the Jews prior to 70 AD.
You can find it here (or in any Catholic bible):
http://www.newadvent.org/bible/tob000.htm

In the book of Tobit, keep in mind that Raphael is an archangel (like Michael).

HTH! I'm a Catholic writing a demon movie myself... I can help with OT demonology but can't help too much on the Muslim side/modern Jewish thought.
 

HeronW

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In Jewish lore, the Seal of Solomon and spells by him can slow, stop, control a demon.
 

L M Ashton

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I asked Fahim, who is Muslim, and his response is this, although I've paraphrased.

He starts by saying that demon is a European construct/concept.

In Hindu mythology, there are suras and asuras. Suras are gods, and asuras are not gods, and the two battle each other.

In Middle Eastern mythology, there are djinns, but djinns can be either good or evil.

Islam & the Qu'ran talks about djinns, and there are Muslim people who believe in possession by djinn, although this is not necessarily a Muslim stance, and there is no standard Muslim stance - Muslims absorb cultural beliefs of places/cultures where they live just like everyone else. But one question Fahim brings up is whether you're talking about demons in the Christianic sense, ie Satan's minions, or are you talking about demons in terms of mischievious creatures. From my reading of your question, it sounds to me like you're talking about Satan's minions.

Fahim goes on to say that, according to Islam, Satan does not rule hell. Hell is controlled by an angel - both heaven and hell are under God's control. Satan does not have a host of demons that go around trying to corrupt souls. But then, the concept of heaven and hell is about God meting out justice and God putting souls where they belong, not Satan winning any souls.

Some Muslims do believe in possession by djinn, and if you consider djinns to be demons, then yes, but that depends on your interpretation of a demon vs. a djinn.
 

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GeorgeK

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I'm just guessing here, but I think you mean you are versed in Evangelical theology regarding the topic (as opposed to Catholic/Orthodox. They are very different. No, watching The Exorcist doesn't count!)

This article might help get you started on research:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04713a.htm

Sorry but wrong guess. Once upon a time I was a Grand Knight in the Dominican Order (as in Saint Dominic, not the Dominican Republic). It was a step below Deacon at the time. I don't think they have such designations anymore. Our Bible was the Douay-Rheims (pre-Vatican 2) not New Advent which is often quoted by Roman Catholics (post-Vatican 2 with a slightly different slant), but I will look up the Book of Tobit, so Thanks

Today's Iran is yesterday's Persia, BTW.

You also may want to read the book of Tobit, a deuterocanonical book that has been stripped from the Protestant bibles but still is in the Catholic bibles. There is an account of demon obsession/possession there (this is an Old Testament book). Tobit was part of the Septuagint, the Greek Scriptures of the Jews prior to 70 AD.
You can find it here (or in any Catholic bible):
http://www.newadvent.org/bible/tob000.htm

In the book of Tobit, keep in mind that Raphael is an archangel (like Michael).

HTH! I'm a Catholic writing a demon movie myself... I can help with OT demonology but can't help too much on the Muslim side/modern Jewish thought.

OT would be the Jewish/Muslim point of view that I'm looking for since my story involves a demon in about 3000 BC.
 
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GeorgeK

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In Jewish lore, the Seal of Solomon and spells by him can slow, stop, control a demon.

Is that the same as the ring of Solomon or a reference to the possible inscription on the ring, or something totally different?

BTW Thanks all for the links. A few of them are ones I hadn't already seen. I'll check them.
 

L M Ashton

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OT would be the Jewish/Muslim point of view that I'm looking for since my story involves a demon in about 3000 BC.

While Muslims believe in the Old Testament, they believe that there are many inaccuracies in translations, so hold that the Qu'ran is the better scripture to depend upon.

The birth of Islam happened in the 7th century AD. Islam did not exist in 3000 BC, therefore there would be no Muslim point of view in that time period.

I don't know if you're talking about something that happened in 3000 BC from a more current perspective, in which case the above comment wouldn't apply. It's difficult to tell from the context.
 

GeorgeK

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What I'm trying to compile is a theologically reasonable (I know accurate or authentic is out of the question) exorcism performed in 3000 BC, for a fantasy work. I figured if I understood the big 3 then I could sort of use the common elements.
 

Smiling Ted

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What I'm trying to compile is a theologically reasonable (I know accurate or authentic is out of the question) exorcism performed in 3000 BC, for a fantasy work. I figured if I understood the big 3 then I could sort of use the common elements.

You won't find much on possession or spirits or demons in the sections of the Scriptures that deal with Jews before King David; and most of the Jewish folklore about them is considered of little religious value by most rabbis. (It was often tales that were absorbed from surrounding cultures.)

For something as far back as 3000 BCE, you might be better off abandoning Jewish and Islamic sources and researching Egyptian and Mesopotamian archaeology and anthropology.
 

Mac H.

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What I'm trying to compile is a theologically reasonable (I know accurate or authentic is out of the question) exorcism performed in 3000 BC, for a fantasy work. I figured if I understood the big 3 then I could sort of use the common elements.
I'm not recalling any examples of possession in ancient mythologies.

The closest would be perhaps the old testament 'evil spirit from God' who troubled Saul ... although even that vague reference is about 2000 years AFTER the period you are using.

Why transplant a modern mythology (demon possession) into those ancient times - why not use something from those times? If you are looking for a demon, you could use any of the Elohim characters, or perhaps Azazel.

Actually, thinking of Azazel - there is something that may be a little akin to 'demon possession'. A ritual at the time involved putting the sins of the people into a goat, and then either letting the goat escape (the 'scape goat') or hurling the goat off a mountain to die horribly.

That 'transferring evil to an animal' may be an analog ... so you may be able to follow the ritual of Azazel to transfer the 'demon' into the goat.

The ritual involved a scarlet thread, half of which was tied to the goat's horn. Then when the goat is chucked off the mountain, the evil could die with the goat.

Another thought is that it seems a common aspect of the mythologies at the time was giving burnt offerings to the tribal gods ... it seemed to be the cure for every sickness, as well as general rites to purify yourself after normal bodily functions! I suspect that any 'cure' from that era would definitely involve a burnt offering ...

A good reference is probably Frazer's 'The Golden Bough' .

Good luck,

Mac